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-   -   Continuation Cancel culture IRL Part 2 (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=354396)

rdwight 18th July 2022 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wareyin (Post 13858029)
Wait, do you actually believe that the owners that shut the business down were "literally" willing to hand the business to the workers instead? No wonder unpaid backpay being wage theft is so confusing.

Cute. I thought you were uninformed but its your decision to stay that way to continue arguments here. Have fun with that.


Quote:

Originally Posted by autumn1971 (Post 13858142)
Itís more a window into a whole bunch of people, including mom, who had no business plan worth ****, yet threw money into a hole. The business was a failure, the workers were unhappy working in a failing business, and every side decided that drama worth of a telanovela was the answer.

Everyone got what they deserved.

The fact that all the idiots chose to air their failures on modern media does not change the fact that the failure was a real-world event that was independent of all the whining on-line by everyone involved.

But that was the actual plan. The mother was subsidizing the daughter's passion project knowing full well it was not a money making endeavor. She would have continued to fund the project until the workers went online to smear them and demand the business.

wareyin 18th July 2022 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdwight (Post 13858176)
Cute. I thought you were uninformed but its your decision to stay that way to continue arguments here. Have fun with that.

I read the linked articles, as well as several others. Oddly enough everything I've read says the owners chose to close the business down. I can't say I've seen any article that backs up your claim that the owners wanted or were willing to give the business to the workers. In fact, even you disagree, admitting that when workers "demanded" the business, the owner chose to shut it down instead:

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdwight (Post 13858176)
But that was the actual plan. The mother was subsidizing the daughter's passion project knowing full well it was not a money making endeavor. She would have continued to fund the project until the workers went online to smear them and demand the business.


eta: or is this one of those "I was totally going to give this business to you but then you asked for it so NO!" things where afterwards everybody who was there clapped?

d4m10n 18th July 2022 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by autumn1971 (Post 13858142)
The fact that all the idiots chose to air their failures on modern media does not change the fact that the failure was a real-world event that was independent of all the whining on-line by everyone involved.

The on-line campaign against the owners led directly to the sale of the building by EJ, who seemed fairly exasperated with the workers' demands to turn over ownership of shop and with "people taking cyber space to spit on me and my kids based on lies and ignorance."

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdwight (Post 13858176)
She would have continued to fund the project until the workers went online to smear them and demand the business.

Precisely. The smear campaign forced EJ to ask herself whether this was a passion project worth her continued support.

wareyin 18th July 2022 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13858195)
The on-line campaign against the owners led directly to the sale of the building by EJ, who seemed fairly exasperated with the workers' demands to turn over ownership of shop.

We're being told that the owners wanted to turn over ownership to the workers. Why would they be exasperated with people asking them to do what they wanted to do?

d4m10n 18th July 2022 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wareyin (Post 13858196)
We're being told that the owners wanted to turn over ownership to the workers.

It is possible that Sonam Parikh and Kate Egghart wanted to do so—though I don't recall seeing or hearing that from them—but that doesn't matter if the third owner (EJ) is the one keeping the business from going under while operating at a loss.

wareyin 18th July 2022 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13858211)
It is possible that Sonam Parikh and Kate Egghart wanted to do so (though I don't recall seeing or hearing that from them) but that doesn't matter if the third owner (EJ) is the one keeping the business from going under while operating at a loss.

If the workers are demanding ownership of a failing business, giving them that business would have actually let EJ off the hook for keeping it from going under.

Now it's getting hard to keep track of...what exactly was cancelled here? A failing business? Seems it was cancelling itself due to the whole nonviable business concept/poorly run restaurant thing.

d4m10n 18th July 2022 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wareyin (Post 13858222)
If the workers are demanding ownership of a failing business, giving them that business would have actually let EJ off the hook for keeping it from going under.

You seem to be assuming the newly formed workers' co-op would've found some way to pay adequate rent to the owner of the building, that is, EJ.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wareyin (Post 13858222)
Now it's getting hard to keep track of...what exactly was cancelled here?

