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-   -   White House Survivor (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=321828)

Norman Alexander 22nd March 2018 04:36 PM

It only needs one more high-level resignation to fix everything. Just one... ;)

dudalb 22nd March 2018 04:44 PM

I admit, I am beginning to hope for a Von Stauffenberg.

Norman Alexander 22nd March 2018 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 12229026)
I admit, I am beginning to hope for a Von Stauffenberg.

Except he didn't get the job done. Valiant effort, to be sure, but not a success.

I think you mean a John Wilkes Booth. But Donny doesn't go to the theater unless he is intending to buy the building and raze it for cheap condos.

dudalb 22nd March 2018 05:05 PM

And now Genghis John, the man who thinks the US needs to bomb a few countries to regain respect is the most powerful man in foreign policy.
I hope every one who voted for Trump rots in hell.

CapelDodger 22nd March 2018 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 12229053)
I hope every one who voted for Trump rots in hell.

I think quite a lot of people voted Trump because they have crappy lives.

Which is some consolation.

TheL8Elvis 22nd March 2018 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 12229053)
And now Genghis John, the man who thinks the US needs to bomb a few countries to regain respect is the most powerful man in foreign policy.
I hope every one who voted for Trump rots in hell.

QFT

Also - I think Kelly is next out the door.

phiwum 22nd March 2018 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis (Post 12229215)
QFT

Also - I think Kelly is next out the door.

Honestly, at this point, it shouldn't count of you're right. Might as well wager that water is wet.

TheL8Elvis 22nd March 2018 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phiwum (Post 12229226)
Honestly, at this point, it shouldn't count of you're right. Might as well wager that water is wet.

IDK, with Dowd gone I think it could just as easily be Session next ...

Norman Alexander 22nd March 2018 09:29 PM

Fascinating! Horrible...but still fascinating!

chrispy 22nd March 2018 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander (Post 12229291)
Fascinating! Horrible...but still fascinating!

Deleted for drunken candor

Hellbound 23rd March 2018 06:54 AM

I'm more worried that he seems to be replacing a lot of the staff with more pro-war picks. Having "Wag the Dog" thoughts about that, and that worries me.

I could see Trump starting a conflict somewhere to draw attention away from the numerous investigations and litigations at home.

alfaniner 23rd March 2018 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander (Post 12229291)
Fascinating! Horrible...but still fascinating!

That's pretty close to how I've described this entire administration.

pgwenthold 23rd March 2018 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hellbound (Post 12229693)
I'm more worried that he seems to be replacing a lot of the staff with more pro-war picks. Having "Wag the Dog" thoughts about that, and that worries me.

I could see Trump starting a conflict somewhere to draw attention away from the numerous investigations and litigations at home.

He's running the country like you'd run a business - by bringing in a bunch of war hawks.

The dumb thing is, he tried a bunch of business types. He learned they don't work out. So he goes back to the tried-and-true MO for the republicans - go to the military.

CORed 23rd March 2018 08:49 AM

I would say the Trump administration is a train wreck, but that would by unfairly insulting to train wrecks.

Dr. Keith 23rd March 2018 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CORed (Post 12229877)
I would say the Trump administration is a train wreck, but that would by unfairly insulting to train wrecks.

There were fine trains on both sides.

ddt 23rd March 2018 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 12229053)
And now Genghis John, the man who thinks the US needs to bomb a few countries to regain respect is the most powerful man in foreign policy.

You think he'll go for Iran first or for North Korea (or for ...)?

As to "most powerful man in foreign policy", shouldn't that be the Secretary of State?

Doubt 23rd March 2018 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddt (Post 12229990)
You think he'll go for Iran first or for North Korea (or for ...)?

As to "most powerful man in foreign policy", shouldn't that be the Secretary of State?

I am hoping he tries to sabotage Trump's meeting with NK leadership and ends up doing a Scaramoucci.

alfaniner 23rd March 2018 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doubt (Post 12230013)
I am hoping he tries to sabotage Trump's meeting with NK leadership and ends up doing a Scaramoucci.

Or a Fandango.

ddt 23rd March 2018 12:54 PM

He's just a poor boy?

Hellbound 23rd March 2018 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddt (Post 12230306)
He's just a poor boy?

Can't speak to that. But definitely easy come, easy go.

phiwum 23rd March 2018 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgwenthold (Post 12229726)
He's running the country like you'd run a business - by bringing in a bunch of war hawks.

