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-   -   Bill Barr and his October Surprise (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=346780)

Horatius 16th October 2020 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xjx388 (Post 13259630)
The core problem is that Hunter Biden was put on the board of a Ukranian gas company despite having no experience in the Ukraine or the gas industry. Despite having just been discharged from the Navy Reserve for cocaine use. This happened at a time when his father was Vice President and specifically handling Ukraine relations.

That problematic appointment creates a ripe environment for speculation. Why was Hunter appointed if not to curry favor with the VP, his father? It really doesn't make sense any other way. A relatively reasonable person can make inferences that lead them to concluding that there was at least some motive for corruption on Burisma's part.


Okay, so let's say this is all true, and Burisma did act with the intention of gaining influence over VP Biden. Fine.

That's an act of corruption by Burisma, not Biden.

Just because they hired his kid, is no reason he has to suddenly fall all over himself to start providing them with corrupt favors. "Do this or we'll fire your kid!" "Go ahead, you've already paid him $250,000 dollars, he can live on that for quite some time!"

Unless you can point to an act committed by VP Biden that is clearly corrupt, there's still nothing there. And after years of investigations backed by the president of the United States, the only evidence anyone has provided is this weaksauce "Oh, why did they hire him?" speculation. Their evidence for corruption is so weak that just this week they've started pushing obviously forged e-mails as evidence.

Babbylonian 16th October 2020 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtywick (Post 13259876)
itís a private company anyway right? Whether or not theyíre making bad hiring decisions is entirely up to them. Real question is what did Joe Biden do. And if the best you got is an email that Rudy Giuliani found in a water logged computer he got from a MAGA nut, well, LOL at you for believing that

An e-mail that, even if it's real (it isn't), doesn't even provide evidence of wrongdoing.

xjx388 16th October 2020 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horatius (Post 13259902)
Okay, so let's say this is all true, and Burisma did act with the intention of gaining influence over VP Biden. Fine.

That's an act of corruption by Burisma, not Biden.

Just because they hired his kid, is no reason he has to suddenly fall all over himself to start providing them with corrupt favors. "Do this or we'll fire your kid!" "Go ahead, you've already paid him $250,000 dollars, he can live on that for quite some time!"

Unless you can point to an act committed by VP Biden that is clearly corrupt, there's still nothing there. And after years of investigations backed by the president of the United States, the only evidence anyone has provided is this weaksauce "Oh, why did they hire him?" speculation. Their evidence for corruption is so weak that just this week they've started pushing obviously forged e-mails as evidence.

As I very clearly said, I don't see any evidence that there was corruption on the Bidens' part. My point is that 1)It can, at the very least, create an appearance of impropriety which could have been avoided (and which was a concern for the Obama Admin at the time) and 2)Someone who is otherwise reasonable but not very well informed and/or partisan (which is, realistically at least half of America) can see the surface-level story, without digging for specifics like we here always do, and reach their own conclusions. "Biden pushed for the removal of the prosecutor looking into Burisma? Sounds fishy." Ignorant, yes.

I agree completely: There is no evidence of actual corruption on the Bidens' part. That doesn't matter much to a lot of Americans because 1)They don't care enough to dig deep or 2)They just want their side to win by any means necessary.

shuttlt 16th October 2020 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtywick (Post 13259876)
itís a private company anyway right? Whether or not theyíre making bad hiring decisions is entirely up to them. Real question is what did Joe Biden do. And if the best you got is an email that Rudy Giuliani found in a water logged computer he got from a MAGA nut, well, LOL at you for believing that

If they have been fabricated, that's good. The Biden campaign can safely state that unequivocally. The denials I've seen up until now have been non-denial denials, but maybe I've missed them actually claiming the emails are fake?

shuttlt 16th October 2020 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xjx388 (Post 13259940)
As I very clearly said, I don't see any evidence that there was corruption on the Bidens' part. My point is that 1)It can, at the very least, create an appearance of impropriety which could have been avoided (and which was a concern for the Obama Admin at the time) and 2)Someone who is otherwise reasonable but not very well informed and/or partisan (which is, realistically at least half of America) can see the surface-level story, without digging for specifics like we here always do, and reach their own conclusions. "Biden pushed for the removal of the prosecutor looking into Burisma? Sounds fishy." Ignorant, yes.

