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-   -   horrifying attack on Jussie Smollett (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=334527)

Whip 30th January 2019 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baron (Post 12583169)
Well, that and the idea that two white racists would walk around wearing ski masks, carrying bleach and a noose, in the streets of a big city, without being seen by another living soul, just in case they bumped into a famous black man.

It's got everything but a burning cross.

Quote:

Contrary to widespread reports that the alleged attackers were white, Smollett has not identified the attackers by race because the men were masked and wore gloves, according to police.
http://www.cwbchicago.com/2019/01/up...-turn-off.html

William Parcher 30th January 2019 09:32 AM

Photos here showing the location of the claimed attack and also some selfies taken earlier in the evening. It could be debated whether his face was already "swollen" when he was on the plane.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-week-ago.html

baron 30th January 2019 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whip (Post 12583291)

OK, I'll revise that.

Well, that and the idea that two racists (who might have been black or white or a 50/50 combo) would walk around wearing ski masks and gloves, carrying bleach and a length of clothes line, in the streets of a big city, without being seen by another living soul, just in case they bumped into a famous black man.

It's got everything but a burning cross.

The Big Dog 30th January 2019 09:40 AM

No one will ever be arrested.

Chicago takes a major black eye

Oh well

William Parcher 30th January 2019 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baron (Post 12583303)
would walk around wearing ski masks and gloves

I will say that wearing ski masks and gloves in 5 degree Fahrenheit temperature is intelligent and exactly what your mother would have told you to do.

baron 30th January 2019 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William Parcher (Post 12583311)
I will say that wearing ski masks and gloves in 5 degree Fahrenheit temperature is intelligent and exactly what your mother would have told you to do.

Gloves, maybe. Ski masks? Is that a thing in the US (when people aren't skiing?)

JoeMorgue 30th January 2019 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baron (Post 12583325)
Gloves, maybe. Ski masks? Is that a thing in the US (when people aren't skiing?)

Do people not cover their face in -50 wind chill where you live?

Right now Chicago is under a "Near instant frostbite on exposed skin" warning. I doubt it was balmy a couple of nights ago.

William Parcher 30th January 2019 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baron (Post 12583325)
Gloves, maybe. Ski masks? Is that a thing in the US (when people aren't skiing?)

It's not common but it can be seen. They are brilliant protection from bitter cold. The big danger is exposed skin. The ultimate would be ski mask and goggles.

theprestige 30th January 2019 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William Parcher (Post 12583311)
I will say that wearing ski masks and gloves in 5 degree Fahrenheit temperature is intelligent and exactly what your mother would have told you to do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 12583328)
Do people not cover their face in -50 wind chill where you live?

Right now Chicago is under a "Near instant frostbite on exposed skin" warning. I doubt it was balmy a couple of nights ago.

How did the attackers recognize Smollett, if he was wearing his ski mask (as we reasonably assume everyone does, in such weather)?

Matthew Best 30th January 2019 10:19 AM

How do we know they recognised him? Did he claim that they did?

baron 30th January 2019 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Best (Post 12583351)
How do we know they recognised him? Did he claim that they did?

Apparently they said, "Aren't you that faggot 'Empire' ******?" artfully combining a homophobic slur with a racist one, just to make their intentions clear.

Matthew Best 30th January 2019 10:25 AM

I can't tell if you're serious or joking.

Dave Rogers 30th January 2019 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Best (Post 12583351)
How do we know they recognised him? Did he claim that they did?

It was in the original article that he claimed they did. I'm not quite sure how we got from "wearing ski masks and gloves in 5 degree Fahrenheit temperature is intelligent " to "we reasonably assume everyone does, in such weather;" it seems a classic example of the hasty generalisation to assume that, because it's not unusual for people to do something, therefore it's inconceivable for them not to do it.

Dave

Matthew Best 30th January 2019 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers (Post 12583362)
It was in the original article that he claimed they did.

OK, I see that now.

I guess, to be completely accurate, we'd have to say that TMZ claimed that "sources close to" Smollett said that that's what he said.

baron 30th January 2019 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Best (Post 12583361)
I can't tell if you're serious or joking.

I imagine that's what the cops said too.

Matthew Best 30th January 2019 10:50 AM

But only if they heard that, which there's no evidence they did.

All we have is a claim by TMZ that some unnamed other person said that Smollett said that to them, whoever they are, which is pretty weak in itself, but there's no claim that he said that to the police as far as I can see.

I think we can add this story to the "wait and see" pile. I'll pop back in a day or two and see if anything has come of it.

I imagine by then there'll be at least three or four more pages of posts to work my way through.

William Parcher 30th January 2019 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12583339)
How did the attackers recognize Smollett, if he was wearing his ski mask (as we reasonably assume everyone does, in such weather)?

