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Captain_Swoop 16th April 2020 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Atheist (Post 13057292)
Nice match.

Final total raised is 12m

Captain_Swoop 16th April 2020 01:44 AM

UK cancels order for simple ventilators, needs more complex ones

Quote:

Britain has cancelled an order for thousands of units of a simple model of ventilator developed by industrial companies to treat COVID-19 because more sophisticated devices are now needed
Quote:

“We are no longer supporting the production of the BlueSky device following a reassessment of the product’s viability in light of the ever developing picture around what is needed to most effectively treat COVID-19,” said a spokesman for the Cabinet Office
Quote:

More than 30,000 ventilators in total have been ordered from various consortia of firms from sectors including aerospace, engineering and Formula One.
With several projects competing for the same components, which are in limited supply, the government decided to prioritise more sophisticated devices and cancel the BlueSky order with immediate effect
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKCN21U0UI

So it turns out that it’s quite difficult to design a complex piece of medical equipment in a couple of weeks even if you are British, who knew?

The Don 16th April 2020 01:56 AM

Don't know whether this belongs here or in the Brexit thread:

Quote:

Eastern European farm workers are being flown to the UK on charter flights to pick fruit and vegetable crops.

Air Charter Service has told the BBC that the first flight will land on Thursday in Stansted carrying 150 Romanian farm workers.

The firm told the BBC that the plane is the first of up to six set to operate between mid-April and the end of June.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52293061

Seems we need those horrible foreigners after all and the Great British Public aren't going to move hundreds of miles to perform back-breaking labour for minimum wage.

Quote:

British farmers recently warned that crops could be left to rot in the field because of a shortage of seasonal workers from Eastern Europe. Travel restrictions due to the coronavirus lockdown have meant most workers have stayed at home.

Several UK growers have launched a recruitment drive, calling for local workers to join the harvest to prevent millions of tonnes of fruit and vegetables going to waste. However, concerns remain that they won't be able to fulfil the demand on farms.
It's certainly harder work than I'd be prepared to, or possibly be able to, do. :o

Quote:

He added that the company had had a good response to a recruitment campaign aimed at local workers. So far, 500 British people have registered their interest.
Let's see how many people actually turn up and, more importantly, how many keep turning up day after day once they realise how exhausting and poorly paid the work is.

Captain_Swoop 16th April 2020 02:04 AM

I posted something in the Brexit thread

Captain_Swoop 16th April 2020 02:06 AM

Sun and Mail today calling for a George Cross to be awarded to the NHS and a knighthood for the pensioner raising funds for the NHS by walking round his garden.
It's all a distraction I suppose.

Captain_Swoop 16th April 2020 02:44 AM

Another Tory minister Helen Whately is implying NHS workers are in some way responsible for the shortages of Personal Protective Equipment because they are misusing it.
She's blaming Doctors and nurses who are literally dying because of the abject failure of this Tory Govt for the shortages.

Squeegee Beckenheim 16th April 2020 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13057845)
Another Tory minister Helen Whately is implying NHS workers are in some way responsible for the shortages of Personal Protective Equipment because they are misusing it.
She's blaming Doctors and nurses who are literally dying because of the abject failure of this Tory Govt for the shortages.

She got torn to shreds on TV for laughing repeatedly during an interview with Piers Morgan.

You have absolutely no idea how calling it is as a Brit to feel that Piers Morgan is right about something.

Darat 16th April 2020 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Planigale (Post 13057198)
On this site, it is interesting how many people will jump to report a twitter feed or other dubious source as fact because it addresses their preconceived notions.

A good example is the fake Dyson narrative;

Fake narrative.


True Narrative


Why make up a fake report?

One new design is going into mass production https://www.theguardian.com/business...nlon-regulator

Darat 16th April 2020 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13057282)
Hancock praised 99-year-old Captain Tom Moore for raising £7m for the NHS by walking round his garden. That £7m is roughly what the Conservative government has taken out of the NHS daily for10 years.


Nice of him to do this but what is he raising the money for? The NHSs we have been assured will get everything it needs at the moment.

