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-   -   Covid-19 and Politics (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=342577)

Mr Fied 1st June 2020 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13109576)
Please tell me there are no punters. I mean it's bad enough that the jockeys, lads and officials have to risk life and limb but I hope that there aren't thousands of punters congregating around the onsite bookies.

No punters, no owners either.

Not sure how many other staff are needed apart from jockeys and trainers.

Captain_Swoop 1st June 2020 08:10 AM

All the 'Punters' are busy fighting in the parks and on the beaches.

Captain_Swoop 1st June 2020 08:45 AM

Kevin Hollinrake Tory MP for Thirsk and Malton tweeted about the people on the protest in London
"Hope these people don’t blame the government if there’s a 2nd spike"
He hasn't peeped a word condemning the throngs on the beaches or celebrating VE day recently.
Is the official line going to be that we got a second wave because we fought racism? I genuinely don't know if I'm joking.

Mid 1st June 2020 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13109629)
Kevin Hollinrake Tory MP for Thirsk and Malton tweeted about the people on the protest in London
"Hope these people donít blame the government if thereís a 2nd spike"
He hasn't peeped a word condemning the throngs on the beaches or celebrating VE day recently.
Is the official line going to be that we got a second wave because we fought racism? I genuinely don't know if I'm joking.

The Government's line will be to blame anyone but themselves. And if it looks like blame is heading their way do something irresponsible but temporarily crowd pleasing to distract the press. And when that blows up on them they'll repeat the process.

Squeegee Beckenheim 1st June 2020 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13109629)
Kevin Hollinrake Tory MP for Thirsk and Malton tweeted about the people on the protest in London
"Hope these people donít blame the government if thereís a 2nd spike"
He hasn't peeped a word condemning the throngs on the beaches or celebrating VE day recently.
Is the official line going to be that we got a second wave because we fought racism? I genuinely don't know if I'm joking.

That'll definitely be Trump's line. I don't know how easy a sell it'll be here, though.

p0lka 1st June 2020 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13109629)
Kevin Hollinrake Tory MP for Thirsk and Malton tweeted about the people on the protest in London
"Hope these people don’t blame the government if there’s a 2nd spike"
He hasn't peeped a word condemning the throngs on the beaches or celebrating VE day recently.
Is the official line going to be that we got a second wave because we fought racism? I genuinely don't know if I'm joking.

Well in my opinion the goal will be to not be responsible for it, if or when there is a second spike.
the flailing around and pointing is to be expected.

The Cummings issue might well bite them in the arse though, as it should be pointed out when they blame the people, that Boris showed a lack of leadership by defending his advisors decision to flout the very rules that the people are supposed to be following.

P.J. Denyer 1st June 2020 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim (Post 13109850)
That'll definitely be Trump's line. I don't know how easy a sell it'll be here, though.

Why not? Johnson has spent a couple of decades being publicly not responsible for his failings.

Ulf Nereng 1st June 2020 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13109590)
All the 'Punters' are busy fighting in the parks and on the beaches.

I misread that at first as "... on the benches". It's a little more cryptic that way, but also funnier, IMO. :p

Captain_Swoop 1st June 2020 02:33 PM

I think we will avoid the second wave by keeping the first one going.

Captain_Swoop 1st June 2020 02:48 PM

BAME review delayed again due to 'proximity' to US race riots over George Floyd's death

Quote:

A review into how the BAME community has been affected by COVID-19 has been delayed again because of "worries" around "current global events", Sky News understands.
Public Health England's review was commissioned by Health Secretary Matt Hancock and due for release "by the end of May" as per the terms of reference.
But government sources said it was being put on hold until Wednesday because it was not ready for publishing.
They now say it has been delayed further because it is in "close proximity to the current situation in America" and it would be a "bad combination" if it was released amid global outrage over the death of George Floyd in Minneapolis.
So the report is damning then.

