International Skeptics Forum

International Skeptics Forum (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/forumindex.php)
-   Social Issues & Current Events (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=82)
-   -   Continuation Cancel culture IRL Part 2 (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=354396)

ahhell 23rd September 2021 07:52 AM

Cancel culture IRL Part 2
 
Mod InfoContinuation thread from: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...6#post13608086
Posted By:Darat
Back on topic, cancel culture isn't really a problem for the rich and powerful, its the folks that aren't and that you haven't heard that get screwed by it. Folks like the security guard that got fired for being a racist for telling a Black student at smith college she wasn't allowed in a cafeteria where students weren't allowed. #blanking while working class

dirtywick 23rd September 2021 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham2001 (Post 13608034)
Just found an article on Spiked (usual warnings apply) covering this issue:





https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/0...ill-the-novel/

Well I think this is a good example of why portraying cancel culture some kind of leftist character assassination movement targeting political opponents isnít very accurate.

dirtywick 23rd September 2021 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahhell (Post 13608086)
Lots clearly did. Not having been born last week, I remember when some of those scientists were saying it was racist to even suspect the lab leak hypothesis.
Totally the same thing.

Its pretty clear, if Trump hadn't been saying Wuhan Flu, almost nobody would think it was racist. Personally, I think its fine but how about we call it the ChiCom flu or CCCP fever. The Chinese government is responsible for hundreds of thousand if not millions of deaths. Even if it didn't leak from the lab, they've spent a good part of the last two years obfuscating the origins of the disease. Oh wait, that was probably Trump.

Unless the uptick in violence against Asians in the US at the time was coincidental or attributed to another cause, I think itís hard to deny it the language used to describe the disease and the method it was being used was racist on some level. Therefore to me there was prudence in changing the language.

ahhell 23rd September 2021 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtywick (Post 13608105)
Unless the uptick in violence against Asians in the US at the time was coincidental or attributed to another cause, I think it’s hard to deny it the language used to describe the disease and the method it was being used was racist on some level. Therefore to me there was prudence in changing the language.

I've never actually seen evidence that there was such an uptick unrelated to the general uptick in crime at the same time.

Edit to add, there's basically no way to prove. Anti Asian hate crimes went from almost zero to some.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-a...tly-n-n1260264

Boudicca90 23rd September 2021 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lionking (Post 13607982)
Well Iím certain that people here would be interested why you are laughing out loudÖ..or maybe not.

Do you mind explaining.

Seriously? An abuser of women who essentially received a slap on the hand over it through being "cancelled" is complaining about being cancelled while receiving a lifetime achievement award.

Sure, that's cancelled... :rolleyes:

I used to be a big fan of his since his early Burton days, but Depp can go to hell.

phiwum 23rd September 2021 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahhell (Post 13608268)
I've never actually seen evidence that there was such an uptick unrelated to the general uptick in crime at the same time.

Edit to add, there's basically no way to prove. Anti Asian hate crimes went from almost zero to some.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-a...tly-n-n1260264

Um, from almost zero to some is an uptick, right? So how is there no way to prove [what?]?

dirtywick 23rd September 2021 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahhell (Post 13608268)
I've never actually seen evidence that there was such an uptick unrelated to the general uptick in crime at the same time.

Edit to add, there's basically no way to prove. Anti Asian hate crimes went from almost zero to some.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-a...tly-n-n1260264

They called it an uptick in the article and the number of Asian hate crimes did increase while the general hate crime rates actually fell. The article doesnít really dispute that in any way, but it does somewhat dispute the link to Trump. Like I said, not sure if itís Trumps rhetoric or not as a factor. If it was, I think changing the terminology is prudent.

But what I donít want to do is pretend Trump was doing it for for academic freedom in a syllabus or to be technically accurate or some other ridiculous reason. We all know exactly what he was doing and if youíd believe that I donít really have much to add besides I donít really want a part of that discussion since thereís no reasonable discussion to be had.

ahhell 23rd September 2021 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtywick (Post 13608307)
They called it an uptick in the article and the number of Asian hate crimes did increase while the general hate crime rates actually fell. The article doesnít really dispute that in any way, but it does somewhat dispute the link to Trump. Like I said, not sure if itís Trumps rhetoric or not as a factor. If it was, I think changing the terminology is prudent.

But what I donít want to do is pretend Trump was doing it for for academic freedom in a syllabus or to be technically accurate or some other ridiculous reason. We all know exactly what he was doing and if youíd believe that I donít really have much to add besides I donít really want a part of that discussion since thereís no reasonable discussion to be had.