Mina's World, described by eater.com as "a vibrant queer community space" and by Bon Appetit as "a community-oriented, QTPOC-owned and -operated coffee shop."

wareyin 18th July 2022 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13858228)
You seem to be assuming the newly formed workers co-op would've found some way to pay adequate rent to the owner of the building, that is, EJ.

Not at all. If EJ, as the owner, is the sole way bills are paid, then EJ giving up that ownership removes the onus of the money black hole that this failing coffee shop apparently was. So she's not paying any of the other bills/wages (whatever wages were actually being paid, that is) and thus is loosing less money than she did by keeping them afloat. If they can't pay the bills for staff, water, equipment, supplies, etc, then they shut themselves down and EJ still loses less money on the unpaid rent given that she's no longer owner and paying the rent herself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13858228)
Mina's World, described by eater.com as "a vibrant queer community space" and by Bon Appetit as "a community-oriented, QTPOC-owned and -operated coffee shop."

Mina's World, described by every non-puff piece as a failing coffee shop that was going to be out of business soon anyway?

Look, I get that working for a business that is going under sucks, but when the business isn't paying the wages owed and still can't make money to pay the bills then it isn't a viable business. Businesses that aren't viable fail all the time. That's capitalism, not cancel culture.

d4m10n 18th July 2022 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wareyin (Post 13858239)
If EJ, as the owner, is the sole way bills are paid, then EJ giving up that ownership removes the onus of the money black hole that this failing coffee shop apparently was.

It puts EJ in a landlord position to a failing business run by the sort of people who would inevitably drive it into the ground, which is a big step down from being a landlord to someone willing to put in the sweat equity to remodel the building and build up the business in the first place. In that latter scenario, there is at least some hope that they would eventually make it into the black.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wareyin (Post 13858239)
So she's not paying any of the other bills/wages (whatever wages were actually being paid, that is) and thus is loosing less money than she did by keeping them afloat.

I have seen no reason for us to assume monthly business losses were in excess of monthly rents in that market. If the co-op didn't pay the rent (which strikes me as highly probable, given their views of how capital ought to work) that could be a much greater loss than was already being incurred.

d4m10n 18th July 2022 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wareyin (Post 13858239)
...when the business isn't paying the wages owed...

I don't believe this assertion has been shown to be true, and I'm not particularly inclined to trust the individuals who made it, given that they feel entitled to demand the entire business.

ETA: Where did you find the non-puff pieces?

wareyin 18th July 2022 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13858255)
It puts EJ in a landlord position to a failing business run by the sort of people who would inevitably drive it into the ground, which is a big step down from being a landlord to someone willing to put in the sweat equity to remodel the building and build up the business in the first place. In that latter scenario, there is at least some hope that they would eventually make it into the black.

EJ was already the landlord to a failing business run by someone who was driving it into the ground. Giving the business to someone else gets her off the hook for running it into the ground plus she isn't paying wages and/or bills for the day to day operation of said failing business.

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13858255)
I have seen no reason for us to assume monthly business losses were in excess of monthly rents in that market. If the co-op didn't pay the rent (which strikes me as highly probable, given their views of how capital ought to work) that could be a much greater loss than was already being incurred.

EJ was the landlord for that failing business and the only owner paying the bills. She was already eating the rent payments that her business couldn't afford to pay her.

wareyin 18th July 2022 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13858260)
I don't believe this assertion has been shown to be true, and I'm not particularly inclined to trust the individuals who made it, given that they feel entitled to demand the entire business.

Do you accept that the business was already handling money badly (the reason EJ had to pay out of pocket just to keep it running as long as it did)? Is there some reason to doubt that a business that was failing may have also not paid the full wages owed to staff? It's not like that's unheard of in any business, nor like it's rare at all in the restaurant business.

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13858260)
ETA: Where did you find the non-puff pieces?

