International Skeptics Forum

International Skeptics Forum (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/forumindex.php)
-   USA Politics (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=6)
-   -   FBI Warns of Right-Wing Mass Destruction Terrorism (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=347132)

ChristianProgressive 1st October 2020 01:40 PM

FBI Warns of Right-Wing Mass Destruction Terrorism
 
https://www.thenation.com/article/po...cist-boogaloo/

From the memo:

Quote:

“significant increase of violent social media posts of several boogaloo adherents in Texas which … indicate a propensity toward violence and acquiring weapons that cause mass casualties, used by a small number of attackers.”
and they may have police help in pulling them off.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...macists-police

If you're liberal and aren't armed, you need to make friends with ones who are.

Norman Alexander 1st October 2020 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive (Post 13243833)
https://www.thenation.com/article/po...cist-boogaloo/

From the memo:



and they may have police help in pulling them off.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...macists-police

If you're liberal and aren't armed, you need to make friends with ones who are.

Sure! Because adding more guns to a gun problem is guaranteed to make it better.

Bob001 1st October 2020 01:49 PM

Quote:

A Pro-Trump Militant Group Has Recruited Thousands of Police, Soldiers, and Veterans
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...il-war/616473/

ChristianProgressive 1st October 2020 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander (Post 13243837)
Sure! Because adding more guns to a gun problem is guaranteed to make it better.

"If you want peace, prepare for war."- Publius Flavius Vegetius Renatus

No fascist aggressor was ever stopped by laws, treaties, or negotiation.

The problem isn't too many guns, it's who has them and who doesn't.

Stacyhs 1st October 2020 02:05 PM

Just what we need: more testosterone fueled guys who think they're heroes with guns and God on their side who get their training from playing video games and acting like a bunch of beer swilling, camouflage wearing, flag waving idiots on weekends.

ChristianProgressive 1st October 2020 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13243865)
Just what we need: more testosterone fueled guys who think they're heroes with guns and God on their side

You mean like the Founding Fathers? Like the Union Army under Lincoln? The WW II generation?

Stacyhs 1st October 2020 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive (Post 13244123)
You mean like the Founding Fathers? Like the Union Army under Lincoln? The WW II generation?

I tell ya what. When we have an army being shipped by the thousands into our states, being billeted in our houses, and sent against us to enforce laws we had no say in passing, or states seceding and attacking our military, then we'll talk. Until then, you're just fomenting violence and behaving no differently than the Proud Boys. Same mentality. Get a grip.

varwoche 1st October 2020 11:23 PM

CP -- I urge you to put aside your fantasies for one short month, and channel your energy into getting out the vote. You could write postcards -- crowd source meets pandemic.

uke2se 2nd October 2020 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13244129)
I tell ya what. When we have an army being shipped by the thousands into our states, being billeted in our houses, and sent against us to enforce laws we had no say in passing, or states seceding and attacking our military, then we'll talk. Until then, you're just fomenting violence and behaving no differently than the Proud Boys. Same mentality. Get a grip.

Sounds like it would be a bit late to talk by then.

Stacyhs 2nd October 2020 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uke2se (Post 13244421)
Sounds like it would be a bit late to talk by then.

Cuz it ain't happening. It's just more scare mongering by Imma gonna git me a gun and hunker down cuz theyz cummin fer us crap.

ChristianProgressive 2nd October 2020 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13244129)
I tell ya what. When we have an army being shipped by the thousands into our states, being billeted in our houses, and sent against us to enforce laws we had no say in passing,.

we already do. they work for ICE, CBP, DHS, the prison systems, etc and they were deployed all across the US this year in sanitized uniforms to beat protesters, kidnap people off the streets to inject them with drugs and violate their civil rights. Meanwhile, their compatriots rum concentration camps where women have their uteruses ripped out by unqualified doctors.

ChristianProgressive 2nd October 2020 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by varwoche (Post 13244366)
CP -- I urge you to put aside your fantasies for one short month, and channel your energy into getting out the vote. You could write postcards -- crowd source meets pandemic.

You assume our electoral process is secure. It isn't and hasn't been since 2000. As long as Republicans count the elections and control the voting machines, they will throw any close election to their guy.

Joe Random 2nd October 2020 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive (Post 13245562)
we already do. they work for ICE, CBP, DHS, the prison systems, etc and they were deployed all across the US this year in sanitized uniforms to beat protesters, kidnap people off the streets to inject them with drugs and violate their civil rights. Meanwhile, their compatriots rum concentration camps where women have their uteruses ripped out by unqualified doctors.

The pills actually help if you take them.

cullennz 2nd October 2020 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive (Post 13243851)
"If you want peace, prepare for war."- Publius Flavius Vegetius Renatus

No fascist aggressor was ever stopped by laws, treaties, or negotiation.

