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-   -   Continuation Cancel culture IRL Part 2 (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=354396)

d4m10n 1st June 2022 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Keith (Post 13823002)
God, if only we could monetize irony.

Agreed. We might never know which sins Reply All committed, but surely they deserved their comeuppance.

SuburbanTurkey 1st June 2022 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13823017)
Should we include online shaming campaigns among workplace issues?

Is that where cancel culture now lies for you? An employee has to keep their mouth shut about their workplace conditions or else they're doing a cancel culture? Toe the corporate line or you're a woke scold.

I wonder how many more deviations on this theme is required before someone bringing a civil rights lawsuit against their employer is doing cancel culture. We're certainly unmoored from any reasonable standard at this point anyway, just a bit of drifting further into absurdity and we're there.

johnny karate 1st June 2022 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13823019)
Agreed. We might never know which sins Reply All committed, but surely they deserved their comeuppance.

I don't that anyone here is taking that position. I think most of us take the position of "Some things happened and then some other things happened as result" and don't really care all that much past that point.

The only one staking out a definite position on this issue seems to be you, in your staunch belief that Reply All in fact did not deserve what happened to them. A position, of course, that you will do absolutely nothing to substantiate, per your usual M.O.

d4m10n 1st June 2022 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13823023)
An employee has to keep their mouth shut about their workplace conditions or else they're doing a cancel culture?

Had the employee in question not performed a public woke scolding, the podcast in question would not have been cancelled. Hopefully they all find someplace else to do the podcasting thing going forward.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny karate (Post 13823030)
The only one staking out a definite position on this issue seems to be you, in your staunch belief that Reply All in fact did not deserve what happened to them.

No one has pointed out anything that warranted cancellation of the entire project, so I'm inclined to say that we're dealing with a significant overreaction.

johnny karate 1st June 2022 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13823055)
No one has pointed out anything that warranted cancellation of the entire project, so I'm inclined to say that we're dealing with a significant overreaction.

I'm not sure why you think you're entitled to have anything about what happened justified to your satisfaction.

d4m10n 1st June 2022 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny karate (Post 13823060)
I'm not sure why you think you're entitled to have anything about what happened justified to your satisfaction.

Everyone is entitled to their own conclusions about how and why that formerly successful podcast was shut down; you are welcome to develop your own theory of the case.

johnny karate 1st June 2022 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13823063)
Everyone is entitled to their own conclusions about how and why that formerly successful podcast was shut down; you are welcome to develop your own theory of the case.

You can draw whatever misguided conclusions that you want. No one is saying otherwise.

What you're not entitled to is an explanation that meets your arbitrary standard of how you think these things should be handled.

Dr. Keith 1st June 2022 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13823055)
Had the employee in question not performed a public woke scolding, the podcast in question would not have been cancelled. Hopefully they all find someplace else to do the podcasting thing going forward.

No one has pointed out anything that warranted cancellation of the entire project, so I'm inclined to say that we're dealing with a significant overreaction.

Happy and healthy workplaces rarely blow up publicly.

You’re conviction that the only problem was the employee’s woke scolding is a bit weird. You have no inside knowledge and yet you are confident that everything was great except for that. Okay. I doubt you are right, but I don’t care enough to really think much more about it.

d4m10n 1st June 2022 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Keith (Post 13823080)
You’re conviction that the only problem was the employee’s woke scolding is a bit weird.

No one said it was the "only problem," but the question remains:
Quote:

They stepped down after a wave of Twitter outrage. Isn't that precisely what 'cancel culture' is all about?
Obviously, yes. Once again, the wokescolds get their way and the world has become a bit poorer as a result.

johnny karate 1st June 2022 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13823112)
Obviously, yes. Once again, the wokescolds get their way and the world has become a bit poorer as a result.

I was wondering what that sense of malaise was that I’d been experiencing recently, and now I know. There’s one less podcast in the world.

I’ll see you at the candle light vigil.

johnny karate 1st June 2022 05:12 PM

I’m trying to think of a whiter white person problem than “A podcast I like was cancelled” and all I can come up with is if Starbucks discontinued their pumpkin spice latte.