The Don 16th April 2020 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13057845)
Another Tory minister Helen Whately is implying NHS workers are in some way responsible for the shortages of Personal Protective Equipment because they are misusing it.
She's blaming Doctors and nurses who are literally dying because of the abject failure of this Tory Govt for the shortages.

That is the preferred approach of the right wing - blame the victims at every possible opportunity. President Trump is the master but Boris Johnson and his lackeys are learning quickly.

The next step will be to suggest that NHS workers are stealing PPE, possibly for use at home. Suggesting that they are selling it may backfire, it will highlight how poorly NHS staff are paid. At the moment doctors and nurses are the nation's heroes so perhaps the "right" people to blame are foreign porters and cleaners - which will give an excellent reason to send them packing as soon as the Coronavirus crisis is over. :rolleyes:

sphenisc 16th April 2020 05:06 AM

NM

sphenisc 16th April 2020 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim (Post 13057868)
She got torn to shreds on TV for laughing repeatedly during an interview with Piers Morgan.

You have absolutely no idea how calling it is as a Brit to feel that Piers Morgan is right about something.

It was a shocking interview. I suspect she'll either be fired, or decide to resign and spend as much time with her family as she currently is.

Planigale 16th April 2020 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13057896)
Why make up a fake report?

One new design is going into mass production https://www.theguardian.com/business...nlon-regulator

I have no idea why people make up fake reports, there does seem to be a widely reported phenomenon of 'fake news'. Often people see something on e.g. twitter or a web site that supports their preconceived notion of what is happening they then repeat the message perhaps with a slight alteration of which they are not aware. Then it gets repeated. I would have hoped that people posting here would try and fact check. It is alleged that sometimes these are deliberate disinformation campaigns from hostile foreign agencies.

I think the Dyson case is a good example of a false narrative. Elevated to a CT. So you have the tale of someone who donated £millions to the conservative party (evidence?) who was given a contract (untrue) because of the donation, rather than a contract being given to extant ventilator manufacturers (untrue). Who had no experience in designing medical equipment (untrue as it was a partnership with a medical equipment design company). So invested in this narrative were some posters that they preferred to believe that someone who questions the narrative has been bribed. Dyson may or may not win a contract for ventilator manufacturing, but the product should be judged on its merits and the process of bidding truthfully represented not turned into political propaganda and personality assassination with allegations of criminal behaviour when nothing of the sort took place.

Squeegee Beckenheim 16th April 2020 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sphenisc (Post 13057930)
It was a shocking interview. I suspect she'll either be fired, or decide to resign and spend as much time with her family as she currently is.

She's a Tory. I expect she'll issue an "I'm sorry if some people were offended" non-apology, and carry on as if nothing had happened.

KDLarsen 16th April 2020 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13056705)

Sounds like the dowsing rod is making yet another comeback. A device that sounds familiar made the rounds in Iraq and Afghanistan in the previous decade, pretending to be a bomb detector.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADE_651

Mojo 16th April 2020 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KDLarsen (Post 13058151)
Sounds like the dowsing rod is making yet another comeback. A device that sounds familiar made the rounds in Iraq and Afghanistan in the previous decade, pretending to be a bomb detector.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADE_651


There was another similar gadget that was supposed to detect hepatitis C a few years back: https://www.theguardian.com/science/...tor-sells-hope

Mader Levap 16th April 2020 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Planigale (Post 13057965)
So you have the tale of someone who donated £millions to the conservative party (evidence?)

I take it back. It seems there are no information about "millions" in donations from Dyson to conservatives in sources considered widely as "reputable". My personal opinion about billionaires donating to political parties and why they do it didn't change, of course.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Planigale (Post 13057965)
who was given a contract (untrue)

Someone would wonder how government can order (this is word that most news used for it) some supplies (even conditionally) without contract. :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Planigale (Post 13057965)
because of the donation, rather than a contract being given to extant ventilator manufacturers (untrue).