The problem isn't too many guns, it's who has them and who doesn't.

Can I assume this is a parody account, or do some Americans actually think stupid stuff like this?

chrispy 2nd October 2020 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cullennz (Post 13245610)
Can I assume this is a parody account, or do some Americans actually think stupid stuff like this?

*sigh* My brother.

Stacyhs 3rd October 2020 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive (Post 13245562)
we already do. they work for ICE, CBP, DHS, the prison systems, etc and they were deployed all across the US this year in sanitized uniforms to beat protesters, kidnap people off the streets to inject them with drugs and violate their civil rights. Meanwhile, their compatriots rum concentration camps where women have their uteruses ripped out by unqualified doctors.

So your suggestion is for us to buy guns, form our own little armies and attack ICE, CBP, DHS, the prisons, etc? Do I have that right? I just want to make sure I'm not misunderstanding you.

Stacyhs 3rd October 2020 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cullennz (Post 13245610)
Can I assume this is a parody account, or do some Americans actually think stupid stuff like this?

Some Americans actually think stupid stuff like this but they're usually called Trump supporters.

Mumbles 3rd October 2020 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13245810)
Some Americans actually think stupid stuff like this but they're usually called Trump supporters.

Nah, it's been true the entire time. Main problem is that the far right that actually tries to act usually consist of bungling oafs that snitch on themselves to the FBI, small groups that promptly stab one another in the back, and so forth. Most of the rest are puppies yapping at whatever frightens them.

But let's not pretend we haven't seen a bunch of mass shootings, intimidation rallies, pipe bombs sent out, and the like, often with the open approval of local police - and often operating in areas where the cops have a long history of aiding violent far right nuts.

The Don 3rd October 2020 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive (Post 13243851)
"If you want peace, prepare for war."- Publius Flavius Vegetius Renatus

No fascist aggressor was ever stopped by laws, treaties, or negotiation.

The problem isn't too many guns, it's who has them and who doesn't.

They also weren't stopped by a well-armed but otherwise poorly organised and trained populace.

uke2se 3rd October 2020 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13245896)
They also weren't stopped by a well-armed but otherwise poorly organised and trained populace.

Last time they were stopped by the Red Army. Should we just decide to wait for those guys agan?

dirtywick 3rd October 2020 04:54 AM

People who have these violent fantasy scenarios always imagine themselves as the hero who survives everything and everyone else is the victim.

Craig4 3rd October 2020 05:23 AM

The smart play is when the election is called and it's a Biden victory, stay home. Don't go out to counter protest the Trumptrash. Trump will want to exploit the violence in the streets. That can't happen is no one shows up. Besides if Biden wins, what's to protest?

As to the gun thing, if you're in Portland, Oregon who could you possibly shoot that would have an impact on the transfer of power? What good does it do you? The transfer of power will happen in Washington DC and no amount of violence anywhere else will have an impact on that. So relax, the Police in Washington DC aren't the police in Kenosha. Have an armed, open carry protest here and your brains are will be wall art.

Finally, if I'm the voice of reason, there's a ******* problem here.

Craig4 3rd October 2020 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive (Post 13243851)

No fascist aggressor was ever stopped by laws, treaties, or negotiation.

Bull-****. Lots of internal fascist aggressors have been stopped with application of the laws. You're not talking about an external fascist state attacking us, you're talking about an internal insurrection. Law enforcement stops those all the time. The fact that the FBI issued a report on the topic likely means that stopping these groups through enforcing the law is sort of what they have in mind.

Hlafordlaes 3rd October 2020 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive (Post 13243851)
No fascist aggressor was ever stopped by laws, treaties, or negotiation.

Agreed. Appeasement does not work at all; rather, it is a big come-on.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig4 (Post 13245959)
Bull-****. Lots of internal fascist aggressors have been stopped with application of the laws. You're not talking about an external fascist state attacking us, you're talking about an internal insurrection. Law enforcement stops those all the time. The fact that the FBI issued a report on the topic likely means that stopping these groups through enforcing the law is sort of what they have in mind.

True as well, but this relies on internal law enforcement being uncompromised, and increasingly it seems local police are indeed so, as well as the effects of whatever erosion in the due diligence and credentials of the Justice Department/FBI/judicial system/SCOTUS that has taken place, i.e., everything Trump et al have been "fixing" full time, full swing, full bore, like good mobsters.

I do not, however, believe guns to be the solution. If there is a goon takeover, it will be game over in short order for the stock market and US ability to influence the world. Most likely short term outcome is a shift to a new world currency, or a basket thereof, as former allies beat a very hasty retreat, especially from the US-dominated international banking system. Yet oddly, and as is their custom, when those with the real money decide the goons they've been financing are a greater threat to their interests than would be a return to a tax-and-spend society, they will beat a partial retreat. The first to jump ship from the far-rightward push may be the wealthy Jewish supporters of today's GOP, who are beginning to see the big "oops" that partnering with fascists is (the Trump to "Cruz Missile" threat). High tech and advanced industry in this day and age need global markets, far more than they did last century, and will always push back enough to counter protectionism, so there's that as well.