Try any source that doesn't use glowing terms to describe a business that can't pay the workers or the bills.

d4m10n 18th July 2022 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wareyin (Post 13858265)
She was already eating the rent payments that her business couldn't afford to pay her.

Where did you find this information? Was it in one of the non-puff pieces which you won't link to for some reason?

Quote:

Originally Posted by wareyin (Post 13858270)
Do you accept that the business was already handling money badly (the reason EJ had to pay out of pocket just to keep it running as long as it did)?

No. It's not remotely unusual for start-up small businesses to operate in the red for awhile as they build up their reputation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wareyin (Post 13858270)
Is there some reason to doubt that a business that was failing may have also not paid the full wages owed to staff?

Yes. The individual making the claim about wages also felt entitled to be handsomely compensated for work they did not do.

pgwenthold 18th July 2022 06:44 PM

I read today about a gay mayor in Oklahoma who quit and left town after receiving death threats.

But, you know, Jordan Peterson got criticized for fat shaming a model on Twitter, and that's an outrage.

wareyin 19th July 2022 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13858323)
Where did you find this information? Was it in one of the non-puff pieces which you won't link to for some reason?

Wait, you think she was paying all the other bills, but forcing the business that she owned to pay her rent was a step too far? And that wasn't her eating the rent? If you take money from one pocket and put it into another, have you made any money?

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13858323)
No. It's not remotely unusual for start-up small businesses to operate in the red for awhile as they build up their reputation.

We aren't exactly talking about "start-up small businesses" here, we're talking about a restaurant. You know, the thing that 80% of fail within the first few years, but somehow this one failing is nefarious if you squint and tilt your head just right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13858323)
Yes. The individual making the claim about wages also felt entitled to be handsomely compensated for work they did not do.

I see. A business that can't pay its bills is obviously trustworthy and worth believing, while the worker who wasn't getting paid is just greedy. Well, if that's your standard for evidence, I hope you never work for a restaurant, or run one!

d4m10n 19th July 2022 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wareyin (Post 13858784)
Wait, you think she was paying all the other bills, but forcing the business that she owned to pay her rent was a step too far?

You have not answered my question. I'll ask again: Where exactly did you get the impression that Mina's World wasn't covering rent by the summer of 2022?

Quote:

Originally Posted by wareyin (Post 13858784)
A business that can't pay its bills is obviously trustworthy and worth believing, while the worker who wasn't getting paid is just greedy.

One has to decide who is being more reasonable and truthful in this situation, the owner or the people who demanded to be given years worth of compensation (in the form of the business itself) for restoration and remodeling work which they didn't do.

wareyin 19th July 2022 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13858788)
You have not answered my question. I'll ask again: Where exactly did you get the impression that Mina's World wasn't covering rent by the summer of 2022?

I'm sorry, I thought I made it simple enough for you. Who was paying Mina's World's bills? EJ. Who owned the building ostensibly charging rent for MW? EJ. So...either EJ is paying the bills which include rent to herself, or the rent wasn't being paid. Either way, she was eating the rent.

As I said, if you take money out of one pocket and put it into another, how much money did you make?

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13858788)
One has to decide who is being more reasonable and truthful in this situation, the owner or the people who demanded to be given years worth of compensation (in the form of the business itself) for restoration and remodeling work which they didn't do.

Yes, we've established that you do not find a worker: 1)in an industry rife with underpaying workers, who 2)works for a business that failed because it couldn't make enough money to pay the bills (which include wages), who claims to have not been paid all they were owed to be credible. We've also established that your criteria may just be tilted given your 56 page crusade to come up with some evidence of your boogieman and hope that this, finally, may be that evidence. You'll forgive me if I find that a business which can't pay the bills also not paying its workers to be rather a standard practice.

d4m10n 19th July 2022 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wareyin (Post 13858800)
Who was paying Mina's World's bills? EJ.

