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-   -   Covid-19 and Politics (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=342577)

dann 13th March 2020 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer (Post 13019128)
Just so long as you keep the bacon coming. The bacon must flow.


In your dreams! We're keeping it all to ourselves from now on!

dudalb 13th March 2020 12:17 PM

China now swiping from Stephen King: They are pushing a conspiracy theory that the US military is responsible for the Corona virus.

Darat 13th March 2020 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13019140)
China now swiping from Stephen King: They are pushing a conspiracy theory that the US military is responsible for the Corona virus.

Who is?

dann 13th March 2020 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13019140)
China now swiping from Stephen King: They are pushing a conspiracy theory that the US military is responsible for the Corona virus.


It sounds like sarcasm to me: They've noticed that the U.S. administration is full of lies, that the "numbers" meant to make the (lack of) disease control in the USA appear to be efficient are based solely on the fact that hardly anybody has been tested yet, and that the racist attempts to blame the Chinese for the virus can be turned against them.
It's the obvious thing to do!

Trebuchet 13th March 2020 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dann (Post 13019121)
Sorry, Denmark is closed! (Well, not quite, yet, but tomorrow at noon.)
We expect to open again after Easter!
Statsministeren: Danmarks grænser lukker fra klokken 12 i morgen (DR.dk, March 13, 2020)
The Primeminister: Denmark's borders will be closed at 12 noon tomorrow

Quote:

Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer (Post 13019128)
Just so long as you keep the bacon coming. The bacon must flow.

You can keep the tins of butter cookies, however. Despite my Danish heritage I find the ones from Scotland much better.

angrysoba 13th March 2020 04:25 PM

Here’s an opinion piece: China bought the world time with the containment strategy. The world squandered it:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/13/o...nse-china.html

dudalb 13th March 2020 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13019164)
Who is?

Mother Nature.

dudalb 13th March 2020 10:13 PM

Just tead about the theory behind the UK;s government total inaction on the Virus, and, frankly, it isjust about the craziest damn thing I have read.

P.J. Denyer 14th March 2020 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13019622)
Just tead about the theory behind the UK;s government total inaction on the Virus, and, frankly, it isjust about the craziest damn thing I have read.

What theory?

Ivor the Engineer 14th March 2020 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13019622)
Just tead about the theory behind the UK;s government total inaction on the Virus, and, frankly, it isjust about the craziest damn thing I have read.

The UK has a dedicated agency for public health who have been planning for pandemics for years. That some or many people don't like the plan doesn't equate to inaction, total or otherwise.

Darat 14th March 2020 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivor the Engineer (Post 13019724)
The UK has a dedicated agency for public health who have been planning for pandemics for years. That some or many people don't like the plan doesn't equate to inaction, total or otherwise.

I agree but there really does seem some disconnect to me. It's about the testing. We need everyone who has to self isolate to be tested. That way we will know the extent of the infections and have an "army" of people that can ensure critical services and the like can continue because we know they have had the virus.

Captain_Swoop 14th March 2020 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivor the Engineer (Post 13019724)
The UK has a dedicated agency for public health who have been planning for pandemics for years. That some or many people don't like the plan doesn't equate to inaction, total or otherwise.

Yes it's do as little as possible because there isn't anything left after 10 years of austerity to do anything.

Captain_Swoop 14th March 2020 04:14 AM

Trump Retweeted

Kayleigh McEnany
@kayleighmcenany
When Joe Biden was in charge of the H1N1 Swine Flu epidemic, this happened in America:
60.8 MILLION infected
274,304 hospitalized
12,469 died
By contrast, President @realDonaldTrump has led, taking unprecedented action to stop the coronavirus & protect Americans!

Joe Biden just lied, saying coronavirus tests should be in the millions, not thousands.
Has anyone told Joe that 1 million tests have already been distributed, with 4 million distributed by the end of the week?

