International Skeptics Forum

International Skeptics Forum (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/forumindex.php)
-   Social Issues & Current Events (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=82)
-   -   Ellen DeGeneres Responds to George Bush Photo Criticism (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=339469)

Graham2001 8th October 2019 06:07 AM

Ellen DeGeneres Responds to George Bush Photo Criticism
 
Quote:

Ellen DeGeneres has responded to the pointed social media criticism she has faced after sitting next to former President George Bush at Sunday's Dallas Cowboys-Green Bay Packers.


...Users brought up Bush's conservative politics that were anti-LGBTQ as well as the countless deaths from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan that happened during his term and many felt the Ellen host was helping to rehabilitate his image.



...


peaking about the backlash, DeGeneres said that "people were upset: Why is a gay Hollywood liberal sitting next to a conservative president? A lot of people were mad." But she pivoted by putting up one positive tweet which said, "Ellen and George Bush together makes me have faith in America again." Building on the theme of that tweet, Degenres added: "Here's the thing: I'm friends with George Bush, in fact I'm friends with a lot of people who don't share the same beliefs that I have. We are all different and I think we've forgotten that that's OK that we're all different."

https://www.msn.com/en-au/entertainm...vrr?li=AAgfLCP

Darat 8th October 2019 06:13 AM

Bit of head scratching here, struggling to think of anything but "and?"



:confused:

TragicMonkey 8th October 2019 06:14 AM

Awww, two multimillionaires can overcome their vast differences. How charming. A real inspiration to multimillionaires of all races and creeds and sexualities.

theprestige 8th October 2019 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey (Post 12848480)
Awww, two multimillionaires can overcome their vast differences. How charming. A real inspiration to multimillionaires of all races and creeds and sexualities.

Your don't have to be a millionaire, to get along with the people around you.

Cavemonster 8th October 2019 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12848487)
Your don't have to be a millionaire, to get along with the people around you.

But it sure as hell helps.

TragicMonkey 8th October 2019 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12848487)
Your don't have to be a millionaire, to get along with the people around you.

As usual, you miss the point.

theprestige 8th October 2019 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey (Post 12848490)
As usual, you miss the point.

As usual, you actively obscure the point, so I don't feel like this one is on me.

TragicMonkey 8th October 2019 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12848493)
As usual, you actively obscure the point, so I don't feel like this one is on me.

The point, which is obvious to everyone else, is that the minor differences in political opinions of those two persons are nothing compared to the vast similarities they share by virtue of being staggeringly wealthy. Neither of them has to consider suicide if they get too ill to work. Neither of them is going to miss a meal if they don't choose to. Neither of them has to forego medical treatment due to cost. They can afford, in every sense, the luxury of disregarding such trifling matters that consume the majority. They will sit in comfy chairs nibbling on delicacies while millions suffer, and pride themselves on how open-minded and good they are to be buddies.

The cancer cells get along splendidly with each other. Why wouldn't they?

theprestige 8th October 2019 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cavemonster (Post 12848488)
But it sure as hell helps.

I'm not convinced it does.

theprestige 8th October 2019 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey (Post 12848506)
The point, which is obvious to everyone else, is that the minor differences in political opinions of those two persons are nothing compared to the vast similarities they share by virtue of being staggeringly wealthy. Neither of them has to consider suicide if they get too ill to work. Neither of them is going to miss a meal if they don't choose to. Neither of them has to forego medical treatment due to cost. They can afford, in every sense, the luxury of disregarding such trifling matters that consume the majority. They will sit in comfy chairs nibbling on delicacies while millions suffer, and pride themselves on how open-minded and good they are to be buddies.



The cancer cells get along splendidly with each other. Why wouldn't they?

The point is that you see them as indistinguishable, therefore they must see each other as indistinguishable?

---

There are also far reaching implications of your hypothesis, which I am certain you have often considered, but which you are disregarding in the present era.

TragicMonkey 8th October 2019 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12848512)
The point is that you see them as indistinguishable, therefore they must see each other as indistinguishable?

---

There are also far reaching implications of your hypothesis, which I am certain you have often considered, but which you are disregarding in the present era.