EJ never claimed to be paying all of MW's bills, she said that she was making up for certain operating losses, to include rent for two years following the initial opening in Feb 2020.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wareyin (Post 13858800)
Yes, we've established that you do not find a worker: 1)in an industry rife with underpaying workers, who 2)works for a business that failed because it couldn't make enough money to pay the bills (which include wages), who claims to have not been paid all they were owed to be credible.

You forgot 3) who claims to be owed an ownership stake in the business despite not having done any of the work to refurbish the building and set up the business in the first place. People who demand to be compensated for work they didn't do aren't the most reliable when it comes to claims of wage theft.

wareyin 19th July 2022 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13858863)
EJ never claimed to be paying all of MW's bills, she said that she was making up for certain operating losses, to include rent for two years following the initial opening in Feb 2020.

Really? After acting clueless that EJ was paying herself the rent (i.e. eating that bill) now you realize that she was, in fact, eating the rent for 2 years?

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13858863)
You forgot 3) who claims to be owed an ownership stake in the business despite not having done any of the work to refurbish the building and set up the business in the first place. People who demand to be compensated for work they didn't do aren't the most reliable when it comes to claims of wage theft.

Yes, we know that you have decided that your take is correct. What I'm pointing out is that everyone else isn't desperatly trying to pound a square peg of a typical failed restaurant into the as yet to be demonstrated square hole of OMG cancel culture that you are, and so isn't operating with the same biases you are.

d4m10n 19th July 2022 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wareyin (Post 13858904)
Really? After acting clueless that EJ was paying herself the rent (i.e. eating that bill) now you realize that she was, in fact, eating the rent for 2 years?

Your claim above was that EJ was still covering rent, making it a smart move to have the co-op do that instead.

Quote:

...yet to be demonstrated square hole of OMG cancel culture
Kate and Sonam were publicly shamed as gentifiers and subsequently put out of their jobs. Call it what you will, I suppose.

wareyin 19th July 2022 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13858919)
Your claim above was that EJ was still covering rent, making it a smart move to have the co-op do that instead.

No, my claim was that in a hypothetical alternate universe where this restaurant didn't fail, EJ would have still been covering rent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13858919)
Kate and Sonam were publicly shamed as gentifiers

I'm curious, do you actually think this stuff is public, public? Like, you're trawling for the most obscure examples that might, maybe, kinda be similar to your boogieman so you find it. But...do you really think the average person in that neighborhood has any idea about it? I don't. Online drama isn't as public as you seem to believe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13858919)
and subsequently put out of their jobs. Call it what you will, I suppose.

I'll call it a typical restaurant, then, as I'm not trying to force it to be an example of something I'm pretending is new and world shattering despite not being able to find a good example after 56 pages of attempts.

d4m10n 19th July 2022 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wareyin (Post 13858952)
No, my claim was that in a hypothetical alternate universe where this restaurant didn't fail, EJ would have still been covering rent.

EJ claimed that she covered the rent for two years, but the restaurant opened more than two years ago and was in the process of renovation for years prior to opening. EJ never claimed that she was still covering rent as of summer 2022. Hypothetical alternate universes are fun and all, but at least get your facts straight about what EJ actually said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wareyin (Post 13858952)
I'm curious, do you actually think this stuff is public, public?

Yes. The two confessional videos were posted to Mina's main social media feed.

ETA: More public discussion here.

wareyin 19th July 2022 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13858957)
EJ claimed that she covered the rent for two years, but the restaurant opened more than two years ago and was in the process of renovation for years prior to opening. EJ never claimed that she was still covering rent as of summer 2022. Hypothetical alternate universes are fun and all, but at least get your facts straight about what EJ actually said.

Can you show where EJ said that she was no longer covering the rent between Feb of 2022 and May or June when it closed down due to not having the money to pay rent and other bills? Or better yet, show that EJ was actually being paid by the business and not out of her own pocket during those few months?

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13858957)
Yes. The two confessional videos were posted to Mina's main social media feed.

ETA: More public discussion here.

