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-   -   The Marjorie Taylor Greene thread. (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=347945)

wasapi 3rd January 2022 10:56 AM

This - creature - is obviously insane. I would like to see her permanently banned from - well, everywhere.

The Great Zaganza 3rd January 2022 11:02 AM

using your platform as a Representative to spread anti-vax propaganda is a clear violation of her Oath of Office, and she should be sanctioned for it: it's not in the interest of her constituents to die avoidably of covid, nor does it help her district to flood the hospitals.

JoeMorgue 3rd January 2022 11:06 AM

It's why trolls on the Right and their enablers in general discourse has tried frame every discussion about how comically to the point of absurdly wrong they are as a "free speech" argument.

Everything is about "their right' to say this or that and never about how functionally wrong and dangerous as misinformation it is.

It's always why everything is "an opinion."

Norman Alexander 3rd January 2022 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13693772)
It's why trolls on the Right and their enablers in general discourse has tried frame every discussion about how comically to the point of absurdly wrong they are as a "free speech" argument.

Everything is about "their right' to say this or that and never about how functionally wrong and dangerous as misinformation it is.

It's always why everything is "an opinion."

At the risk of Godwinning...

Then Chamberlain's "peace in our time" speech was just "an opinion" about European stability at the time. As was his declaration of war shortly after just "an opinion" about British government policy. So was Churchill's "we shall never surrender" outburst. The Final Solution was simply acquiescence to Der Fuhrer's "opinions" about "the Jewish problem". Kennedy's space-race speech, MLK's "I have a dream" speech...just opinions. All these opinions were just so much talk, and nothing ever came of them, remember?

Words matter. MTG's "opinions" are not dismissible. She is a vile and ignorant piece of work, and letting her just continue to spew her hatreds is not "free speech". It's hate speech. I do believe there's laws against this.

kevbo 3rd January 2022 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wasapi (Post 13693765)
This - creature - is obviously insane. I would like to see her permanently banned from - well, everywhere.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander (Post 13693900)
At the risk of Godwinning...

Then Chamberlain's "peace in our time" speech was just "an opinion" about European stability at the time. As was his declaration of war shortly after just "an opinion" about British government policy. So was Churchill's "we shall never surrender" outburst. The Final Solution was simply acquiescence to Der Fuhrer's "opinions" about "the Jewish problem". Kennedy's space-race speech, MLK's "I have a dream" speech...just opinions. All these opinions were just so much talk, and nothing ever came of them, remember?

Words matter. MTG's "opinions" are not dismissible. She is a vile and ignorant piece of work, and letting her just continue to spew her hatreds is not "free speech". It's hate speech. I do believe there's laws against this.

I agree with all of this.

gnome 3rd January 2022 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander (Post 13693900)
Words matter. MTG's "opinions" are not dismissible. She is a vile and ignorant piece of work, and letting her just continue to spew her hatreds is not "free speech". It's hate speech. I do believe there's laws against this.

Honestly there is no "hate speech" distinction in free speech principles.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...-using/596506/

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken "Popehat" White
"Hate speech is not free speech."

There is an admirable growing social consensus that it’s despicable to denigrate people based on ethnicity, religion, or sexuality. But most despicable speech is protected by the First Amendment. Contrary to the popular slogan, there is no hate-speech exception to the First Amendment. Particular examples of hateful speech may satisfy the established tests for the true-threats or incitement exceptions, but they’re not unprotected just because they’re hateful.

The guiding principle here in the MTG-Twitter situation is that free speech laws restrict the government, not private entities.

kevbo 3rd January 2022 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnome (Post 13694013)
Honestly there is no "hate speech" distinction in free speech principles.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...-using/596506/



The guiding principle here in the MTG-Twitter situation is that free speech laws restrict the government, not private entities.

You are correct. But I believe some places are using a history of hate-speech to allow charges of hate-crimes to be brought against an individual that commits or incites a crime. So, not for the speech itself as a crime, but as a mitigating factor. MTG, like her idol Donnie, gets real close sometimes to incitement, in my view.

Jim_MDP 4th January 2022 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevbo (Post 13694031)
You are correct. But I believe some places are using a history of hate-speech to allow charges of hate-crimes to be brought against an individual that commits or incites a crime. So, not for the speech itself as a crime, but as a mitigating factor. MTG, like her idol Donnie, gets real close sometimes to incitement, in my view.