I agree completely: There is no evidence of actual corruption on the Bidens' part. That doesn't matter much to a lot of Americans because 1)They don't care enough to dig deep or 2)They just want their side to win by any means necessary.

Are you including the quote from the second release of quotes from these emails:

Quote:

New leaked emails claim to show that Joe Biden visited the Ukraine just over a month after a Ukrainian business executive asked his son Hunter to arrange for 'highly-recognized and influential US policy makers' to travel to the country.

Revealed on Tucker Carlson Tonight, the November 2015 email from Vadym Pozharskyi says that the visits were needed to 'close down any pursuits against the head of the firm' Burisma where Hunter Biden sat on the board.

During Biden's visit the next month, he successfully pressured Ukrainian officials to fire the prosecutor who was looking into Pozharskyi's business.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...head-firm.html

Weirdly Googling that quote returns almost no hits. It's as if it's not being reported.

It looks like the emails are starting to edge closer to Joe Biden. Maybe this is as far as it goes, in which case he'll likely be OK.

dirtywick 16th October 2020 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuttlt (Post 13259950)
If they have been fabricated, that's good. The Biden campaign can safely state that unequivocally. The denials I've seen up until now have been non-denial denials, but maybe I've missed them actually claiming the emails are fake?

No you havenít missed it. The Biden campaign hasnít given this nonsense the time of day, rightfully so. Itís very apparent that itís very stupid

shuttlt 16th October 2020 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13259795)
:dl:

You're still going there?

:dl: :dl:

Sure. Hillary's emails were supposedly hacked and released by the Russians and as far as I'm aware we never found out that they had been altered. Maybe the laptop was stolen and dropped off at the store by a Russian in a Biden mask? I don't know or care. The question is whether the emails are genuine. If they aren't it seems like it would be really easy for the Biden campaign to prove. Maybe they are waiting until the right moment to do that and are letting him go all in on this? It's possible. What ever happens the next few weeks are going to be entertaining.

wareyin 16th October 2020 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuttlt (Post 13259957)
Are you including the quote from the second release of quotes from these emails:


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...head-firm.html

Weirdly Googling that quote returns almost no hits. It's as if it's not being reported.

It looks like the emails are starting to edge closer to Joe Biden. Maybe this is as far as it goes, in which case he'll likely be OK.

What I find weird is that despite several posters explaining to you that Shokin was not investigating Burisma, as well as the sources you yourself said you got your info from also telling you that, here you are repeating the claim.

wareyin 16th October 2020 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuttlt (Post 13259971)
Sure. Hillary's emails were supposedly hacked and released by the Russians and as far as I'm aware we never found out that they had been altered. Maybe the laptop was stolen and dropped off at the store by a Russian in a Biden mask? I don't know or care. The question is whether the emails are genuine. If they aren't it seems like it would be really easy for the Biden campaign to prove. Maybe they are waiting until the right moment to do that and are letting him go all in on this? It's possible. What ever happens the next few weeks are going to be entertaining.

How do you prove a screenshotted email from someone else's account is false? Or did the "second drop of emails" have more than a picture of a single email?

eta: scrolling through that report of a report of a report that you linked to, not one email was from Hunter Biden, nor were any actual emails released. Yet you still fall for this?

Tero 16th October 2020 02:00 PM

Hunter Biden's computer is at the FBI. No it's at Rudy's attorney's office. And it's just the hard drive. Hunter left a 12 minute video of himself having sex while smoking crack on the laptop. And it's been found at a shop in Delaware. Hunter lives in California. Elena Baturina sent Hunter Biden 3.5 million! Or at least she sent the money to someone or some corporation that sounds like Hunter Biden.