The dumb thing is, he tried a bunch of business types. He learned they don't work out. So he goes back to the tried-and-true MO for the republicans - go to the military.

Not quite accurate, since he's getting rid of the generals because they didn't agree with him.

dudalb 23rd March 2018 02:04 PM

Some are suggesting that Putin will restrain Trump when it comes to Iran.
I am not so sure. Trump has a way of turning on his partners, and if he sees attacking Iran as a way of "Making America Great Again" he will ignore Putin on that issue.

dudalb 23rd March 2018 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddt (Post 12229990)
You think he'll go for Iran first or for North Korea (or for ...)?

As to "most powerful man in foreign policy", shouldn't that be the Secretary of State?

It should, but in the end it's who has the most influence with the President, and several times that has been a White House Advisor rather then the Secretary of State. Kissenger, back in the Nixon administration, was pretty much running foreign policy for a couple of years as National Security Advisor before moving into the Secretary of State position.
And I am sure this happens in other countries quite a bit as well...people who are advisors and outside the official chain of comman wield more power the people who on paper are their superiors. Examples run back all the way through history.
And it's not just government...it a common phenomenon in any large organization.

dudalb 23rd March 2018 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfaniner (Post 12229715)
That's pretty close to how I've described this entire administration.

It's that old Chinese Curse;

"May You Live In Interesting Times>'.

quadraginta 23rd March 2018 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 12230444)
Some are suggesting that Putin will restrain Trump when it comes to Iran.
I am not so sure. Trump has a way of turning on his partners, and if he sees attacking Iran as a way of "Making America Trump Great Again" he will ignore Putin on that issue.


FTFY.

dudalb 23rd March 2018 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quadraginta (Post 12230590)
FTFY.

I took it for a given that everybody knew that in Trump's mind; Trump equals America.

quadraginta 23rd March 2018 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 12230599)
I took it for a given that everybody knew that in Trump's mind; Trump equals America.


I don't think Trump gives a rat's ass about America. It can go to hell in a handbasket as long as he feels the adoration of his public. And since his public isn't and never has been "America", but always has been only a relatively small subset of its residents, he has little real interest in the overall welfare of the country.

Polaris 23rd March 2018 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 12230444)
Some are suggesting that Putin will restrain Trump when it comes to Iran.
I am not so sure. Trump has a way of turning on his partners, and if he sees attacking Iran as a way of "Making America Great Again" he will ignore Putin on that issue.

I have a ladyfriend in Tehran who just got married. I suggested to her that she take her honeymoon in Thailand and simply stay there until at least 2020.

Quote:

Originally Posted by quadraginta (Post 12230668)
I don't think Trump gives a rat's ass about America. It can go to hell in a handbasket as long as he feels the adoration of his public. And since his public isn't and never has been "America", but always has been only a relatively small subset of its residents, he has little real interest in the overall welfare of the country.

IMHO one of the biggest problems with this mess is that Trump is merely a symptom of a group of people who see themselves as the real Americans, with everybody else as less American or not American at all, due to race, religion or ethnicity. And now their champion is in the Oval Office.

Doubt 24th March 2018 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polaris (Post 12230684)
IMHO one of the biggest problems with this mess is that Trump is merely a symptom of a group of people who see themselves as the real Americans, with everybody else as less American or not American at all, due to race, religion or ethnicity. And now their champion is in the Oval Office.

Frightened old white men cannot last forever. Numbers are not going to favor them in the long run. Some of them will start to look for something new once Trump falls. Unfortunately some of them will get even more scared and willing to try anything to keep "their" country.

The antidote is more young people registering to vote.

alfaniner 24th March 2018 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doubt (Post 12231300)
Frightened old white men cannot last forever. Numbers are not going to favor them in the long run. Some of them will start to look for something new once Trump falls. Unfortunately some of them will get even more scared and willing to try anything to keep "their" country.

The antidote is more young people registering to vote.

I think what's happening today will have a large effect. (March for Our Lives)

dudalb 24th March 2018 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doubt (Post 12231300)
Frightened old white men cannot last forever. Numbers are not going to favor them in the long run. Some of them will start to look for something new once Trump falls. Unfortunately some of them will get even more scared and willing to try anything to keep "their" country.

The antidote is more young people registering to vote.

The problem is how much damage can be done in the mean time.
Hitler eventually fell, but not before he did enormous damage and killed Millions of people.

dudalb 24th March 2018 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfaniner (Post 12231318)
I think what's happening today will have a large effect. (March for Our Lives)

I hope, even though I might not agree with the protestors on every point.
But what needs to happen is for this movement to become more then just about gun violence. I would live to see this kind of response if Trump does fire Mueller, for instance. It would be tragic if this becomes an one issue movement.

