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-   -   Woman Missing, then Fiance Disappears (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=354279)

kevbo 17th September 2021 07:31 PM

Woman Missing, then Fiance Disappears
 
This story is getting a little darker every day. Woman on crosscountry trip with her fiance goes missing, and he lawyers up and refuses to cooperate with authorities. Now he is missing. Something sketchy going on here, possibly with his mom and dad?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...ocid=Peregrine

From the article:

"Gabby Petito's fiancé, Brian Laundrie, has also gone missing, according to reports.
The Laundrie family's attorney told local media that the whereabouts of his client, a person of interest in Petito's missing person's case, are unknown.
Earlier on Friday, law enforcement entered Laundrie's home to speak with his family."

A more extensive article here:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/po...%A9/ar-AAOxymk

mgidm86 17th September 2021 08:26 PM

I'd disappear too if I'd just killed my fiance. Of course he could be innocent, but based on what I've read the guy couldn't act any more guilty. We shall see.

kevbo 17th September 2021 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgidm86 (Post 13602394)
I'd disappear too if I'd just killed my fiance. Of course he could be innocent, but based on what I've read the guy couldn't act any more guilty. We shall see.

That's what I'm thinking. I cannot imagine what the young woman's family is going through.

ThatGuy11200 18th September 2021 12:48 AM

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

Darat 18th September 2021 01:29 AM

That’s distressing, hard not to think he has killed her.

kevbo 18th September 2021 11:24 AM

Update:

"North Port police, FBI and other agencies are searching for Laundrie in the vast Carlton Reserve in North Port, where his family says they believe he went earlier this week."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...%A9/ar-AAOAhgR

I agree with a statement released by Gabby Pettito's family, "All of Gabby's family want the world to know that Brian is not missing, he is hiding. Gabby is missing,” ...

DevilsAdvocate 18th September 2021 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13602486)
That’s distressing, hard not to think he has killed her.

He may have killed her. Maybe intentionally. Maybe they got in a fight and she went over a cliff.

Or maybe he abandoned her in the middle of nowhere. In Moab he said they would fight and he would try to get them to go apart. Take a walk away from each other, etc.

There is a witness that says she and her boyfriend picked him up hitchhiking at about 5:30 PM August 30 in Grand Teton. He offered to pay $200 to take him to Jackson, but they were heading there anyway. He said he had been hiking alone several days, but he only had a small backpack. He said he was trying to get back to his fiancée who was back at the van working on social media. When she mentioned they were going to Jackson Hole, he got upset and asked to be let out at a dam so that he could find a different ride. She seems to think Jackson and Jackson Hole are the same thing. They are actually different but in the same direction and only about 10 miles apart.

So maybe they got in a fight and she took off in the van. He calls her and she says she is in Jackson if he wants to come there, but she isn't picking him. He hitchhikes to Jackson. Then maybe out in the middle of nowhere they get into another fight. He takes off and abandons her this time.

Maybe he finds her dead. Maybe she jumped off a cliff or some unfortunate accident. He thinks he will get blamed for murder and gets scared and goes back to Florida and gets a lawyer who tells him to not talk to the police.

Or maybe he just left her. Maybe he goes back and can't find her and just decides to hell with her. Let her find her own way home. But then she doesn't show up and think he might get in trouble and gets a lawyer.

So either he killed her or he abandoned her and she died. It seems unlikely that she is alive. It may be very difficult even to find a body in that area.

Now he is either in hiding or has gone off and killed himself.

Latest news is that the police now have both of their phones. Those may have some clues and might allow then to track their movement.

stanfr 18th September 2021 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate (Post 13602949)
He may have killed her. Maybe intentionally. Maybe they got in a fight and she went over a cliff.

Or maybe he abandoned her in the middle of nowhere. In Moab he said they would fight and he would try to get them to go apart. Take a walk away from each other, etc.

There is a witness that says she and her boyfriend picked him up hitchhiking at about 5:30 PM August 30 in Grand Teton. He offered to pay $200 to take him to Jackson, but they were heading there anyway. He said he had been hiking alone several days, but he only had a small backpack. He said he was trying to get back to his fiancée who was back at the van working on social media. When she mentioned they were going to Jackson Hole, he got upset and asked to be let out at a dam so that he could find a different ride. She seems to think Jackson and Jackson Hole are the same thing. They are actually different but in the same direction and only about 10 miles apart.

