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-   -   The Marjorie Taylor Greene thread. (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=347945)

eerok 3rd May 2021 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belz... (Post 13470144)
Isn't that true for most humans?

I think it's a flaw most strongly evident in those who push self-righteous religious faith. Their self-image pretty much relies on this level of certainty (and delusion of superiority).

So I'd say it's a sliding scale.

JoeMorgue 3rd May 2021 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruto (Post 13470157)
One of the things that continues to surprise me is that many of the people in question do not actually operate in their own best interest.

They are. Their "best interest" (such as it is) right now is hurting other people.

They aren't trying to make things better for themselves. They are trying to make it worse for everybody.

"Spite" is now a very, very major mover and shaker in politics.

bruto 3rd May 2021 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13470172)
They are. Their "best interest" (such as it is) right now is hurting other people.

They aren't trying to make things better for themselves. They are trying to make it worse for everybody.

"Spite" is now a very, very major mover and shaker in politics.

I suppose it depends on how both you and they define "best interest." Many define their best interest in economic terms, and vote for corrupt thieves and liars. Many define their best interest in other terms which are consistently violated by those they support. Better health, freedom, small government, Christian values, and so forth. Of course if you get psychological, you can point out that their best interests are what they support, not what they claim to support, and in that sense, of course, you're bound to be right. The covid denier who dies of covid with denial in his last words can be seen either way, depending on how you slice the term.

dudalb 3rd May 2021 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belz... (Post 13470152)
I think you'd be surprised how inconvenient it is to most of us, to the point that it's ignored or downright denied.

I think we are seeing anothr example of the Mr Spock syndrome, where someone assumes humans are like Vulcans, totally logically and rational all the time. Human beings are not Vulcans.
(Yes, I know that Vulcans in Star Trek are not as totally rational as they like to believe, but sitll a good analogy ).

dudalb 3rd May 2021 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eerok (Post 13470162)
I think it's a flaw most strongly evident in those who push self-righteous religious faith. Their self-image pretty much relies on this level of certainty (and delusion of superiority).

So I'd say it's a sliding scale.

I sort of disagree; militant political ideologues can be as bad as the worst religous beleivers.

Regnad Kcin 3rd May 2021 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13470172)
They are. Their "best interest" (such as it is) right now is hurting other people.

They aren't trying to make things better for themselves. They are trying to make it worse for everybody.

"Spite" is now a very, very major mover and shaker in politics.

Along with laser-equipped bazookas made from balsa wood that can therefore evade airport scanners figuratively shoots holes in their well-regulated militia pronouncement, that's another aspect of modern life the founders didn't anticipate.

jimbob 3rd May 2021 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eerok (Post 13470076)
One thing I've noticed about evangelicals is that they'll absolutely and fervently believe in whatever is convenient.

Good point - I remember the evangelicals from university. They couldn't have casual sex, but they got engaged very quickly and called their engagements off equally quickly. And whilst they weren't technically married, they were almost in their eyes, so that was perfectly OK :boggled:

No special pleading or double standards there.

Stacyhs 3rd May 2021 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbob (Post 13470385)
Good point - I remember the evangelicals from university. They couldn't have casual sex, but they got engaged very quickly and called their engagements off equally quickly. And whilst they weren't technically married, they were almost in their eyes, so that was perfectly OK :boggled:

No special pleading or double standards there.

I knew Mormons who had pre-marital anal sex but felt morally in the clear because it wasn't vaginal. As they were still technically virgins, it wasn't "real sex".

jimbob 3rd May 2021 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy (Post 13470139)
Doesn't subservient simply mean a married woman can't refuse her husband sex as this guy (ETA: Sorry, similar thread. I'm referring to Mark Samsel) was implying?

It was the same crowd as here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbob (Post 13470385)
Good point - I remember the evangelicals from university. They couldn't have casual sex, but they got engaged very quickly and called their engagements off equally quickly. And whilst they weren't technically married, they were almost in their eyes, so that was perfectly OK :boggled:

No special pleading or double standards there.

I remember my mind boggling when I came across women undergraduates in the 1990s saying that the concept of women vicars was blasphemous.

Norman Alexander 3rd May 2021 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13470397)
I knew Mormons who had pre-marital anal sex but felt morally in the clear because it wasn't vaginal. As they were still technically virgins, it wasn't "real sex".

