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-   -   St. Anger - the Jon Gold edition (https://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117873)

Childlike Empress 6th July 2008 02:46 PM

St. Anger - the Jon Gold edition
 
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25min, far more relevant than any Hardfire debate. (edit: from 17th of May 2008)

Jonnyclueless 6th July 2008 03:14 PM

Thanks for the warning. The endorsement helps me know what not to waste my time watching.

1337m4n 6th July 2008 03:17 PM

If I ask "What's it about", will I get a mature and informative reply, or will you just throw a temper tantrum?

Childlike Empress 6th July 2008 03:22 PM

You'd get a remark that such an outspoken person in the 9/11 field as you are should know who Jon Gold is and what he is about, and the information that that video is about the forming of and the problems with the 9/11 Commission.

pomeroo 6th July 2008 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress (Post 3838376)
You'd get a remark that such an outspoken person in the 9/11 field as you are should know who Jon Gold is and what he is about, and the information that that video is about the forming of and the problems with the 9/11 Commission.


Jon Gold, AKA The Running Man, is one of the silliest conspiracy liars. He is fact-free and impossible to pin down on anything.

Childlike Empress 6th July 2008 03:28 PM

Ron, please. Stop it.

applecorped 6th July 2008 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress (Post 3838385)
Ron, please. Stop it.

Stop what exactly? Are you suggesting Ron is lying?

JamesB 6th July 2008 03:31 PM

He is correct, I have never seen Gold answer a specific question. His stock answer to anything is "We don't know what happened."

OK, so you know nothing. Why exactly am I talking to you again?

jhunter1163 6th July 2008 03:37 PM

After you watch that, CLE, you should listen to your hero getting lit up by Opie and Anthony.

pomeroo 6th July 2008 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress (Post 3838385)
Ron, please. Stop it.


Sorry, Gold is a particularly bad joke.

Childlike Empress 6th July 2008 03:41 PM

It's always amusing to see how my threads attract the big wigs of the "9/11 debunking movement". Oh yeah, Brainster is missing, the guy who is the founder of that movement. He'll contribute, i'm sure. I only have to be patient.

To the fence-sitters or guests on this forum: Wherever people like Jon Gold are mentioned on the net, you'll immediately encounter people like JamesB and Brainster who'll try to associate these people with "space beams", "no planes", "controlled demoliton" etc. Don't believe me, just follow the pattern.

Jonnyclueless 6th July 2008 03:55 PM

Yes it's a wonder how your threads posted in a 9/11 conspiracy section of a debunking forums attract debunkers. Maybe we need an independent investigation to figure that one out.

And wow, a film about a no claimer. What better way to prove something that to simply claim you don't know.

JamesB 6th July 2008 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress (Post 3838411)
It's always amusing to see how my threads attract the big wigs of the "9/11 debunking movement". Oh yeah, Brainster is missing, the guy who is the founder of that movement. He'll contribute, i'm sure. I only have to be patient.

To the fence-sitters or guests on this forum: Wherever people like Jon Gold are mentioned on the net, you'll immediately encounter people like JamesB and Brainster who'll try to associate these people with "space beams", "no planes", "controlled demoliton" etc. Don't believe me, just follow the pattern.

That is not true, the space beam people will actually take a stand on something. It may be insanely stupid, but at least they will take a position. That is something that they have over Gold.

Brainster 6th July 2008 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress (Post 3838411)
It's always amusing to see how my threads attract the big wigs of the "9/11 debunking movement". Oh yeah, Brainster is missing, the guy who is the founder of that movement. He'll contribute, i'm sure. I only have to be patient.

Speak of the devil and he will appear. You give me too much credit, there. I'm not the founder of any debunking movement; in fact I believe that Gravy completed his original Loose Change guide a few weeks before James B and I opened up SLC. Mike Wilson of 9-11 Myths and Kate of Debunking 9-11 were around well before that. And of course going way back there was the guy who ran the McKinney Sucks blog who was debunking the nutbars back in 2003.

Quote:

To the fence-sitters or guests on this forum: Wherever people like Jon Gold are mentioned on the net, you'll immediately encounter people like JamesB and Brainster who'll try to associate these people with "space beams", "no planes", "controlled demoliton" etc. Don't believe me, just follow the pattern.
Jon Gold does not generally bring up any of those elements of the conspiracy theory. He feels free to associate with those who do, like Hopsicker, with whom he shared billing with at Justin's little gathering. Note that he talks about his "Truth Tuesday" movie showings; among the movies shown were distinctly MIHOP films like Loose Change Final Cut. Sorry, he can't have it both ways. I'd have to listen to that Opie & Anthony appearance again, but I suspect he was pushing controlled demolition a few years ago, it's just recently that he's adopted this "9-11 Truth is not MIHOP or LIHOP, it's JAQing and air quality too."

If 9-11 conspiracy theories were just about the air quality, I'd let it go. Either the first responders will start dying in droves, the way Gold, Feal and Alex Jones claim, or they won't; it's a debate that will be settled in time and battled out in the annals of the New England Journal of Medicine.

