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-   -   The Marjorie Taylor Greene thread. (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=347945)

BobTheCoward 28th November 2021 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruto (Post 13666349)
Even if you believe that the particular circumstances of the event led to a just verdict in Rittenhouse's case, I think one would have to be at the very least deluded to believe that Greene's statement of praise for Rittenhouse is not a call for others to take up arms and assassinate protesters.

Greene herself has called publicly for the murder of her political opponents and for advocates of vaccination mandates. How blind would one have to be to believe her singling out Rittenhouse (whom she also recommended for a congressional medal for "protecting the people of Kenosha") is not a call for combat and bloodshed?

Even if one believes that under the circumstances, Rittenhouse's actions were not illegal, the difference between that and calling them worthy of public adulation is huge, and yes, it's offensive.

Aside from all this, I believe even if you were a supporter of Greene, you would go along with this. She makes a concerted effort, after all, to be as offensive as possible to those whose deaths she publicly seeks. If you do not consider her remarks offensive, you might as well be accusing her of failure.

Wait, how does praising someone for using lawful deadly force because they feared for their life from an attack encourage people to use unlawful deadly force against others they do not fear?

BobTheCoward 28th November 2021 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw (Post 13666350)

Again,. none of that is using deadly force to protect property.

bruto 28th November 2021 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13666351)
The best part is, the comment was attributed to Boebert, not MTG.

This place is a real think-tank of critical thought, I'll tell you.

Excuse me for mixing them up. They seem like peas in a pod. It's true that it seems Boebert has not publicly called for others to be assassinated, only praised those who do, but I was careless.

I still contend that there is a huge difference, and an important one, between believing that Rittenhouse's verdict was correct, and praising him publicly, and that Boebert's singling him out was offensive, and intentionally so.

Crazy Chainsaw 28th November 2021 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward (Post 13666353)
Again,. none of that is using deadly force to protect property.

He specifically stated the only reason he went to the event was to Protect Property, and he brought a gun. Didn't the Car lot owners buy insurance to protect their property, is Kyle and Insurance agent or a Police Officer ir just a Vigilante who got into more than he bargained for?

BobTheCoward 28th November 2021 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw (Post 13666357)
He specifically stated the only reason he went to the event was to Protect Property, and he brought a gun. Didn't the Car lot owners buy insurance to protect their property, is Kyle and Insurance agent or a Police Officer ir just a Vigilante who got into more than he bargained for?

There is a difference between using deadly force to protect property, and using non deadly force to protect property that leads to an altercation where one uses deadly force to protect their life.

eerok 28th November 2021 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruto (Post 13666349)
Even if one believes that under the circumstances, Rittenhouse's actions were not illegal, the difference between that and calling them worthy of public adulation is huge, and yes, it's offensive.

I agree. Rittenhouse was an idiot to go armed to the riots, and anyone who praises him for it is doubly an idiot, or worse.

BobTheCoward 28th November 2021 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eerok (Post 13666365)
I agree. Rittenhouse was an idiot to go armed to the riots, and anyone who praises him for it is doubly an idiot, or worse.

I'm sorry his skirt was too short.

so much victim blaming

surrogate 28th November 2021 08:46 AM

What is wrong with you leftist clowns, how could you get the blonde pile of **** confused with the brunette pile of ******

bruto 28th November 2021 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward (Post 13666362)
There is a difference between using deadly force to protect property, and using non deadly force to protect property that leads to an altercation where one uses deadly force to protect their life.

That is presumably the reason he was acquitted, but it does not mean what he did was good or praiseworthy. He took it upon himself to do what he did, and taking a loaded automatic weapon with him suggests that he was at least willing, if not eager, to kill. I consider this true even if it is also true that he was sincere in his intention, even if he succeeded in protecting property, even if his actions were technically legal, and even if the persons who threatened him were extremely stupid to do so. All this may be true, and yet one can also consider the whole incident to warrant no praise for any of the participants.

Crazy Chainsaw 28th November 2021 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward (Post 13666362)
There is a difference between using deadly force to protect property, and using non deadly force to protect property that leads to an altercation where one uses deadly force to protect their life.

Wouldn't having a Camera instead of a gun have protected the property much better?
Why wasn't he documenting the Protests instead of waving a gun around in Public?

BobTheCoward 28th November 2021 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw (Post 13666405)
Wouldn't having a Camera instead of a gun have protected the property much better?
Why wasn't he documenting the Protests instead of waving a gun around in Public?

