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-   -   Greta Thunberg - brave campaigner or deeply disturbed? (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=337968)

Matthew Best 2nd August 2019 02:35 AM

Greta Thunberg - brave campaigner or deeply disturbed?
 
Someone called Andrew Bolt is in the news today for apparently attacking Greta Thunberg, the teenage climate change campaigner (who, I was surprised to note) has not been mentioned on this forum before - at least searching for "Thunberg" gives no results).

Unfortunately Bolt's column is behind a paywall, so I can't see exactly what he said, beyond his opening few paragraphs, which include:

"No teenager is more freakishly influential than Greta Thunberg, the deeply disturbed messiah of the global warming movement.

...

I have never seen a girl so young and with so many mental disorders treated by so many adults as a guru."

So, Thunberg - a force for much-needed change, or a mentally ill "pig-tailed soothsayer". Or something else?

uke2se 2nd August 2019 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Best (Post 12774388)
Someone called Andrew Bolt is in the news today for apparently attacking Greta Thunberg, the teenage climate change campaigner (who, I was surprised to note) has not been mentioned on this forum before - at least searching for "Thunberg" gives no results).

Unfortunately Bolt's column is behind a paywall, so I can't see exactly what he said, beyond his opening few paragraphs, which include:

"No teenager is more freakishly influential than Greta Thunberg, the deeply disturbed messiah of the global warming movement.

...

I have never seen a girl so young and with so many mental disorders treated by so many adults as a guru."

So, Thunberg - a force for much-needed change, or a mentally ill "pig-tailed soothsayer". Or something else?

First of all, Andrew Bolt is a denier known for being wrong about pretty much everything. He's an arch-conservative racist as well.

Greta Thunberg is inspiring because she's young and has aspergers, and despite these drawbacks manage to upset deniers by virtue of energizing people into action on climate change. I get why the deniers are afraid of her. I hope she has someone thinking about her personal safety, because she's dangerous enough for them to go after her, or at least use the right wing radicalization channels to get one of the loonies to do it.

catsmate 2nd August 2019 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Best (Post 12774388)
Someone called Andrew Bolt is in the news today

At this point, if your're familiar with Bolt. you can stop reading. He's a right-wing wackjob who's made numerous assertions that are at variance with factual reality (i.e. lies). These include:
1. He accuses a magistrate (a low level judge) of hugging and congratulating two freed drug traffickers. She was awarded damaged for defamation.
2. Ionising radiation has #health benefits'. He parroted Coulter's drivel.#
3. There was no 'Stolen Generation' in Australia. He's been comprehensively refuted on this lie.
4. Climate change isn't real. He's described it as a "pagan cult", "neo-pagan gospel", "giddiest ideology of all" and "great sham".

He's also been convicted of racism ('[racial vilification') and is a regular defended of convicted cild molesting cardinal Pell. Ignore his rantings.

Even John Birmingham considers his an idiot and an "oxygen thief". Other colleagues in the Australian journalistic coimmity have described him as "champion of the overdog" and "self-parodying buffoon".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Best (Post 12774388)
So, Thunberg - a force for much-needed change, or a mentally ill "pig-tailed soothsayer". Or something else?

Something else.

The Great Zaganza 2nd August 2019 02:58 AM

Sounds like someone is jealous...

Robin 2nd August 2019 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Best (Post 12774388)
Someone called Andrew Bolt ...

Normally it is pretty safe to stop there.
Quote:

So, Thunberg - a force for much-needed change, or a mentally ill "pig-tailed soothsayer". Or something else?
This is new. What mental illness is she supposed to have?

Matthew Best 2nd August 2019 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin (Post 12774444)
Normally it is pretty safe to stop there.

In that case, I'm glad to say I've never heard of him before.

Quote:

This is new. What mental illness is she supposed to have?
I doubt her critics are specific on the point, they just say she's "crazy".

3point14 2nd August 2019 04:55 AM

Textbook Ad Hominem attack. What a weak man.

catsmate 2nd August 2019 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin (Post 12774444)
This is new. What mental illness is she supposed to have?