Team Trump (Text TRUMP to 88022)
@TeamTrump
MUST READ: Joe Biden Plagiarizes President @realDonaldTrump’s #Coronavirus Plan!
Joe Biden Plagiarizes President Trump’s Coronavirus Plan
Incompetent Biden bizarrely calls on President Trump to do things he’s already done.
donaldjtrump.com

Ivor the Engineer 14th March 2020 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13019726)
I agree but there really does seem some disconnect to me. It's about the testing. We need everyone who has to self isolate to be tested. That way we will know the extent of the infections and have an "army" of people that can ensure critical services and the like can continue because we know they have had the virus.

My soon to be wife is a GP and we were talking about just that over breakfast. Other than deliberately infecting the workforce I doubt there would be sufficient numbers to handle the workload in time to make a significant difference.

Ivor the Engineer 14th March 2020 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13019728)
Yes it's do as little as possible because there isn't anything left after 10 years of austerity to do anything.

I realise people are scared, but do finger-pointing dramatic narratives like the above do any good whatsoever?

Darat 14th March 2020 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivor the Engineer (Post 13019734)
I realise people are scared, but do finger-pointing dramatic narratives like the above do any good whatsoever?

This is meant to be the politics thread and I think that is a valid criticism.

The NHSs have always been lean and efficient and 10 years ago the NHSs were in a good place, excess capacity - which you need - fully funded, staffing was still a bit of an issue in some areas. In the last 10 years we have lost all of that. As I've described it elsewhere, there was never any fat to cut so the last ten years have been cutting the muscle of the NHSs away (and at times hacking into the very bones of the services) and we now are faced with a situation that requires a fit and fully functional NHSs and we no longer have them.

dudalb 14th March 2020 01:51 PM

UK and Ireland just added to the US travel restrictions on Europe
France shutting down all entertainment facalities, even restaurants.
I think Boris is going to have to do somethng now...as much as he hates to.

pharphis 14th March 2020 02:29 PM

2 days ago Ontario, Canada announced closure of public schools for 2 additional weeks (march break is about to start and lasts a week, each year). I'm guessing it will extend much longer, and things might convert fully to online education (now's the time).

Garrison 14th March 2020 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13020097)
UK and Ireland just added to the US travel restrictions on Europe
France shutting down all entertainment facalities, even restaurants.
I think Boris is going to have to do somethng now...as much as he hates to.

Yeah it looks a ban on public gatherings is on the cards for early next week. I think we'll get by mainly because Boris hasn't had time to get rid of all the professionals in Whitehall. I'm less sanguine about will happen when the virus spikes in the USA.

Ivor the Engineer 14th March 2020 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13019823)
This is meant to be the politics thread and I think that is a valid criticism.

The NHSs have always been lean and efficient and 10 years ago the NHSs were in a good place, excess capacity - which you need - fully funded, staffing was still a bit of an issue in some areas. In the last 10 years we have lost all of that. As I've described it elsewhere, there was never any fat to cut so the last ten years have been cutting the muscle of the NHSs away (and at times hacking into the very bones of the services) and we now are faced with a situation that requires a fit and fully functional NHSs and we no longer have them.

Shame labour made themselves unelectable.

Darat 14th March 2020 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivor the Engineer (Post 13020156)
Shame labour made themselves unelectable.

Which has nothing to do with the decision to degrade our NHSs, no one forced the government to make such (effectively huge cuts), force absolutely stupid "reforms" onto the likes of GPs and create another tier of bureaucracy that adds in admin and management into non-medical areas.

In regards to the current situation it matters not one whit to me which party was in government - I'm concerned about what the government will do. Sadly the last few governments for ideological reasons decided to degrade our NHSs meaning they are now less able to cope with the current situation than they would have been 10 years ago.

We are told "The NHS will get everything it needs". Unfortunately that would require a time machine to go back and undo all the stupidity and the ideological based cuts.

Lukraak_Sisser 14th March 2020 11:29 PM

At least most of us in Europe can be assured of some form of accessible healthcare and the right to be paid if we're forced to sit at home. Though I realize that the slimming of both healthcare and social security by the various right wing governments has put a lot people out of reach of one or both.

In the US though? If the Democrats are smart they point out that taxing the rich to pay for a social security net and healthcare actually does mostly help people who are not at fault for their financial troubles. And given that a significant part of Trump's voters are people who will now face financial troubles due to having no healthcare it might help them.