I have no opinion on that. My interest is limited to the implications he used deadly force to protect property.

Crazy Chainsaw 28th November 2021 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward (Post 13666409)
I have no opinion on that. My interest is limited to the implications he used deadly force to protect property.

Truth is he didn't protect the property he ran, he could have documented the destruction and who caused it, but he ran, after someone was shot, he didn't dial 911 and ask help he ran.
The victims are the ones who were shot and Injured because of someone untrained and irresponsible, who valued property over life.

BobTheCoward 28th November 2021 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw (Post 13666415)
Truth is he didn't protect the property he ran, he could have documented the destruction and who caused it, but he ran, after someone was shot, he didn't dial 911 and ask help he ran.
The victims are the ones who were shot and Injured because of someone untrained and irresponsible, who valued property over life.

Except for the part where he did not use deadly force to protect property. As you said, he ran.

Crazy Chainsaw 28th November 2021 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward (Post 13666420)
Except for the part where he did not use deadly force to protect property. As you said, he ran.

The hard Truth is if he had stayed home people would still be Alive.

BobTheCoward 28th November 2021 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw (Post 13666425)
The hard Truth is if he had stayed home people would still be Alive.

Again, I have no opinion about that. I'm only concerned about the argument he used deadly force to defend property.

sackett 28th November 2021 10:18 AM

Chainsaw my man, you are bobbing for reason, and you'll only get your face wet.

My take on wee Karl Scheissmaul, the Boy Brownshirt, is simpler, and based on firearms technology: An AR15 or a clone thereof is useless for any purpose* but shooting people. So says this gunsmith's son and plenty of people agree.



* Okay, you can take one to the range and turn money into smoke (as a poster here once put it) bing-banging at targets. Boring, wasteful, adolescent shooting. No wonder it appealed to the likes of Kerl Scheissimhosen.

Crazy Chainsaw 28th November 2021 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward (Post 13666420)
Except for the part where he did not use deadly force to protect property. As you said, he ran.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sackett (Post 13666435)
Chainsaw my man, you are bobbing for reason, and you'll only get your face wet.

My take on wee Karl Scheissmaul, the Boy Brownshirt, is simpler, and based on firearms technology: An AR15 or a clone thereof is useless for any purpose* but shooting people. So says this gunsmith's son and plenty of people agree.



* Okay, you can take one to the range and turn money into smoke (as a poster here once put it) bing-banging at targets. Boring, wasteful, adolescent shooting. No wonder it appealed to the likes of Kerl Scheissimhosen.

I prefer a good six pound Canon but they are a little heavy to carry.
Or a Smitt Rubin.

smartcooky 28th November 2021 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruto (Post 13666355)
Excuse me for mixing them up. They seem like peas in a pod. It's true that it seems Boebert has not publicly called for others to be assassinated, only praised those who do, but I was careless....

... but excusable. They're much of a muchness... Marjorie Boebert-Cawthorn

Quote:

Originally Posted by surrogate (Post 13666370)
What is wrong with you leftist clowns, how could you get the blonde pile of **** confused with the brunette pile of ******

The colour of their hair is unimportant.

bruto 28th November 2021 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward (Post 13666430)
Again, I have no opinion about that. I'm only concerned about the argument he used deadly force to defend property.

Technically it would seem you are right, hence the controversial verdict. But one could also say that if he was on a mission to protect property, took a deadly weapon to that job, and ended up using it in connection with that job, it was an invitation to bloodshed that began with him.

I think he squeaked through a passive-aggressive loophole, creating a situation in which he could do what he did, and even if the verdict was necessary under the circumstances, I would still consider him blameworthy.

BobTheCoward 28th November 2021 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruto (Post 13666620)
Technically it would seem you are right, hence the controversial verdict. But one could also say that if he was on a mission to protect property, took a deadly weapon to that job, and ended up using it in connection with that job, it was an invitation to bloodshed that began with him.

I think he squeaked through a passive-aggressive loophole, creating a situation in which he could do what he did, and even if the verdict was necessary under the circumstances, I would still consider him blameworthy.

I'm not sure it is a loophole

bruto 28th November 2021 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward (Post 13666667)
I'm not sure it is a loophole

I rather think it is, in the sense that by showing up with a gun, he was the author of an event for which he was then able to disclaim responsibility. Of course we can't know for sure how he thought or anticipated, but we do know he decided to go to a demonstration where mayhem could be expected, and brought an automatic weapon. I am guessing that had the event under question not occurred, he would have continued until something like it did, and the fact that he managed to get away with shooting 3 people owing to their intemperance before acting on his own counts as a loophole.