Sure, he was attacking the ChiComs. So, there is no demonstrated link between trumps rhetoric and the tiny increase in the tiny number of reported hate crimes against Asian, but we should assume there is anyway. Was there anyone claiming that trump did it to defend academic freedom? You're right, there's no reason to keep talking about it.

ahhell 23rd September 2021 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phiwum (Post 13608299)
Um, from almost zero to some is an uptick, right? So how is there no way to prove [what?]?

To show a connection between said uptick and Trumps rhetoric. Its one of the most over hyped stories in the last decade. If anything it demonstrates how accepting of Asians the US is. There's probably more anti asian hate crimes in any random Asian country than in the US every year.

Total number of hate crimes against Asians, about the same as the total number decrease in hate crimes against Jews, about a 1% change.

https://www.npr.org/2021/08/31/10329...-than-a-decade

Literally more hate crimes against white people last year than against Asians. Should I blame that on Don Lemon's rhetoric? Black Lives Matter?

Darat 24th September 2021 02:54 AM

Bump to bring it to the top of the listings

Delphic Oracle 24th September 2021 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boudicca90 (Post 13608277)
Seriously? An abuser of women who essentially received a slap on the hand over it through being "cancelled" is complaining about being cancelled while receiving a lifetime achievement award.



Sure, that's cancelled... :rolleyes:



I used to be a big fan of his since his early Burton days, but Depp can go to hell.

"An abuser of women."

One woman claims so.

His former partners defend him. Police dispute Amber's descriptions of the broken glass in the kitchen, recall entirely different statements made by her in their presence, etc. The phone call is clear evidence of emotional manipulation/psychological abuse/gaslighting.

She has a couple of friends claiming they saw bruises, but that proves nothing.

My last partner ran her head into a doorframe on purpose after I literally fled the house when she started throwing things at me (complete with the wonderful "I wasn't actually trying to hit you" minimization/implied threat).

While I think his statements at the awards are eyeroll-worthy, you're literally doing what he's referring to!

One accuser who's claims are at odds with almost every scrap of evidence known to the public and you've decided he is not only guilty, but a repeat offender.

SuburbanTurkey 24th September 2021 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahhell (Post 13608090)
Mod InfoContinuation thread from: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...6#post13608086
Posted By:Darat
Back on topic, cancel culture isn't really a problem for the rich and powerful, its the folks that aren't and that you haven't heard that get screwed by it. Folks like the security guard that got fired for being a racist for telling a Black student at smith college she wasn't allowed in a cafeteria where students weren't allowed. #blanking while working class

Hey, if the gaggle of right wing hacks constantly crying about cancel culture find a way into backing into ending at-will employment (or even pro-union advocacy), I won't complain.

Of course, they love the idea of being able to get people fired for saying unpopular things, they just prefer that their own moral codes be enforced as opposed to others.

Darat 24th September 2021 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle (Post 13609352)
"An abuser of women."

One woman claims so.

His former partners defend him. Police dispute Amber's descriptions of the broken glass in the kitchen, recall entirely different statements made by her in their presence, etc. The phone call is clear evidence of emotional manipulation/psychological abuse/gaslighting.

She has a couple of friends claiming they saw bruises, but that proves nothing.

My last partner ran her head into a doorframe on purpose after I literally fled the house when she started throwing things at me (complete with the wonderful "I wasn't actually trying to hit you" minimization/implied threat).

While I think his statements at the awards are eyeroll-worthy, you're literally doing what he's referring to!

One accuser who's claims are at odds with almost every scrap of evidence known to the public and you've decided he is not only guilty, but a repeat offender.

Did you forget the court case?

Emily's Cat 24th September 2021 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13609372)
Did you forget the court case?

What did the court case conclude?

dirtywick 24th September 2021 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahhell (Post 13608495)
Sure, he was attacking the ChiComs. So, there is no demonstrated link between trumps rhetoric and the tiny increase in the tiny number of reported hate crimes against Asian, but we should assume there is anyway. Was there anyone claiming that trump did it to defend academic freedom? You're right, there's no reason to keep talking about it.

The link you provided discusses the possible link between Trump and the uptick in Asian hate crimes.

ahhell 24th September 2021 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtywick (Post 13609404)
The link you provided discusses the possible link between Trump and the uptick in Asian hate crimes.