ThatGuy11200 15th March 2020 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pharphis (Post 13020133)
2 days ago Ontario, Canada announced closure of public schools for 2 additional weeks (march break is about to start and lasts a week, each year). I'm guessing it will extend much longer, and things might convert fully to online education (now's the time).

I work at a university and they've suspended all face-to-face teaching, as of last week. All non-practical teaching is moving online (I don't know what's happening with practical work) and closed room exams will be replaced with coursework or online assessments.

Garrison 15th March 2020 03:46 AM

Just to make matters a little worse:

Coronavirus: US airports in disarray over screening

As the article points out:

Quote:

Some public health experts have noted that waiting in crowded terminals could potentially lead to more people becoming infected with the virus.
So yeah its all going swimmingly and the USA is nowhere the kind of levels of Covid19 cases(relative to population) that we are seeing in the UK. Thank god the President delivered on his promise that everyone would have great healthcare plans...

The Don 15th March 2020 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garrison (Post 13020599)
Just to make matters a little worse:

Coronavirus: US airports in disarray over screening

As the article points out:



So yeah its all going swimmingly and the USA is nowhere the kind of levels of Covid19 cases(relative to population) that we are seeing in the UK. Thank god the President delivered on his promise that everyone would have great healthcare plans...

Then again, with so little testing done to date, who knows what the current incidence in the US really is....

The Don 15th March 2020 04:18 AM

Nick Hancock, the UK Health Secretary is floundering as usual. He said this morning that all over 70s, and all other high risk individuals will have to self-isolate for an indeterminate period of time at an unknown point in the future....

..... making it up as they go along as usual. :mad:

Darat 15th March 2020 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garrison (Post 13020599)
Just to make matters a little worse:

Coronavirus: US airports in disarray over screening

As the article points out:



So yeah its all going swimmingly and the USA is nowhere the kind of levels of Covid19 cases(relative to population) that we are seeing in the UK. Thank god the President delivered on his promise that everyone would have great healthcare plans...

Seems as if they want as many returning people to infect each other!

dann 15th March 2020 05:04 AM

Sorry about that, NZ: Coronavirus in NZ: Danish tourist visited Queenstown adventure attraction, restaurant (NZ Herald, March 15, 2020)
Dansk kvinde bringer coronasmitte til New Zealands største ø (DR.dk, March 15, 2020)

dann 15th March 2020 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13020620)
Seems as if they want as many returning people to infect each other!


Grotesque!

Tætte køer og timelang ventetid: Hjemvendte amerikanere strandet i lufthavne (DR.dk, March 15, 2020)

Darat 15th March 2020 05:15 AM

Could be some very nasty business between the USS and Germany

https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/artic...off-Firma.html

dann 15th March 2020 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13019726)
I agree but there really does seem some disconnect to me. It's about the testing. We need everyone who has to self isolate to be tested. That way we will know the extent of the infections and have an "army" of people that can ensure critical services and the like can continue because we know they have had the virus.


On March 12, they stopped doing that here:
Quote:

After March 12, only people who are seriously ill have been tested, so the actual number of people who are infected is actually higher.
Nyeste corona-tal fra Danmark og verden: Så mange er smittede, døde og indlagte (TV2, March 15, 2020)

dann 15th March 2020 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13020624)
Could be some very nasty business between the USS and Germany

https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/artic...off-Firma.html


It sounds very much like him!

Quote:

Trump tue alles, um einen Impfstoff für die USA zu bekommen. „Aber eben nur für die USA“, heißt es in der Bundesregierung.

Not even in this situation does he seem to consider that international cooperation might be a good idea.

Ivor the Engineer 15th March 2020 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13020611)
Nick Hancock, the UK Health Secretary is floundering as usual. He said this morning that all over 70s, and all other high risk individuals will have to self-isolate for an indeterminate period of time at an unknown point in the future....