Ok, we've established that obscure hardly followed social media feeds are public to you. Have we established that more than a handful of people in that area were aware? Again, your standards aren't exactly consistent or typical here.

ponderingturtle 19th July 2022 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgwenthold (Post 13858433)
I read today about a gay mayor in Oklahoma who quit and left town after receiving death threats.

But where the death threats organized on social media or not, that is the real issue of course.

d4m10n 19th July 2022 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wareyin (Post 13858999)
Can you show where EJ said that she was no longer covering the rent between Feb of 2022 and May or June when it closed down due to not having the money to pay rent and other bills?

It is the most straightforward reading of what she wrote, since the business operated for over two years and since she was clear on the fact that she supported the community fridge for over two years (i.e. since the initial opening).

Can you show how you came by your earlier claim that EJ was still subsidizing the rent as of June?

Quote:

Originally Posted by wareyin (Post 13858999)
Can you show where EJ said that she was no longer covering the rent between Feb of 2022 and May or June when it closed down due to not having the money to pay rent and other bills?

EJ made it perfectly clear in her final paragraph that this was not why it would close down.

Quote:

Shall I throw a towel to the air and say I am done with this absurdness? Or engage in a fight with people taking cyber space to spit on me and my kids based on lies and ignorance. You do not want MW, we are gladly shut down and move on. If you want MW stay in community, I am not asking you crowd funding or venoming money; rather post your opinions clearly and let the wide world know this can’t continue by bullying employers with kind hearts. Without crowd funding, using more financial disciplined restructuring, we will continue MW as a good community space so many people enjoyed for the last 2.5 years and which became a big part in my heart. Don’t send anyone money. Post kind words to Sonam, Kate and me(EJ).
She wasn't worried about the money, she was worried about online bullying of Kate and Sonam.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wareyin (Post 13858999)
Have we established that more than a handful of people in that area were aware?

At least a few hundred people were interested enough to upvote this reddit post explaining the situation, so yeah, more than a handful.

We'll never know how many people saw the initial public shaming campaign, though, since that Instagram account has since been taken offline.

d4m10n 19th July 2022 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle (Post 13859068)
But where the death threats organized on social media or not, that is the real issue of course.

I cannot find anything to indicate that there was an online shaming campaign against Adam Graham, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was given the popularity of "back the blue" memes around here.

pgwenthold 20th July 2022 05:37 AM

This is getting out of hand. Now Alan Dershowitz is not getting to speak at Martha's Vineyard. He is totally getting silenced. I heard him complaining about it the other day on some national TV news show.

wareyin 20th July 2022 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13859364)
It is the most straightforward reading of what she wrote, since the business operated for over two years and since she was clear on the fact that she supported the community fridge for over two years (i.e. since the initial opening).

A most straightforward reading would have noted that MW and the fridge were 2 separate entities that had been operating on 2 different timeframes, so your artificial limiting of one because of the other doesn't fly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13859364)
Can you show how you came by your earlier claim that EJ was still subsidizing the rent as of June?

As that was not in fact my claim, why should I? I have maintained throughout this discussion that MW was a failing restaurant that couldn't pay the bills. Whether EJ was paying herself the rent (as she claimed she had for 2 years without specifying the beginning or the end of those 2 years, contrary to your "straightforward reading") or EJ was not being paid the rent at all (because as EJ herself pointed out the business was doomed to fail before it ever got started/bad business plan and operations) doesn't change things into your claim that during some 3 magical months MW was a profitable business despite the owners being clear that it never, at no time, was such.

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13859364)
EJ made it perfectly clear in her final paragraph that this was not why it would close down.

In your "straightforward reading", how did you miss the fact that EJ had been subsidising the business for its entire existence, and without her doing so it couldn't continue to exist?


Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13859364)
She wasn't worried about the money, she was worried about online bullying of Kate and Sonam.

Her money was the only thing keeping the place afloat. Somehow you don't seem able to grasp that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13859364)
At least a few hundred people were interested enough to upvote this reddit post explaining the situation, so yeah, more than a handful.