And in no way demonstrated it. Its at best correlation. The correlation could also be, a virus from China caused both Trumps rhetoric and the uptick or it could all just be coincidental. Regardless the reported anti Asian hate crime in the US is so low as to be unable to prove anything other than there is very little anti-Asian hate crime in the US.

Dr. Keith 24th September 2021 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13609363)
Hey, if the gaggle of right wing hacks constantly crying about cancel culture find a way into backing into ending at-will employment (or even pro-union advocacy), I won't complain.

Of course, they love the idea of being able to get people fired for saying unpopular things, they just prefer that their own moral codes be enforced as opposed to others.

The biggest cancel culture scare monger I personally know is also the biggest advocate for at will employment. They literally canít see the connection and breathe at the same time.

phiwum 24th September 2021 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtywick (Post 13608307)
They called it an uptick in the article and the number of Asian hate crimes did increase while the general hate crime rates actually fell. The article doesnít really dispute that in any way, but it does somewhat dispute the link to Trump. Like I said, not sure if itís Trumps rhetoric or not as a factor. If it was, I think changing the terminology is prudent.

But what I donít want to do is pretend Trump was doing it for for academic freedom in a syllabus or to be technically accurate or some other ridiculous reason. We all know exactly what he was doing and if youíd believe that I donít really have much to add besides I donít really want a part of that discussion since thereís no reasonable discussion to be had.

Fine. I thought you were saying the uptick was doubtful and that confused me.

The absolute numbers were small for the few cities mentioned as I recall. I ain't got the statistical chops to know whether it was conceivably random. But I do think that the president's words matter especially when a portion of his supporters are so passionate. I think it's fair to say that Trump was reckless when he used racist terms (we all agree that "Kung Flu" was racist, right? ).

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

dirtywick 24th September 2021 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phiwum (Post 13609521)
Fine. I thought you were saying the uptick was doubtful and that confused me.

The absolute numbers were small for the few cities mentioned as I recall. I ain't got the statistical chops to know whether it was conceivably random. But I do think that the president's words matter especially when a portion of his supporters are so passionate. I think it's fair to say that Trump was reckless when he used racist terms (we all agree that "Kung Flu" was racist, right? ).

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

I agree that his language was irresponsible at best.

Dr. Keith 24th September 2021 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtywick (Post 13609545)
I agree that his language was irresponsible at best.

You misspelled PRESIDENTIAL.

smartcooky 25th September 2021 05:12 PM

Woohoo!! There's gonna be a whole crapload of cancellin' now...
 
... and it's gonna be epic!!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/techn...gn=wp_politics

Fallout begins for far-right trolls who trusted Epik to keep their identities secret
In the real world, Joshua Alayon worked as a real estate agent in Pompano Beach, Fla., where he used the handle 'SouthFloridasFavoriteRealtor' to urge buyers on Facebook to move to "the most beautiful State."

But online, data revealed by the massive hack of Epik, an Internet-services company popular with the far right, signaled a darker side. Alayonís name and personal details were found on invoices suggesting he had once paid for websites with names such as racisminc.com, whitesencyclopedia.com, christiansagainstisrael.com and theholocaustisfake.com.

After Alayonís name appeared in the breached data, his brokerage, Travers Miran Realty, dropped him as an agent, as first reported by the real estate news site Inman. The brokerageís owner, Rick Rapp, told The Washington Post that he didnít "want to be involved with anyone with thoughts or motives like that."
Epik, based outside Seattle, said in a data-breach notice filed with Maineís attorney general this week that 110,000 people had been affected nationwide by having their financial account and credit card numbers, passwords and security codes exposed.

Heidi Beirich, a veteran researcher of hate and extremism, said she is used to spending weeks or months doing "the detective work" trying to decipher who is behind a single extremist domain. The Epik data set, she said, "is like somebody has just handed you all the detective work ó the names, the people behind the accounts."

Now I do not support or condone the idea of hackers breaking into private databases... but in this case... BWHAHAHAHAHA!!!

SuburbanTurkey 26th September 2021 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smartcooky (Post 13610474)
... and it's gonna be epic!!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/techn...gn=wp_politics

Fallout begins for far-right trolls who trusted Epik to keep their identities secret
In the real world, Joshua Alayon worked as a real estate agent in Pompano Beach, Fla., where he used the handle 'SouthFloridasFavoriteRealtor' to urge buyers on Facebook to move to "the most beautiful State."

But online, data revealed by the massive hack of Epik, an Internet-services company popular with the far right, signaled a darker side. Alayonís name and personal details were found on invoices suggesting he had once paid for websites with names such as racisminc.com, whitesencyclopedia.com, christiansagainstisrael.com and theholocaustisfake.com.