..... making it up as they go along as usual. :mad:

I believe they really are trying to follow the scientific advice and do the best they can. Unfortunately for the politicians that scientific advice is a bit out of sync with the rest of the world, so they have to keep telling the population that the measures that are currently in force in many countries around the world are coming to the UK soon.

The plan requires quite careful timing to work; we want the peak to be around spring and early summer. Plus they are taking advice from behavioural psychologists as to how long the British public will stick to the more draconian measures.

But if your brain is wired to hate the conservatives irrespective of the issue then nothing I or anyone else says will change your attitude and beliefs.

We really need to be working together as a country on this, not bickering based on our ideological biases, pointing the finger before it's even started to get really bad...

Captain_Swoop 15th March 2020 06:37 AM

Trump had a negative test result apparently.
He was definitely infected but after spending 10 minutes in him the virus took its own life.

Darat 15th March 2020 06:42 AM

What need to being doing is preparing. Government should be in parliament tomorrow getting legislation passed to take extreme measures. I'd like to see them request the power to grab the delivery services such as Amazon and Tescos. If over 70s have to self isolate for months we need to be delivering them food and other supplies. If we need more hospital beds get the power to requisition them from the private companies. And so on.

Times like this we need to be able to act like a "control economy " and they need to start doing that now.

If the plans never need to be put in place fantastic, but we need them ready and waiting to kick in the day they are needed.

We can be doing so much more than we are apparently doing.

Ivor the Engineer 15th March 2020 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13020670)
What need to being doing is preparing. Government should be in parliament tomorrow getting legislation passed to take extreme measures. I'd like to see them request the power to grab the delivery services such as Amazon and Tescos. If over 70s have to self isolate for months we need to be delivering them food and other supplies. If we need more hospital beds get the power to requisition them from the private companies. And so on.

Times like this we need to be able to act like a "control economy " and they need to start doing that now.

If the plans never need to be put in place fantastic, but we need them ready and waiting to kick in the day they are needed.

We can be doing so much more than we are apparently doing.

There are plans to do all of that. :confused:

ETA: Here you go: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51895873

Quote:

Every Briton over the age of 70 will be told "within the coming weeks" to stay at home for an extended period to shield them from coronavirus, Health Secretary Matt Hancock has said.

He told the BBC the advice will not come into force just yet but when it does it will last "a very long time".

Wartime-like measures will ask car makers to produce medical equipment and turn hotels into hospitals, he said.

"Every single person in this country is going to be affected," he warned.

Over-70s - and younger people with certain health conditions - will need to remain at home and have groceries and vital medication delivered, the health secretary said.

GlennB 15th March 2020 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivor the Engineer (Post 13020655)
I believe they really are trying to follow the scientific advice and do the best they can. Unfortunately for the politicians that scientific advice is a bit out of sync with the rest of the world, so they have to keep telling the population that the measures that are currently in force in many countries around the world are coming to the UK soon.

The plan requires quite careful timing to work; we want the peak to be around spring and early summer. Plus they are taking advice from behavioural psychologists as to how long the British public will stick to the more draconian measures.

But if your brain is wired to hate the conservatives irrespective of the issue then nothing I or anyone else says will change your attitude and beliefs.

We really need to be working together as a country on this, not bickering based on our ideological biases, pointing the finger before it's even started to get really bad...

My arse. It's nothing to do with ideological bias, just science.

I’m an epidemiologist. When I heard about Britain’s ‘herd immunity’ coronavirus plan, I thought it was satire.

Trebuchet 15th March 2020 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13020624)
Could be some very nasty business between the USS and Germany

https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/artic...off-Firma.html

Google couldn't translate. Can someone give us the gist?

Ivor the Engineer 15th March 2020 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlennB (Post 13020679)

So do you believe the experts (including behavioural psychologists) the UK government are consulting are coming out with idiotic advice or the government are ignoring them?

Captain_Swoop 15th March 2020 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivor the Engineer (Post 13020673)
There are plans to do all of that. :confused:

ETA: Here you go: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51895873

How are car makers supposed to produce 'medical equipment'?

Hotels in to hospitals?

How are things going to be delivered?

Vague statements aren't 'plans' and where is the legislation to compel companies to provide resources?


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