WHICH THE WOKE TWITTER MOB IS PROBABLY COMING FOR NEXT

JoeMorgue 1st June 2022 05:15 PM

I'm convinced. Everyone should be forced at gunpoint to watch this podcast so it doesn't get..... oh god I can't even say... CANCELELD!

EaglePuncher 1st June 2022 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13823055)
Had the employee in question not performed a public woke scolding, the podcast in question would not have been cancelled. Hopefully they all find someplace else to do the podcasting thing going forward.

No one has pointed out anything that warranted cancellation of the entire project, so I'm inclined to say that we're dealing with a significant overreaction.

And there we have it "Those entitled SJW black people, they're nothing but trouble!!!!"

SuburbanTurkey 2nd June 2022 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Keith (Post 13823002)
This all sounded a bit familiar. Didn’t Bon Appetite have a similar problem with their famous Test Kitchen YouTube video creators? In fact it did, and that was covered by a podcast. Which podcast? Not really that important since it surely wouldn’t be the very one that just imploded for similar reasons. God, if only we could monetize irony.

https://www.sceneandheardnu.com/cont...t-test-kitchen

Man I wish I could have been a fly on the wall for that moment. I can imagine these people quietly simmering about the general situation indefinitely, but this level of blatant and acute hypocrisy was probably enough to get their blood in a rolling boil. Imagine the balls of these guys to run this series knowing what they knew about their own unsavory practices.

The time between the second episode and the announcement about the departures was only 13 days. Must have been rowdy as hell in that office, should have sold tickets.

Dr. Keith 2nd June 2022 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13823516)
Man I wish I could have been a fly on the wall for that moment. I can imagine these people quietly simmering about the general situation indefinitely, but this level of blatant and acute hypocrisy was probably enough to get their blood in a rolling boil. Imagine the balls of these guys to run this series knowing what they knew about their own unsavory practices.

The time between the second episode and the announcement about the departures was only 13 days. Must have been rowdy as hell in that office, should have sold tickets.

Apparently not. Apparently all was well until that one tweet muddied the waters.

SuburbanTurkey 2nd June 2022 05:38 AM

Current victim of cancel culture is the Southern Baptist Convention, who is being unfairly harassed by woke scolds after they released a report that they systematically covered up sex abuse allegations.

Don't know why the public feels it's appropriate to cancel them over this. Internal systems dealt with the problem fine until all these woke scolds saying rape is bad whipped up the internet lynch mobs.

Dr. Keith 2nd June 2022 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13823551)
Current victim of cancel culture is the Southern Baptist Convention, who is being unfairly harassed by woke scolds after they released a report that they systematically covered up sex abuse allegations.

Don't know why the public feels it's appropriate to cancel them over this. Internal systems dealt with the problem fine until all these woke scolds saying rape is bad whipped up the internet lynch mobs.

Probably some disgruntled woke scold intern who released that report.

Delphic Oracle 3rd June 2022 05:55 AM

Calls for personal accountability, as noted repeatedly, is not new.

Resistance to any notion of personal accountability and heaping scorn on anyone who expects consistency and fairness, on the other hand...

"Don't rock the boat" has become "don't point out that someone has already capsized the boat and we're all at risk of drowning."

Harmful behavior itself is nothing compared to the *gasp* pointing out that someone's behavior is causing harm.

This is plain as day emotional manipulation.

ZiprHead 3rd June 2022 09:23 AM

This is a real example of cancel culture.

DeSantis Vetoes Funding for Tampa Bay Rays Facility Over Tweets About Gun Control: Report

JoeMorgue 3rd June 2022 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZiprHead (Post 13824837)

And yet we won't hear a peep from the usual suspects.

Funny... that.

(Oh and don't bother pretending you care after someone else brings it up)

johnny karate 3rd June 2022 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZiprHead (Post 13824837)

The real "cancel culture" would be if someone tweeted that DeSantis should be fired.

SuburbanTurkey 3rd June 2022 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZiprHead (Post 13824837)

No, this is real censorship, an actual phenomena that people should worry about. Calling this cancel culture does it a disservice.

pgwenthold 3rd June 2022 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13824840)
And yet we won't hear a peep from the usual suspects.