Then they're both fine.

AIUI, barring future precedent or adjustment... hate speech laws reference "protected classes", usually less defended and/or minority persons, not "sane people"... though we could join either group quite soon if things keep up. [emoji3525]

Crap... that's too maudlin even for me.
Barkeep! [emoji1]

Segnosaur 4th January 2022 12:13 PM

An... interesting... feud...

From: Yahoo News
Rep. Dan Crenshaw (R-Texas) said Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.) is either a Democrat or an “idiot” as the war of words between the two intensified. Last week, Crenshaw called on President Joe Biden to use the Federal Emergency Management Agency to help with coronavirus testing and aid hospitals....Greene, a conspiracy theorist who has downplayed the virus, dismissed omicron as “sneezes, coughs and runny noses” and attacked Crenshaw for the suggestion.

Sorry Crenshaw... MTG is not "a democrat". She is a republican. Her voter base is largely your voter base. She probably shares virtually all of the same policy goals that you do. You voted for Trump ~99% of the time (i.e. the one who seems to be behind much of the current chaos). Unless you are actually willing to do something about MTG and Trump, you cannot absolve yourself from those people.

JoeMorgue 4th January 2022 12:17 PM

Making big shows of infighting.... whenever it doesn't actually matter.... is something the Right is annoyingly good at.

plague311 4th January 2022 01:38 PM

What an awesome headline:

What does Marjorie Taylor Greene do all day?

It might shock you to learn this, and I can save you some time, but she doesn't do anything.

JoeMorgue 4th January 2022 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plague311 (Post 13695043)
What an awesome headline:

What does Marjorie Taylor Greene do all day?

It might shock you to learn this, and I can save you some time, but she doesn't do anything.

The problem is this sort "Don't anything but obstructionism and trolling" thing sells really well to the "We deserve to be punished for letting the government get too big" crowd.

The sad part is "Someone in Congress who sits around twiddling their thumbs except for harassing other Congressmembers and just being a contrarian douche canoe" is a feature, not a bug, to a lot of people on the Right.

Resume 4th January 2022 03:24 PM

What does Marjorie Taylor Greene do all day?

Grift.

Jim_MDP 4th January 2022 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resume (Post 13695166)
What does Marjorie Taylor Greene do all day?

Grift.

The sad part? She may not actually see it that way.
Many of her constituents don't seem to. [emoji3525]
And jebus knows... she's not the only such critter on the hill.

Stacyhs 5th January 2022 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim_MDP (Post 13695176)
The sad part? She may not actually see it that way.
Many of her constituents don't seem to. [emoji3525]
And jebus knows... she's not the only such critter on the hill.

Thus the saying: A fool and his money are soon parted.

Warp12 5th January 2022 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13693446)
I hate to break it to her but Trump had the Senate and the presidency when he was kicked off Twitter. They couldn't do anything about it then and they won't be able to do anything about it in 2022 when Biden l is still in office.

It's not like the GOP has to play the extra-long game, here. If they gain control of both the house and senate this year, that is going to be a very good spot to be in...especially when you consider that Biden and Harris are still top contenders for the biggest losers of 2024.

The thing is, I don't really see Twitter and FB being the major focus when that level of control is gained. There are much bigger fish to fry, at that point. And that pan will be nicely heated, by then.

The Great Zaganza 5th January 2022 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13695486)
It's not like the GOP has to play the extra-long game, here. If they gain control of both the house and senate this year, that is going to be a very good spot to be in...especially when you consider that Biden and Harris are still top contenders for the biggest losers of 2024.

The thing is, I don't really see Twitter and FB being the major focus when that level of control is gained. There are much bigger fish to fry, at that point. And that pan will be nicely heated, by then.

enlighten me: what do you think Republicans WILL do if they hold Congress?
Not what they should do, but what you actually predict they will?

Warp12 5th January 2022 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13695486)
It's not like the GOP has to play the extra-long game, here. If they gain control of both the house and senate this year, that is going to be a very good spot to be in...especially when you consider that Biden and Harris are still top contenders for the biggest losers of 2024.