The Don 2nd June 2020 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13110019)
BAME review delayed again due to 'proximity' to US race riots over George Floyd's death

Of course :rolleyes:

I suppose it's not quite as bad as "We cannot release the results of the enquiry into Event A because it's still too close and we don't want to upset the families" followed some time later by "There's no point releasing the results of the enquiry into Event A because too much has changed and it's no longer relevant". :mad:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13110019)
So the report is damning then.

Probably, so it'll be put in the same filing cabinet alongside the report into Russian interference in the Brexit campaign and another set of "Beware of the leopard" signs will need to be printed.

Anyway it'll all be alright because the BAME community is renowned for their sunny disposition (as well as their dazzling smiles and great sense of rhythm) so they won't mind waiting a while. :rolleyes:

The Don 2nd June 2020 01:00 AM

I note that the UK government is looking to loosen quarantine restrictions before they're even put in place.

If there was any doubt that the UK government has completely abandoned "the science" and instead is looking for ways to placate the public and business regardless of the risks, this is another piece of damning evidence.

Quote:

The government is looking at ways to relax the 14-day quarantine rule for people entering the UK over the coming months, BBC Newsnight has learnt.

From Monday, most people arriving by plane, ferry or train - including UK nationals - must self-isolate.

But some MPs and businesses have expressed concern at the plan, warning it will damage the travel industry.

One government source told Newsnight that ministers were looking at ways around the coronavirus quarantine.
Of course, given how poorly the UK government has handled the Coronavirus outbreak, an influx of people from almost any other country will result in a proportional drop in the number of cases and deaths so maybe they have a point. :rolleyes: :boggled:

Captain_Swoop 2nd June 2020 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13110524)
I note that the UK government is looking to loosen quarantine restrictions before they're even put in place.

If there was any doubt that the UK government has completely abandoned "the science" and instead is looking for ways to placate the public and business regardless of the risks, this is another piece of damning evidence.



Of course, given how poorly the UK government has handled the Coronavirus outbreak, an influx of people from almost any other country will result in a proportional drop in the number of cases and deaths so maybe they have a point. :rolleyes: :boggled:

I was just going to post that, what a complete pack of useless twats.


Both the Sun and the Mailare against the quarantine so the govt are obviously going to find a way round their own rules.

The Don 2nd June 2020 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13110553)
I was just going to post that, what a complete pack of useless twats.

So far it seems that encountering someone outside for a couple of seconds at a distance of several metres or touching a surface or item that someone else has touched doesn't seem to be a major way to spread Coronavirus. OTOH, spending extended periods of time in close proximity in places where airflow is restricted isn't a good idea.

Mrs Don isn't an epidemiologist but her view is that, if your local area isn't particularly hard hit by Coronavirus (as our immediate area isn't) then it's probably OK for people within that area to mix (whilst maintaining social distancing). In her view what needs to be prevented is for people from outside that area coming in and mixing with the local population.

Conversely if your local area is hard hit, you can protect the rest of the country by staying put.

What we don't need is people travelling up and down the country to throw themselves off the local geology or to have an influx of tourists, or Brits returning from holidays overseas.

The advice in Wales is to travel no more than 5 miles if you want to mix socially (though a pragmatic view will be taken in very sparsely populated areas) and when you mix, do so responsibly. On Sunday the Heddlu were out in force reminding people that the new guidelines were not yet in force but that even if they were, you and your five mates riding their crotch-rockets down the Wye Valley isn't essential travel ;)

The Don 2nd June 2020 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13110553)
Both the Sun and the Mail are against the quarantine so the govt are obviously going to find a way round their own rules.

Thought they were both generally in favour of making it as difficult as possible for filthy foreigners to come over here as possible ? :confused:

Heck, that was one of the key reasons why they were so in favour of Brexit (despite it being an act of national self-harm :mad:).