BobTheCoward 28th November 2021 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruto (Post 13666765)
I rather think it is, in the sense that by showing up with a gun, he was the author of an event for which he was then able to disclaim responsibility. Of course we can't know for sure how he thought or anticipated, but we do know he decided to go to a demonstration where mayhem could be expected, and brought an automatic weapon. I am guessing that had the event under question not occurred, he would have continued until something like it did, and the fact that he managed to get away with shooting 3 people owing to their intemperance before acting on his own counts as a loophole.

Sorry, I was a little pithy. I think the people who have worked to expand self defense law are content that the situation you described occurred.This is a feature to them, not a bug.

Crazy Chainsaw 28th November 2021 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward (Post 13666784)
Sorry, I was a little pithy. I think the people who have worked to expand self defense law are content that the situation you described occurred.This is a feature to them, not a bug.

The Probable Consequences of this is protesters will Arm themselves better and shoot First least they be shot.
That's why most people with brains think Vigilantes are a bad Idea.

smartcooky 28th November 2021 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruto (Post 13666765)
I rather think it is, in the sense that by showing up with a gun, he was the author of an event for which he was then able to disclaim responsibility. Of course we can't know for sure how he thought or anticipated, but we do know he decided to go to a demonstration where mayhem could be expected, and brought an automatic weapon. I am guessing that had the event under question not occurred, he would have continued until something like it did, and the fact that he managed to get away with shooting 3 people owing to their intemperance before acting on his own counts as a loophole.

Well, we actually do know, but the jury were never allowed to see it.

Stacyhs 28th November 2021 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13666308)
I don't find her comment offensive at all. I don't want to get too far into the Rittenhouse case, but he was found not guilty of all charges. And a Christian saying "God bless him" is really no big deal.

Certainly there is plenty of legitimate criticism to lob at her, but this isn't one of those cases, imo.

The comment itself isn't offensive; the motive behind it is. It's just her contribution to the lionizing of Rittenhouse by the right wing as some kind of "patriot" hero. You know, like this from Tucker C:

"The picture that emerges is of a working-class kid who sincerely believes in America. His community falls apart, and he tries his best to do the right thing, at a time when almost no one else in the community is trying to do the right thing. But he does. And in return for that, the state, under political pressure, throws him in prison."

Rittenhouse is being used for political purposes all right...by the likes of TC, Boebert, and MTG who wants him to receive the Congressional Gold Medal. For what? Making a stupid decision as a minor to get a gun through illegal means and put himself where he had no business being.

Warp12 28th November 2021 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13666831)
The comment itself isn't offensive; the motive behind it is. It's just her contribution to the lionizing of Rittenhouse by the right wing as some kind of "patriot" hero. You know, like this from Tucker C:

"The picture that emerges is of a working-class kid who sincerely believes in America. His community falls apart, and he tries his best to do the right thing, at a time when almost no one else in the community is trying to do the right thing. But he does. And in return for that, the state, under political pressure, throws him in prison."

Rittenhouse is being used for political purposes all right...by the likes of TC, Boebert, and MTG who wants him to receive the Congressional Gold Medal. For what? Making a stupid decision as a minor to get a gun through illegal means and put himself where he had no business being.

Well, I can see your point about politicizing these cases...but this is also done frequently by the left. I think this is being blown out of proportion. Now, some of Boebert's other comments are simply ridiculous. Especially the elevator story.

Stacyhs 28th November 2021 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13666835)
Well, I can see your point about politicizing these cases...but this is also done frequently by the left.

Whataboutism #1


Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13666835)
I think this is being blown out of proportion. Now, some of Boebert's other comments are simply ridiculous. Especially the elevator story.

Almost all her comments are ridiculous and/or offensive. Especially the elevator story.

Warp12 28th November 2021 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13666851)
Whataboutism #1

Like clockwork. Point out Dem hypocrisy, and the magic word comes out.

Instead of saying, "Yeah, both sides should avoid politicizing such cases"...we get this garbage. It's pathetic.

trustbutverify 28th November 2021 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13666835)
Well, I can see your point about politicizing these cases...but this is also done frequently by the left. I think this is being blown out of proportion. Now, some of Boebert's other comments are simply ridiculous. Especially the elevator story.

Boebert's a clown. You know this.