The thing is, I don't really see Twitter and FB being the major focus when that level of control is gained. There are much bigger fish to fry, at that point. And that pan will be nicely heated, by then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza (Post 13695493)
enlighten me: what do you think Republicans WILL do if they hold Congress?
Not what they should do, but what you actually predict they will?

With the Presidency, House, Senate, and Supreme Court locked up? The sky is the limit. So many possibilities. :)

The Don 5th January 2022 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13695498)
With the Presidency, House, Senate, and Supreme Court locked up? The sky is the limit. So many possibilities. :)

That was the position that President Trump was in, but didn't manage to achieve many of his key policies like the repeal of the ACA, the building of the Southern Wall (and getting Mexico to pay for it), improving the US balance of payments (especially w.r.t. China) and so on.

What are the headline GOP policies for 2024 and how will they actually go about passing the required legislation ?

The Great Zaganza 5th January 2022 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13695498)
With the Presidency, House, Senate, and Supreme Court locked up? The sky is the limit. So many possibilities. :)

So give an example of what you believe Republicans will do.

Warp12 5th January 2022 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13695501)
That was the position that President Trump was in, but didn't manage to achieve many of his key policies like the repeal of the ACA, the building of the Southern Wall (and getting Mexico to pay for it), improving the US balance of payments (especially w.r.t. China) and so on.

What are the headline GOP policies for 2024 and how will they actually go about passing the required legislation ?

I feel as though the political climate is a lot different now, and more aggressive. I think there will be some payback in mind. I can't predict the future, but I see some retaliatory legislation being passed.

I hope the GOP has a more savvy operator than Trump, by that point.

The Great Zaganza 5th January 2022 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13695509)
I feel as though the political climate is a lot different now, and more aggressive. I think there will be some payback in mind. I can't predict the future, but I see some retaliatory legislation being passed.

I hope the GOP has a more savvy operator than Trump, by that point.

examples?

The Don 5th January 2022 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13695509)
I feel as though the political climate is a lot different now, and more aggressive. I think there will be some payback in mind. I can't predict the future, but I see some retaliatory legislation being passed.

I hope the GOP has a more savvy operator than Trump, by that point.

More aggressive than a GOP purely focused on obstructionism and prepared to overturn a legitimate election result through lies and violence ? :confused:

What kind of retaliatory legislation do you have in mind ? Making it illegal to be a member of the Democratic Party ? Wholesale disenfranchisement of people likely to vote Democrat ? De-funding of blue states ?

Warp12 5th January 2022 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza (Post 13695511)
examples?

Let your imagination run wild. Do you really think it is a promising position for Dems to be in? I like the idea of the Dems just rolling over, and pretending it is no big deal, though.

We all know the major political talking points. By 2024, Dems will have been lobbing those stones hard, for 8 years. And the GOP response, if they have that level of control, will likely be legendary.

The Great Zaganza 5th January 2022 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13695514)
Let your imagination run wild. Do you really think it is a promising position for Dems to be in? I like the idea of the Dems just rolling over, and pretending it is no big deal, though.

We all know the major political talking points. By 2024, Dems will have been lobbing those stones hard, for 8 years. And the GOP response, if they have that level of control, will likely be legendary.

Do you realize that when asked what you think Republicans will do, you instead evade and talk about what Democrats have done?

Could it be that you can't actually think of an actual Republican agenda beyond denying Democrats any win?

Captain_Swoop 5th January 2022 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13695514)
Let your imagination run wild. Do you really think it is a promising position for Dems to be in? I like the idea of the Dems just rolling over, and pretending it is no big deal, though.

We all know the major political talking points. By 2024, Dems will have been lobbing those stones hard, for 8 years. And the GOP response, if they have that level of control, will likely be legendary.

Arrests of political opponents? Outlawing political parties? Executions? Restricting voting rights for people of the wrong ethnicity? Return of slavery? Expulsion of immigrants?

Give us a clue?

Crossbow 5th January 2022 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plague311 (Post 13695043)
What an awesome headline:

What does Marjorie Taylor Greene do all day?

It might shock you to learn this, and I can save you some time, but she doesn't do anything.

When that stupid, idiotic, lying, greedy, POS Trump was in the White House, then he usually had large blocks of free time available every day that he would spend watching TV and surfing the Internet.

His staff called these absences "Executive Time".