Did they need to make up so much crap at NY Post and Foxnews? Simply posting the forged email might have done something.

Stacyhs 16th October 2020 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuttlt (Post 13259742)
Presumably any change he would make to their image would be as a result of a perceived connection to Joe Biden? That feels like almost the definition of conflict of interest. In any case, if these emails pan out, we have Hunter introducing people from Burisma to Joe... so the suggestion is that they were getting more for their money than just reflected glory.

AIUI, there is no allegation of "people" being introduced. There is talk of one possible meeting in the future with Biden. A meeting which Biden's people say did not take place.

Stacyhs 16th October 2020 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disbelief (Post 13259370)
Yep, we can easily see how Trumplethinskins will react (Total Devotion Syndrome).

Love it!

I wonder what the Trump cultists will do when Trump goes down in defeat after the election. I suppose go into defense mode when the state criminal charges start coming in. We all know Trump will either pardon himself or have Pres. Pence pardon him when Trump resigns at the last minute if all else fails.

Babbylonian 16th October 2020 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuttlt (Post 13259950)
If they have been fabricated, that's good. The Biden campaign can safely state that unequivocally. The denials I've seen up until now have been non-denial denials, but maybe I've missed them actually claiming the emails are fake?

That they've been fabricated is obvious to anyone who can think. Officially declaring them such requires access to the liars who are releasing this garbage. That's why those with standing are simply waving the nonsense away without commenting substantively. Not only would commenting substantively lend credence to total lies but it would provide another angle of attack for the lying shills who keep wanting to promote the lies: "How can they say that the evidence has been fabricated if they haven't examined it?"

Attempting to converse in any sensible fashion with people intent on lying and fabricating evidence is a no-win scenario, especially if all the liars have to do is keep the ball in the air for a few weeks.

Fortunately, they have people like you to play make believe on the Internet and spread the lies around. Since Twitter won't ban every single scumsucker who promotes this BS (such as the President), the lies will spread no matter how obviously false they are.

xjx388 16th October 2020 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babbylonian (Post 13259993)
...obvious to anyone who can think.

Here's the problem. ;)

---
I don't know that the fact they are fabricated is obvious, but the fact that they are completely unverified and unevidenced certainly is.

That won't matter to people who consider the NYPost a reliable source. That won't matter to the average person who doesn't dig beyond the headlines. That won't matter to Trump supporters who simply aren't going to vet the info themselves.

There are elements of the free press that are actively spreading misinformation without any journalistic integrity. The problem is how to convince our nation with it's sizable share of people who buy into conspiracy theories and love throwing mud around, true or not, that those sources are worthless. This distrust of the media has been successfully sown by sycophantic spreaders of pseudo-conservative slime (like Rush Limbaugh) since they started streaming their silliness over the airwaves decades ago. It's an engrained mindset of too much of America at this point.

dudalb 16th October 2020 03:14 PM

I always thought that even if it turned out to be true, given what has come out about the Trump admiistration it would have been a wash....screaming "Your're Another!" has nevr worked all that well.

dudalb 16th October 2020 03:21 PM

And with it clear there is not going to be any breakthrough with a virus vaccine before the election, the cnances of an October Suprise is now very low. It would have to be something out of the blue.

Giordano 16th October 2020 03:40 PM

To my knowledge it is not illegal to hire someone because they are related to an influential person. They donít even need to have any other specific-related demonstrable skills. It is done in business and politics all the time. Typically the advantage is implied and diffuse. The idea that the hire will help the company achieve better access to the influential person is implied but is not usually explicitly spoken of. It need not be. The company just happens to value this person. Prove they donít! Hunter may not be the tip-top hire but to imply he has zero appropriate skills is just wrong.