Stacyhs 28th November 2021 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13666854)
Like clockwork. Point out Dem hypocrisy, and the magic word comes out.

Instead of saying, "Yeah, both sides should avoid politicizing such cases"...we get this garbage. It's pathetic.

We certainly do get garbage. And it is whataboutism whether you like it or not.

eerok 28th November 2021 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trustbutverify (Post 13666855)
Boebert's a clown. You know this.

A clown in a troupe. The GOP has evolved from stodgy good-old-boy corruption to full-on dancing, japing mental illness. Hey, whatever pays.

trustbutverify 28th November 2021 08:07 PM

The GOP and its base are ready and willing to go full on Nazi given enough political cover. And Glenn Greendouche will cheer them on.

angrysoba 29th November 2021 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trustbutverify (Post 13666867)
The GOP and its base are ready and willing to go full on Nazi given enough political cover. And Glenn Greendouche will cheer them on.

It's looking like him and Matt Taibbi have become the latest "totally not sucking up to the GOP" "journalists" taking that sweet right-wing cash.

slyjoe 30th November 2021 04:16 PM

Marj is cranking up the pace. She went after another House Republican:

Quote:

"@NancyMace is the trash in the GOP Conference," tweeted the Georgia Republican about her colleague from South Carolina on Tuesday morning. "Never attacked by Democrats or RINO's (same thing) because she is not conservative, she's pro-abort. Mace you can back up off of @laurenboebert or just go hang with your real gal pals, the Jihad Squad. Your out of your league."
This after Mace called out Boebert for calling Omar a terrorist. And, it led to this response from Mace:

Quote:

"This is what [bat emoji, poop emoji, clown emoji] looks like."
https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/30/polit...ert/index.html

dudalb 30th November 2021 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trustbutverify (Post 13666855)
Boebert's a clown. You know this.

What do you got againts clowns?

Stacyhs 1st December 2021 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13668482)
What do you got againts clowns?

They have better hair than Trump?

Norman Alexander 1st December 2021 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTG
@NancyMace is the trash in the GOP Conference," tweeted the Georgia Republican about her colleague from South Carolina on Tuesday morning. "Never attacked by Democrats or RINO's (same thing) because she is not conservative, she's pro-abort. Mace you can back up off of @laurenboebert or just go hang with your real gal pals, the Jihad Squad. Your out of your league.

Is the same gibbering dip-**** who composed Donny's tweets now doing Marj's for her?

Also, your, you're, yore, yaw - pick the right one.

Trebuchet 1st December 2021 07:26 AM

Remember Michele Bachmann? She's looking sane and rational compared to the current crop of Republicans.

ponderingturtle 1st December 2021 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza (Post 13666340)
Put it another way: what has Rittenhouse done for MTGs constituents that would justify her spending time asking publicly for his blessing?
Surely there are people in her district more deserving than Rittenhouse.

Trigger the libs of course. That is the most worthy thing anyone can do.

TurkeysGhost 1st December 2021 09:46 AM

Seems to me it's only a matter of time before Boebert, MTG, or some other fashy grandstander physically accosts someone on the Congressional floor, like the famous caning by Brooks.

People like Omar and AOC would probably be well advised to learn some basic martial arts or arm themselves to be able to defend themselves from some assault/political stunt by these losers.

bruto 1st December 2021 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13669046)
Seems to me it's only a matter of time before Boebert, MTG, or some other fashy grandstander physically accosts someone on the Congressional floor, like the famous caning by Brooks.

People like Omar and AOC would probably be well advised to learn some basic martial arts or arm themselves to be able to defend themselves from some assault/political stunt by these losers.

I'd strongly advise such persons not to arm themselves, since that would provide an excuse for assault, if not, in these strange days, a defense for self-defense. Don't expect to win a pissing contest with someone who is full of it.

TurkeysGhost 1st December 2021 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruto (Post 13669088)
I'd strongly advise such persons not to arm themselves, since that would provide an excuse for assault, if not, in these strange days, a defense for self-defense. Don't expect to win a pissing contest with someone who is full of it.

The type of people that support these freaks see little dishonor in beating the snot out of some totally defenseless. In fact, decisively shutting up some wimp who dared challenge their worldview is probably something that would make them very happy. Brooks gave a defenseless Sumner a debilitating TBI during a premeditated attack and was lauded as a hero of the slave South for doing so.

I would see little benefit in being open about such training or arming, but a lot in doing so. You don't actually have to strut around showing off like a right wing psycho to be able to defend yourself.