ASD. She's autistic.
She also terrifies the rightist AGW deniers. Hence their continual attacks.

Robin 2nd August 2019 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catsmate (Post 12774455)
ASD. She's autistic.

I knew she was autistic, I am autistic too. It is not really what I would call a mental illness.

Puppycow 2nd August 2019 05:22 AM

Quote:

The United States, the last bastion of the heathen
Maybe we can stop right there?

So this Andrew Bolt fellow is some kind of religious nut who hates America.

Dave Rogers 2nd August 2019 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin (Post 12774463)
I knew she was autistic, I am autistic too. It is not really what I would call a mental illness.

It's not what anyone competent would call a mental illness, in fact. Asperger's Syndrome is a developmental disorder - the normal processes of the brain are somewhat different in a person with AS than in one without - rather than a mental illness, in which the normal processes of the brain for that individual are impaired or temporarily disordered. And it's unwarranted for Bolt to refer to "so many mental disorders" when in fact Thunberg is known to have only one, and one that many people have found not to prevent them having an enjoyable and productive life.

There's also a rather subtle hedas-I-win, tails-you-lose in play in the column. Remember how Emma Thompson was recently criticised for flying to New York after saying people should fly less? Now Thunberg is being criticised for sailing to the US because (a) it's too uncompromising and (b) it looks like a publicity stunt. So apparently it's wrong either to compromise or not to compromise.

Andrew Bolt's not a member, is he? Just thought I'd check in case I want to say what I really think of him.

Dave

Childlike Empress 2nd August 2019 06:08 AM

My favorite Greta picture:

https://i.imgur.com/qgK26Iy.jpg

She's 16 years old, btw.

uke2se 2nd August 2019 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers (Post 12774495)
It's not what anyone competent would call a mental illness, in fact. Asperger's Syndrome is a developmental disorder - the normal processes of the brain are somewhat different in a person with AS than in one without - rather than a mental illness, in which the normal processes of the brain for that individual are impaired or temporarily disordered. And it's unwarranted for Bolt to refer to "so many mental disorders" when in fact Thunberg is known to have only one, and one that many people have found not to prevent them having an enjoyable and productive life.

There's also a rather subtle hedas-I-win, tails-you-lose in play in the column. Remember how Emma Thompson was recently criticised for flying to New York after saying people should fly less? Now Thunberg is being criticised for sailing to the US because (a) it's too uncompromising and (b) it looks like a publicity stunt. So apparently it's wrong either to compromise or not to compromise.

Andrew Bolt's not a member, is he? Just thought I'd check in case I want to say what I really think of him.

Dave

He's a public figure, so shouldn't matter.

Bolt's a dolt.

catsmate 2nd August 2019 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin (Post 12774463)
I knew she was autistic, I am autistic too. It is not really what I would call a mental illness.

Neuroatypical is the preferred tern now.
However Dolt neither understands this nor cares, is an AGW denying cretin, wants to stir up believers and is employed by Murdoch.

catsmate 2nd August 2019 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puppycow (Post 12774473)
Maybe we can stop right there?

So this Andrew Bolt fellow is some kind of religious nut who hates America.

Dolt claims not to be an xian; however he's a vehement defender of convicted child molester Pell.

Puppycow 2nd August 2019 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catsmate (Post 12774527)
Dolt claims not to be an xian; however he's a vehement defender of convicted child molester Pell.

I realized that I misinterpreted that bit. He meant "heathen" in the ironic sense, not the literal one. Like she is a kind of missionary going to convert the "heathens" to the religion of global warming. But that means that he sees it as on par with a religion, and not a valid scientific theory.

Giz 2nd August 2019 08:54 AM

I donít think thereís any justification for sneering at Greta thunberg.

Now, sneering at a society that takes complex policy advice from children... yeah,, maybe so.

Matthew Best 2nd August 2019 09:00 AM

How about sneering at a society that needs to take complex policy advice from children?

Dave Rogers 2nd August 2019 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giz (Post 12774682)
Now, sneering at a society that takes needs complex policy advice from children... yeah,, maybe so.