As far as I know neither is it illegal to say, ďHey, would you like to meet my Dad?Ē The so called smoking gun, even if an accurate depiction of the email (and there are huge holes in the story) is meaningless. Even stupid. So what if there was an invitation to meet his dad? One would have to show a direct reciprocity, a specific deal in exchange for Hunterís hire. An important client meeting a partnerís family happens all the time in business.

I Am The Scum 16th October 2020 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuttlt (Post 13259742)
In any case, if these emails pan out, we have Hunter introducing people from Burisma to Joe... so the suggestion is that they were getting more for their money than just reflected glory.

I want to make sure I understand your position as clearly as possible. What follows is my attempt at stating what you believe is the most "severe" allegation one can infer from the story:

Hunter Biden introduced one of his fellow business executives to his father.

If I'm wrong, correct me. Does the bold section understate your case?

portlandatheist 16th October 2020 04:19 PM

OK, I'm convinced. I will not be voting for Hunter Biden.

Skeptic Ginger 16th October 2020 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuttlt (Post 13259957)
Are you including the quote from the second release of quotes from these emails:


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...head-firm.html

Weirdly Googling that quote returns almost no hits. It's as if it's not being reported.

It looks like the emails are starting to edge closer to Joe Biden. Maybe this is as far as it goes, in which case he'll likely be OK.

Are you still trying to make this ridiculously poor attempt at producing a fake story real?

:rolleyes:

kookbreaker 16th October 2020 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13260102)
Are you still trying to make this ridiculously poor attempt at producing a fake story real?

:rolleyes:

Trumper
Desperation
Status

Skeptic Ginger 16th October 2020 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuttlt (Post 13259971)
Sure. Hillary's emails were supposedly hacked and released by the Russians and as far as I'm aware we never found out that they had been altered. Maybe the laptop was stolen and dropped off at the store by a Russian in a Biden mask? I don't know or care. The question is whether the emails are genuine. If they aren't it seems like it would be really easy for the Biden campaign to prove. Maybe they are waiting until the right moment to do that and are letting him go all in on this? It's possible. What ever happens the next few weeks are going to be entertaining.

Why should Biden disprove Giuliani's laughable attempt? It's laughable!

There is no evidence the emails are anything but a genuine fraud.

jerrywayne 16th October 2020 07:57 PM

The latest:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fb...?ocid=msedgntp

dudalb 16th October 2020 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerrywayne (Post 13260245)

So the whole thing might have "Made In Moscow" stamped on it. Why am I not surprised?

TahiniBinShawarma 16th October 2020 08:34 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bXgULtz6cI

Posted Sept 30th, so this pre dates the NYPost

TahiniBinShawarma 16th October 2020 08:41 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma (Post 13260284)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bXgULtz6cI

Posted Sept 30th, so this pre dates the NYPost

Also, Bannon, Giuliani, the guy from the video, and virus conspiracy chick in the mirror. Bannon is behind Giuliani. So while you are screaming Russia, it's more than likely China. Although, I haven't seen anything to say the laptop wasn't Hunter's, or that it was a hack. If anyone has evidence of that, I'd like to see it. The Campaign/Biden haven't alleged that.


People here are stuck on Russia/Ukraine/Burisma, the incriminating stuff is the China allegations.

Also, FoxNews supposedly contacted someone in the email chain regarding Chinese business FWIW. They supposedly authenticated the email.

TahiniBinShawarma 16th October 2020 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13260264)
So the whole thing might have "Made In Moscow" stamped on it. Why am I not surprised?

Because you've been told that the sky is falling and there are Russians under your bed, and you believe it?

TahiniBinShawarma 16th October 2020 08:56 PM

Also, Peter Schweitzer has 26,000 emails given to him by Hunter Biden's business partner Bevan Cooney who is now in jail. So there's that.

