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-   -   Roe v. Wade overturned -- this is some BS (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=359834)

Hercules56 14th July 2022 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13855577)
Well of course nobody should be raping children. But we can't have people disobeying abortion law based solely on their individual morality, either. Where do you draw the line on that?

I'm pretty sure that line extends pretty far when it comes to liberals.

Many people believe they have a God-given right to decide their own medical decisions without government intrusion. Especially if that intrusion has a religious basis.

JoeMorgue 14th July 2022 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13855577)
Well of course nobody should be raping children. But we can't have people disobeying abortion law based solely on their individual morality, either.

Yeah Democrats can't only obey the laws the feel like, who do they think they are Republicans?

Imagine being the kind of person who has to put a "but" after "Well of course nobody should be raping children."

Stacyhs 14th July 2022 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13855577)
Well of course nobody should be raping children. But we can't have people disobeying abortion law based solely on their individual morality, either. Where do you draw the line on that?

I'm pretty sure that line extends pretty far when it comes to liberals. After all, in some states it is legal to abort pretty much up to right before birth, even without medical cause (like VT). How can that be explained?

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...072e0da103.jpg

Hercules56 14th July 2022 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13855581)
Yeah Democrats can't only obey the laws the feel like, who do they think they are Republicans?

Imagine being the kind of person who has to put a "but" after "Well of course nobody should be raping children."

Forcing a 10 year old to go to term with a rapists baby, is ******* cruel and immoral.

What kind of services are the Republicans going to offer this poor child?

Free healthcare? Free childcare? Free college education? Free housing?

Naaaa, they will just let pull herself up by her bootstraps, like our ancient ancestors did on the Mayflower.

:(

JoeMorgue 14th July 2022 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hercules56 (Post 13855583)
Forcing a 10 year old to go to term with a rapists baby, is ******* cruel and immoral.

What kind of services are the Republicans going to offer this poor child?

Free healthcare? Free childcare? Free college education? Free housing?

Naaaa, they will just let pull herself up by her bootstraps, like our ancient ancestors did on the Mayflower.

:(

Okay but you're missing the bigger picture for many people.

Lookit how tweaked sane, non-psychopathic, non-evil people are about this?

This little girls suffering is worth it to them.

It's gone beyond "Tweaking the Libs" to "I get a minimal emotional reaction of any any good person just by being horrible and it's so much fun!"

Stacyhs 14th July 2022 12:54 PM

A FL rabbi is suing the state over their abortion law:

Quote:

Rabbi’s suit over Florida abortion law tests bounds of religious objections after Roe

“Judaism is in conflict with this law,” Rabbi Barry Silver of Congregation L’Dor Va-Dor said in an interview, explaining that Judaism supports abortions if necessary to protect the health and well-being of the mother. “We’d have to choose between practicing Judaism and this law — and if we go with Judaism, we risk criminal prosecution. I, as a rabbi, if I counsel someone to have an abortion, can be tossed in to jail.” Across the country, Jewish organizations had watched Florida’s Republican governor, Ron DeSantis, sign the abortion restriction into law in April with alarm. He chose to hold the signing ceremony at Nacion de Fe, an evangelical church in Kissimmee.
Quote:


“We absolutely see this as a violation of our religious freedom,” said Sheila Katz, CEO of the National Council of Jewish Women. “In the Jewish faith, the fetus having more rights than a living, breathing human woman or a person who can get pregnant is contradictory to our law and tradition.”
Quote:

“This is not neutral. It was announced at a church. It was motivated by religion,” said Silver, who practices law part time. “When we say we’re protecting a human being, that in and of itself is a religious claim. So they can lie and pretend all they want — it’s trying to impose a religious view of when life begins, and we’re not fooled.”
Read more at: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/pol...#storylink=cpy

JoeMorgue 14th July 2022 12:55 PM

Yeah they'll care about as much as that lady suing over the carpool lane.

They don't give a **** about a Rabbi's religious freedom.

Dumb All Over 14th July 2022 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13855566)
Yes, but to clarify for DAO: how many week/days a woman...or little girl, in this case...is pregnant depends on what method was used to determine it: the traditional method of counting the days from the last period or using an ultrasound.

The traditional method counts days of pregnancy when she is not even pregnant as conception takes places around two weeks after a menstrual cycle. So, using the traditional method, a 6 week old fetus is, in reality, only 4 weeks along in development.

Ultrasounds allow the doctor to measure from the "crown to rump" to more accurately determine how far along the pregnancy actually is with a 1 to 2 day leeway.

In the case of the Ohio little girl, she was NOT actually 6 weeks along, but 4, because Ohio uses the traditional method, not ultrasound:

"As used in sections 2919.16 to 2919.18 of the [Ohio] Revised Code:

(B) "Gestational age" or "gestation" means the age of an unborn child as calculated from the first day of the last menstrual period of a pregnant woman."

I do appreciate the conversation. Help me out a little bit more, please.

