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Carrot Flower King 28th July 2021 05:31 AM

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...-claims-review

I'm putting this in UK Politics as all NHS trust CEO appointments are political, they exemplify the political interference in healthcare provision and this one relates especially to Matt Hancock.

It also exemplifies what Carrot Flower Queen, my sister and I all experienced over decades of working for many different NHS trusts: managers repeatedly engage in bullying behaviours, to the point of illegality (over and above their general uselessness and ignorance of clinical issues and patient care), and when caught out resign to avoid any repercussions. Some go on to repeat the behaviours at other organisations without anyone questioning their suitability for the jobs.

This is the third senior manager at West Suffolk to have resigned before the report comes out; all 3 must have known and approved the victimisation of clinicians or, if they didn't, were so ******* useless that they don't know ther own arses from someone else's elbows and should, thus, have been nowhere near running a large acute hospital.

Captain_Swoop 28th July 2021 05:47 AM

Not unique to NHS.
It's how managers and execs behave in every organisation.
Jump before the **** hits the fan and get a similar job somewhere else.

Remember, expertise in the field isn't needed. A good manager can manage anything, it's a skill in it's own right as we were all told in the 80s and 90s.

In fact, I worked with a manager at a publishing company that thought it was better if he had no expertise in the field. Any previous experience would have 'coloured' his approach to the job of managing his department in the most efficient way.

His previous post had been with a catering company and before that he was in retail.

Pixel42 28th July 2021 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13551294)
Not unique to NHS.
It's how managers and execs behave in every organisation.
Jump before the **** hits the fan and get a similar job somewhere else.

Remember, expertise in the field isn't needed. A good manager can manage anything, it's a skill in it's own right as we were all told in the 80s and 90s.

In fact, I worked with a manager at a publishing company that thought it was better if he had no expertise in the field. Any previous experience would have 'coloured' his approach to the job of managing his department in the most efficient way.

His previous post had been with a catering company and before that he was in retail.

Yes, Minister had fun with the cult of the generalist. There was an episode where it emerged that a mistake made by a junior civil servant years ago, which was going to cost the taxpayer millions, had actually been made by Sir Humphrey. It contained the classic line "Well obviously I wasn't a trained lawyer, or I wouldn't have been in charge of the legal department!".

Carrot Flower King 28th July 2021 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13551294)
Remember, expertise in the field isn't needed. A good manager can manage anything, it's a skill in it's own right as we were all told in the 80s and 90s.

As we are told by managerialists, without any evidence to support it. Self-interested claims and no more. The sort who claim there is such a thing as "management science"...

I have never observed this in the real world, and nor do I know anyone who has, having been frequently managed by folk without relevant knowledge and experience who were of no use to us at all as they had no idea what we did nor how nor why.

And we keep seeing the results of this approach: this is mostly why the NHS is so ****** up, that and the deliberate political messing. That said, I can point to several folk from clinical backgrounds who went on to become useless managers, indicating a broader problem with UK-ian management culture and attitudes. It's a closed shop and you have to buy into the prevailing belief system to gain admittance, questioning is not allowed and any deviation from the party line is stamped on.

I once asked a manager with a MBA to provide some justification for his suggested course of action (which was something we'd tried before and it didn't work and we knew why it didn't work) and all I got was "I've got a MBA and you haven't!" Which got a response of "But I do have a BSc and a RMN and some other post-reg/grad qualifications, so give it a try".

zooterkin 28th July 2021 06:56 AM

Open letter from the Police Federation (England and Wales) to the PM and the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

Quote:

In advance of the reception you are holding for police officers in Downing Street this
afternoon, the Police Federation of England and Wales wants to make absolutely clear the
strength of feeling among our members about your government’s attitude to, and
treatment of, our members. As the undisputed voice of policing, representing 130,000 rank
and file officers across 43 forces, we cannot stand by and allow the present situation to
continue.
It is hard to overstate the anger that many feel that they are taken for granted, and not
treated with the respect that their contribution to the good of the country merits.
...