So maybe they got in a fight and she took off in the van. He calls her and she says she is in Jackson if he wants to come there, but she isn't picking him. He hitchhikes to Jackson. Then maybe out in the middle of nowhere they get into another fight. He takes off and abandons her this time.

Maybe he finds her dead. Maybe she jumped off a cliff or some unfortunate accident. He thinks he will get blamed for murder and gets scared and goes back to Florida and gets a lawyer who tells him to not talk to the police.

Or maybe he just left her. Maybe he goes back and can't find her and just decides to hell with her. Let her find her own way home. But then she doesn't show up and think he might get in trouble and gets a lawyer.

So either he killed her or he abandoned her and she died. It seems unlikely that she is alive. It may be very difficult even to find a body in that area.

Now he is either in hiding or has gone off and killed himself.

Latest news is that the police now have both of their phones. Those may have some clues and might allow then to track their movement.

I agree with most of that assessment. I think the vast majority of the public immediately assumes he killed her because that is the "only" reason he would lawyer up. I think it is at least somewhat plausible that he either left her somewhere (and then she got into some other trouble) or there was an accident.
The problem I have with those latter scenarios is that assuming they are true, I would argue that cooperating with the police--and running the risk that he would therefore become implicated and have his words used against him--is lower than the risk of not cooperating, since as we have seen that *already* renders him guilty in most people's eyes, so unless he was super sure that the authorities would be able to securely place the blame on someone other than him--without his cooperation--than that is a big gamble.

On the other hand, if he did kill her and already told someone (his lawyer? his parents?) that he did, then it makes sense that his lawyer would tell him to shut up, until when and if there is time to mitigate his guilt.

DevilsAdvocate 18th September 2021 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stanfr (Post 13603074)
I agree with most of that assessment. I think the vast majority of the public immediately assumes he killed her because that is the "only" reason he would lawyer up. I think it is at least somewhat plausible that he either left her somewhere (and then she got into some other trouble) or there was an accident.
The problem I have with those latter scenarios is that assuming they are true, I would argue that cooperating with the police--and running the risk that he would therefore become implicated and have his words used against him--is lower than the risk of not cooperating, since as we have seen that *already* renders him guilty in most people's eyes, so unless he was super sure that the authorities would be able to securely place the blame on someone other than him--without his cooperation--than that is a big gamble.

On the other hand, if he did kill her and already told someone (his lawyer? his parents?) that he did, then it makes sense that his lawyer would tell him to shut up, until when and if there is time to mitigate his guilt.

The more I read and think about it, the more it seems like murder. Her last face-time with her family was 8/25 saying she was in Grand Teton. On 8/27 was last snapchat to a friend saying they were headed to Yellowstone. It has been reported that she also did an Instagram "like" on 8/27. Her friend had a birthday on 8/29 and she was supposed to call her friend to meet up in Yellowstone, but that didn't happen.

That seems to imply that something happened between 8/27 and 8/29.

Then we get the enigmatic text to her family on 8/30 about no service in Yosemite. That was either a mistake that was meant to be "Yellowstone" or someone trying to throw people off that she was now in Yosemite.

The hitchhiker witness sounds credible to me. That would mean he was in Grand Teton on 8/30 and he was in North Port, Florida on 9/1. That is a 35 hour drive straight through. That is some heavy driving to do alone in two days. He was hightailing it out of there as fast as he could.

He didn't report anything about her. Her family didn't report her missing until 9/11.

Police are now searching the Spread Creek area around Yellowstone. That was on Gabby's itinerary of campgrounds. When they picked him up hitchhiking he said he was going to Jackson, but then wanted out at the Jackson Lake dam. He may have been lying and was actually trying to get to Spread Creek. He may have planned to go a bit south of there on 191 and then get out saying his fiancée was coming to pick him up or something, then hike back up to Spread Creek. Throw everybody off. But when they didn't take 191 and instead started on a different route to Jackson Hole, that foiled his plan and he had to get out.

It's a bit of a mystery why he was hitchhiking. Maybe he thought she would be reported missing when she was a no show with her friend 8/29. Maybe he decided to hide out in the woods to decide what todo. Or maybe planned to fake his own disappearance. After a day or two contemplating the complexities of that and no news reports of Gabby missing, he changes his mind and decides to get back to the van pronto and rush back to Florida.

crescent 18th September 2021 05:44 PM

They're also searching a nature preserve near where they live.