A few hundred people on reddit =/= any people at all in the area/customers/potential customers. Do you really have no concept that a small coffee shop depends on local patronage to make money, not people halfway around the world on the internet? That's why I specified "a handful of people in that area.

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13859364)
IWe'll never know how many people saw the initial public shaming campaign, though, since that Instagram account has since been taken offline.

Well, that's the problem with your obscure examples, isn't it? You're trying to prove bigfoot with a grainy photo that you found on the internet and don't even know who originally posted it or where.

d4m10n 20th July 2022 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wareyin (Post 13859797)
Her money was the only thing keeping the place afloat. Somehow you don't seem able to grasp that.

We do not disagree on this point; the question is why EJ chose to stop. She made it clear enough that it was the cyberbullying campaign which made her rethink continuing to float Mina's until it reached self-sufficiency.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wareyin (Post 13859797)
A few hundred people on reddit =/= any people at all in the area/customers/potential customers. Do you really have no concept that a small coffee shop depends on local patronage to make money, not people halfway around the world on the internet?

You're never going to guess who tends to read and post on the Philly subreddit. :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by wareyin (Post 13859797)
You're trying to prove bigfoot with a grainy photo that you found on the internet and don't even know who originally posted it or where.

You literally just quoted my link to who posted it and where.

Stout 20th July 2022 06:12 PM

No doubt inspired by the action at Mina's World the workers at Portland'd newest lesbian bar have taken to the mighty Instagram to shame the owners into handing over the business to them.

Not inclusive enough for trans and POC,culturally appropriative art, racist behavior in an unsafe space, a vision that ran contrary to that of the workers, and watering down the drinks. OK, I made that last one up but you gotta admit, it wouldn't be out of character.

I'm thinking this is going to be a trans vs TERF thing but given the black/white, employee/employer dynamic and how it played out at MW, anything is possible.

Lesbian bar shuts down one week after opening because they weren't woke enough

Puppycow 21st July 2022 04:58 AM

Dave Chappelle Show Canceled by Minneapolis Venue After Social Media Backlash

Quote:

A Dave Chappelle stand-up show in Minneapolis, Minn. was canceled on Wednesday, just hours before the comedian was set to perform.

First Avenue, the iconic venue that provided the setting for Prince’s “Purple Rain,” announced that the show would not be taking place at their theater and was instead moving to Varsity Theater. In an Instagram post, the venue addressed the social media backlash they had received after booking Chappelle, who has had his share of controversy this year after his Netflix special “The Closer” was criticized for transphobic jokes.

“To staff, artists and our community, we hear you and we are sorry. We know we must hold ourselves to the highest standards, and we know we let you down. We are not just a black box with people in it, and we understand that First Ave is not just a room, but meaningful beyond our walls,” the statement reads. “The First Avenue team and you have worked hard to make our venues the safest spaces in the country, and we will continue with that mission. We believe in diverse voices and the freedom of artistic expression, but in honoring that, we lost sight of the impact this would have.
Are they saying it would be unsafe for a comedian to tell jokes? What a bunch of snowflakes. :rolleyes:

wareyin 21st July 2022 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13860127)
We do not disagree on this point; the question is why EJ chose to stop. She made it clear enough that it was the cyberbullying campaign which made her rethink continuing to float Mina's until it reached self-sufficiency.

EJ seemed pretty clear that the business would never have reached self-sufficiency when she talked about the bad business plan and all. But you seem to disagree with the owner and major financer of the business, for some reason.

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13860127)
You're never going to guess who tends to read and post on the Philly subreddit. :rolleyes:

People on the internet. People who are (like you) nowhere near Philly but are trawling for internet drama. You're going to have to do better than an open subreddit full of anonymous users if you want to show even one customer/potential customer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13860127)
You literally just quoted my link to who posted it and where.

I quoted your link to the deleted post? Are you sure about that?