I don't think Smollett was wearing a ski mask.


Quote:

as we reasonably assume everyone does, in such weather
Why would you say that, and especially after I said that they are not common?

Whip 30th January 2019 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12583339)
How did the attackers recognize Smollett, if he was wearing his ski mask (as we reasonably assume everyone does, in such weather)?

wow that's a stretch.

theprestige 30th January 2019 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Best (Post 12583368)
OK, I see that now.

I guess, to be completely accurate, we'd have to say that TMZ claimed that "sources close to" Smollett said that that's what he said.

As far as I can tell, the most accurate version of the narrative right now is something like:

Smollett shows up at an acquaintance's home in the wee hours. He tells a story of a violent assault he just suffered. Smollett's acquaintance calls the police on his behalf. The police arrive, and Smollett asks them to turn off their body cameras. He also gives them a version (the same version?) of the assault story he'd given his acquaintance. Security camera footage from the area Smollett gives in his story show Smollett, but not the assault nor the assailants. There are several versions of Smollet's story. Some versions include the "MAGA country" line. Others do not. There was also perhaps a rope or noose or something. And maybe some bleach.

Whip 30th January 2019 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baron (Post 12583371)
I imagine that's what the cops said too.

I see what you did there.

theprestige 30th January 2019 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whip (Post 12583423)
wow that's a stretch.

"That's my secret, Cap - I'm *always* stretching."

- The International Skeptics Forum, probably

kellyb 30th January 2019 11:28 AM

They could have been stalking himm been parked in a car close by, and/or had ski masks in their pockets.

This is CBS:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jussie-...olice-arrived/

Quote:

When police got to his apartment, they said a noose was still around Smollett's neck. He told them he was also doused with an unknown chemical and officers said they smelled bleach on his clothes.
It's all weird no matter how you dice it. I'll wait and see. I see no huge reason to not give dude the benefit of the doubt for now.

TragicMonkey 30th January 2019 11:39 AM

The only real question left is were they really ski masks, or were Jared and Ivanka wearing their KKK hoods?

casebro 30th January 2019 11:48 AM

If two ******** were out to gety somebody, and planed it to the point of carrying a rope and bleach, I doubt they would stop at a splash and draping a noose on him. Kick, boot. stomp, not just a bruised face and rib.

My guess: Fight with a partner, or a fall down the stairs, or the scooter, friend comes to pick him up, the two cook up the rest of the story on the way to the hospital. "Hey, didn't you get a letter last week? I think I have some rope and a bottle of washer fluid in the trunk...."

Potential for more evidence: Phone records? More rope in car trunk?
Edited by kmortis:  Removed to comply with Rule 10

Joe Random 30th January 2019 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey (Post 12583467)
The only real question left is were they really ski masks, or were Jared and Ivanka wearing their KKK hoods?


If the masked assailants turn out to be Tawana Brawley and Emma Sulkowicz this will be the greatest news story ever.

Mumbles 30th January 2019 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 12583046)
Which according to some people on this board is literally every crime against black people ever.

And really this whole "Oh black people... don't you be lying now I might not believe you in the future" would come across as a lot more genuine if there was a chance the usual suspects are ever going to believe a report of a white on black crime isn't just race baiting by those uppity colored folks.

And let's be honest, if there were a white person found, they'd just tell us about how the hulking brutethug must have tried to fling the poor white guys around like Hulk did to Loki, and how the poor white guy just had to defend themselves even though they're nonviolent blahblahblah...

As I said, CPD is hardly the best in the country, but they seem to be looking into things, while we have little in the way of real info. but in the meantime, I'll take a side, and say I hope they catch the attackers and punish them to the full extent of the law.

applecorped 30th January 2019 12:26 PM

Ski masks are now racist

The Big Dog 30th January 2019 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mumbles (Post 12583526)
And let's be honest, if there were a white person found, they'd just tell us about how the hulking brutethug must have tried to fling the poor white guys around like Hulk did to Loki, and how the poor white guy just had to defend themselves even though they're nonviolent blahblahblah...

As I said, CPD is hardly the best in the country, but they seem to be looking into things, while we have little in the way of real info. but in the meantime, I'll take a side, and say I hope they catch the attackers and punish them to the full extent of the law.

If it was a white guy we would not have heard **** about it, because white people get mugged all the time in that area, and it does not crack the daily briefs section of the major papers around here, let alone the nationwide hysteria.

Bet you did not hear about these future community organizers stomping women about 4 blocks from our hero, now did you?

Just an old fashioned mugging

applecorped 30th January 2019 12:32 PM

So did anybody check the sidewalk where the supposedly happened to see if there was bleach residue?

baron 30th January 2019 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by applecorped (Post 12583555)
So did anybody check the sidewalk where the supposedly happened to see if there was bleach residue?