They'll have records of any gas purchases he made on the way home. Wyoming to Florida is going to be a number of gas stops. Some of those will produce security video.

DevilsAdvocate 18th September 2021 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crescent (Post 13603138)
They're also searching a nature preserve near where they live.

They'll have records of any gas purchases he made on the way home. Wyoming to Florida is going to be a number of gas stops. Some of those will produce security video.

They are searching the nature preserve for him because he has now gone missing. The van was found at his parent's home in Florida. They told police he would not talk on the advice of his lawyer and wouldn't say where he was. Now they say he went hiking at this nature preserve on Tuesday and never came back and have reported him to police as a missing person.

It probably doesn't matter how he got from Wyoming to Florida. It is possible that he didn't want her to meet her friend on 8/29 and took her phone away. And that she was still alive on 8/30. Maybe they decided to call the trip off and go back to Florida but along the way they got into a fight and he killed her. That could have happened anywhere from Wyoming to Florida. But it does seem more likely that he killed her somewhere around Grand Teton or Yellowstone.

DevilsAdvocate 18th September 2021 09:18 PM

I made a couple mistakes. The hitchhiker witness says they gave him a ride on 8/29, not 8/30.

Police have also said that they do not have their physical phones, but have access to phone tracking data, but it appears that at this point they only have access and not the actual data. Maybe. Reports are confusing.

Bob001 18th September 2021 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crescent (Post 13603138)
They're also searching a nature preserve near where they live.

They'll have records of any gas purchases he made on the way home. Wyoming to Florida is going to be a number of gas stops. Some of those will produce security video.

Only if he used credit cards. If I was on the run the first thing I'd do is put away the plastic.

Warp12 19th September 2021 05:23 AM

I know he is "missing"...but, I sort of wonder if he is hiding in the parent's home.

figarot 19th September 2021 05:31 AM

The area he's suspected to be hiding in is large, but I reckon he'll be found this month.

Sadly, it seems Gabby's folks and friends might not get to see her again.

JoeMorgue 19th September 2021 05:44 AM

50/50 chance they don't find him, they find his body

Gord_in_Toronto 19th September 2021 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13603579)
50/50 chance they don't find him, they find his body

Near water?

Darat 19th September 2021 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by figarot (Post 13603571)
The area he's suspected to be hiding in is large, but I reckon he'll be found this month.

Sadly, it seems Gabby's folks and friends might not get to see her again.

With a lack of memory.....

Mike! 19th September 2021 09:55 AM

I fear this is now going to become one of those sad and frustrating mysteries that never reaches a satisfactory conclusion, just an endless string of unresolved possibilities.

figarot 19th September 2021 11:31 AM

I've a hunch Brian may not be cooperative or forthcoming when/if found, and without him breaking down and saying all he knows, the last hope to know more about what happened would be for Gabby to be found.

eerok 19th September 2021 11:57 AM

Either Gabby snuck back and murdered Brian, or he's on the run.

Mike! 19th September 2021 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eerok (Post 13603943)
Either Gabby snuck back and murdered Brian, or he's on the run.

Since all we have to work with is speculation, how about this often used plot line...

They fight and he kills her in a fit of rage, then dumps her body over a bridge and beats feet home. Only he didn't kill her after all, and the fall from the bridge wasn't anywhere near enough to finish her off, so she wakes up the next day, beat up, but for the most part, okay. Now she discreetly works her way back home where she discovers she hasn't even been reported missing yet, so she lays low and observes how everything unfolds. Hating to watch her family suffer, she endures it knowing full well an opportunity will surely manifest itself if she is patient. One morning he inadvertently steps out alone and she ceases that moment to exact her revenge on him. (Insert gruesome torture/murder scene) Once that's finished, she'll deal with his family members who helped him hide his deed.

I mean, it could happen, right?

welshdean 19th September 2021 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike! (Post 13603956)
Since all we have to work with is speculation, how about this often used plot line...

They fight and he kills her in a fit of rage, then dumps her body over a bridge and beats feet home. Only he didn't kill her after all, and the fall from the bridge wasn't anywhere near enough to finish her off, so she wakes up the next day, beat up, but for the most part, okay. Now she discreetly works her way back home where she discovers she hasn't even been reported missing yet, so she lays low and observes how everything unfolds. Hating to watch her family suffer, she endures it knowing full well an opportunity will surely manifest itself if she is patient. One morning he inadvertently steps out alone and she ceases that moment to exact her revenge on him. (Insert gruesome torture/murder scene) Once that's finished, she'll deal with his family members who helped him hide his deed.