I didn't say "indistinguishable". They are more similar than they are different is what I said.

And **** your "implications". It's time for a jacquerie.

SuburbanTurkey 8th October 2019 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey (Post 12848480)
Awww, two multimillionaires can overcome their vast differences. How charming. A real inspiration to multimillionaires of all races and creeds and sexualities.

Rich people have class solidarity, news at 11.

TragicMonkey 8th October 2019 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 12848523)
Rich people have class solidarity, news at 11.

Apparently it IS news to some.

theprestige 8th October 2019 07:03 AM

My bad. I should have said hypotheses, plural. Sorry about that.

SuburbanTurkey 8th October 2019 07:09 AM

"I say potato, you say the Constitution should be amended to criminalize my sexuality". Building bridges.

The kneejerk instinct of Democrats to rehabilitate the reputation of W. is absolutely bizarre to see.

Lithrael 8th October 2019 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 12848523)
Rich people have class solidarity, news at 11.

Itís so heartwarming how old money and new money can be friends these days.

Porpoise of Life 8th October 2019 07:12 AM

You guys are so cynical. I'm sure wealth has nothing to do with it and Mr Bush has plenty of poor black gay friends too.

TragicMonkey 8th October 2019 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 12848537)
"I say potato, you say the Constitution should be amended to criminalize my sexuality". Building bridges.

But even if such an amendment were made, Ellen would be unlikely to suffer from it. We have seen throughout history that the wealthy are insulated from consequences. Being gay WAS illegal for long periods of history but it wasn't the rich who got punished for it. Wealth lifts people out of the life the rest of us lead.

Thermal 8th October 2019 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey (Post 12848547)
But even if such an amendment were made, Ellen would be unlikely to suffer from it. We have seen throughout history that the wealthy are insulated from consequences. Being gay WAS illegal for long periods of history but it wasn't the rich who got punished for it. Wealth lifts people out of the life the rest of us lead.

Truth. It's almost comical when people think the tribal lines are sincerely drawn along ideology. They are drawn along net worth. Most of us are just the rabble that cheers for them.

kellyb 8th October 2019 07:32 AM

The man lied us into a war that killed tens of thousands of people, and he brought back torture.

I'm friends with people who have different beliefs from me, too, but there are lines in the sand.

Pedophiles, Nazis...war criminals would be one, if I were rich enough to somehow end up in a mutual social circle with one.

theprestige 8th October 2019 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life (Post 12848544)
You guys are so cynical. I'm sure wealth has nothing to do with it and Mr Bush has plenty of poor black gay friends too.

Begging the question that Bush and Degeneres are friends.

I really do think wealth has nothing to do with it. I really do think anyone can sit amicably next to someone they don't care for, in a public setting for a couple hours. I think that's a basic human capability, that is not particularly influenced by relative wealth.

Just like wealthy people can be in vehement and toxic opposition to each other, in spite of their supposed class solidarity. Just like poor people can be the same.

And I think that to suggest otherwise is profoundly dehumanizing to rich and poor alike. For me, the most depressing thing about the current political idiom is how aggressively dehumanizing it is. And how enthusiastically you and other progressives invest in it.

kellyb 8th October 2019 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12848597)
Begging the question that Bush and Degeneres are friends.

From the OP:

Quote:

Degenres added: "Here's the thing: I'm friends with George Bush, in fact I'm friends with a lot of people who don't share the same beliefs that I have.
They're friends.

Quote:

I really do think wealth has nothing to do with it. I really do think anyone can sit amicably next to someone they don't care for, in a public setting for a couple hours. I think that's a basic human capability, that is not particularly influenced by relative wealth.
There's "people you don't care for," and then there's mass murderers and torturers.

theprestige 8th October 2019 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey (Post 12848526)
Apparently it IS news to some.

Probably because it's crap. George Soros and Charles Koch are both millionaires. Do you see a lot of class solidarity there? President Obama and Chief Justice Roberts are both millionaires. Do you see a lot of class solidarity there? Like hell you do. Elizabeth Warren and President Trump are both millionaires. Class solidarity? Pull the other one. Mitch McConnell and Hillary Clinton. Al Franken and Kris--Actually, Senator Gillibrand's net worth is only around half a million dollars. So that one is kind of understandable. Though it's probably a shame that Gillibrand couldn't set class aside in favor of political solidarity, like all these other high class people seem to do.

theprestige 8th October 2019 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kellyb (Post 12848620)
From the OP:



They're friends.