The Don 2nd June 2020 03:23 AM

Why are Conservative MPs so determined to put people's lives in danger ? :confused:

Quote:

Eleven Welsh Conservative MPs have called on Welsh ministers to explain the "scientific basis" behind the decision to allow more activity outdoors - but only locally.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-w...ost_type=share

I'd have thought it was effing obvious. The best way to stop a virulent pandemic spreading is to stop people moving around will-nilly :mad:

Squeegee Beckenheim 2nd June 2020 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer (Post 13109947)
Why not? Johnson has spent a couple of decades being publicly not responsible for his failings.

Oh, I'm sure it won't be the government's fault. I'm just not sure if they'll be able to blame it on George Floyd.

I think it'll be the public's fault for not using their common sense while Staying Alert.

Squeegee Beckenheim 2nd June 2020 03:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulf Nereng (Post 13110614)
But that raises the question why they would worry about the current international situation. If it's all about a UK investigation into a UK problem, then surely no foreigners could become upset about it?

It's called "an excuse".

I look at it this way - they're saying that racial tensions are high ATM and, as such, they don't want to fan the flames. On the face of it that seems reasonable.

But think about it. If the report is good, then that's something they can bring out and say "well, at least something is going right". If it's bad, then they can bring it out and say "these are our failings, and these are the steps that we have been and are taking to correct them".

The Don 2nd June 2020 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulf Nereng (Post 13110614)
But that raises the question why they would worry about the current international situation. If it's all about a UK investigation into a UK problem, then surely no foreigners could become upset about it?

I think you've got it the wrong way around. :confused:

The UK government are likely worried that the UK's BAME population are already upset about George Floyd's death - there have been protests in the UK and institutional racism in the police and criminal justice systems is pretty bad (though nowhere near US levels).

A report which shows that BAME people in the UK are dying at disproportionate levels from Coronavirus and that the reasons for this have been exacerbated by the government's Austerity programme and/or its complete mishandling of Covid-19 will reinforce the view that the BAME communities are disadvantaged by institutional racism.

When we have economic downturns in the UK we seem to end up with riots. The weather is hot, the economy is in bits it wouldn't take much for a report which shows that government policy and/or inactivity has caused thousands of unnecessary deaths in the BAME communities to be the spark that triggers more riots.

Mid 2nd June 2020 03:56 AM

The UK Statistical Authority aren't (quite rightly) happy with the Government's Covid stats and have written a letter to Hancock about it (extract below).

"Thank you for your letter of 27 May, in which you described some welcome, though limited, additions to the official data on COVID-19 tests, including a proposed note on methods (not yet published at the time of writing). I am afraid though that the figures are still far from complete and comprehensible.

Statistics on testing perhaps serve two main purposes.

The first is to help us understand the epidemic, alongside the ONS survey, showing us how many people are infected, or not, and their relevant characteristics.

The second purpose is to help manage the test programme, to ensure there are enough tests, that they are carried out or sent where they are needed and that they are being used as effectively as possible. The data should tell the public how effectively the testing programme is being managed.

The way the data are analysed and presented currently gives them limited value for the first purpose. The aim seems to be to show the largest possible number of tests, even at the expense of understanding. It is also hard to believe the statistics work to support the testing programme itself. The statistics and analysis serve neither purpose well."

https://www.statisticsauthority.gov....-testing-data/

The Don 2nd June 2020 04:06 AM

False appeal to authority from a Welsh Tory wanting the 5 mile guideline removed:

Quote:

Ms Crosbie said: "As a former scientist, I appreciate just how much the evidence needs to inform decision-making, especially at such a crucial time for people's health in Wales.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-52890758

Her Wikipedia biography:

Quote:

Crosbie was born in Maldon, Essex, and grew up in the village of Tiptree, where her mother worked at the Tiptree Jam Factory.[1] She attended Colchester County High School. As a teenager, she worked as a dolphin trainer at the Woburn Safari Park for Terry Nutkins's BBC children's television series Animal Magic. She studied microbiology at Queen Mary University of London before completing a diploma in management studies at the University of Westminster. After graduating, Crosbie worked for Glaxo Wellcome before becoming a pharmaceutical analyst at the bank UBS. She became a director at UBS and later at HSBC. She then retrained, and became a mathematics teacher.
My reading of this is that she doesn't even have an undergraduate degree in a scientific subject - she studied microbiology at one university and then graduated with a management diploma from another. I think that's stretching the definition of "scientist" a little too far.