Let's hope so, with twelve detectives plus beat cops assigned to the case, and several hundred hours of work already put in.

MikeG 30th January 2019 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casebro (Post 12583481)
If two ******** were out to gety somebody, and planed it to the point of carrying a rope and bleach, I doubt they would stop at a splash and draping a noose on him. Kick, boot. stomp, not just a bruised face and rib.

My guess: Fight with a partner, or a fall down the stairs, or the scooter, friend comes to pick him up, the two cook up the rest of the story on the way to the hospital. "Hey, didn't you get a letter last week? I think I have some rope and a bottle of washer fluid in the trunk...."

Potential for more evidence: Phone records? More rope in car trunk?
Edited by kmortis:  Removed to comply with Rule 10

Jesus H.......absolutely not a single shred of anything whatsoever to support your little makey uppie scenario. What is it with some people that makes it impossible to accept that someone might be telling the truth, particularly when that person has no motive to make the story up, and has an awful lot to lose if his charade were to be uncovered? This is supposed to be a forum for sceptics. Well apply a bit of scepticism and analysis to what you are actually suggesting. You and others should be posting this crap in the Conspicracy sub forum, not here........and to absolutely clear, your argument is akin to that of "truthers".

baron 30th January 2019 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeG (Post 12583575)
Jesus H.......absolutely not a single shred of anything whatsoever to support your little makey uppie scenario. What is it with some people that makes it impossible to accept that someone might be telling the truth, particularly when that person has no motive to make the story up...

What were you saying about assumptions..?

William Parcher 30th January 2019 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeG (Post 12583001)
Why on earth would a successful person involve himself in something like this as a deliberate fraud? Does your "sniff test" not work the other way too? Mine does, and the idea that someone would risk ruining their career with a stunt like this fails to pass my sniff test. Unless, of course, you've got some evidence.

We know of successful and also famous people with much to lose who have made colossal errors in judgement.

Enron. Rosanne Barr. Phil Spector. Bill Cosby. Charlie Sheen. Mel Gibson. The list could be a mile long. With each one you would ask, "What were they thinking? Did they think that they would get away with this? Why would they do that with so much to lose?"

mgidm86 30th January 2019 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Dog (Post 12583551)
If it was a white guy we would not have heard **** about it, because white people get mugged all the time in that area, and it does not crack the daily briefs section of the major papers around here, let alone the nationwide hysteria.

Bet you did not hear about these future community organizers stomping women about 4 blocks from our hero, now did you?

Just an old fashioned mugging


Good point. These guys have been running around attacking women for months. And nope, haven't seen these attacks mentioned here in Cali.

Quote:

Police said the women were walking or standing on the sidewalk during afternoon or evening hours when groups of robbers began striking them with fists, knocking them to the ground, and kicking them. Phones and purses have been taken by the offenders who then run away from the scene.

Now that is horrifying. But ya, let's keep focusing on the mean managers at Starbucks and McDonalds.

alfaniner 30th January 2019 02:04 PM

The "rope" seems to be devolving to be a "cord". Regardless of that, if the item is a factor, it's possible he was trying to do a David Carradine, whether alone or with a partner, and it got out of hand. I can see that as being sufficiently embarassing enough to make up a story.

eeyore1954 30th January 2019 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myriad (Post 12583149)
I imagine he was just looking for a footlong.

If you ever run for office or want to host an awards show this post will resurface to hurt you. Aside from that it was pretty funny.

baron 30th January 2019 02:13 PM

Apparently 'more than a dozen' detectives, plus beat cops, aren't sufficient to investigate this heinous act of violence, congressman Bobby Rush (whoever the **** he is) "wants the FBI to open a hate crime investigation."

I'm just glad this Smollett guy isn't receiving preferential treatment.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/em...ck-hate-crime/

The Big Dog 30th January 2019 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baron (Post 12583708)
Apparently 'more than a dozen' detectives, plus beat cops, aren't sufficient to investigate this heinous act of violence, congressman Bobby Rush (whoever the **** he is) "wants the FBI to open a hate crime investigation."

I'm just glad this Smollett guy isn't receiving preferential treatment.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/em...ck-hate-crime/

Bobby Rush was a major figure in the Black Panthers and was and is a major race gifter

baron 30th January 2019 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Dog (Post 12583733)
Bobby Rush was a major figure in the Black Panthers and was and is a major race gifter

Ah, now it makes sense.

Mumbles 30th January 2019 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfaniner (Post 12583695)
The "rope" seems to be devolving to be a "cord". Regardless of that, if the item is a factor, it's possible he was trying to do a David Carradine, whether alone or with a partner, and it got out of hand. I can see that as being sufficiently embarassing enough to make up a story.

So a "noose" has become...still a "noose", then? Because I see no actual change here - a thin rope is also called "cord".


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