When things are in the balance, it is the balance of powerful interests that will call the shots, barring insurrection. The latter is not worth it, I would argue, as the chain reaction from a Trump win/takeover will automatically align world events greatly against US interests and provoke an internal backlash of critical support for the rule of law. Or so one hopes.

Civil war, FWIW, would be far worse.

tanabear 3rd October 2020 12:21 PM

RE: FBI Warns of Right-Wing Mass Destruction Terrorism
 
Well, it looks like some white supremacists got away with it again. Some white racist frat boys from Wisconsin attacked Althea Bernstein, a biracial woman, because they are all racist and stuff.

"A biracial Wisconsin woman who says a group of white men set her on fire while she was driving wants her attackers to know they hurt her but hopes they will improve themselves.

Althea Bernstein told ABC’s “Good Morning America” for a Friday segment that she hasn’t slept and doesn’t have an appetite. But she called the attack in the state’s capital city of Madison
."

Even after Good Morning America and the Duchess of Sussex, Meghan Markle, bring attention to the attack those racist frat boys remain elusive. Is Haven Monahan still at large? Unfortunately, it looks like those racist frat boys will remain free to terrorize other biracial people.

Coincidentally, on the same night and almost at the same time, there was a mostly peaceful protest going on in Madison, Wisconsin. This mostly peaceful protest included fire-bombing a Madison government building. Now I'm sure an all-American girl like Althea Bernstein wouldn't have been involved in this mostly peaceful arson attack. You see she just happened to be near the event, she was not participating in the event.

"The firebombing was part of a larger Black Lives Matter protest in which protesters tore down two statues on the Capitol Square, including one of a Union Civil War soldier and abolitionist. The protest had started in response to the arrest hours before of a local Black Lives Matter activist now facing state and federal charges for allegedly trying to extort money from at least one Downtown business."

NO! Those statues of a Union soldier and an abolitionist were obviously torn down by the same racist confederates who attacked a biracial woman.

varwoche 3rd October 2020 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes (Post 13246100)
<snip thoughtful post for brevity>

I like to think that if Trump steals the election, so many people will passionately oppose that we will take to the street -- strategically and peacefully. We can shut down the country if there's enough of us.

Every major airport, seaport, rail line, and every city block that has a Trump property. No democracy, no commerce.

Unfortunately for the forces of fascism and theocracy, Trump has already made it completely impossible for the opposition to trust a Trump outcome. It would be funny, in a most demented way, if he were to win "legitimately". Scare quotes due to unknowability. A most uncomfortable future awaits you no matter the election outcome. Tough luck.

I hope it's not neccesary. We need to be patient and not freak out on Nov 4.

The_Animus 3rd October 2020 01:52 PM

If a peaceful resolution to all this is possible it's obviously preferred. I don't think anyone here actually wants violence. The difference is that some here feel that the belief that everything is just going to work out via non-violent means is naive. There have been a hundred times where people kept thinking this time, this thing, it will break the camels back and the Democrats or the FBI or whoever will finally stop the fascists' march to authoritarianism. How's that been working out?

If the trend of ICE/DHS/Border Patrol/Police/Right Wing Militias escalating violence and fascism continues (and why would you assume otherwise given what we've seen), then why isn't being prepared to counteract that, through force if needed, a prudent action?

What else do you expect to stop them when they decide to go full SS for Trump?

Stacyhs 3rd October 2020 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Some Americans actually think stupid stuff like this but they're usually called Trump supporters.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mumbles (Post 13245839)
Nah, it's been true the entire time. Main problem is that the far right that actually tries to act usually consist of bungling oafs that snitch on themselves to the FBI, small groups that promptly stab one another in the back, and so forth. Most of the rest are puppies yapping at whatever frightens them.

But let's not pretend we haven't seen a bunch of mass shootings, intimidation rallies, pipe bombs sent out, and the like, often with the open approval of local police - and often operating in areas where the cops have a long history of aiding violent far right nuts.

True, those were around before Trump and they support Trump.

Stacyhs 3rd October 2020 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uke2se (Post 13245930)
Last time they were stopped by the Red Army. Should we just decide to wait for those guys agan?

Fantasies of Red Dawn are just that: fantasies. This is the real world.

Captain_Swoop 3rd October 2020 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uke2se (Post 13245930)
Last time they were stopped by the Red Army. Should we just decide to wait for those guys agan?

haha

CORed 3rd October 2020 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mumbles (Post 13245839)
Nah, it's been true the entire time. Main problem is that the far right that actually tries to act usually consist of bungling oafs that snitch on themselves to the FBI, small groups that promptly stab one another in the back, and so forth. Most of the rest are puppies yapping at whatever frightens them.