After Alayonís name appeared in the breached data, his brokerage, Travers Miran Realty, dropped him as an agent, as first reported by the real estate news site Inman. The brokerageís owner, Rick Rapp, told The Washington Post that he didnít "want to be involved with anyone with thoughts or motives like that."
Epik, based outside Seattle, said in a data-breach notice filed with Maineís attorney general this week that 110,000 people had been affected nationwide by having their financial account and credit card numbers, passwords and security codes exposed.

Heidi Beirich, a veteran researcher of hate and extremism, said she is used to spending weeks or months doing "the detective work" trying to decipher who is behind a single extremist domain. The Epik data set, she said, "is like somebody has just handed you all the detective work ó the names, the people behind the accounts."

Now I do not support or condone the idea of hackers breaking into private databases... but in this case... BWHAHAHAHAHA!!!

There is going to be trickles of this for a long, long time. Reports was that the amount of data that was hacked is simply huge, and it's going to take a long time for the activists to comb through it all.

Emily's Cat 26th September 2021 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtywick (Post 13609545)
I agree that his language was irresponsible at best.

I'd go with irresponsible. I'd even rate it inappropriate.

Emily's Cat 26th September 2021 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smartcooky (Post 13610474)
... and it's gonna be epic!!

Now I do not support or condone the idea of hackers breaking into private databases... but in this case... BWHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13610665)
There is going to be trickles of this for a long, long time. Reports was that the amount of data that was hacked is simply huge, and it's going to take a long time for the activists to comb through it all.

How on earth do you not understand that these are the tactics of the inquisition and the nazi part?

Boudicca90 26th September 2021 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat (Post 13610855)
How on earth do you not understand that these are the tactics of the inquisition and the nazi part?

The inquisitors and Nazis were the ones who got their sensitive information leaked.

No sympathy here, and it is hilarious. :D

Darat 26th September 2021 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat (Post 13610855)
How on earth do you not understand that these are the tactics of the inquisition and the nazi part?

Unless I misunderstand you have it entirely backwards. This is telling the community who are the "nazis" in their midst.

Boudicca90 26th September 2021 10:57 AM

Back when Parler was still a thing, a bunch of Leftbook friends in an anitfascist group planned to infiltrate them and troll them. They backed off once they found out about requirements like sending a copy of your drivers license and other sensitive personal information.

It looked like the rubes that used the site didn't mind that, and they were shocked when all their info was stolen too. Even though they laid out the welcome mat for that to happen.

Emily's Cat 26th September 2021 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13610873)
Unless I misunderstand you have it entirely backwards. This is telling the community who are the "nazis" in their midst.

Selling out your neighbors and informing on people who hold the "wrong beliefs" is a good thing?

smartcooky 26th September 2021 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat (Post 13610890)
Selling out your neighbors and informing on people who hold the "wrong beliefs" is a good thing?

And this is the mistake you, and people like you, keep making. Its not about "wrong beliefs" and "right beliefs", its about what we should regard as acceptable in a humane, caring and civilized society, and what should be not acceptable. In short, its not about good v bad, its about good v evil!

The problem with the way people like you think is that you all draw an equivalence between being a white supremacist, nazi or fascist on one side and being a liberal or progressive or an inclusionist on the other. You seem to think they are the two sides to the same coin. THEY ABSOLUTELY ARE NOT! Racism and non-racism are not equal opposites; bigotry and non-bigotry are not equal opposites, white supremacy and racial equality are not equal opposites; fascism and democracy and not equal opposites. Fascism, racism, bigotry and white supremacy are inherently evil. They seek to oppress people for no reason other than hatred for anyone who isn't "like" them.

If any of these things were truly equal and opposite then neither could exist without the other - they would be mutually non-extant. This is not what we observe. Inclusionists ONLY exist because racists and bigots exist, if there was no racism, there would be no inclusionism because racial inequality wouldn't even be a thing. Similarly, Antifa exists ONLY because fascists exist; if there were no fascists, there would be no Antifa, because there would not be anything for them to fight against.

If fascists ever came to power in your country, it will be people like you, the enablers, those think everyone should be free to think and believe what they please in the name of "fair and balanced", regardless of whether it is evil or not, who will be the first ones lined up against the wall and shot. People like me, those speak out against racism and bigotry and white supremacy, will be next.