There's "people you don't care for," and then there's mass murderers and torturers.

Thanks for the correction.

kellyb 8th October 2019 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12848629)
Probably because it's crap. George Soros and Charles Koch are both millionaires. Do you see a lot of class solidarity there?

Of course:

https://www.vox.com/2019/7/1/2067744...-wars-military

Quote:

There’s an unlikely pair of philanthropists behind Washington, DC’s, newest think tank.

The new outfit, launched yesterday, is called the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft, and it’s funded by liberal billionaire George Soros and libertarian billionaire Charles Koch
ETA:

They have some other shared hobbies they do together, as well:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=334267

theprestige 8th October 2019 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kellyb (Post 12848620)
From the OP:



They're friends.



There's "people you don't care for," and then there's mass murderers and torturers.

Maybe she knows him better than you do? They're friends. Perhaps they've talked about these issues and she's got insights that you don't have.

But whatever. They're friends, in spite of what you imagine must be irreconcilable differences. Other than "class solidarity" (which is a crock of ****), what explanation can you offer?

Porpoise of Life 8th October 2019 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12848597)
Begging the question that Bush and Degeneres are friends.

I really do think wealth has nothing to do with it. I really do think anyone can sit amicably next to someone they don't care for, in a public setting for a couple hours. I think that's a basic human capability, that is not particularly influenced by relative wealth.

Just like wealthy people can be in vehement and toxic opposition to each other, in spite of their supposed class solidarity. Just like poor people can be the same.

And I think that to suggest otherwise is profoundly dehumanizing to rich and poor alike. For me, the most depressing thing about the current political idiom is how aggressively dehumanizing it is. And how enthusiastically you and other progressives invest in it.

Sure, Anyone should be able to sit next to someone they don't care for without causing a scene. And calling someone out on twitter for doing so isn't going to do anyone any good.

But I do think wealth is a factor here.( I'll ignore the obvious fact of being able to afford skybox tickets to an NFL game).
What makes it so that DeGeneres and Bush move in the same circles, and what immunizes her sufficiently from consequences of the views and policies of politicians like Bush to make her consider him a buddy rather than someone who is opposed to people like her? I'd wager that being rich is a factor here.

kellyb 8th October 2019 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12848642)
Maybe she knows him better than you do? They're friends. Perhaps they've talked about these issues and she's got insights that you don't have.

But whatever. They're friends, in spite of what you imagine must be irreconcilable differences. Other than "class solidarity" (which is a crock of ****), what explanation can you offer?

I don't think it's a crock of **** at all.

Because she's in the same social class as him, she sees him as just someone who she doesn't have the "same beliefs" as.

An elite criminal is someone she can be cool with. If he were a common criminal/murderer/torturer, I doubt she'd be so charitable.

Steve 8th October 2019 09:37 AM

People, people, people! Can you find something more trivial to talk about than who sits with who at a football game. You are discussing a retired politician and a boring entertainer. They just do not matter.

Oh, except the parts where people talk about their money. That is very important.

applecorped 8th October 2019 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey (Post 12848506)
The point, which is obvious to everyone else, is that the minor differences in political opinions of those two persons are nothing compared to the vast similarities they share by virtue of being staggeringly wealthy. Neither of them has to consider suicide if they get too ill to work. Neither of them is going to miss a meal if they don't choose to. Neither of them has to forego medical treatment due to cost. They can afford, in every sense, the luxury of disregarding such trifling matters that consume the majority. They will sit in comfy chairs nibbling on delicacies while millions suffer, and pride themselves on how open-minded and good they are to be buddies.

The cancer cells get along splendidly with each other. Why wouldn't they?

It was an obvious to me feel free to make a snarky comment reply

applecorped 8th October 2019 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kellyb (Post 12848660)
I don't think it's a crock of **** at all.

