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-   -   Covid-19 and Politics (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=342577)

McHrozni 12th June 2020 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheetah (Post 13122923)
Airlines are going out of business. Airports are packed with grounded planes. There must be many seats available, each with a screen and little desk.
I say turn them into classrooms!
:D

Not an outrageous proposal, but one that is only available in a very narrow array of locations.

McHrozni

The Don 12th June 2020 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McHrozni (Post 13122919)
It could also be incompetence at work. The government doesn't have any answers so it asks the principals to provide those for them. Pretend like those answers are easy and don't require Whitehall and at least some of the electorate will beleive you.

It's been Boris Johnson's default approach for years, announce some kind of grand plan and they immediately make the actual planning and delivery of that plan other people's problem.

He recently announced grand plans for the UK's economic recovery to much fanfare in the press. His plan ? To ask ministers to come up with ideas for the UK's economic recovery. Ideas were not forthcoming but then that means that it's the ministers' fault for not coming up with some magic ideas, not his fault that he had a grand announcement with no idea about how it would be delivered.

Squeegee Beckenheim 12th June 2020 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McHrozni (Post 13120412)
The kids who get to watch the video feed need not be in an actual school building. Any room that can house 12 students behind desks and a screen with internet connection can be used. If push comes to shove this can include buses.

As I said - that's all already being done, absent social distancing.

Quote:

Solutions to the problem exist, I named a few.
Yes, but since your solutions to the problem require the magical acquisition of both space and money, they're problematic.

Solutions are easy to pull out of your bumhole. Viable solutions are not quite so easy.

Squeegee Beckenheim 12th June 2020 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo (Post 13120485)

Wonderful. So not only have we had one of the worst responses in the world in terms of public health, but we've had one of the worst responses in the world in terms of our economy. Well done, Boris.

Squeegee Beckenheim 12th June 2020 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13121721)
The UK government is reconsidering the contact tracing application:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-52995881

Oh well, the app which was previously a vital component of the Track and Trace system which was itself a key element of the UK reducing its alert level and reducing the lockdown restrictions is not just the cherry on top of a system which ministers refuse to give any statistics about and in any case the government is lifting lockdown restrictions well in advance of the conditions they had previously claimed were prerequisites and pretty much ignoring the science.

If it wasn't for the fact that Dido Harding and her chums stand to make a pretty penny out of it, I'm sure they'd have just knocked it on the head. Instead this white elephant will lurch along to its inevitable, expensive failure..........

Didn't they say about a month ago that they were switching to the Apple/google API? Now there's another delay while they consider switching to the Apple/google API?

catsmate 12th June 2020 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer (Post 13122618)
Cool.

Say, you guys fancy a road trip?

We still have a 20km travel limit....

The Don 12th June 2020 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim (Post 13122958)
Didn't they say about a month ago that they were switching to the Apple/google API? Now there's another delay while they consider switching to the Apple/google API?

That's about the size of it.

Of course the primary concern is to ensure that Dido Harding and her friends get their payday and so I guess it takes a while to determine what the impact of switching to the Apple/google API will have on that ;)

The Don 12th June 2020 03:53 AM

Not all of the UK is incompetent. Take Guernsey for example:

Quote:

Two days after the UK entered lockdown, the Crown Dependency of Guernsey followed suit. The Channel Island has now seen no coronavirus cases for 42 days, a success public health authorities attribute to its test and trace programme.

Guernsey's 63,000 residents are able to go to the pub, get a haircut and meet up with friends and family. And on 20 June, the government will remove nearly all lockdown restrictions. So how did they manage it?

Currently, everyone who enters a "controlled environment", like a pub, restaurant or hairdressers, must leave their name and contact details - which are available at all times for the island's Public Health Services to access.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/worl...ost_type=share

Almost certainly not a scalable solution but it shows that effective tracking and tracing is a way to tackle Coronavirus.

zooterkin 12th June 2020 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim (Post 13122953)
Wonderful. So not only have we had one of the worst responses in the world in terms of public health, but we've had one of the worst responses in the world in terms of our economy. Well done, Boris.