But let's not pretend we haven't seen a bunch of mass shootings, intimidation rallies, pipe bombs sent out, and the like, often with the open approval of local police - and often operating in areas where the cops have a long history of aiding violent far right nuts.

I think you're right. These guys are no real threat to take over, but they can cause a lot of trouble, even if they are about as likely to shoot themselves in the feet as they are to shoot somebody else.

Hercules Rockefeller 3rd October 2020 04:21 PM

Don't know if this is the best thread to post this in, but All Gas No Brakes just released a video from a Proud Boys Rally in Portland, OR. What a bunch of ******* wankers. Dangerous wankers.


YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

uke2se 3rd October 2020 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13246386)
Fantasies of Red Dawn are just that: fantasies. This is the real world.

In the real world, fascists are murdering and kidnapping people in the streets and their leader occupies the White House.

Stacyhs 3rd October 2020 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uke2se (Post 13246475)
In the real world, fascists are murdering and kidnapping people in the streets and their leader occupies the White House.

You've convinced me. What would you suggest? An AK 47, an AR 15, or maybe a Bushmaster for a beginner like me? Something I don't have to really aim since I'm not a trained shooter. Something I can just point and spray bullets and do a lot of damage. Or maybe hand grenades? Nah. I'll just see if I can get a tank. I've got a three car garage I can fit one into. Do they have camouflage outfits in pink?

Stacyhs 3rd October 2020 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hercules Rockefeller (Post 13246461)
Don't know if this is the best thread to post this in, but All Gas No Brakes just released a video from a Proud Boys Rally in Portland, OR. What a bunch of ******* wankers. Dangerous wankers.


YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

They have the combined IQ of a slug. And I'm insulting slugs.

uke2se 4th October 2020 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13246698)
You've convinced me. What would you suggest? An AK 47, an AR 15, or maybe a Bushmaster for a beginner like me? Something I don't have to really aim since I'm not a trained shooter. Something I can just point and spray bullets and do a lot of damage. Or maybe hand grenades? Nah. I'll just see if I can get a tank. I've got a three car garage I can fit one into. Do they have camouflage outfits in pink?

I don't think you should get a gun. I just think you should think about what you are going to do if it all kicks off.

Mumbles 4th October 2020 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13246385)
True, those were around before Trump and they support Trump.

Yup, he's a symptom, not a cause.

But, well, how should I put this? Even with his raving about "poll watchers" making sure everyone is legal (another long-running GOP strategy), there's a reason why these guys pick marginal areas, and never show up in, say, the Bronx, the South Side, and other such areas. Same reason why white nationalists shoot up bible study groups or folks out shopping.

Simply put, they know if they show up in a heavy nonwhite area, particularly a urban black area, it's them against a 2+ hour long line of black people who are already on a mission, and they're going to get their dumb asses beat.

cullennz 4th October 2020 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13245810)
Some Americans actually think stupid stuff like this but they're usually called Trump supporters.

Um no.

It tends to come from both sides in the US.

Odd old place the US

Hlafordlaes 4th October 2020 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Animus (Post 13246370)
... What else do you expect to stop them when they decide to go full SS for Trump?

Could happen. Seems most every cop in the nation is friendly to the Proud Boys and envy the freedom to pound liberals at will. In the case of the goons taking over, Russia, Turkey, Poland, Hungary, the Saudis and Bolsonaro's Brazil, plus a few more, will cheer. Not a strong enough alliance of strategic interests, as this excludes both the EU and China. More of a losers club.

Whatever happens, it will be a very close call between private interests and the public interest. Will the 0.1% go for Hitler 2.0?

kookbreaker 4th October 2020 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mumbles (Post 13246802)
Yup, he's a symptom, not a cause.

But, well, how should I put this? Even with his raving about "poll watchers" making sure everyone is legal (another long-running GOP strategy), there's a reason why these guys pick marginal areas, and never show up in, say, the Bronx, the South Side, and other such areas. Same reason why white nationalists shoot up bible study groups or folks out shopping.

Simply put, they know if they show up in a heavy nonwhite area, particularly a urban black area, it's them against a 2+ hour long line of black people who are already on a mission, and they're going to get their dumb asses beat.

I dunno, they just tried that stunt in Philadelphia (hence the "bad things happen" line from Trump). Mind you, they did so at the City Hall location which is probably more racially balanced than say, North Philadelphia.

https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile...nd-disruptive/

I expect there may be a lot of yahoos from out of town trying to do stunts by driving their jacked-up picks by minority neighborhood polling places and yelling insults and threats. But yeah, I expect that they won't slow their trucks down for anything for fear of a beat-down.


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:41 AM.

Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2015-20, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.