Dr. Keith 21st July 2022 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgwenthold (Post 13859763)
This is getting out of hand. Now Alan Dershowitz is not getting to speak at Martha's Vineyard. He is totally getting silenced. I heard him complaining about it the other day on some national TV news show.

Thatís just awful. . . ly funny.

d4m10n 21st July 2022 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stout (Post 13860239)
No doubt inspired by the action at Mina's World the workers at [Portland's] newest lesbian bar have taken to the mighty Instagram to shame the owners into handing over the business to them.

Took me a little while to find the original sources and it looks like the worker's collective has gone private. No neutral reporting on what's happening, all activist commentary so far as I can see.

ETA: Here's one source trying to be somewhat journalistic about sharing what's happening.

Stout 21st July 2022 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13860739)
Took me a little while to find the original sources and it looks like the worker's collective has gone private. No neutral reporting on what's happening, all activist commentary so far as I can see.

ETA: Here's one source trying to be somewhat journalistic about sharing what's happening.

That happens a lot. A group goes public with their complaints, the "wrong" people get ahold of it and it's either go private or delete.

I wonder what happened here?

A bunch of Proud Boys wearing "Nobody Knows I'm a Lesbian" tshirts threatening to sue if denied entry based on gender presentation and sexual preference, maybe?

Too many AGP trans showing up in French maid's outfits?

Too many straight/bi women showing up "out of curiosity"?

Aside: Hey what do you know, you learn something every day. I had no idea there was a lipstick lesbian pride flag. More research needed.

autumn1971 21st July 2022 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puppycow (Post 13860413)
Dave Chappelle Show Canceled by Minneapolis Venue After Social Media Backlash



Are they saying it would be unsafe for a comedian to tell jokes? What a bunch of snowflakes. :rolleyes:

Theyíre saying they calculated the profit/loss and it wasnít in their favor.
Jesus, why do rightists hate Capitalism so much these days?
Iím a Socialist and Iím much more comfortable with free market economics than anyone in the republican mob

autumn1971 21st July 2022 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13858195)
The on-line campaign against the owners led directly to the sale of the building by EJ, who seemed fairly exasperated with the workers' demands to turn over ownership of shop and with "people taking cyber space to spit on me and my kids based on lies and ignorance."

Precisely. The smear campaign forced EJ to ask herself whether this was a passion project worth her continued support.

EJ had to seek out this tiny amount of internet nonsense as an excuse to close.
She was too much of a snowflake to admit that her business was crap, but still wanted to give her daughter free money.
Cry me a ******* river.
The business failed.
The.
*******.
End.

Stout 21st July 2022 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by autumn1971 (Post 13860835)
Theyíre saying they calculated the profit/loss and it wasnít in their favor.
Jesus, why do rightists hate Capitalism so much these days?
Iím a Socialist and Iím much more comfortable with free market economics than anyone in the republican mob

That's a falsehood. The show was sold out, it says so right in the article.

No doubt the venue was concerned about possible activist disruptions like rushing the stage or pulling the fire alarm so they decided to kowtow to the online mob.

Surprised they even booked him in the first place.

Cain 21st July 2022 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by autumn1971 (Post 13860835)
Theyíre saying they calculated the profit/loss and it wasnít in their favor.

If they were saying that, they'd be dicks, but they're not saying that (at least judging by what's quoted above). If it's their real motive, which is entirely plausible, then people still shouldn't support the venue.

Quote:

Iím a Socialist and Iím much more comfortable with free market economics than anyone in the republican mob
That's not a good thing. It's an indicator of bad faith all around.

ZirconBlue 22nd July 2022 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puppycow (Post 13860413)

The headline says "canceled", but it's really just a change of venue, right?

Quote:

First Avenue, the iconic venue that provided the setting for Princeís ďPurple Rain,Ē announced that the show would not be taking place at their theater and was instead moving to Varsity Theater.

catsmate 22nd July 2022 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stout (Post 13858061)
So, shooting in the dark then. After failing to center the issue on a topic the issue wasn't centered on, get offended and cry bias. Let me rephrase my post in a more sensitive, caring, and compassionate way.