I mean, it could happen, right?

Only if her house is that last one, the on the left.

dudalb 19th September 2021 02:06 PM

This is one of those True Crime cases that puts crime fiction to shame.
Lots of places you can hide a Body in the Grand Teton area.Yes, there are a number of pricey resorrts in the area around the Teton peaks themsleves, bur get way from those and you are n the wilderness.

JoeMorgue 19th September 2021 02:35 PM

A body has been found in a national forest in Teton County, Wyoming, near the search area.

Press conference in about half an hour.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/19/us/ga...day/index.html

DevilsAdvocate 19th September 2021 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13604065)
A body has been found in a national forest in Teton County, Wyoming, near the search area.

Press conference in about half an hour.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/19/us/ga...day/index.html

They found her body in Spread Creek in Grand Teton National Park. FBI had no further information. So sad.

kevbo 19th September 2021 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13604065)
A body has been found in a national forest in Teton County, Wyoming, near the search area.

Press conference in about half an hour.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/19/us/ga...day/index.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate (Post 13604098)
They found her body in Spread Creek in Grand Teton National Park. FBI had no further information. So sad.

Thanks. I was about to post this as an update. Sad, but not unexpected. If it is her, the search for Laundrie will probably intensify.

DevilsAdvocate 19th September 2021 04:00 PM

I expect this will quickly turn into a murder investigation and things will escalate. Brian has either killed himself or is hiding.

DevilsAdvocate 19th September 2021 04:34 PM

A video was released earlier today showing the van next to Spread Creek. Some travel vloggers have a camera on their RV. They were going through their footage from a few weeks ago and found they had accidentally left the camera on and it had video of the van. The body was found about 300 yards from the van location, just across Spread Creek (which appear to be mostly dry right now and just a small stream).

kevbo 19th September 2021 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate (Post 13604137)
A video was released earlier today showing the van next to Spread Creek. Some travel vloggers have a camera on their RV. They were going through their footage from a few weeks ago and found they had accidentally left the camera on and it had video of the van. The body was found about 300 yards from the van location, just across Spread Creek (which appear to be mostly dry right now and just a small stream).

It is amazing to me how often serendipity plays a role in moving events forward. Something as innocuous as forgetting to turn off a camera provides a needed clue and evidence.

stanfr 19th September 2021 05:56 PM

Another interesting tidbit I pulled from their lone Youtube video at 6:41 (sorry can't link)
Brian is reading "Annihlation" by Jeff VanderMeer, I haven't read the book but some of the plot summary sounds like it could lead to some clues....

EDIT: ok a quick search reveals that half the internet has already jumped to various conclusions based on that book LOL.

theprestige 19th September 2021 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stanfr (Post 13604181)
Another interesting tidbit I pulled from their lone Youtube video at 6:41 (sorry can't link)
Brian is reading "Annihlation" by Jeff VanderMeer, I haven't read the book but some of the plot summary sounds like it could lead to some clues....

The plot summary doesn't even lead to clues about the story itself though.

DevilsAdvocate 19th September 2021 08:03 PM

My theory now is that they were sleeping in the van around Spread Creek. They got into an argument and he killed her in a fit of rage. He dragged her body across the creek. He gets dirty in the process. Then he went on a hike with plans to return and report that they had an argument and he went hiking to cool off and when he came back she had disappeared.

I would guess that would have been 8/27. That would give him two days to hike up to Colter Bay, which seems very doable. He uses the showers and laundry there. He hitches a ride.

He changes his mind about reporting her missing and decides to just go back to Florida. Maybe he was planning to go Jackson Hole Airport and fly back. Or maybe he may not have asked to go to Jackson and that was some kind of misunderstanding. Maybe he said he was going toward Jackson or they said they were going to Jackson and he said he was going that way as well and they misinterpreted that to mean he wanted to go to Jackson. He is expecting them to go down 191 where they can drop him off at the turnoff into Spread Creek or even take him right to the van. When they turn toward the dam to take the scenic route, he asked to get out there.