White supremacists, racists, bigots and fascists need to be called out at every turn, and every opportunity. They must be given no safe spaces in which to cultivate their evil. Cancel them... all of them!

... and yes. If, for example, I found out (and had clear evidence) that a neighbour of mine, say, a teacher, or a doctor or a nurse, and was running a white supremacist website, I would inform their employer in heartbeat! If my neighbour doesn't like it, tough! They are free to report me to my employer for being an inclusionist, and someone who believes in diversity and racial equality.

Darat 26th September 2021 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat (Post 13610890)
Selling out your neighbors and informing on people who hold the "wrong beliefs" is a good thing?

??

d4m10n 26th September 2021 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13610873)
Unless I misunderstand you have it entirely backwards. This is telling the community who are the "nazis" in their midst.

Which example of cancellation was about cryptonazism or something similar?

dirtywick 26th September 2021 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat (Post 13610890)
Selling out your neighbors and informing on people who hold the "wrong beliefs" is a good thing?

Personally I dont think you need the quotation marks if weíre talking about Holocaust denial.

If your neighbors found out you were running secret Holocaust denial and white supremacy sites and no longer want to associate with you, they have every right to feel that way.

Darat 27th September 2021 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat (Post 13610890)
Selling out your neighbors and informing on people who hold the "wrong beliefs" is a good thing?

That wasn't what the post you replied to was doing so it seems to a be a stream of non-sequiturs?

Darat 27th September 2021 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 13611044)
Which example of cancellation was about cryptonazism or something similar?

Did you quote the wrong post - your question has nothing to do with anything I've posted.

SuburbanTurkey 27th September 2021 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat (Post 13610855)
How on earth do you not understand that these are the tactics of the inquisition and the nazi part?

Sorry, trying to browbeat me into some diseased worldview where one is required to be agnostic on the merits of fascism or other genocidal ideologies is not going to work.

It's both hilarious and generally good that these people who thought they were safe to go mask-off fash are suddenly getting outed to their surrounding communities.

Graham2001 27th September 2021 05:21 AM

A Cancellation by the Right Wing...


Quote:

When professor Suzanne Jones’ contract came up for renewal at Texas’ Collin College, a public institution, she was a shoo-in. Faculty and administrators recommended her renewal: She was an “excellent faculty member” who earned “positive” evaluations from students and colleagues alike, kept her expertise in her field current, and had long shown commitment to the institution through “college service throughout” her decades of employment.

But that recommended renewal was “declined at the Senior Vice President level” with the support of President H. Neil Matkin. Senior administrators complained that Jones had gone outside of “normal channels of communication” due to a Facebook post she wrote about administrators’ response to COVID-19. Matkin, in writing, lamented that Jones was “encouraging members of our local community to contact me” about his plan to reopen during COVID-19 — a pandemic he had downplayed as “blown utterly out of proportion.” Administrators also complained that Jones had signed an open letter calling for the removal of Confederate memorials by including her name and professional background, just as other signatories did: “Suzanne Jones, education professor, Collin College.” And they complained that the local chapter of a non-bargaining union (Texas is a right-to-work state), which Jones helped to lead, used the college’s name without their permission.

https://www.thefire.org/collin-colle...d-19-response/

ponderingturtle 27th September 2021 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat (Post 13610855)
How on earth do you not understand that these are the tactics of the inquisition and the nazi part?

Worst thing to happen since that white supremacists teacher got caught out.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/05/us/da...rnd/index.html.


But its ok, she was just joking. Like with the OK symbol, its funny because she made us think she was anti-Semitic.

ponderingturtle 27th September 2021 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat (Post 13610890)
Selling out your neighbors and informing on people who hold the "wrong beliefs" is a good thing?

And refusing to do business with racists and bigots like those who infest the real estate business and in a coordinated fashion screw over black home owners is of course morally wrong. You are morally required to support nazi businesses.

ponderingturtle 27th September 2021 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtywick (Post 13611111)
Personally I dont think you need the quotation marks if weíre talking about Holocaust denial.

If your neighbors found out you were running secret Holocaust denial and white supremacy sites and no longer want to associate with you, they have every right to feel that way.

Don't you see that makes them even more nazi that merely running a nazi website and holding nazi ideals.

ponderingturtle 27th September 2021 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham2001 (Post 13611355)
A Cancellation by the Right Wing...





https://www.thefire.org/collin-colle...d-19-response/

Bah this is nothing like a nazi losing their job this is clearly reasonable and normal to many here.


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:06 AM.

Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2015-20, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.