It is well known fact that actual medical companies were discriminated against, sometimes with ridiculous excuses. Also UK for some reason didn't really want to acquire ventilators from other countries.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ventilator-row

Quote:

Originally Posted by Planigale (Post 13057965)
Who had no experience in designing medical equipment (untrue as it was a partnership with a medical equipment design company).

Newsflash: partnering with medical company does NOT make your company a medical company. Brought to you by captain Obvious. :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Planigale (Post 13057965)
So invested in this narrative were some posters that they preferred to believe that someone who questions the narrative has been bribed.

That line was sarcastic remark. But I already know about your reading comprehension problems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Planigale (Post 13057965)
Dyson may or may not win a contract for ventilator manufacturing, but the product should be judged on its merits and the process of bidding truthfully represented not turned into political propaganda and personality assassination with allegations of criminal behaviour when nothing of the sort took place.

You can believe Dyson got that business from UK's government out of good heart of BoJo, not because Dyson has preferential treatment due to his standing with conservative party and his status as member, donor and billionaire. Unlike some people I am not fool and I won't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13057813)
So it turns out that itís quite difficult to design a complex piece of medical equipment in a couple of weeks even if you are British, who knew?

Somehow I think even if Dyson's contraption turns out to be also such "simple" ventilator, order for them won't be cancelled.

Planigale 16th April 2020 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mader Levap (Post 13058328)
I take it back. It seems there are no information about "millions" in donations from Dyson to conservatives in sources considered widely as "reputable". My personal opinion about billionaires donating to political parties and why they do it didn't change, of course.


Someone would wonder how government can order (this is word that most news used for it) some supplies (even conditionally) without contract. :rolleyes:


It is well known fact that actual medical companies were discriminated against, sometimes with ridiculous excuses. Also UK for some reason didn't really want to acquire ventilators from other countries.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ventilator-row


Newsflash: partnering with medical company does NOT make your company a medical company. Brought to you by captain Obvious. :rolleyes:


That line was sarcastic remark. But I already know about your reading comprehension problems.


You can believe Dyson got that business from UK's government out of good heart of BoJo, not because Dyson has preferential treatment due to his standing with conservative party and his status as member, donor and billionaire. Unlike some people I am not fool and I won't.



Somehow I think even if Dyson's contraption turns out to be also such "simple" ventilator, order for them won't be cancelled.

The fallacy is that a 'simple' ventilator is a bad thing. Modern ITU ventilators are complex their interface is not easy to use. Many of the staff working on ITUs are from anaesthesia and theatres or surgery, not familiar with complex ventilators. A ventilator with a complex interface has room for errors. E.g. I was carrying out a procedure on a patient with Covid on ITU, I needed the patient to stop breathing for a short period, it several minutes to work out how to put the ventilator into pause mode. A simple ventilator for staff who are not regularly working on ITU may be safer than a complex ventilator.

I am glad you accept that James Dyson although a billionaire has donated £100s millions to training engineers and not to political parties so your allegations of bribery or corruption were unfounded.

Please provide evidence that actual medical companies were discriminated against. It may be well known to you, but I am in the trade and it is not well known to me. I think that like your £millions donated to the conservative party this is fake news.

Your comment about my reading comprehension problems is another ad hominem, can you really not follow the guidelines and address the argument and not the arguer? I don't want to report you to the mods but if you keep on insulting me rather than dealing in the facts I will. I have never made an insulting comment about you. You have insulted me with every post. I do respect you for your admission that Dyson is not a massive donor to a political party. I think that makes you a truly strong person to admit when you are in error, don't spoil it by trying to bully me.

The successful bid reported above was by a combination of non-medical engineering companies partnering with a medical engineering company; this is the sort of collaboration needed to deal with a crisis. I think it is to be applauded not denigrated. I accept that is my opinion not a fact.

Captain_Swoop 16th April 2020 01:44 PM

Coronavirus lockdown: Police guidelines give 'reasonable excuses' to go out

Quote:

Police have been told to stop people "home-working" in parks or sitting on a public bench for long periods of time.

Guidance to officers in England says neither activity is likely to be a "reasonable excuse" for someone to leave their home in the lockdown.