Funny... that.

(Oh and don't bother pretending you care after someone else brings it up)

Oh, what you will hear is that public funding for stadiums is not worth it. On the whole, that's a fair complaint, but that's not what the problem is here. He is doing it completely in a retalitory manner for their public comments.

JoeMorgue 3rd June 2022 12:45 PM

Again when "people having opinions" and "social pressure" actually becomes.... wait for it... wait for.... CANCEL CULTURE is the undefined variable.

d4m10n 3rd June 2022 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny karate (Post 13823171)
I was wondering what that sense of malaise was that I’d been experiencing recently, and now I know. There’s one less podcast in the world.

It was an incredibly popular show, arguably the best in the Gimlet lineup.

https://www.inverse.com/article/5309...-million-offer

**** all those fans though, social justice has prevailed.

johnny karate 3rd June 2022 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13825066)
It was an incredibly popular show, arguably the best in the Gimlet lineup.

https://www.inverse.com/article/5309...-million-offer

**** all those fans though, social justice has prevailed.

I guess they should have done a better job at not having a toxic work environment. There are consequences in life, and most adults understand that .

Usually, the best strategy is to just not be a ****** person instead of complaining how unfairly you were treated for being a ****** person.

wareyin 6th June 2022 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny karate (Post 13825126)
I guess they should have done a better job at not having a toxic work environment. There are consequences in life, and most adults understand that .

Usually, the best strategy is to just not be a ****** person instead of complaining how unfairly you were treated for being a ****** person.

Wait, don't you understand that if someone is popular they get to be a ****** person with absolutely no repercussions?

/s

SuburbanTurkey 6th June 2022 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13825066)
It was an incredibly popular show, arguably the best in the Gimlet lineup.

https://www.inverse.com/article/5309...-million-offer

**** all those fans though, social justice has prevailed.

**** all those fans, who are undoubtedly a significant portion of the public unhappy to learn about the company's unsavory workplace practices. Or you assuming that the "cancel culture" mobs are some purely external force, raiding from flashpoint to flashpoint?

Someone not trying to fit a round peg through the square "cancel culture" hole might recognize this as a popular show alienating its audience after their bad practices are made public, rather than a raid by a tribe of barbarian woke scolds that suddenly appeared over the horizon.

JoeMorgue 6th June 2022 06:51 AM

I wish someone would cancel this stupid hill someone is still determined to die trying to defend.

Darat 6th June 2022 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13826719)
I wish someone would cancel this stupid hill someone is still determined to die trying to defend.

You are trying to cancel them!

SuburbanTurkey 6th June 2022 07:35 AM

Another right wing piss-baby has had to cancel himself to get on the "cancelled truth-sayer" gravy train

Quote:

Ilya Shapiro resigns from Georgetown following reinstatement after 122-day investigation of tweets
https://www.thefire.org/ilya-shapiro...ion-of-tweets/

How long before his substack drops?

Dr. Keith 6th June 2022 03:19 PM

Daniel Boone is now being canceled:

https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/sch...ng-11652713941

Will the carnage ever end?

Graham2001 8th June 2022 12:39 AM

Unlike SuburbanTurkey, I actually read the article they linked to in such a gloating manner (I suspect they read nothing more than the url.). The key paragraph is the second last.


Quote:

Since day one, FIRE has advocated for Shapiro’s right to free expression at Georgetown. We wrote to Georgetown arguing that because the university promises faculty members free expression, it cannot investigate or punish them for exercising that right. By investigating Shapiro for four months and then clearing him not due to the university’s free expression commitments, but due to a technicality — and suggesting the tweets could have been actionable had Shapiro already been in the school’s employ, and that future similar tweets will be actionable — Georgetown has proven it is not committed to protecting free expression for students or faculty. This has certainly caused a chilling effect, and members of the Georgetown community will surely think twice before expressing a viewpoint with which others may disagree.


https://www.thefire.org/ilya-shapiro...ion-of-tweets/



Cancel Culture is a myth, it covers up the reality of Censorship Culture...