I expect that stupid, idiotic, lying, greedy, POS Greene does the same sort of thing when she is in her Congressional office.

Warp12 5th January 2022 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza (Post 13695520)
Do you realize that when asked what you think Republicans will do, you instead evade and talk about what Democrats have done?

Could it be that you can't actually think of an actual Republican agenda beyond denying Democrats any win?

I like how the focus is on what some internet rando predicts the impending onslaught could be. Not even denying the impending doom. Ass up, basically.

It's like asking, how will they lay it to us? Piledriver style, inverted reverse cowgirl, or maybe while we eat from a dog dish labeled with ancient Hebrew text?

JoeMorgue 5th January 2022 06:30 AM

When was the last time any Republican (including all "I'm totally not a Republican because I parrot the 'Both Sides are the Same' lie Republicans) actually answered a question or made a point?

Crazy Chainsaw 5th January 2022 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13695514)
Let your imagination run wild. Do you really think it is a promising position for Dems to be in? I like the idea of the Dems just rolling over, and pretending it is no big deal, though.

We all know the major political talking points. By 2024, Dems will have been lobbing those stones hard, for 8 years. And the GOP response, if they have that level of control, will likely be legendary.

How will Republicans explain away putting a Russian useful idiot who takes advise from conspiracy theorists, in the White House in 2024 along with Trumpsters obvious racism?

Crossbow 5th January 2022 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13695652)
When was the last time any Republican (including all "I'm totally not a Republican because I parrot the 'Both Sides are the Same' lie Republicans) actually answered a question or made a point?

Some people are quite able to volumes of text without actually saying anything.

Or as the 'Straw Man' said in the Wizard of Oz:

"Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking!"

carlitos 5th January 2022 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13695652)
When was the last time any Republican (including all "I'm totally not a Republican because I parrot the 'Both Sides are the Same' lie Republicans) actually answered a question or made a point?

Governing is hard. Trolling is easy.

Jim_MDP 5th January 2022 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13695617)
I like how the focus is on what some internet rando predicts the impending onslaught could be. Not even denying the impending doom. Ass up, basically.

It's like asking, how will they lay it to us? Piledriver style, inverted reverse cowgirl, or maybe while we eat from a dog dish labeled with ancient Hebrew text?

Stop being silly.
You said you "don't predict the future" but that exactly what you did. Take it one step further and give us a few targets you think would get the GOP treatment.
For myself, I'd expect retaliation against the big player social media entities. Surely FB and the Twit would be on the chopping block, though how they'd bend the law and constitution to do it I couldn't say. Won't stop them trying.

(See how easy that was?)

JoeMorgue 5th January 2022 08:21 AM

Who the **** is "predicting the future?"

Her trolling happened in the past and is currently happening in the present.

The Capital Insurrection actually happened, it's not some theoretical thing we're talking about maybe happening if things don't get better.

I await yet another round of trolling with no answer, no point, and no actual response.

SuburbanTurkey 5th January 2022 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim_MDP (Post 13695739)
Stop being silly.
You said you "don't predict the future" but that exactly what you did. Take it one step further and give us a few targets you think would get the GOP treatment.
For myself, I'd expect retaliation against the big player social media entities. Surely FB and the Twit would be on the chopping block, though how they'd bend the law and constitution to do it I couldn't say. Won't stop them trying.

(See how easy that was?)

Maybe the government should nationalize these service providers to ensure the social good. Some sort of National Socialism policy, we can work on the name later.

catsmate 5th January 2022 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnome (Post 13694013)
Honestly there is no "hate speech" distinction in free speech principles.

Incorrect. There is no such distinction is one aspect of US law.
The First Amendment to the US Constitution applies only to the Federal government in the USA.

The Great Zaganza 5th January 2022 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13695617)
I like how the focus is on what some internet rando predicts the impending onslaught could be. Not even denying the impending doom. Ass up, basically.

It's like asking, how will they lay it to us? Piledriver style, inverted reverse cowgirl, or maybe while we eat from a dog dish labeled with ancient Hebrew text?

potty mouth is not a replacement for information.

you still haven't said what the Republican agenda actually would be except in the most general, least informative way.
Which supports my belief that you have no idea what the GOP actually stands for.

eerok 5th January 2022 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza (Post 13695810)
you have no idea what the GOP actually stands for.