We are now calling for a complete reset of the relationship between government and
the police, starting with the following three requests:

1. Stop taking police officers for granted and treat them with respect;
2. Agree to work with us on an entirely new and fairer system of remuneration
decision-making; and,
3. Reverse the zero percent pay award decision and give our police officers a
meaningful pay increase.

Vixen 28th July 2021 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King (Post 13551279)
https://www.theguardian.com/society/...-claims-review

I'm putting this in UK Politics as all NHS trust CEO appointments are political, they exemplify the political interference in healthcare provision and this one relates especially to Matt Hancock.

It also exemplifies what Carrot Flower Queen, my sister and I all experienced over decades of working for many different NHS trusts: managers repeatedly engage in bullying behaviours, to the point of illegality (over and above their general uselessness and ignorance of clinical issues and patient care), and when caught out resign to avoid any repercussions. Some go on to repeat the behaviours at other organisations without anyone questioning their suitability for the jobs.

This is the third senior manager at West Suffolk to have resigned before the report comes out; all 3 must have known and approved the victimisation of clinicians or, if they didn't, were so ******* useless that they don't know ther own arses from someone else's elbows and should, thus, have been nowhere near running a large acute hospital.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose. When I worked at Brompton/Marsden/Frimley Hospital <mumble> years ago, the head honcho had been on garden leave for about six years already...on full head honcho pay. I think they got rid of him in the end but I think he got a fantastic pay-off including pension and perks.

Vixen 28th July 2021 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King (Post 13551327)
As we are told by managerialists, without any evidence to support it. Self-interested claims and no more. The sort who claim there is such a thing as "management science"...

I have never observed this in the real world, and nor do I know anyone who has, having been frequently managed by folk without relevant knowledge and experience who were of no use to us at all as they had no idea what we did nor how nor why.

And we keep seeing the results of this approach: this is mostly why the NHS is so ****** up, that and the deliberate political messing. That said, I can point to several folk from clinical backgrounds who went on to become useless managers, indicating a broader problem with UK-ian management culture and attitudes. It's a closed shop and you have to buy into the prevailing belief system to gain admittance, questioning is not allowed and any deviation from the party line is stamped on.

I once asked a manager with a MBA to provide some justification for his suggested course of action (which was something we'd tried before and it didn't work and we knew why it didn't work) and all I got was "I've got a MBA and you haven't!" Which got a response of "But I do have a BSc and a RMN and some other post-reg/grad qualifications, so give it a try".

The hospital guys are the CIPFA's. I worked in various departments, including the Brompton Trust. They were sitting on literally hundreds of millions of pounds of legacies and donations from their wealthy clientele (Princess Margaret was there for a spell whilst I worked there). It was hard to see the point of managing all those funds, just sitting there.

(Aside: Weird to see things like 'half a pony' turning up on the staff canteen 'provisions' catering invoices...)

Vixen 28th July 2021 07:44 AM

In today's news: Boris tackles an umberella...and the umbrella won.

https://twitter.com/davemacladd/stat...347046912?s=20

Carrot Flower King 28th July 2021 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vixen (Post 13551385)
Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose. When I worked at Brompton/Marsden/Frimley Hospital <mumble> years ago, the head honcho had been on garden leave for about six years already...on full head honcho pay. I think they got rid of him in the end but I think he got a fantastic pay-off including pension and perks.

Yup: I know of a couple of those.

But managers should be let loose to manage, except when it comes to dealing with difficult issues like this sort of thing...

quadraginta 28th July 2021 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vixen (Post 13551396)
In today's news: Boris tackles an umberella...and the umbrella won.

https://twitter.com/davemacladd/stat...347046912?s=20


Maybe he could get lessons from The Donald, who is (as in everything else) The World's Foremost Expert in umbrella wrangling ... and has the video to prove it.