Because she's in the same social class as him, she sees him as just someone who she doesn't have the "same beliefs" as.

An elite criminal is someone she can be cool with. If he were a common criminal/murderer/torturer, I doubt she'd be so charitable.

True it's not a crock of s*** it's 10 Olympic swimming pools filled with s***

Mumbles 8th October 2019 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey (Post 12848480)
Awww, two multimillionaires can overcome their vast differences. How charming. A real inspiration to multimillionaires of all races and creeds and sexualities.

Solidarity can bring together some people, even against their supposed best interests. Does Ellen really *need* to marry anyone to ensure legal rights and protections - or could she just hire a lawyer to ensure most legal rights, and plain pressure others? If push came to shove...

"Sorry, only spouses can visit you in here."

Ellen: "Um, you know who I am, right? Let her in, or I'll have you fired."

"Um...right away, ma'am, sorry."

xjx388 8th October 2019 02:45 PM

Wow . . . not exactly the reaction I thought I'd see.

I thought it was kinda cool that two people with opposite viewpoints can be friends. Maybe Bush has convinced her on some economic policies and Ellen has convinced him on some social policies? Maybe they are friends because they don't represent the extremes of their ostensible ideologies?

We really don't know. What we do know is that they are friendly. And what in the hell is wrong with that? That's what we need if we are going to get over this hyper-partisan environment we currently live in. If W and Ellen can be friendly, there's at least some little sliver of hope for the country

dudalb 8th October 2019 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xjx388 (Post 12849142)
Wow . . . not exactly the reaction I thought I'd see.

I thought it was kinda cool that two people with opposite viewpoints can be friends. Maybe Bush has convinced her on some economic policies and Ellen has convinced him on some social policies? Maybe they are friends because they don't represent the extremes of their ostensible ideologies?

We really don't know. What we do know is that they are friendly. And what in the hell is wrong with that? That's what we need if we are going to get over this hyper-partisan environment we currently live in. If W and Ellen can be friendly, there's at least some little sliver of hope for the country

SOme of the attitudes in this thread sum up everything I do not like about the dogmatic Left in this country...which, surprise, are the same things I do not like about the dogmatic Right.
In fact that people with differing political opinions seem to automatically hate each other is what could destroy democracy in this country. Democracy depends on Compromise, and compromise with somebody you think is evil is hard.
Right now, the Right is displaying this much more then the Left, but I think the Left is showing signs of eventually catching up.
And of course it's the other side that is in the wrong, you side is as pure as the driven snow...

johnny karate 8th October 2019 03:04 PM

If conservatives are wondering what happened to civility, they should check the shallow grave they left its body in.

TragicMonkey 8th October 2019 03:24 PM

Meanwhile, today the Supreme Court heard a case to determine whether gays can be protected from discrimination. Looks like they're leaning towards "no". It's 2019 and I can be fired for being gay.

Go ahead, tell me how both sides are full of good people.

theprestige 8th October 2019 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny karate (Post 12849155)
If conservatives are wondering what happened to civility, they should check the shallow grave they left its body in.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I've got Ellen Degeneres and George W Bush being friends, so I'm doing alright.

Venom 8th October 2019 03:38 PM

It doesn't bother me that people keep seeing Iraq when Bush is brought up.

He deserves it.

theprestige 8th October 2019 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venom (Post 12849180)
It doesn't bother me that people keep seeing Iraq when Bush is brought up.

He deserves it.

Wait, why does he deserve us seeing it every time it's brought up?

mgidm86 8th October 2019 04:22 PM

SOOOO.....all rich people like each other? They must, according to this thread, I mean money bridges all gaps, right?

Adults - real adults - can put aside differences.

People can argue to the point of extreme rudeness here at this forum, yet if you go to the Member's Only area you will see these same people cracking jokes, giving advice to each other and talking.

There used to be a thing with the JREF called The Amazing Meeting where people from here and other skeptic arenas would meet in Vegas.

Two attorneys can viciously fight against each other in court and still go for drinks afterward.

What a silly thread. Everything is a gawdam crisis these days. The lambs are laying with the lions, oh my word!!!


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:22 AM.

Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2015-19, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.