I think I am right by saying that insemination is not the same thing as conception or the beginning of a pregnancy, yes? I will assume so.

In this case, then, does the six-week/three-day time period refer to the date of insemination, conception, or something else? Same question for the four-week timeframe you mention, please.

Warp12 14th July 2022 12:58 PM

It is pretty wild to see people of faith demanding to be allowed to kill the unborn.

https://news.yahoo.com/unitarian-bud...8qD8biS6IXhRnu

Stacyhs 14th July 2022 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13855590)
Yeah they'll care about as much as that lady suing over the carpool lane.

They don't give a **** about a Rabbi's religious freedom.

But, but, but....I thought Christians loves them some Israel!

(Can the "Christian victimization" whine be far behind?)

ponderingturtle 14th July 2022 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13855593)
It is pretty wild to see people of faith demanding to be allowed to kill the unborn.

https://news.yahoo.com/unitarian-bud...8qD8biS6IXhRnu

Yea it is women who the religious are supposed to want to kill.

kookbreaker 14th July 2022 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dumb All Over (Post 13855592)
I do appreciate the conversation. Help me out a little bit more, please.

I think I am right by saying that insemination is not the same thing as conception or the beginning of a pregnancy, yes? I will assume so.

In this case, then, does the six-week/three-day time period refer to the date of insemination, conception, or something else? Same question for the four-week timeframe you mention, please.

Why does it matter? The state considered her pregnant for more than six weeks.

catsmate 14th July 2022 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shemp (Post 13855355)
OMFG I was wrong!? That's the first time that's ever happened! I shall now return to being perfect!

Me too. :thumbsup:

JoeMorgue 14th July 2022 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kookbreaker (Post 13855598)
Why does it matter? The state considered her pregnant for more than six weeks.

Because it's a distraction.

catsmate 14th July 2022 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dumb All Over (Post 13855519)
Not only that, but there are reports that Dr. Bernard is being disciplined by her employer for violating HIPAA laws. True? Untrue? Who knows?
Story

You're seriously quoting WorldNetDaily?
:rolleyes:

JoeMorgue 14th July 2022 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catsmate (Post 13855603)
You're seriously quoting WorldNetDaily?
:rolleyes:

Whale.to is too mainstream.

Stacyhs 14th July 2022 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dumb All Over (Post 13855592)
I do appreciate the conversation. Help me out a little bit more, please.

I think I am right by saying that insemination is not the same thing as conception or the beginning of a pregnancy, yes? I will assume so.

In this case, then, does the six-week/three-day time period refer to the date of insemination, conception, or something else? Same question for the four-week timeframe you mention, please.

Insemination is when the sperm is introduced. Sperm can live several days inside a woman's body so a sperm released a few days before ovulation or a day after can still fertilize the egg.

The time frame refers to the gestational age which is how Ohio determines when a pregnancy begins not the fetal age.

Hercules56 14th July 2022 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13855593)
It is pretty wild to see people of faith demanding to be allowed to kill the unborn.

https://news.yahoo.com/unitarian-bud...8qD8biS6IXhRnu

Sick how Republicans refuse to help the women they now will force to give birth.

Stacyhs 14th July 2022 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13855593)
It is pretty wild to see people of faith demanding to be allowed to kill the unborn.

https://news.yahoo.com/unitarian-bud...8qD8biS6IXhRnu

Not all people 'of faith' share the same beliefs. That's a fact some people have difficulty understanding.

Dumb All Over 14th July 2022 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kookbreaker (Post 13855598)
Why does it matter? The state considered her pregnant for more than six weeks.

The state considered her pregnant for more than six weeks? I missed that. The only thing I have read concerning the length of her pregnancy was the info from Dr. Bernard herself, not the state.

Would you mind offering a citation?

JoeMorgue 14th July 2022 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dumb All Over (Post 13855637)
The state considered her pregnant for more than six weeks? I missed that. The only thing I have read concerning the length of her pregnancy was the info from Dr. Bernard herself, not the state.

Would you mind offering a citation?

No. Nobody engage him until he explains what difference it makes or why it matters.

How long should a 10 year old rape victim have to stay pregnant? Give me a number or shut up and go away.

kookbreaker 14th July 2022 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dumb All Over (Post 13855637)
The state considered her pregnant for more than six weeks? I missed that. The only thing I have read concerning the length of her pregnancy was the info from Dr. Bernard herself, not the state.

Would you mind offering a citation?

Stacyhs literally explained why this was so. You even replied to the message with said explanation. You are owed no more.

Hercules56 14th July 2022 01:35 PM

The God of the Bible did not consider an unborn fetus to be a person, worthy of rights and protection as an independent human being.

Why should we?

shuttlt 14th July 2022 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hercules56 (Post 13855645)
The God of the Bible did not consider an unborn fetus to be a person, worthy of rights and protection as an independent human being.

Why should we?

I don't think the modern concept of rights is really a thing in the Bible.