But the president who got only a blow-job was worthy of a full-press legal attack by the Right.

eerok 3rd May 2021 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13470359)
I sort of disagree; militant political ideologues can be as bad as the worst religous beleivers.

True, it's all faith-based and more or less arbitrary.

Dr. Keith 3rd May 2021 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13470397)
I knew Mormons who had pre-marital anal sex but felt morally in the clear because it wasn't vaginal. As they were still technically virgins, it wasn't "real sex".

There's a song for that:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

Stacyhs 3rd May 2021 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Keith (Post 13470445)
There's a song for that:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

I'm sure that was their theme song!

quadraginta 3rd May 2021 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbob (Post 13469978)
Isn't one problem for her that many evangelicals tend to believe that women should be subservient to men?


She isn't doing anything the men who vote for her would object to.

pgwenthold 4th May 2021 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13470397)
I knew Mormons who had pre-marital anal sex but felt morally in the clear because it wasn't vaginal. As they were still technically virgins, it wasn't "real sex".

The Loop Hole!!!!!

(look up the loop hole garfunkel and oates on youtube for more details)

ponderingturtle 4th May 2021 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgwenthold (Post 13471186)
The Loop Hole!!!!!

(look up the loop hole garfunkel and oates on youtube for more details)

Also Saddlebacking.

smartcooky 4th May 2021 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgwenthold (Post 13471186)
The Loop Hole!!!!!

(look up the loop hole garfunkel and oates on youtube for more details)

...or go back to Dr Keith's post #1292, three before yours

dudalb 4th May 2021 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eerok (Post 13470441)
True, it's all faith-based and more or less arbitrary.

Historian Michael Burleigh (who wrote the best single volume history of the Third Reich)
has written a lot about what he calls "Secular Religions" ..mass political movements that have all the charecteristics of religions except they don't center around a Supreme Being.He points out that the mass poltical movements of the 20th century that caused so much suffering..Nazism, Fascism, Communism..all qualify. Heavily dogamtic,blind faith in a infallible source of knowledge (the Leader or the Party, or both); claims to be fighting a dark evil force,persecution of non beleivers, etc.

JoeMorgue 4th May 2021 01:37 PM

This is why I hate the fact that Hitler and Stalin were "atheist" is always this huge "gotcha" that religious folk drop.

First all it's a lie for at least one, maybe both them.

But even if it where true, they were anti-religious because they saw religious, organized religion especially, as a threat to their power. They weren't rational or measured people.

pgwenthold 4th May 2021 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smartcooky (Post 13471301)
...or go back to Dr Keith's post #1292, three before yours

Didn't work for me

"Video removed...." error

pgwenthold 4th May 2021 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13471339)
This is why I hate the fact that Hitler and Stalin were "atheist" is always this huge "gotcha" that religious folk drop.

First all it's a lie for at least one, maybe both them.

But even if it where true, they were anti-religious because they saw religious, organized religion especially, as a threat to their power. They weren't rational or measured people.

Hitler didn't see religious people as a threat to his power. He counted on them.

Irrespective of his personal beliefs, he completed presented himself as a good Christian, and got the Christians to support him.

Hitler never personally murdered any Jews or threw anyone in the gas chamber. He just had others do it for him. Good, Christian family men. Who sent Jews to the gas chamber.

Stacyhs 4th May 2021 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13471339)
This is why I hate the fact that Hitler and Stalin were "atheist" is always this huge "gotcha" that religious folk drop.

First all it's a lie for at least one, maybe both them.

But even if it where true, they were anti-religious because they saw religious, organized religion especially, as a threat to their power. They weren't rational or measured people.

Hitler was also a huge dog lover. He adored his GS Blondi. Does that mean we should now hate dogs?

slyjoe 4th May 2021 05:56 PM

Back to MTG.

Democratic congressman tells Marjorie Taylor Greene to 'shut your seditious, QAnon loving mouth' after she called his party 'the enemy within'

Quote:

Reps. Ruben Gallego and Marjorie Taylor Greene got into a heated Twitter exchange this week.

Gallego said Greene was an "insurrectionist" after she called Democrats "the enemy within."

In response, Greene called Gallego a "coward" and questioned his masculinity.
Some other good quotes in the article.

https://news.yahoo.com/democratic-co...175610812.html

Belz... 4th May 2021 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13471333)
has written a lot about what he calls "Secular Religions" ..mass political movements that have all the charecteristics of religions except they don't center around a Supreme Being.