That's why he told the people giving him a lift that he had been hiking for a couple days and was trying to get back to his fiancée in their van who was working on their social media. He wanted to establish his story with someone else before he got back to the van.

That could seem like a good plan, but it has problems. Why would he offer to pay a bunch of money for a 10 mile trip back to his fiancée in the van when she has a van and can just pick him up?

For some reason he changes his mind. Maybe he realizes his story won't hold up. Or his family or lawyer tells him to definitely not call the cops and just get back to Florida immediately. Or maybe he just chickened out and panicked and decided to flee. I think he panicked.

stanfr 19th September 2021 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 13604182)
The plot summary doesn't even lead to clues about the story itself though.

I was just referring to the idea of missing/dead women, and how it might somehow relate to his frame of mind. But after considering it further, I agree it is probably not much use

stanfr 19th September 2021 08:34 PM

if he (or his attorney) is smart, he ought to be able to come up with some sort of self defense argument that might fly with a jury given her apparent mental instability. Which is why he is stupid to be hiding (unless he has killed himself--which is a distinct possibility)

DevilsAdvocate 19th September 2021 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stanfr (Post 13604277)
if he (or his attorney) is smart, he ought to be able to come up with some sort of self defense argument that might fly with a jury given her apparent mental instability. Which is why he is stupid to be hiding (unless he has killed himself--which is a distinct possibility)

The ironic thing is that he botched the dream scenario for the perfect murder. It's just him and his girl traveling the country to wilderness spots with no specific plans. No witnesses. In one of the largest remote wilderness areas of the country. Nobody knows where they might be. And she was on the razor's edge of getting tossed into jail for domestic violence a couple weeks earlier.

On self defense it would be his word against...nothing. Or he could hide the body anywhere. In that park, or really anywhere else. Go somewhere completely different and go for a hike and say she was missing when he came back. Nobody would even know where to look or would be able to falsify his story.

With what I think he was doing, he could have even stuck to that ride to Jackson Hole and flown back to Florida. Say they had a fight and agreed to not contact each other for a couple days (like in Moab) while she stays in the van and he goes hiking. He decided to call quits on the trip and flew to Florida.

He took what was possibly the best case scenario to get away with murder and made it almost impossible to believe that he did not commit murder.

eerok 19th September 2021 10:09 PM

He could claim that she just took off, and he was too heartbroken to talk to anyone about it. Pretty lame, but at this point he doesn't have a lot of narratives available.

DevilsAdvocate 19th September 2021 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eerok (Post 13604319)
He could claim that she just took off, and he was too heartbroken to talk to anyone about it. Pretty lame, but at this point he doesn't have a lot of narratives available.

That isn't going to work. Especially with what we know now.

For that narrative, I can't come up with a reasonable story. The van was beside the creek 8/27. He was at Colter Bay 8/29 hitching a ride and got out at the dam.

Even if we skip all that stuff, and even skip the content of the text from 8/30 saying "No service in Yosemite" which could have been a sort of typo for "Yellowstone". I make that mistake myself.

That would mean Gabby was at least saying she was in Yellowstone. Van was there 8/27. She texts 8/30. He was hitchhiking 8/29. Sometime after 8/29 6 PM he gets back to the van at Spread Creek. He is heartbroken. She takes off. He leaves her alone and does a marathon drive to do the 35 hour drive back to Florida in 2 days.

She walks about 200 meters from where they were and just coincidentally dies from...a bear attack? Lightning strike? Broken heart?

None of that happened. She didn't just "wander off" to die a couple hundred meters from where their van was.

eerok 19th September 2021 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate (Post 13604343)
None of that happened. She didn't just "wander off" to die a couple hundred meters from where their van was.

Oh I agree. I think he would've tried to strike a deal by now if he didn't want to just BS his way forward, though.

DevilsAdvocate 20th September 2021 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eerok (Post 13604346)
Oh I agree. I think he would've tried to strike a deal by now if he didn't want to just BS his way forward, though.

I think he didn't want to kill her. When he did, he thought about how he could get away with it by deception. Despite all the options, he didn't come up with a good plan. He got confused about his plans. He did different things. That is why they don't really make sense.

He eventually decided that he didn't want to go down the deception path. Too difficult. He panicked and just decided to flee. Get back home. Don't talk. Try to make it all go away.

When that didn't happen...flee. Just run away. Keep running away.


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