Childlike Empress 6th July 2008 04:22 PM

(edit @JamesB, hello Brainster) Yeah, and as everyone who uses their brain knows, we can't take a position beside of "the official story is not the whole story" because we don't have access to evidence. The "alternative hypothesis" challenge is laugably stupid.

Oh, fence-sitters again. JamesB and Brainster are the two persons behind the screw loose change blog. A place where everybody including Nico Haupt, a german actor dealing in realsatire is welcome as long as he is smearing activists.

VespaGuy 6th July 2008 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress (Post 3838411)
It's always amusing to see how my threads attract the big wigs of the "9/11 debunking movement".

You are just that important CE. Forget the CIA, FBI, and the evil gubmint. You are so important that the real "big wigs" - multiple anonymous forum members - are attracted to your threads.

Quote:

To the fence-sitters or guests on this forum: Wherever people like Jon Gold are mentioned on the net, you'll immediately encounter people like JamesB and Brainster who'll try to associate these people with "space beams", "no planes", "controlled demoliton" etc. Don't believe me, just follow the pattern.
Please set the fence-sitters straight, what does Jon Gold think happened? For instance, does he think CD was possible?

Childlike Empress 6th July 2008 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brainster (Post 3838501)
Speak of the devil and he will appear. You give me too much credit, there. I'm not the founder of any debunking movement; in fact I believe that Gravy completed his original Loose Change guide a few weeks before James B and I opened up SLC. Mike Wilson of 9-11 Myths and Kate of Debunking 9-11 were around well before that. And of course going way back there was the guy who ran the McKinney Sucks blog who was debunking the nutbars back in 2003..


Of course you are the founder of "debunking movement" because you were the first and only one to coin that phrase. We wll forever remember the thread about the question if such a movement exists.

JamesB 6th July 2008 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress (Post 3838508)
(edit @JamesB, hello Brainster) Yeah, and as everyone who uses their brain knows, we can't take a position beside of "the official story is not the whole story" because we don't have access to evidence. The "alternative hypothesis" challenge is laugably stupid.

If you don't have access to evidence than how has the truth movement managed to create 500 YouTube videos and even a dozen or so books proclaiming what irrefutable evidence of an inside job they have? You had better let Richard Gage know that he has no evidence. He doesn't seem to be aware of this fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress (Post 3838508)
Oh, fence-sitters again. JamesB and Brainster are the two persons behind the screw loose change blog. A place where everybody including Nico Haupt, a german actor dealing in realsatire is welcome as long as he is smearing activists.

You would prefer that we take the 911Blogger/LooseChange approach and immediately ban anyone that we don't agree with? And here I thought you guys were the libertarian free speech fighting the police state types...

Childlike Empress 6th July 2008 04:58 PM

I'm not the truth movement. Jon Gold is not the truth movement. Maybe the place where the real truth movement happens is the same place where the real debunking movement is located?

edit:

Quote:

And here I thought you guys were the libertarian free speech fighting the police state types...

Sorry, i'm a scientific materialist. ;)

Childlike Empress 6th July 2008 05:22 PM

"Scientific Materialism" is the science or method invented by Karl Marx and i personally think that it has great values but doesn't completely explain the situation we are in today. Mr. B knows all of this (including the russian language) better than i do because he is one of those intelligence types educated during the cold war. Like Robert Gates.

Crungy 6th July 2008 05:32 PM

Wasn't Jon Gold the gentleman who physically threatened Abby Scott a coupla years back?

Childlike Empress 6th July 2008 05:37 PM

No.

Alareth 6th July 2008 05:39 PM

I'm trying to process how anyone could consider Jon Gold relevant.

Childlike Empress 6th July 2008 05:41 PM

Good luck!

JamesB 6th July 2008 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress (Post 3838625)
"Scientific Materialism" is the science or method invented by Karl Marx and i personally think that it has great values but doesn't completely explain the situation we are in today. Mr. B knows all of this (including the russian language) better than i do because he is one of those intelligence types educated during the cold war. Like Robert Gates.

Actually I graduated from the Jackson School in '93, which is technically after the end of the Cold War. You are correct though, in that I am very familiar with the folly that is Marxist philosophy. I must say though, this is the first time that I have ever been compared to Bob Gates. :cool:

gumboot 6th July 2008 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress (Post 3838411)
To the fence-sitters or guests on this forum: Wherever people like Jon Gold are mentioned on the net, you'll immediately encounter people like JamesB and Brainster who'll try to associate these people with "space beams", "no planes", "controlled demoliton" etc. Don't believe me, just follow the pattern.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesB (Post 3838483)
That is not true, the space beam people will actually take a stand on something. It may be insanely stupid, but at least they will take a position. That is something that they have over Gold.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brainster (Post 3838501)
Jon Gold does not generally bring up any of those elements of the conspiracy theory. He feels free to associate with those who do, like Hopsicker, with whom he shared billing with at Justin's little gathering. Note that he talks about his "Truth Tuesday" movie showings; among the movies shown were distinctly MIHOP films like Loose Change Final Cut. Sorry, he can't have it both ways. I'd have to listen to that Opie & Anthony appearance again, but I suspect he was pushing controlled demolition a few years ago, it's just recently that he's adopted this "9-11 Truth is not MIHOP or LIHOP, it's JAQing and air quality too."