ETA: Donnie's got a lot of free time on his hands these days. I'm sure he'd be tickled to death to come across the pond and help.

Captain_Swoop 29th July 2021 03:22 AM

No more evidence needed of the state of the UK under Boris Johnson than the RLNI having to issue a statement defending saving lives at sea.

Vixen 29th July 2021 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quadraginta (Post 13551720)
Maybe he could get lessons from The Donald, who is (as in everything else) The World's Foremost Expert in umbrella wrangling ... and has the video to prove it.


ETA: Donnie's got a lot of free time on his hands these days. I'm sure he'd be tickled to death to come across the pond and help.

Well, Bozo was supposed to be at a solemn memorial service for fallen police officers. Instead, he made it all about himself, chuckling and carrying on with a big grin. Everyone is laughing at him, not with him.

https://twitter.com/davemacladd/stat...007301124?s=20

Vixen 29th July 2021 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13552117)
No more evidence needed of the state of the UK under Boris Johnson than the RLNI having to issue a statement defending saving lives at sea.

It backfired on Nigel Farage who claimed the RNLI were a 'taxi service for illegal immigrants' and should return them to France. Imagine, Priti Patel bribed paid the French £54m to be our border guards.

<fx face palm>

For those who might have missed it, here was the RNLI* fierce response and good on them. The consequence was donations flooding in. (*Royal National Lifeboats Institution - a charity.)

https://twitter.com/RNLI/status/1420...746871834?s=20

Quote:

RNLI
@RNLI
·
Jul 28
We're proud of the lifesaving work our volunteers do in the Channel – we make no apology for it. Those we rescue are vulnerable people in danger & distress. Each of them is someone’s father, mother, son or daughter - every life is precious. This is why we launch:

Captain_Swoop 29th July 2021 03:41 AM

Typical comments on the RNLI twitter feed

"They know the risks and your operation encourages more to try this crossing. You will never get another penny from me to finance your illegal immigration ferry service. Why is it a lorry driver risks fines, prison time, loss of job and lorry for doing the same as you?"

"But every time they go out to these illegals a life boat is unavailable to the British public!!! Britain first!"

"Charity begins at home our British lifeboats are not for France"

"Aiding & abetting in illegal immigration is a crime. these crews should be in jail"

"I've halted my payments after 20 years to the @RNLI Funding you is making the problem worse."

"Lost my support... Another on the list who will not benefit on my death."

"Have you stopped and thought, while you are busy saving these people who are not welcome here, some poor hard working, tax paying British person could be drowning somewhere"

"I will not be contributing to this criminal organisation any more since you have decided to pick up migrants."

Captain_Swoop 29th July 2021 03:44 AM

Farage doubling down on his comments on his news show on GBnews

Nigel Farage
@Nigel_Farage
I stand by my comments that the @RNLI are being used as a taxi service for illegal trafficking gangs.
Here is my message to them after they picked a fight with me in The Guardian today.

Video from his GBnews program in link

https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/sta...69932761010178

One of his claims is that he has spoken to "angry" RNLI lifeboatmen, at least one of them has "resigned their position due to illegal immigration".
He has nothing to support this of course.

Vixen 29th July 2021 03:44 AM

This guy here, explains that only 6% of asylum seekers head for the UK, 17th place overall. So much for the disinformation that these are benefit cheats looking for free housing and UK benefits. To listen to Farage, the SUN and the general media, one could be forgiven for thinking we are being invaded by hordes and hordes of ne'er do well chancers. Even bringing little children to gain sympathy.

Quote:

If you are asking: Why don't they stay in France/EU?

Most do. Only 6% of refugees head to the UK. We are 17th on the list of first-time asylum applications per 1000 of population

Those heading for UK either speak English, have existing contacts or colonial links to the country
https://twitter.com/nmorris01/status...684476933?s=20

Vixen 29th July 2021 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13552131)
Typical comments on the RNLI twitter feed

"They know the risks and your operation encourages more to try this crossing. You will never get another penny from me to finance your illegal immigration ferry service. Why is it a lorry driver risks fines, prison time, loss of job and lorry for doing the same as you?"