There's no reason to threaten violence or be provocative, but they should be thinking carefully about how they will deal with violent aggression from the right that increasingly seems inevitable. People like Omar or AOC would be the first to be targeted should such a complete breach of civility occur, there's really no way for them to "wait and see". The right is telegraphing this quite clearly.

bruto 1st December 2021 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13669093)
The type of people that support these freaks see little dishonor in beating the snot out of some totally defenseless. In fact, decisively shutting up some wimp who dared challenge their worldview is probably something that would make them very happy. Brooks gave a defenseless Sumner a debilitating TBI during a premeditated attack and was lauded as a hero of the slave South for doing so.

I would see little benefit in being open about such training or arming, but a lot in doing so. You don't actually have to strut around showing off like a right wing psycho to be able to defend yourself.

There's no reason to threaten violence or be provocative, but they should be thinking carefully about how they will deal with violent aggression from the right that increasingly seems inevitable. People like Omar or AOC would be the first to be targeted should such a complete breach of civility occur, there's really no way for them to "wait and see". The right is telegraphing this quite clearly.

I agree in principle, but I do not think that principle rules in practice any more these days. In a world where people can accuse their opponents of terrorism for their religious beliefs, their leader, two of whose three wives immigrated and at least one violated immigration law, can insult a congresswoman for immigrating, and where calls for the assassination of political and ideological opponents are tolerated by the colleagues sitting in the same chamber, principle is fraught with crazy consequences. If I were in the position of Omar and co., I'd certainly want to bone up on martial arts and other protective stratagems, but I'd leave the weapons at home.

Omar, Cortez and co. are considered by many a threat by their very existence. I would confidently expect that if any were known to carry a weapon, it would be perceived as such a threat that they would be gunned down pre-emptively, and their murderers congratulated, if not awarded medals.

Warp12 1st December 2021 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruto (Post 13669171)
Omar, Cortez and co. are considered by many a threat by their very existence. I would confidently expect that if any were known to carry a weapon, it would be perceived as such a threat that they would be gunned down pre-emptively, and their murderers congratulated, if not awarded medals.

Talk about fear-mongering. :rolleyes:

Venom 1st December 2021 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13669183)
Talk about fear-mongering. :rolleyes:

You have to suspect that people like MTG and Boebert and their supporters are trying to see how far they can push this behavior short of shooting someone on the House floor.

Honestly, can you say that their most rabid fans wouldn't be laughing and clapping if Omar or AOC were maimed by a MAGA terrorist? Go look at the rightwing response to AOC's past sexual assault and tell us they wouldn't.

TurkeysGhost 1st December 2021 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venom (Post 13669205)
You have to suspect that people like MTG and Boebert and their supporters are trying to see how far they can push this behavior short of shooting someone on the House floor.

Honestly, can you say that their most rabid fans wouldn't be laughing and clapping if Omar or AOC were maimed by a MAGA terrorist? Go look at the rightwing response to AOC's past sexual assault and tell us they wouldn't.

I wouldn't be so sure that all of these politicians are just grandstanding. The right wing is very much in touch with their rabid base, and I imagine there will be more and more "true believers" in halls of power as time goes on.

MTG specifically strikes me as someone with a tenuous grasp on reality.

abaddon 1st December 2021 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13669183)
Talk about fear-mongering. :rolleyes:

How is it fear mongering to you? You promote it.

My family was involved in it. You have no idea what that means. Rebelling against a government is not what you think it is. What do you think this is?

https://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_...1200/image.jpg

abaddon 1st December 2021 01:01 PM

How about this?
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=...AAAAAdAAAAABAD

Warp12 1st December 2021 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venom (Post 13669205)
You have to suspect that people like MTG and Boebert and their supporters are trying to see how far they can push this behavior short of shooting someone on the House floor.

Honestly, can you say that their most rabid fans wouldn't be laughing and clapping if Omar or AOC were maimed by a MAGA terrorist? Go look at the rightwing response to AOC's past sexual assault and tell us they wouldn't.

Some people believe everything they read, I guess. AOC is an attention whore. It is hard to believe anything she says.

Warp12 1st December 2021 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abaddon (Post 13669221)
How is it fear mongering to you? You promote it.

My family was involved in it. You have no idea what that means. Rebelling against a government is not what you think it is. What do you think this is?

https://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_...1200/image.jpg

I think it is some kind of Irish stuff. Which I don't care about.


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