How embarrassing...

gumboot 6th July 2008 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress (Post 3838752)
Yeah, i didn't name you explicitely, Gummi. Sorry about that but you tend to show up only where someone mentions the astonishing failure of american air defense on that day. And we all remember your break after they've told your dad that talking about NZ military procedures is a no-no. I had funny student jobs too, but hey!


I find you amusing...

gumboot 6th July 2008 06:24 PM

By the way, I've corrected you before about my username. It's "Gumboot", not "Gummi". Please desist with your childish attempts at an insult.

kookbreaker 6th July 2008 06:26 PM

The last video I saw from the clown Jon Gold was him trying to pwn Abby Scott by asking her lots of irrelevant questions and not letting her get a word in edgewise.

He put it up beaming proudly about his 'accomplishment' but then even his own fellow twoofers told him what an ass he looked like and so he removed it. He has been trying to lose the stench of embarassment ever since.

Yeah, I doubt I'll be watching anything from the Gold clown.

Cl1mh4224rd 6th July 2008 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crungy (Post 3838648)
Wasn't Jon Gold the gentleman who physically threatened Abby Scott a coupla years back?


If I remember correctly, he attempted to intimidate her by basically getting in her face and staring her down with his hulking mass. He's a real classy guy.

Childlike Empress 6th July 2008 06:48 PM

Is Abby Scott still the sweetheart of that conspiracy theorist posting on the LCF?

Sword_Of_Truth 6th July 2008 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress (Post 3838625)
"Scientific Materialism" is the science or method invented by Karl Marx and i blah, blah, blah, blah...

Oh frakking hell... marxism.

AKA the 20th centurys OTHER major cause of genocide (and one not without its own streak of anti-semitism too).

No wonder the 9/11 truth movement obsesses about "them" setting up concentration/labor/death camps so much. It's exactly what they would, and have done, in the same position. :p

Cl1mh4224rd 6th July 2008 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress (Post 3838823)
Is Abby Scott still the sweetheart of that conspiracy theorist posting on the LCF?


I thought this thread was about Jon Gold...

VespaGuy 6th July 2008 06:54 PM

@Childlike Empress

Maybe my previous post went unread because I'm not "Big Wig" debunker. Let me try again...

You claimed that posters on this forum try to associate Gold with "No Planers", etc, although you never say if they are correct in doing so. So here are my questions:

Are they wrong to associate Gold with "space beams"? "controlled demolition"? "No planes"?

Does Gold think that CD is a possibility?

Thanks...

qarnos 6th July 2008 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesB (Post 3838577)
If you don't have access to evidence than how has the truth movement managed to create 500 YouTube videos and even a dozen or so books proclaiming what irrefutable evidence of an inside job they have? You had better let Richard Gage know that he has no evidence. He doesn't seem to be aware of this fact.

Good point. I believe Alex Jones has all the evidence. Total evidence, even. Perhaps CE could ask him to share it with her?

Hokulele 6th July 2008 07:29 PM

Well, that was a lovely example of appeal to emotion and cherry-picking. Even Gold admitted, "I don't know if this is true, but . . ." and then carries on as if it were true. If that is the strongest case supporting the assertion that the 9/11 Commission Report is flawed, well, I would hate to see the weakest one.

And yes, there were problems with the 9/11 Commission and subsequent report, but the claims in that video are unsupported. Hint, the full quotes and context tell a different story. In addition, the accusation against Gold (he doesn't claim anything himself) seems to be true. Any strong statement is qualified by putting the words in someone else's mouth.

As beachnut would say, "So many words, so few facts."

VespaGuy 6th July 2008 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress (Post 3838859)
@VespaGuy: Yes, they are wrong.

So Gold does not think that CD is a possibility, correct?

Crungy 6th July 2008 07:33 PM

This picture of Jon just screams out, "Darwin lied!"


Edited by Lisa Simpson:  Edited to remove inappropriate content.

Childlike Empress 6th July 2008 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VespaGuy (Post 3838907)
So Gold does not think that CD is a possibility, correct?


I don't know if he thinks CD is a possibility. I think it is, but i think it is very unlikely and, here i think Gold and i agree, it is not the best point to make to people who think there is nothing more to 9/11 than the MSM tells.

And? What is your point? Anything other but attempts at demonizing people?

Childlike Empress 6th July 2008 08:00 PM

And as we are on page two of this thread already, feel free to discuss the content of the video - after i've defended the territory against the usual toothless carnivores, we should be able to do it without interferences. At least YOU should be able to - i go to bed, CU!


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