Darat 8th June 2022 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham2001 (Post 13828247)
Unlike SuburbanTurkey, I actually read the article they linked to in such a gloating manner (I suspect they read nothing more than the url.). The key paragraph is the second last.





https://www.thefire.org/ilya-shapiro...ion-of-tweets/



Cancel Culture is a myth, it covers up the reality of Censorship Culture...

He sounds a real snowflake - "hostile work environment"? Though that was only something snowflakes complained about?

SuburbanTurkey 8th June 2022 04:42 AM

The real scandal with Ilya is whoever was dumb enough to hire him in the first place. We're far enough down this "cancelled free-speech martyr" road that institutions should be able to clock these grandstanding idiots a mile away. Whoever responsible for extending a job offer to Ilya Shapiro should be having their job performance scrutinized.

An important part of any academia hiring process should be trying to sort out whether a candidate is seeking out sober academic work, or if they're just looking for a grandstanding opportunity to become a right wing media darling for standing up the woke liberal hivemind.

Shapiro is on Tucker Carlson whining about the "diversicrats". Truly a grave loss of a serious academic. The student body is surely worse off not being able to get lectures from someone who sounds like the comment section of the worst right wing rags come to life.

Graham2001 8th June 2022 05:38 AM

From the NY Intelligencer...


Quote:

Everybody supports freedom of speech for ideas they agree with. The concept only has meaning if it’s applied to ideas you don’t agree with.

I don’t agree with the idea conservative lawyer Ilya Shapiro expressed in January, when he objected to President Biden’s promise to appoint a Black woman to the first Supreme Court opening. (I wrote a column attacking his position.) But rather than simply refute his easily refutable arguments, Shapiro’s critics demanded he be fired by Georgetown, which had just hired him to teach at its law center. Georgetown agreed on principle with the demand that he could be fired for his opinions but kept him on staff on a technicality.

Shapiro is quitting his position on the grounds that Georgetown refuses to grant his opinions the same protection afforded to people with progressive points of view, and I have to admit he appears to be correct about that.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022...ack-woman.html

Darat 8th June 2022 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham2001 (Post 13828380)

Yeah these snowflakes - thinking they shouldn't be criticised.

Chris_Halkides 8th June 2022 08:15 AM

Georgetown's two standards
 
Ilya Shapiro's letter was posted at FIRE.

"Third, under the reasoning of the IDEAA Report, none of this objective textual analysis even matters. As the report put it, “The University’s anti-harassment policy does not require that a respondent intend to denigrate or show hostility or aversion to individuals based on a protected status. Instead, the Policy requires consideration of the ‘purpose or effect’ of a respondent’s conduct.” According to this theory, the mere fact that many people were offended, or claimed to be, is enough for me to have violated the policies under which I was being investigated...In 2018, Georgetown protected this tweet from Professor Carol Christine Fair during Justice Kavanaugh’s confirmation process: “Look at this chorus of entitled white men justifying a serial rapist’s arrogated entitlement. All of them deserve miserable deaths while feminists laugh as they take their last gasps. Bonus: we castrate their corpses and feed them to swine? Yes.” When Prof. Fair advocated mass murder and castration based on race and gender, Georgetown did not initiate an investigation, but instead invoked Georgetown’s free-expression policy."

One, Georgetown was...grossly inconsistent...in its treatments of the tweets. Two, neither Shapiro nor anyone else could function under these terms. Scott Greenfield observed, "Having already been demonized beyond repair, the ironically subconstitutional notion that any future offense would be determined based not on what was objectively said or intended, but on whether anyone claimed to be offended, harmed or traumatized by it, made his demise essentially inevitable."

Darat 8th June 2022 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides (Post 13828463)
Ilya Shapiro's letter was posted at FIRE.

"Third, under the reasoning of the IDEAA Report, none of this objective textual analysis even matters. As the report put it, “The University’s anti-harassment policy does not require that a respondent intend to denigrate or show hostility or aversion to individuals based on a protected status. Instead, the Policy requires consideration of the ‘purpose or effect’ of a respondent’s conduct.” According to this theory, the mere fact that many people were offended, or claimed to be, is enough for me to have violated the policies under which I was being investigated...In 2018, Georgetown protected this tweet from Professor Carol Christine Fair during Justice Kavanaugh’s confirmation process: “Look at this chorus of entitled white men justifying a serial rapist’s arrogated entitlement. All of them deserve miserable deaths while feminists laugh as they take their last gasps. Bonus: we castrate their corpses and feed them to swine? Yes.” When Prof. Fair advocated mass murder and castration based on race and gender, Georgetown did not initiate an investigation, but instead invoked Georgetown’s free-expression policy."