FTFY.

Dave

ETA: Ninja'd.

Giz 2nd August 2019 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Best (Post 12774689)
How about sneering at a society that needs to take complex policy advice from children?

Of course.

applecorped 2nd August 2019 09:27 AM

Hogg has faded, need a new pawn

Chris_Halkides 2nd August 2019 09:37 AM

blind squirrels and all
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by catsmate (Post 12774527)
Dolt claims not to be an xian; however he's a vehement defender of convicted child molester Pell.

The safety of the conviction of Cardinal Pell is a subject about which reasonable minds may disagree, for about seven pages in the Trials and Errors section. Therefore, I do not accept the proposition that Bolt is a nut on the basis of his position on this one issue.

Venom 2nd August 2019 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress (Post 12774506)
My favorite Greta picture:

https://i.imgur.com/qgK26Iy.jpg

She's 16 years old, btw.

She looks around 12, which I can relate to, and part of the reason she's even more not taken seriously.

jimbob 2nd August 2019 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catsmate (Post 12774527)
Dolt claims not to be an xian; however he's a vehement defender of convicted child molester Pell.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides (Post 12774739)
The safety of the conviction of Cardinal Pell is a subject about which reasonable minds may disagree, for about seven pages in the Trials and Errors section. Therefore, I do not accept the proposition that Bolt is a nut on the basis of his position on this one issue.

Regardless of his individual conviction, he certainly was instrumental in obstructing justice for victims of other priests which is enough to damn him in my eyes.

Given the history of allegations against him, stretching back several decades, and the cases that were dropped for good reasons, it's pretty certain he was guilty anyway.

Skeptic Ginger 2nd August 2019 01:47 PM

Greta replies:
Quote:

I am indeed ”deeply disturbed” about the fact that these hate and conspiracy campaigns are allowed to go on and on and on just because we children communicate and act on the science. Where are the adults? pic.twitter.com/xDSlN0VgtZ

Greta Thunberg (@GretaThunberg) August 1, 2019
I find it fantastic that instead of saying she's deeply disturbed about global warming she went this intelligent route.

Childlike Empress 2nd August 2019 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venom (Post 12774970)
She looks around 12, which I can relate to, and part of the reason she's even more not taken seriously.


Indeed she looks like 12, but if she weren't taken seriously in a way, none of us would have ever heard about her. She had an audience with the pope and spoke at several parliaments (EU, France, UK?). I think the question in the thread title is a false dichotomy. She can be both a brave campaigner and deeply disturbed at the same time. What is obvious is that she is useful to powerful people. And the person who created that useful product is her father (her mother has written an interesting book).

What we see in her follower's faces in the picture is what she explicitly demands: panic. And we old navigators of the galaxy know that rule one for success is not to panic.

I feel very ambivalent about this phenomenon.

theprestige 2nd August 2019 03:53 PM

Dude I've never heard of calls out other dude I've never heard of. Somehow this is important.

Whatever. I have a policy of not taking children seriously on any issue.

Unless this Thunberg person is some kind of world renowned precocious polymath, who cares what she thinks or says? For sure if it has any real value, we can find a mature and experienced adult with the expertise to make the same argument from actual authority.

Arcade22 2nd August 2019 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venom (Post 12774970)
She looks around 12, which I can relate to, and part of the reason she's even more not taken seriously.

She does have a baby face. No doubt some people find it incredibly infuriating to be lectured by a "little kid", a little girl even, even-though she's actually 16 years old.

Of course many people would need to assert their vulnerable egos from such a bruising by, as is customary, attacking her appearance or assailing her on other superficial grounds. That's why much of the criticism very quickly takes such a vicious and very personal tone. Often you'd get the impression that they are more interested in bashing her than what she actually says.

Pterodactyl 2nd August 2019 03:57 PM

Does she have some insight into climate change that contemporary climate scientists do not?

Being 12 and autistic doesn't sound that remarkable.