Heck, I'm more of a scientist than she claims to be. At least I'm a BSc Hons Physics.

Captain_Swoop 2nd June 2020 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13110607)
Thought they were both generally in favour of making it as difficult as possible for filthy foreigners to come over here as possible ? :confused:

Heck, that was one of the key reasons why they were so in favour of Brexit (despite it being an act of national self-harm :mad:).

Maybe but the quarantine will stop their readers returning from Spain and Greece from going straight home after their hols.

Squeegee Beckenheim 2nd June 2020 05:31 AM

Rees-Mogg is implementing a new in-person parliamentary voting system which would prevent many MPs from voting

Captain_Swoop 2nd June 2020 05:42 AM

Photo f the queue system Rees Mogg is putting in place to cope with a 'socially distanced lobby'

https://twitter.com/JeffSmithetc/sta...47799984222208

If all the MPs turn up for a vote the queue will be about a k in length.

The Don 2nd June 2020 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13110019)
BAME review delayed again due to 'proximity' to US race riots over George Floyd's death

It's been released and shown to be a shoddy piece of work - quelle surprise :rolleyes:

Quote:

Public Health England has released its report looking at why people from ethnic minority backgrounds are "disproportionately" dying with coronavirus.

It shows age remains the biggest risk factor. Being male is another.

But if you strip out age and sex, people of Bangladeshi ethnicity have twice the risk of death than people of white British ethnicity.

The risk is higher for other Asian, Caribbean and black ethnicities too.

But it remains unclear why.

The analysis on ethnicity and risk did not consider a person's occupation or obesity, even though both are known risk factors for getting seriously ill with coronavirus.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52889106

Nevertheless, the government are pleased with it:

Quote:

Health Secretary Matt Hancock told the House of Commons the report was timely work.
It may have been timely, it just doesn't seem to be particularly useful. A study which fails to assess some of the main risk factors and comes to the conclusion that we don't know why UK BAME residents are suffering and dying disproportionately hasn't really fulfilled its brief IMO.

Of course from the government's perspective it's mission accomplished. They said there would be a report and a report there is. :rolleyes:

Kinda like the theoretical capacity to carry out 200,000 tests when just over half (or a quarter depending on how the stats are being collected) are actually being done. Heck, the fact that I once bought a lottery ticket* means that I have the capacity to become a millionaire.


* - actually I never have, it was included for rhetorical effect

Captain_Swoop 2nd June 2020 09:25 AM

This is the 12th consecutive day the number of people tested is unavailable.

The Don 2nd June 2020 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13110945)
This is the 12th consecutive day the number of people tested is unavailable.

Rather like the tracking system, I'm sure testing is another one of those nice-to-have cherries on top when it comes to releasing the lockdown. :rolleyes:

Lothian 2nd June 2020 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13110945)
This is the 12th consecutive day the number of people tested is unavailable.

Have the ever given the number of people tested?

We have been told the number of tests done, tests sent out, capacity for the number of tests. I didn't think we have ever been given the number of people tested.

The Don 2nd June 2020 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lothian (Post 13111014)
Have the ever given the number of people tested?

We have been told the number of tests done, tests sent out, capacity for the number of tests. I didn't think we have ever been given the number of people tested.

Of course not, people would be shocked at how low it is given the professed ability to conduct 200,000 tests a day - which most people would erroneously assume means the ability to test 200,000 people a day.

The Don 2nd June 2020 10:56 AM

Interestingly, these figures provide the number of people tested for Pillar 1. Around 2/3 of the number of tests conducted.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavi...for-the-public

Captain_Swoop 2nd June 2020 01:09 PM

Anybody think Mr Speaker Bercow would have allowed today's farce?