Minoosh 16th October 2020 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuttlt (Post 13259971)
Sure. Hillary's emails were supposedly hacked and released by the Russians and as far as I'm aware we never found out that they had been altered. Maybe the laptop was stolen and dropped off at the store by a Russian in a Biden mask? I don't know or care. The question is whether the emails are genuine. If they aren't it seems like it would be really easy for the Biden campaign to prove. Maybe they are waiting until the right moment to do that and are letting him go all in on this? It's possible. What ever happens the next few weeks are going to be entertaining.

Sounds like Birtherism, Part 2.

Two questions:

What level of proof you would accept from the Biden campaign?

And why the campaign? This has nothing to do with the election.

TahiniBinShawarma 16th October 2020 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minoosh (Post 13260301)
Sounds like Birtherism, Part 2.

Two questions:

What level of proof you would accept from the Biden campaign?

And why the campaign? This has nothing to do with the election.


I'm not sure why you would say that, given the emails supposedly have Hunter saying "Pop" makes him give half the money to him in one, and 10 million in Chinese money is for "the big man" in another.

The Great Zaganza 16th October 2020 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma (Post 13260304)
I'm not sure why you would say that, given the emails supposedly have Hunter saying "Pop" makes him give half the money to him in one, and 10 million in Chinese money is for "the big man" in another.

citation?

Elagabalus 16th October 2020 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma (Post 13260295)
Also, Peter Schweitzer has 26,000 emails given to him by Hunter Biden's business partner Bevan Cooney who is now in jail. So there's that.

Uh-huh. Pull the other one, agent trollski.

Silly Green Monkey 16th October 2020 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma (Post 13260286)
Also, Bannon, Giuliani, the guy from the video, and virus conspiracy chick in the mirror. Bannon is behind Giuliani. So while you are screaming Russia, it's more than likely China. Although, I haven't seen anything to say the laptop wasn't Hunter's, or that it was a hack. If anyone has evidence of that, I'd like to see it. The Campaign/Biden haven't alleged that.


People here are stuck on Russia/Ukraine/Burisma, the incriminating stuff is the China allegations.

Also, FoxNews supposedly contacted someone in the email chain regarding Chinese business FWIW. They supposedly authenticated the email.

How'd the laptop get from the west coast to the east coast? That's over three thousand miles to find a Mac repair place.

Minoosh 16th October 2020 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma (Post 13260295)
Also, Peter Schweitzer has 26,000 emails given to him by Hunter Biden's business partner Bevan Cooney who is now in jail. So there's that.

Therefore ... what?

TahiniBinShawarma 16th October 2020 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza (Post 13260306)
citation?

Take your pick.

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...4dUDCA0&uact=5

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...4dUDCA0&uact=5

Elagabalus 16th October 2020 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma (Post 13260314)

Golly! Did you google those all yourself?!

TahiniBinShawarma 16th October 2020 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey (Post 13260310)
How'd the laptop get from the west coast to the east coast? That's over three thousand miles to find a Mac repair place.


The shop was in Delaware, gee I wonder why a Biden would ever want to TRAVEL to Delaware. I mean, they are so poor and never go anywhere.

Minoosh 16th October 2020 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minoosh (Post 13260312)
Therefore ... what?

Ninja'd, pretty much. It's pathetic that Barr hasn't been able to indict any of Trump's enemies. I mean, there are reams of evidence. Thousands and thousands of emails.

Or maybe Barr is in on it?

Minoosh 16th October 2020 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma (Post 13260304)
I'm not sure why you would say that, given the emails supposedly have Hunter saying "Pop" makes him give half the money to him in one, and 10 million in Chinese money is for "the big man" in another.

You're not sure why I would say what?

TahiniBinShawarma 16th October 2020 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minoosh (Post 13260312)
Therefore ... what?

How would I know? I don't have them. All I was doing is pointing it out while we were on the subject of Biden's emails. Not sure why he would turn them over to a guy like Schweitzer. But it's going to be pretty funny seeing the reaction to whatever he does with them.


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