But the advice from police leaders and trainers says that people can move to a friend's address for a cooling-off period "following arguments at home".

It says such moves must be "genuine" and "measured in days, not hours".

The three-page document, entitled "what constitutes a reasonable excuse to leave the place where you live", is designed to help police enforce the emergency restrictions that came into effect three weeks ago and are set to be extended.

It has been produced by the National Police Chiefs' Council (NPCC) and the College of Policing, and appears to be drawn from guidelines issued by the Crown Prosecution Service.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-52312560

a_unique_person 16th April 2020 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13057813)
UK cancels order for simple ventilators, needs more complex ones







https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKCN21U0UI

So it turns out that itís quite difficult to design a complex piece of medical equipment in a couple of weeks even if you are British, who knew?

Did they run out of belts and braces?

quadraginta 16th April 2020 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Atheist (Post 13057553)
I must say, Jacinda's signal today is a masterclass of common sense and helping the economy.

Workers will return to most employers, but only contactless business can be done, so expect an explosion of Uber eats immediately.

<snip>


Uber Eats must be expecting something similar here in the States.

In a clear demonstration of synchronicity, only thirty minutes or so before I read your post I had an email from Uber Eats in my Inbox advertising their new subscription service for delivery fee free deliveries from local restaurants. Only $9.99/month. First month free. Average saving of $3 to $4 per order!!!

I went to look at the Uber Eats page, and in what I am quite certain is purely coincidence ...

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

... nearly all of the local providers had begun charging $3 to $4 dollar delivery fees. Last week most of them were either free or token charges of around $0.99.

Note that this is (and has been) in addition to the "service" fee Uber Eats tacks on, and the driver tip which doesn't seem to be voluntary (you can chose between 10, 15, or 20%). A $50 order I made last week, with no delivery fee, cost a bit over $70.

The Atheist 16th April 2020 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quadraginta (Post 13058693)
Uber Eats must be expecting something similar here in the States.

Someone profiteering from a crisis? No way!

Samson 16th April 2020 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quadraginta (Post 13058693)
Uber Eats must be expecting something similar here in the States.

In a clear demonstration of synchronicity, only thirty minutes or so before I read your post I had an email from Uber Eats in my Inbox advertising their new subscription service for delivery fee free deliveries from local restaurants. Only $9.99/month. First month free. Average saving of $3 to $4 per order!!!

I went to look at the Uber Eats page, and in what I am quite certain is purely coincidence ...

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

... nearly all of the local providers had begun charging $3 to $4 dollar delivery fees. Last week most of them were either free or token charges of around $0.99.

Note that this is (and has been) in addition to the "service" fee Uber Eats tacks on, and the driver tip which doesn't seem to be voluntary (you can chose between 10, 15, or 20%). A $50 order I made last week, with no delivery fee, cost a bit over $70.

Uber eats has destroyed wealth for New Zealand youth, merely recalling that a fool and his money are soon parted.
Covid will surely drive warehouse to door for almost everything, hopefully sacks of rice and flour will feature for the young fools.
Politics of Green.

Minoosh 16th April 2020 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo (Post 13057017)
Sounds like baloney to me.

Ha ha.

Minoosh 16th April 2020 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13057917)
That is the preferred approach of the right wing - blame the victims at every possible opportunity. President Trump is the master but Boris Johnson and his lackeys are learning quickly.

The next step will be to suggest that NHS workers are stealing PPE, possibly for use at home. Suggesting that they are selling it may backfire, it will highlight how poorly NHS staff are paid. At the moment doctors and nurses are the nation's heroes so perhaps the "right" people to blame are foreign porters and cleaners - which will give an excellent reason to send them packing as soon as the Coronavirus crisis is over. :rolleyes:

Fortunately Brexit means hundreds of million of pounds will flow weekly into the NHS, right?

The Don 16th April 2020 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minoosh (Post 13058859)
Fortunately Brexit means hundreds of million of pounds will flow weekly into the NHS, right?