"But every time they go out to these illegals a life boat is unavailable to the British public!!! Britain first!"

<snip>

If you saw a drowning ill eagle or Nigel Farage, who would you save first?

It's the good old British politics of envy. How come they are getting rescued from drowning and not me?

Er...

Captain_Swoop 29th July 2021 09:44 AM

The RNLI says it has been "overwhelmed" by a "huge level of support" following accusations its work is assisting migrants.

The lifeboat charity received over £200,000 in donations in 24 hours after it posted rescue footage on social media.

The former UKIP leader, Nigel Farage, said it was being used as a "taxi service for illegal trafficking gangs".

Downing Street has praised its "vital work".

The charity said in the same 24 hour period there had been a 270% increase in people viewing volunteering opportunities on its website. It would normally receive up to £7,000 in daily donations.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58009646

Carrot Flower King 29th July 2021 09:49 AM

Does this mean that Farage must change his name to Streisand? That would amuse me...

Captain_Swoop 29th July 2021 10:52 AM

GB News tweeted
@GBNEWS
"I have no desire to pick a fight with the RNLI, all I was doing is pointing out the truth. But if you, the bosses in Poole, want to pick a fight with me, that's fine by me, I've fought people bigger and uglier than you"
Nigel hits back at the RNLI

Carrot Flower King 29th July 2021 10:56 AM

If any of the Brexit-voting berks still doubt that Farage is a despicable, lying twat...

ponderingturtle 29th July 2021 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King (Post 13552467)
If any of the Brexit-voting berks still doubt that Farage is a despicable, lying twat...

I thought that was what they liked about him.

Captain_Swoop 29th July 2021 01:49 PM

The number of people prepared to attack the RNLI for doing their job is worrying.
For 200 years they have saved lives at sea. Every lifeboat (apart from one that I can expand upon if needed) is and was crewed by volunteers dedicated to saving lives.
It seems that in modern Britain only some lives are worth saving and respecting international conventions that Britain is a part of establishing should be ignored.

BillC 29th July 2021 03:38 PM

Gary Lineker for the win:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Lineker
Keep up the great work @RNLI because as some of your disparagers repeatedly told us All Lives Matter.


Captain_Swoop 29th July 2021 06:02 PM

Not those lives obviously!

Worm 29th July 2021 06:30 PM

What exactly does Farage expect the RNLI to do? Start demanding sight of a passport before they'll rescue anybody? Tool.

gypsyjackson 29th July 2021 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worm (Post 13552898)
What exactly does Farage expect the RNLI to do? Start demanding sight of a passport before they'll rescue anybody? Tool.

I expect he’d like them to do a skin colour based assessment.

P.J. Denyer 30th July 2021 02:10 AM

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...3c1eb64ada.jpg

Captain_Swoop 30th July 2021 03:10 AM

Ok so let me get this straight;
Nurses - Clap
RNLI - Boo

Unless the first ask for a proper wage and the second stop saving lives of darkies..

Darat 30th July 2021 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13553203)
Ok so let me get this straight;
Nurses - Clap
RNLI - Boo

Unless the first ask for a proper wage and the second stop saving lives of darkies..

Wait until some folk find out that our NHSs treat asylum seekers who have health issues!

Darat 30th July 2021 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worm (Post 13552898)
What exactly does Farage expect the RNLI to do? Start demanding sight of a passport before they'll rescue anybody? Tool.

Get him publicity. That is it. He has carved out a second career by specialising in hatred.

Captain_Swoop 31st July 2021 04:52 AM

BTec qualifications should not be scrapped in England, say groups representing students and staff in schools, colleges and universities.

The plea comes as the Department for Education confirmed plans to introduce new technical qualifications in England and scrap most BTecs.