JoeMorgue 14th July 2022 01:40 PM

Yeah yeah the ancient book that mentions unicorns 9 times and gives instructions on how to beat your slaves is a ****** place to get data or morals from, we all know.

Restriction abortion is all about controlling and punishing women. "What about da unborn babies" and the Bible are just excuses.

Warp12 14th July 2022 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13855654)
Restriction abortion is all about controlling and punishing women.


I hear this claim around here a lot. But I don't hear much evidence to support it.

Brainster 14th July 2022 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hercules56 (Post 13855548)
I think the decision was immoral and cruel. But legally correct.

Its not SCOTUS' fault that Congress has failed to codify abortion rights for more than 50 years. Even when Democrats had a supermajority in the Senate, they didn't do it. Lazy pricks.

They can't legislatively, because anything passed legislatively can be overturned by future legislatures. The only real way to codify abortion rights nationally is to pass an amendment to the Constitution, and that was never going to succeed.

The focus now should be on the states. Incidents like the 10-year-old rape victim having to cross state lines to get an abortion are strong indications that adjustments need to be made to the law. It may have been easy for Republican state politicians to write legislation on abortion back in the days when they knew it didn't matter because of Roe; now their feet are going to be held to the fire over cases like these.

Dumb All Over 14th July 2022 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kookbreaker (Post 13855644)
Stacyhs literally explained why this was so. You even replied to the message with said explanation. You are owed no more.

You said the state considered her pregnant for x amount of time. Show me.

JoeMorgue 14th July 2022 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13855658)
I hear this claim around here a lot. But I don't hear much evidence to support it.

You could of just said "I don't hear evidence" and stopped talking.

JoeMorgue 14th July 2022 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dumb All Over (Post 13855660)
You said the state considered her pregnant for x amount of time. Show me.

How long should a 10 year old rape victim be forced to stay pregnant? Answer the question.

Warp12 14th July 2022 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13855661)
You could of just said "I don't hear evidence" and stopped talking.


The claim around here goes something like, "they want to punish women for having sex.". It is a preposterous claim. As though no concept of morality exists beyond the sexual aspect of pregnancy/childbirth/human life.

Warp12 14th July 2022 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13855662)
How long should a 10 year old rape victim be forced to stay pregnant? Answer the question.


As long as is determined by law. Sorry, but that is your answer.

Hercules56 14th July 2022 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13855670)
As long as is determined by law. Sorry, but that is your answer.

Immoral laws don't have to be followed.

Warp12 14th July 2022 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hercules56 (Post 13855677)
Immoral laws don't have to be followed.


All I can say to that is, tell it to the courts.

Beelzebuddy 14th July 2022 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dumb All Over (Post 13855299)
Since this is the first time I have ever been wrong about anything in my entire life, I wasn't sure what I was supposed to do.

Speaking as someone who is wrong about most things all the time, the important thing is to understand how you came to be wrong, so that in the future you will be less wrong or wrong for a shorter amount of time. You don't need to show the class your work, just stop for a minute and think about the sources or arguments you found that agreed with you being wrong, and whether that should affect the credence you afford them in the future.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dumb All Over (Post 13855637)
The state considered her pregnant for more than six weeks? I missed that. The only thing I have read concerning the length of her pregnancy was the info from Dr. Bernard herself, not the state.

Would you mind offering a citation?

Choosing to nitpick the very next fact one runs across is not, in this case, an effective way of becoming less wrong overall.

kookbreaker 14th July 2022 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dumb All Over (Post 13855660)
You said the state considered her pregnant for x amount of time. Show me.

You have you explanation. Itís not anyoneís fault you canít do the math.

shemp 14th July 2022 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13855662)
How long should a 10 year old rape victim be forced to stay pregnant? Answer the question.

The next thing is, the GOP will try to force women to be pregnant LONGER than nine months.

Dumb All Over 14th July 2022 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kookbreaker (Post 13855686)
You have you explanation. Itís not anyoneís fault you canít do the math.

Stacyhs has been very patient with me and taken the time to help me understand the methodologies used by the State of Ohio to determine the length of a pregnancy as it pertains to their abortion laws, and for that I am grateful. You, on the other hand, have made an unsubstantiated claim as it relates to this particular case.

johnny karate 14th July 2022 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13855593)
It is pretty wild to see people of faith demanding to be allowed to kill the unborn.

https://news.yahoo.com/unitarian-bud...8qD8biS6IXhRnu

Almost as wild as it is to see conservatives who openly admit they don't care if poor people die try to claim moral high ground on any issue, ever.

Stacyhs 14th July 2022 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dumb All Over (Post 13855660)
You said the state considered her pregnant for x amount of time. Show me.

It was in the original post, I believe, but here it is again:

Quote:

Hours after the Supreme Court action, the Buckeye state had outlawed any abortion after six weeks. Now this doctor had a 10-year-old patient in the office who was six weeks and three days pregnant.
https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/...on/7788415001/


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