Arcade22 2nd August 2019 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12775152)
Unless this Thunberg person is some kind of world renowned precocious polymath, who cares what she thinks or says? For sure if it has any real value, we can find a mature and experienced adult with the expertise to make the same argument from actual authority.

When 99% of scientists working on climate science aren't persuasive enough to convince climate change deniers that they are wrong I think it's safe to say that it doesn't matter who says what.

theprestige 2nd August 2019 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pterodactyl (Post 12775159)
Does she have some insight into climate change that contemporary climate scientists do not?

Being 12 and autistic doesn't sound that remarkable.

Didn't you see The Predator? Autism is the next stage of human evolution. It's literally a superpower. She's basically a real life X-men.

Merely human scientists, for all their decades of mature experience and professional expertise, don't hold a candle to her magical autism.

Childlike Empress 2nd August 2019 04:02 PM

I wouldn't worry too much, Arcade22. There's already panic in your face over the Russian hoax, so you are fitting right in without believing in St, Greta,

theprestige 2nd August 2019 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcade22 (Post 12775160)
When 99% of scientists working on climate science aren't persuasive enough to convince climate change deniers that they are wrong I think it's safe to say that it doesn't matter who says what.

I wholeheartedly agree. So what's the point of Thunberg-as-poster-child?

Childlike Empress 2nd August 2019 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pterodactyl (Post 12775159)
Does she have some insight into climate change that contemporary climate scientists do not?

Being 12 and autistic doesn't sound that remarkable.


She's 16.

Pterodactyl 2nd August 2019 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12775165)
Didn't you see The Predator? Autism is the next stage of human evolution. It's literally a superpower. She's basically a real life X-men.

Merely human scientists, for all their decades of mature experience and professional expertise, don't hold a candle to her magical autism.

I... did not see the version of predator you're talking about.

Saw one with Schwarzenegger and Jesse the Body. Then vaguely remember another with Danny Glover. Don't remember any autistics unless you count that anti-social Native American dude who slashes his chest open with a knife for no other reason than to look like a badass.

If it bleeds, it can die.

Pterodactyl 2nd August 2019 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress (Post 12775168)
She's 16.

Oh never mind.
I think she's a great spokesperson then.

Skeptic Ginger 2nd August 2019 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12775152)
Dude I've never heard of calls out other dude I've never heard of. Somehow this is important.

Whatever. I have a policy of not taking children seriously on any issue.

Unless this Thunberg person is some kind of world renowned precocious polymath, who cares what she thinks or says? For sure if it has any real value, we can find a mature and experienced adult with the expertise to make the same argument from actual authority.

Been sleeping under a rock or something? :confused: Or is this some kind of tp sarcasm we're all supposed to magically understand?

You appear to have no clue what Greta has accomplished. Should I fill you in?

Inspired by 16-year-old Swedish activist Greta Thunberg's weekly protests, the global youth climate movement has swept the globe, with students organizing strikes on every continent.

theprestige 2nd August 2019 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pterodactyl (Post 12775171)
I... did not see the version of predator you're talking about.



Saw one with Schwarzenegger and Jesse the Body. Then vaguely remember another with Danny Glover. Don't remember any autistics unless you count that anti-social Native American dude who slashes his chest open with a knife for no other reason than to look like a badass.



If it bleeds, it can die.

You're referring to Predator and Predator 2.

There's a more recent movie: The Predator.

Skeptic Ginger 2nd August 2019 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcade22 (Post 12775155)
She does have a baby face. No doubt some people find it incredibly infuriating to be lectured by a "little kid", a little girl even, even-though she's actually 16 years old.

Of course many people would need to assert their vulnerable egos from such a bruising by, as is customary, attacking her appearance or assailing her on other superficial grounds. That's why much of the criticism very quickly takes such a vicious and very personal tone. Often you'd get the impression that they are more interested in bashing her than what she actually says.

Despite her looks, she is an excellent public speaker.

Pterodactyl 2nd August 2019 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12775177)
You're referring to Predator and Predator 2.

There's a more recent movie: The Predator.


https://youtu.be/N9YsrGHmwIg


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