The department says the reforms will simplify and streamline the system.

Separate to this is a plan to introduce Latin lessons in to state schools to end it's 'elitist status'
Officials believe studying Latin will help pupils learn more modern languages and will also help them with maths and English.

Is there no end to piss poor ideas?

Carrot Flower King 31st July 2021 06:58 AM

I did 2 years of Latin and all it has been useful for is deciphering some Linnaean binomials and seeing through a load of Johnson's "Boris" schtick, not to mention Rees-Mogg's blether. Oh, and working out medical terms which medics were supposed to stop using decades ago but still insist on using.

Aside from that all it was good for was boosting my average exam score for those 2 years as I found it piss easy. And, yes, this was a state school back in the '70s.

Carrot Flower King 31st July 2021 07:10 AM

https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...daries-england

The comments by Mary Beard and Jimmy Mulville quoted in this piece are really not helpful, as they conflate studying Latin with studying classical civilisations. The Latin I learned had nothing at all to do with studying classical Roman society or literature, but was all to do with the language per se, declensions this, ablative that, dative the other. And surely studying Rome is history? Why should it given especial dispensation over any other bit of history?

And, if Latin is to be taught what is to be removed from the finite space on the existing syllabus? Or has Williamson found a way to squeeze more time out of a day?

jimbob 31st July 2021 07:21 AM

I liked this:

Quote:

Atheist Ape Man
@AtheistApeMan
Replying to
@DanKaszeta
I'll give 50p to the
@RNLI
for everyone you jab today.

C'mon Dan, do it for Nigel!
9:09 AM · Jul 31, 2021·Twitter Web App
https://twitter.com/AtheistApeMan/st...82372147318786

Captain_Swoop 31st July 2021 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King (Post 13554356)
https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...daries-england

The comments by Mary Beard and Jimmy Mulville quoted in this piece are really not helpful, as they conflate studying Latin with studying classical civilisations. The Latin I learned had nothing at all to do with studying classical Roman society or literature, but was all to do with the language per se, declensions this, ablative that, dative the other. And surely studying Rome is history? Why should it given especial dispensation over any other bit of history?

And, if Latin is to be taught what is to be removed from the finite space on the existing syllabus? Or has Williamson found a way to squeeze more time out of a day?

Apparently it is supposed to include visits to 'Roman sites' as part of 'raising awareness' of ancient history.

As we all know, learning about the Romans and Ancient Greeks is the most important thing you can do apart from learn their long dead languages of course.

GlennB 31st July 2021 07:52 AM

"Learning Latin helps you learn other European languages"? Maybe it does, but so does learning Italian, Spanish or any other such language. The advantage of the latter is that you're learning a living language and, at the very least, might enjoy your holidays abroad a little more.

I recall a friend - who'd been forced to spend several years at school regularly conjugating Latin verbs, declining nouns and translating Virgil - that it helps medical students. I was happy to point out that I learned a load of medical stuff by studying *gasp* biology at school. Oh, and also that loads of medical terminology derives from Greek roots - micro-./megalo-, endo-/exo-, hyper-/hypo-, epi-, peri-, meta-, paediatrics, geriatrics, dermatology, cardiology etc etbloodycetera.

Williamson is a wanker.

Captain_Swoop 31st July 2021 08:03 AM

How will you get a job in the Civil Service if you can't pass the Latin exam?

Wudang 31st July 2021 08:19 AM

"Yes, I could have been a Judge but I never had the Latin."


Never mind modern languages, how the <expletive> does Latin help you with maths? Would it have made the Heine Borel theorem easier for me to get?

zooterkin 31st July 2021 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wudang (Post 13554425)
"Yes, I could have been a Judge but I never had the Latin."


Never mind modern languages, how the <expletive> does Latin help you with maths? Would it have made the Heine Borel theorem easier for me to get?

You'd have understood the ending of the proof, at least. :)


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