Well, at least it won't be due to Brexit.

Squeegee Beckenheim 12th June 2020 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zooterkin (Post 13123008)
Well, at least it won't be due to Brexit.

Nope. That'll just pile on top.

Darat 12th June 2020 10:09 AM

Apparently R is at 1 so we should be seeing lockdown reimposed in 3, 2, 1 .... or perhaps not..

The Don 12th June 2020 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13123270)
Apparently R is at 1 so we should be seeing lockdown reimposed in 3, 2, 1 .... or perhaps not..

Rather like a working track and trace system, an R-number of less than 1 is just a cherry on top when it comes down to relaxing lockdown in England.

Here in Wales, our R-number is lower, maybe because we've been more cautious lifting lockdown.

P.J. Denyer 12th June 2020 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13123371)
Rather like a working track and trace system, an R-number of less than 1 is just a cherry on top when it comes down to relaxing lockdown in England.

Here in Wales, our R-number is lower, maybe because we've been more cautious lifting lockdown.

Maybe it's that whole thing about planning first, then making announcements. You're lucky to have a layer of government between you and these absolute ******* *******.

The Don 12th June 2020 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer (Post 13123448)
Maybe it's that whole thing about planning first, then making announcements. You're lucky to have a layer of government between you and these absolute ******* wankers.

Scotland is doing better, as are Wales, Norn Iron, Wales, the Isle of Man, the Channel Islands.

Pretty much everywhere but England :(

P.J. Denyer 12th June 2020 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13123453)
Scotland is doing better, as are Wales, Norn Iron, Wales, the Isle of Man, the Channel Islands, virtually everywhere else in the rest of the world.

Pretty much everywhere but England :(

FTFY

Captain_Swoop 12th June 2020 03:05 PM

Chief nurse @CNOEngland was dropped from No.10 coronavirus briefings after refusing to back Dominic Cummings.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9562741.html

jimbob 13th June 2020 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13121695)
And so it has started. Blame the scientists

John redwood: "The scientists advising the government chose the date for lock down. Why has one of them now said that was wrong?"

And the thing is, that it was in the public domain well before the lockdown:

This is a tweet of mine from March 12th (the day after Italy's lockdown) pointing out that if we were following a similar track to Wuhan a week's delay would account for 66% of cases.

https://twitter.com/ParkinJim/status...65380012240897

We were following the same 35% per day increase so it's reasonable to assume that if we had locked down 14 days earlier, so a day after Italy showed the way, we'd have had about 10% of the cases we have had, (33% of 33%).

Or as I said on March 11th in a discussion with an epidemiologist who had been arguing for earlier lockdown for some time by then.

https://twitter.com/ParkinJim/status...06717167120384

Quote:

9/n Italy is our future. The UK is a time traveller version of Italy - able to go back in time 10 days & change its path.

Squeegee Beckenheim 13th June 2020 11:14 AM

This article is a devastating retrospective on the measures the government took - or did not take - to contain the virus.

P.J. Denyer 13th June 2020 04:02 PM

Quote:

No one was sorry for anything because no living thing had done anything wrong; bad things had happened by spontaneous generation in some weird, chilly, geometrical otherworld and were to be regretted.*
I happened across this wonderful turn of phrase while rereading Terry Pratchett's "Going Postal" seems painfully apt. I think it may appear verbatim when a report into this government'S response to corona virus is released, which will probably occur between Boris Johnson's retirement to somewhere with no tax and lots of women in bikinis, and the heat death of the universe. And will be followed by release of the Russia report. I wonder if Johnson, Gove and Cummings originated in the Dungeon Dimensions?

Quote:

*Another bastard phrase that'd sell itself to any weasel in a tight corner

Captain_Swoop 14th June 2020 07:21 AM

Boris Tweeted

I was delighted to meet those working at Westfield shopping centre, Stratford, where I saw adjustments being made to ensure customers can shop safely.
This week, as shops start reopening in England, remember to follow social distancing rules to protect yourself and others.