PhantomWolf 24th March 2018 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doubt (Post 12231300)
Frightened old white men cannot last forever. Numbers are not going to favor them in the long run. Some of them will start to look for something new once Trump falls. Unfortunately some of them will get even more scared and willing to try anything to keep "their" country.

The antidote is more young people registering to vote.

One of the issues is that there are a lot of angry young white men too.

Young people aren't all as open minded and ready for diversity as we'd like. There are a lot of young bigots, often raised and taught by those frightened old white men to hate just as much as they do.

acbytesla 24th March 2018 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doubt (Post 12231300)
Frightened old white men cannot last forever. Numbers are not going to favor them in the long run. Some of them will start to look for something new once Trump falls. Unfortunately some of them will get even more scared and willing to try anything to keep "their" country.

The antidote is more young people registering to vote.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf (Post 12231677)
One of the issues is that there are a lot of angry young white men too.

Young people aren't all as open minded and ready for diversity as we'd like. There are a lot of young bigots, often raised and taught by those frightened old white men to hate just as much as they do.

Not as many as there was. I grant you, there are still too many, but believe me there are far fewer. The integration of races in urban areas has had a significant impact. The problem is in the very white rural areas.

PhantomWolf 24th March 2018 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acbytesla (Post 12231715)
Not as many as there was. I grant you, there are still too many, but believe me there are far fewer. The integration of races in urban areas has had a significant impact. The problem is in the very white rural areas.

True, but the other problem is how the US system is setup. As the more liberal minded people move to the cities, then the scales of representation tip further into the hands of the lesser numbers of rural America.

A State has two Senators regardless of how many people it has, so the people of massive States with large urban populations such as N.Y, Florida, and Cali have far less representation that smaller much more rural States such as Wyoming, Vermont, and Alaska.

On top of that the House of Representatives have a similar issue, especially if Gerrymandering is able to be continued (though considering the latest court cases it might be on the endangered list.)

It's going to make it hard to really change things when representation isn't proportional to the actual overall population.

Doubt 24th March 2018 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf (Post 12231677)
One of the issues is that there are a lot of angry young white men too.

Young people aren't all as open minded and ready for diversity as we'd like. There are a lot of young bigots, often raised and taught by those frightened old white men to hate just as much as they do.

As already stated, not as many as you think. Also young people in general tend not to vote. But we now see one segment of them mobilizing now.

In the rural areas where the young and angry are more likely to be found you also find a lot of meth heads. Same segment of the population. Even if they are registered to vote the won't show up.

acbytesla 24th March 2018 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf (Post 12231730)
True, but the other problem is how the US system is setup. As the more liberal minded people move to the cities, then the scales of representation tip further into the hands of the lesser numbers of rural America.

A State has two Senators regardless of how many people it has, so the people of massive States with large urban populations such as N.Y, Florida, and Cali have far less representation that smaller much more rural States such as Wyoming, Vermont, and Alaska.

On top of that the House of Representatives have a similar issue, especially if Gerrymandering is able to be continued (though considering the latest court cases it might be on the endangered list.)

It's going to make it hard to really change things when representation isn't proportional to the actual overall population.

Nobody knows this better than me. But I really think in the long run the advantage wont last.

Norman Alexander 28th March 2018 06:54 PM

Who had David Shulkin, Secretary of Vererans Affairs?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ned/382984002/

phiwum 28th March 2018 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander (Post 12236660)
Who had David Shulkin, Secretary of Vererans Affairs?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ned/382984002/

Me! I mean I didn't post it, but I totally thought it, honest.

What did I win?

Actually, I thought a lot of the other guys too.

And is it too late to say Kelly, eventually? Not this week or the next but some time before Trump leaves office? Pretty sure bet.

Same with DeVos. And what's her name in the CIA, if she's approved.

ETA: how about everyone but Bolton?

Norman Alexander 28th March 2018 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phiwum (Post 12236699)
Me! I mean I didn't post it, but I totally thought it, honest.

What did I win?

Actually, I thought a lot of the other guys too.

And is it too late to say Kelly, eventually? Not this week or the next but some time before Trump leaves office? Pretty sure bet.

Same with DeVos. And what's her name in the CIA, if she's approved.

ETA: how about everyone but Bolton?

Kelly is an easy bet. Only variable is when.


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