Don't they, though? Not only is dear leader effectively a god amongst men, or at least a demigod, but there are often religious overtones in even those cults.

Stacyhs 4th May 2021 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slyjoe (Post 13471500)
Back to MTG.

Democratic congressman tells Marjorie Taylor Greene to 'shut your seditious, QAnon loving mouth' after she called his party 'the enemy within'



Some other good quotes in the article.

https://news.yahoo.com/democratic-co...175610812.html

I have got laugh at MTG's retort:

"While you were hiding with your little pen, brave Republican MEN were helping police hold the door, so that ALL of us could get out safely. Coward,"

How conveniently she forgets that those trying to break down the doors in the first place weren't Democrats but people who were supporters of her beloved Trump!

This is how stupid and ignorant MTG is: this is the report of Haley Talbot, a reporter who was in the Capitol on Jan. 6th and reported on Rep. Gallego's actions that day. Unlike MTG's ignorant tweet, Gallego chose to take a group of women reporters to his office because they were refused entrance to the secure location the Congressmembers were evacuated to:

Quote:

When we finally made it to our secure location, members started filing through the large wooden doors of the largest hearing room I know of. When I tried to walk in I was told “members only” by an officer guarding the entrance.

I was stunned. The five other reporters with me couldn’t believe it either. “Where are we supposed to go?!” we begged.

Rep. Abigail Spanberger, D-Va., fought for us. When those doors were slammed in our faces she told the guards we needed refuge, we needed somewhere to hide. She told them that we were in the chamber too and we had been attacked.

At the same time, I was also asking Spanberger if she would please go on MSNBC to talk about what just happened. She later did and recounted the events calmly and accurately.

Spanberger refused to go in the hearing room until she knew we were safe. It meant so much to me that she fought for us. As the confrontation with the guard ensued, Rep. Ruben Gallego, D-Ariz., offered to take us down the hall to his office.

I felt better once we were inside the congressman’s office. He did not need to help us like that, especially amid a raging pandemic that has killed hundreds of thousands.

Gallego entertained us with war stories, raided the cafeteria and vending machines for us and made us feel calm amidst the chaos that was still ensuing just outside the door.
That ***** MTG really does need to shut her seditious, stupid, ignorant mouth. But, like Trump, she suffers from the same foot-in-mouth disease.

Craig4 4th May 2021 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slyjoe (Post 13471500)
Back to MTG.

Democratic congressman tells Marjorie Taylor Greene to 'shut your seditious, QAnon loving mouth' after she called his party 'the enemy within'



Some other good quotes in the article.

https://news.yahoo.com/democratic-co...175610812.html

It's about time Dems called out the sedition of the domestic enemy in our Congress.

smartcooky 4th May 2021 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgwenthold (Post 13471482)
Didn't work for me

"Video removed...." error

Still works for me. It hasn't been removed but it has been disabled from playing outside of You Tube. Click the "Watch on YouTube" link and it works

Skeptic Ginger 4th May 2021 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig4 (Post 13471519)
It's about time Dems called out the sedition of the domestic enemy in our Congress.

Especially with McCarthy trying to kiss and make up.

Norman Alexander 4th May 2021 11:37 PM

Gallego as a Marine has been at the sharp end of some real fighting, with real weapons in real danger. Whereas Greene has only ever posed with her semi-auto on Twitter while pretending she is a "patriot".

ponderingturtle 5th May 2021 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgwenthold (Post 13471488)
Hitler didn't see religious people as a threat to his power. He counted on them.

Irrespective of his personal beliefs, he completed presented himself as a good Christian, and got the Christians to support him.

Hitler never personally murdered any Jews or threw anyone in the gas chamber. He just had others do it for him. Good, Christian family men. Who sent Jews to the gas chamber.

Who of course the Vatican helped flee from allied trials. So nothing against the catholic church in the holocaust at least.

smartcooky 5th May 2021 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander (Post 13471604)
Gallego as a Marine has been at the sharp end of some real fighting, with real weapons in real danger. Whereas Greene has only ever posed with her semi-auto on Twitter while pretending she is a "patriot".

Ruben Gallego: Combat Action Ribbon - Lima Company, 3rd Battalion, 25th Marine Regiment in Iraq 2005-2006. His unit lost 46 Marines (including his best friend) and two USN corpsmen during his ToD.