Get Outta Politics? (I know it doesn't, but it should.)

bruto 5th January 2022 10:44 AM

I imagine an honest Republican could say outright that the goal is to abolish democratic voting rights, glorify pollution, make the two party system a sham, establish a theocracy and reverse recent advances in human rights. Of course that's kind of embarrassing to say outright. So they settle for name calling, waving their Bibles, refining the tone of the supremacist dog whistle, and alleging that anyone who disagrees with them is a communist, a traitor and a fool.

They're doing pretty well at it, and with luck it will get them in and they can continue with the worthy and thankless task of making the lives of their opponents as unpleasant as possible on what remains of the earth's dwindling life.

mgidm86 5th January 2022 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza (Post 13695493)
enlighten me: what do you think Republicans WILL do if they hold Congress?
Not what they should do, but what you actually predict they will?

Since you can't get an answer (shock I know), how about what the folks on the right would want to happen. I'd love to hear it because as I said before, all they seem to do is hate the left while offering nothing.

What do y'all want the Republicans to do if they regain control? Make a list.

shemp 5th January 2022 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgidm86 (Post 13695945)
Since you can't get an answer (shock I know), how about what the folks on the right would want to happen. I'd love to hear it because as I said before, all they seem to do is hate the left while offering nothing.

What do y'all want the Republicans to do if they regain control? Make a list.

Walk off a cliff en masse like lemmings.*

* Yes, I'm aware that lemmings don't really do this.

JoeMorgue 5th January 2022 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgidm86 (Post 13695945)
What do y'all want the Republicans to do if they regain control?

Stop being intentionally and deliberately wrong and evil for the sole purpose of getting back at a lie-based false version of what the Democrats are by destroying the very country.

When exactly did it get so bad that that's some sort of unreasonable expectation?

shemp 5th January 2022 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13695958)
Stop being intentionally and deliberately wrong and evil for the sole purpose of getting back at a lie-based false version of what the Democrats are by destroying the very country.

When exactly did it get so bad that that's some sort of unreasonable expectation?

It may have begun with the Iran-Contra scandal. They found they could pull off this kind of **** and Democrats couldn't do anything about it. It's been a slippery slope all the way since.

Lurch 5th January 2022 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13695484)
Thus the saying: A fool and his money are soon parted.

And (here I go again ;) ): A People gets the Government it deserves.

mgidm86 5th January 2022 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13695958)
Stop being intentionally and deliberately wrong and evil for the sole purpose of getting back at a lie-based false version of what the Democrats are by destroying the very country.

When exactly did it get so bad that that's some sort of unreasonable expectation?


I agree with you and Shemp. Waiting for the conservatives to answer this question.

Stacyhs 7th January 2022 03:29 AM

MTG on Twitter today: 1776!

Quote:

George Takei
@GeorgeTakei

17h
Fun fact: If you say “Marjorie Taylor Greene” three times in front of a mirror, she still won’t appear on your Twitter feed.

Carrot Flower King 7th January 2022 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shemp (Post 13695965)
It may have begun with the Iran-Contra scandal. They found they could pull off this kind of **** and Democrats couldn't do anything about it. It's been a slippery slope all the way since.

I'd think that the likes of McCarthy and Nixon had provided some good foundations, mebbe Goldwater and Orrin Hatch too.

Norman Alexander 7th January 2022 05:27 AM

In the chess game of US politics, one side is trying to play according to the rules of chess. The other side is playing pigeon-chess and has nearly covered the board in rank guano. The MAGAchuds are cheering for the pigeon - they think that's how this game is played.

MTG? She is the guano.

JoeMorgue 7th January 2022 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgidm86 (Post 13696277)
I agree with you and Shemp. Waiting for the conservatives to answer this question.

What fantasy world are you living in where they are ever going to?

One of them might stick their head out from under their rock to make a snide trolling comment, but answers or a point? Never.

gnome 8th January 2022 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catsmate (Post 13695781)
Incorrect. There is no such distinction is one aspect of US law.
The First Amendment to the US Constitution applies only to the Federal government in the USA.

If we're stepping outside of constitutional law, "hate speech isn't free speech" is still an equivocation. "Free speech" is a human rights principle, not a flavor of speech, of which "hate speech" might be distinguished from.


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