Well, to be fair there are hundreds of millions of extra pounds flowing into the NHS at the moment, cost is no object in the face of Coronavirus.

Whether this largesse continues if and when Coronavirus is under control is an entirely different matter.

Captain_Swoop 17th April 2020 01:57 AM

Dame Vera Lynn has sent a personal message to Captain Tom as has Prince William to thank him for his fund raising.
As far as I’m concerned, anybody who doesn’t hang a 30 foot poppy on their house in November should go and live in ISIS.

Captain_Swoop 17th April 2020 02:17 AM

Two people eat some chips together on a deserted beach and the police take out their tazers.
Hundreds of people gather on Westminster Bridge so people can see how great they are for clapping the NHS and the police join in.
perhaps we’re not thinking big enough.
Maybe next week we could fill Wembley Stadium with appreciative members of the public, put all the staff from the hospitals on the pitch and show them how much we really love the NHS.

Squeegee Beckenheim 17th April 2020 03:30 AM

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1250754847353327617

Quote:

Boris Johnson’s spokesman says the UK will never ask to extend the Brexit transition period "and if the EU asks to we will say no.”
Article embedded in tweet.

Not directly related to the coronavirus, but I've definitely seen it assumed by many sources that extending the transition period was a given with the Tories just holding off on the announcement in order to avoid any extra potential crash of the stock markets.

But it seems that no, they're still committed to doing something incredibly damaging to the economy while the economy is in a terrible and worsening state.

Captain_Swoop 17th April 2020 03:46 AM

Interesting that Hancock said "early signs" show that hydroxychloroquine may be "very effective treatment" for Covid19.
He implied UK government is acquiring significant stocks of it.

Squeegee Beckenheim 17th April 2020 03:59 AM

More allegations the UK government is ignoring firms who could be making PPE

The Don 17th April 2020 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13059287)
Interesting that Hancock said "early signs" show that hydroxychloroquine may be "very effective treatment" for Covid19.
He implied UK government is acquiring significant stocks of it.

Very interesting, not least because it runs counter to the results of scientific studies in China and Brazil.


edited to add....

Then again, the reference I could find was in the Daily Express so it may not necessarily be the full story.

Captain_Swoop 17th April 2020 04:54 AM

We are very quickly accepting that the NHS is something we raise money for rather than something the government is meant to fund.

Men in their 90s shouldn't need to be doing sponsored walks for the NHS.

ceptimus 17th April 2020 05:02 AM

It's not the people doing the sponsored thing that actually raises the money - it's the people who do the giving. If we didn't have a 99-year-old walking round his garden, people would sponsor a disabled person climbing stairs, or a blind kid painting rainbows or whatever.

Nessie 17th April 2020 05:57 AM

This is not the only example, where last night's applause for carers, involved widespread ignoring of social distancing rules, including the police.

https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/17/peopl...ital-12569129/

Westminster Bridge was packed.

Darat 17th April 2020 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a_unique_person (Post 13058595)
Did they run out of belts and braces?


No out of Spitfire propellers

Darat 17th April 2020 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13059216)
Dame Vera Lynn has sent a personal message to Captain Tom as has Prince William to thank him for his fund raising.
As far as Iím concerned, anybody who doesnít hang a 30 foot poppy on their house in November should go and live in ISIS.


Why? Why was this bloke doing this? We have been told the NHSs can have whatever they need so quite seriously where is this money going to be used?

Darat 17th April 2020 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim (Post 13059293)


But theyíve set up a hotline!

Darat 17th April 2020 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13059322)
Very interesting, not least because it runs counter to the results of scientific studies in China and Brazil.


edited to add....

Then again, the reference I could find was in the Daily Express so it may not necessarily be the full story.


Depends, would it have saved Dianaís life?

Darat 17th April 2020 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nessie (Post 13059388)
This is not the only example, where last night's applause for carers, involved widespread ignoring of social distancing rules, including the police.

https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/17/peopl...ital-12569129/

Westminster Bridge was packed.


I find these types of displays disgusting, it is (and as much as I hate the term it is sometimes the only accurate term) 100% virtue signalling


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