Marjorie Taylor Greene: QAnon conspiracy theorist who believes Space Lasers secretly launched by the Jews caused the California wildfires, and that the world is controlled by a shadowy cabal of baby-eating abusers operating out of the basement of a DC pizza parlour. The nearest she's has ever come to combat is posing with a gun in a political ad in which she makes implied threats against other politicians, and she wants to be allowed to take her gun into the Congressional chamber where those very same politicians work.

Which one of these is "the enemy within" again?

The Don 5th May 2021 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smartcooky (Post 13471702)
Ruben Gallego: Combat Action Ribbon - Lima Company, 3rd Battalion, 25th Marine Regiment in Iraq 2005-2006. His unit lost 46 Marines (including his best friend) and two USN corpsmen during his ToD.

Marjorie Taylor Greene: QAnon conspiracy theorist who believes Space Lasers secretly launched by the Jews caused the California wildfires, and that the world is controlled by a shadowy cabal of baby-eating abusers operating out of the basement of a DC pizza parlour. The nearest she's has ever come to combat is posing with a gun in a political ad in which she makes implied threats against other politicians, and she wants to be allowed to take her gun into the Congressional chamber where those very same politicians work.

Which one of these is "the enemy within" again?

According to a sizeable minority of the US electorate, the libtard. :mad:

quadraginta 5th May 2021 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smartcooky (Post 13471528)
Quote:

Originally Posted by pgwenthold (Post 13471482)
Didn't work for me

"Video removed...." error

Still works for me. It hasn't been removed but it has been disabled from playing outside of You Tube. Click the "Watch on YouTube" link and it works


Some people don't read past the headlines.

Dr. Keith 5th May 2021 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgwenthold (Post 13471482)
Didn't work for me

"Video removed...." error

That's a pretty good answer considering the prohibition on talking about one's ignore list. Well done threading that needle!

dudalb 5th May 2021 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgwenthold (Post 13471488)
Hitler didn't see religious people as a threat to his power. He counted on them.

Irrespective of his personal beliefs, he completed presented himself as a good Christian, and got the Christians to support him.

Hitler never personally murdered any Jews or threw anyone in the gas chamber. He just had others do it for him. Good, Christian family men. Who sent Jews to the gas chamber.


While he needed them. Hitler made clear there would be a "reckoning" with the Churhes after the war.
Have to point out many Christians opposed Hitler. Frankly, this sounds like a cheap shot.

Belz... 5th May 2021 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13471921)
While he needed them. Hitler made clear there would be a "reckoning" with the Churhes after the war.
Have to point out many Christians opposed Hitler. Frankly, this sounds like a cheap shot.

Religious people want Hitler to be an atheist. Atheists want him to be super-religious. Truth is, neither of those are true.

Silly Green Monkey 5th May 2021 10:08 AM

Got Mitt Uns

dudalb 5th May 2021 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belz... (Post 13471931)
Religious people want Hitler to be an atheist. Atheists want him to be super-religious. Truth is, neither of those are true.

Correct.
Hitler had to tolerate the churches for political reasons, but in private he hated them. He agreed with Bormann and Himmler that Christinaity was a Jewish plot to weaken the Heroic Nordic Warrior with it's stupid idead of love and mercy. He constanly spoke of a reckoning once the war was won.
As it was, Himmler put pressure on anybody in the SS to drop all relatiohsips with the churches, and a couple of Gaulietiers tried to make their districrs the first in Germany to be free of Christian Churches.
He appeared to have no real religous convictions o fhis own.he in private ridiculed Himmler's attempts to revive Pre Christian German religion as silly.

dudalb 5th May 2021 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey (Post 13471936)
Got Mitt Uns

"WE GOT MITTENS TOO!"

Supposedly the reply of a US Doughboy to Germans shouting that in World War One.

pgwenthold 5th May 2021 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13471921)
While he needed them. Hitler made clear there would be a "reckoning" with the Churhes after the war.
Have to point out many Christians opposed Hitler. Frankly, this sounds like a cheap shot.

Not at all.

Watch a Hitler rally. You really think many of those praising love on him were not Christian?

Of course they were. They were all good Catholics and Lutherans.

Hitler would have gotten no where without the support of Christian Germans.


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