Planigale 2nd June 2020 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13110803)
It's been released and shown to be a shoddy piece of work - quelle surprise :rolleyes:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52889106

Nevertheless, the government are pleased with it:



It may have been timely, it just doesn't seem to be particularly useful. A study which fails to assess some of the main risk factors and comes to the conclusion that we don't know why UK BAME residents are suffering and dying disproportionately hasn't really fulfilled its brief IMO.

Of course from the government's perspective it's mission accomplished. They said there would be a report and a report there is. :rolleyes:

Kinda like the theoretical capacity to carry out 200,000 tests when just over half (or a quarter depending on how the stats are being collected) are actually being done. Heck, the fact that I once bought a lottery ticket* means that I have the capacity to become a millionaire.


* - actually I never have, it was included for rhetorical effect

This report is inaccurate. The PHE report does include occupation.
https://assets.publishing.service.go...ies_review.pdf

It may surprise you but when one is dealing with a critically ill patient with a deadly transmissible infectious disease weighing and heighting them is not a priority. Assessing obesity as a risk factor is not that easy in a retrospective study. Whilst there will be population figures from e.g. census data for population
age, ethnicity, sex, the census does not include obesity. To look at obesity really needs a prospective study.

Captain_Swoop 2nd June 2020 04:08 PM

All the papers jumping for joy that the quarantine has been scrapped so we can all go off on our summer holidays.

Captain_Swoop 2nd June 2020 04:42 PM

Nigel Farage Tweeted

@Nigel_Farage
Quite right. Why are we being forced to use metric? This country uses yards and miles.
Quote Tweet

Quentin Letts
@thequentinletts
Some say that 400 MPs may have to queue 'almost a kilometre' in order to vote. Why not say 'half a mile'? It's more concise and more accurate.

Ulf Nereng 2nd June 2020 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13111430)
Nigel Farage Tweeted

@Nigel_Farage
Quite right. Why are we being forced to use metric? This country uses yards and miles.
Quote Tweet

Quentin Letts
@thequentinletts
Some say that 400 MPs may have to queue 'almost a kilometre' in order to vote. Why not say 'half a mile'? It's more concise and more accurate.

Is it okay to give Farage a nickname? If so I'd like to suggest Scrooloose. Nigel Scrooloose Farage.

Squeegee Beckenheim 3rd June 2020 01:38 AM

Boris Johnson has reportedly decided that it's time he started acting like he was in charge

P.J. Denyer 3rd June 2020 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13110518)
Of course :rolleyes:

I suppose it's not quite as bad as "We cannot release the results of the enquiry into Event A because it's still too close and we don't want to upset the families" followed some time later by "There's no point releasing the results of the enquiry into Event A because too much has changed and it's no longer relevant". :mad:



Probably, so it'll be put in the same filing cabinet alongside the report into Russian interference in the Brexit campaign and another set of "Beware of the leopard" signs will need to be printed.

Anyway it'll all be alright because the BAME community is renowned for their sunny disposition (as well as their dazzling smiles and great sense of rhythm) so they won't mind waiting a while. :rolleyes:

I think the official government term is "watermelon" rather than "dazzling".

Squeegee Beckenheim 3rd June 2020 01:49 AM

Channel 4's Dispatches reported that the Italian Health Minister was told by the Italian Prime Minister that Johnson had said his strategy was to go for herd immunity

The article from which there is a screenshot in that tweet claims that Johnson said that on the 13th of March, but from the actual quote it's unclear whether the conversation with Johnson was on the 13th, or whether the conversation the Health Minister had with the Prime Minister was on the 13th. It seems probable to me from the rest of the quote that the conversation with Johnson was from before the lockdown.

The Don 3rd June 2020 01:51 AM

FTFY ;)

Squeegee Beckenheim 3rd June 2020 01:55 AM

Health Minister Edward Argar has said that it doesn't matter how many people are being tested, and that he doesn't know how many people are going through the track & trace programme


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