One, Georgetown was...grossly inconsistent...in its treatments of the tweets. Two, neither Shapiro nor anyone else could function under these terms. Scott Greenfield observed, "Having already been demonized beyond repair, the ironically subconstitutional notion that any future offense would be determined based not on what was objectively said or intended, but on whether anyone claimed to be offended, harmed or traumatized by it, made his demise essentially inevitable."

Yet the rest of the faculty does, so I really don't think your 2) passes the sniff test.

Chris_Halkides 8th June 2022 08:18 AM

What actually happened
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13828384)
Yeah these snowflakes - thinking they shouldn't be criticised.

The tweets predated Mr. Shapiro's appointment at Georgetown. Mr. Shapiro acknowledged that the tweets were poorly worded and deleted them. Other people kept the tweets alive. Mr. Shapiro never said that he should not be criticized.

JoeMorgue 8th June 2022 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides (Post 13828465)
Mr. Shapiro never said that he should not be criticized.

"You can criticize me, but only on my terms" IS saying you should not be criticized.

JoeMorgue 8th June 2022 08:21 AM

Like watch I'm going to show you something.

I have zero idea who Mr. Shapiro is. I have no idea what opinion he's being "cancelled" over is. But I already know it's going to be some version of bigotry because, as I keep pointing out, THAT'S LITERALLY THE ONLY CONTEXT THE INTERNET USES FREE SPEECH.

Let me go check... and I'm right.

Chris_Halkides 8th June 2022 08:22 AM

what actually transpired
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13828464)
Yet the rest of the faculty does, so I really don't think your 2) passes the sniff test.

I suggest that you get up to speed on the facts of incident, which establish that there was a double standard regarding what could and could not be tweeted. Regarding your smell test, it's not much of an argument to begin with. It suffers further when one reads Mr. Shapiro's hypotheticals laid out in his letter. Did you read it?

JoeMorgue 8th June 2022 08:24 AM

Let me guess the "double standard" is going to "They treated right people and wrong people differently."

Chris_Halkides 8th June 2022 08:24 AM

The facts of the case are what they are
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13828466)
"You can criticize me, but only on my terms" IS saying you should not be criticized.

Nonsense. He did not say anything close to that. He was being set up for a fall and chose not to play into that trap.

Darat 8th June 2022 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides (Post 13828465)
The tweets predated Mr. Shapiro's appointment at Georgetown. Mr. Shapiro acknowledged that the tweets were poorly worded and deleted them. Other people kept the tweets alive. Mr. Shapiro never said that he should not be criticized.

Oh I agree the whole thing is ludicrous, his tweets, the complaint, the actions not taken and then his resignation because of a "hostile workplace" but I wonder why stupid employers are now called "cancel culture"?

Darat 8th June 2022 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides (Post 13828471)
I suggest that you get up to speed on the facts of incident, which establish that there was a double standard regarding what could and could not be tweeted. Regarding your smell test, it's not much of an argument to begin with. It suffers further when one reads Mr. Shapiro's hypotheticals laid out in his letter. Did you read it?

I read the entire article that was linked to, including his letter of resignation. Is there something else that I should read that will change my mind about 1) the bad employers and 2) the snowflake?

And of course - why this is "cancel culture"?

JoeMorgue 8th June 2022 08:27 AM

I'm also loving the "Cancel Culture" stories where the person isn't fired but storms away in a huff of their own volition.

Dr. Keith 8th June 2022 08:38 AM

I simply will not abide by any system which holds my racists remarks against me. That sort of hostility can not be tolerated in a free society.

johnny karate 8th June 2022 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13828477)
I'm also loving the "Cancel Culture" stories where the person isn't fired but storms away in a huff of their own volition.

And are then given a platform on a hugely popular and influential cable news programs with millions of viewers.


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