Nah, we tried but after further research we found we had to de-center the wage theft idea and focus on what this really was. Social justice advocate on social justice advocate cannibalism.

Better?

:rolleyes:
Meanwhile, back in the Real World......

catsmate 22nd July 2022 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stout (Post 13860239)
No doubt inspired by the action at Mina's World the workers at Portland'd newest lesbian bar have taken to the mighty Instagram to shame the owners into handing over the business to them.

Not inclusive enough for trans and POC,culturally appropriative art, racist behavior in an unsafe space, a vision that ran contrary to that of the workers, and watering down the drinks. OK, I made that last one up but you gotta admit, it wouldn't be out of character.

I'm thinking this is going to be a trans vs TERF thing but given the black/white, employee/employer dynamic and how it played out at MW, anything is possible.

Lesbian bar shuts down one week after opening because they weren't woke enough

Have you a real source for your assertions?

Stout 22nd July 2022 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catsmate (Post 13861311)
Have you a real source for your assertions?

OMG...Is that last sentence a link?

catsmate 23rd July 2022 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stout (Post 13861417)
OMG...Is that last sentence a link?

:rolleyes:
Perhaps I should have dumbed down my reply: Do you have a reliable, unbiased or non-wingnut source for your assertions?

Stout 23rd July 2022 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catsmate (Post 13861803)
:rolleyes:
Perhaps I should have dumbed down my reply: Do you have a reliable, unbiased or non-wingnut source for your assertions?

Oh, I see. You want to whinge about the source. Well then if it's so unreliable it should be a simple matter to come up with an alternative explanation as to why this newly shut down bar closed abruptly and remains closed. :)

With good reliable vetted sources of course.

Lithrael 23rd July 2022 08:27 AM

Going by their web presence, Iím shocked that it sounds like these guys were ill prepared to actually run their business.

https://docmaries.com/about-us

Stout 25th July 2022 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lithrael (Post 13861874)
Going by their web presence, Iím shocked that it sounds like these guys were ill prepared to actually run their business.

https://docmaries.com/about-us

Their homepage now references their instagram account for updates so that's where they're probably going to focus their online presence.

Still no thermonuclear takedown of the Libs of TikTok presentation of events. Pity really, I was expecting that story to get totally destroyed but I guess we'll just have to go with that good 'ole standby, whining about the source and call that an attempt.

So...is this employees revolting and demanding their employers hand over their business to the offended employees as a form of reparations or compensation going to become a thing? Stay tuned to Libs of TikTok and I guess we'll find out.

Lplus 26th July 2022 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stout (Post 13863600)
Their homepage now references their instagram account for updates so that's where they're probably going to focus their online presence.

Still no thermonuclear takedown of the Libs of TikTok presentation of events. Pity really, I was expecting that story to get totally destroyed but I guess we'll just have to go with that good 'ole standby, whining about the source and call that an attempt.

So...is this employees revolting and demanding their employers hand over their business to the offended employees as a form of reparations or compensation going to become a thing? Stay tuned to Libs of TikTok and I guess we'll find out.

Probaly not outside the world of artisanal coffee shops.

wareyin 26th July 2022 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stout (Post 13861825)
Oh, I see. You want to whinge about the source. Well then if it's so unreliable it should be a simple matter to come up with an alternative explanation as to why this newly shut down bar closed abruptly and remains closed. :)

With good reliable vetted sources of course.

Just curious why you think that a non-story like this would have anyone who wasn't pushing an angle writing about it? That nobody else is trying to gin up a story doesn't mean the source known for choosing style over facts is correct.

Stout 26th July 2022 06:50 AM

Story,...non-story...it's just a news item that popped onto my screen and was related to a previous story posted on this recreational message board. This attempted seizure of businesses takes the idea of cancel culture to a whole new level.

This one is interesting due to the speed at which it happened, almost like it was planned.


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