The Don 14th June 2020 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13124942)
Boris Tweeted

I was delighted to meet those working at Westfield shopping centre, Stratford, where I saw adjustments being made to ensure customers can shop safely.
This week, as shops start reopening in England, remember to follow social distancing rules to protect yourself and others.

In other words.....

If you catch Coronavirus, it's not the government's fault for releasing lockdown restrictions recklessly early, it's business' fault for not taking adequate precautions and your fault for being insufficiently alert.:mad:

P.J. Denyer 14th June 2020 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13124955)
In other words.....

If you catch Coronavirus, it's not the government's fault for releasing lockdown restrictions recklessly early, it's business' fault for not taking adequate precautions and your fault for being insufficiently alert.:mad:

And don't forget to spend all that money you don't have...

Mojo 14th June 2020 01:57 PM

Apparently R has fallen, so the distancing rule is going to be relaxed to get it back up again.

The Don 14th June 2020 02:10 PM

If there's any doubt as to why the UK lockdown hasn't been particularly effective, this BBC report of a 6,000 person illegal rave near Manchester may be a clue.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...ester-53040827

Captain_Swoop 14th June 2020 03:32 PM

All the money, time and effort expended by all those shops to cater for the 2m rule. ALl the signs, markers, barriers etc and now Boris is going to scrap the rule.

What a shambles.

zooterkin 15th June 2020 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13125318)
All the money, time and effort expended by all those shops to cater for the 2m rule. ALl the signs, markers, barriers etc and now Boris is going to scrap the rule.

What a shambles.

It certainly is a shambles, but I’m not sure what you’re saying. Shops are opening today; the 2m rule is not likely to be changed before July 4th, when hospitality may be re-opening. Who knows what the numbers will look like by then. He’s also not likely to scrap the rule, but change it to a smaller distance.

Squeegee Beckenheim 15th June 2020 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13125259)
If there's any doubt as to why the UK lockdown hasn't been particularly effective, this BBC report of a 6,000 person illegal rave near Manchester may be a clue.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...ester-53040827

Perhaps they were just testing their hearing?

The Don 15th June 2020 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zooterkin (Post 13125602)
It certainly is a shambles, but I’m not sure what you’re saying. Shops are opening today; the 2m rule is not likely to be changed before July 4th, when hospitality may be re-opening. Who knows what the numbers will look like by then. He’s also not likely to scrap the rule, but change it to a smaller distance.

Who knows what decisions the government are going to make. They seem to have abandoned even pretending that science has anything to do with the decision making process and have instead moved it to an economic/political/public opinion based method.

They also seem desperate for positive headlines and a big splash about lifting social distancing restrictions would provide that so I wouldn't be shocked if announcements were made, effective immediately.

A very bold move would be to sit down and just tell the country that the government believes that the English populace are sensible and it's up to them to be vigilant and so all official rules will be removed and instead it's up to each individual to manage their risk. That's certainly what the right of the Conservative Party is pushing for.

Captain_Swoop 15th June 2020 01:44 AM

Reports of Tory MPs concerned that Boris Johnson “no longer seems interested” in Coronavirus and that it has fallen down his list of priorities for his briefings.

Also now confirmed that Johnson has not attended a COBRA meeting on the virus in over a month.

Mojo 15th June 2020 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13125632)
Reports of Tory MPs concerned that Boris Johnson “no longer seems interested” in Coronavirus and that it has fallen down his list of priorities for his briefings.

Also now confirmed that Johnson has not attended a COBRA meeting on the virus in over a month.


Links?

ETA: OK, I’ve found one for the COBRA meetings: https://www.theguardian.com/politics...r-over-a-month

The Don 15th June 2020 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13125632)
Reports of Tory MPs concerned that Boris Johnson “no longer seems interested” in Coronavirus and that it has fallen down his list of priorities for his briefings.

Also now confirmed that Johnson has not attended a COBRA meeting on the virus in over a month.

Sounds like Boris Johnson and President Trump share a lot of character traits in that regard. They really don't like hard work, they're easily distracted and they get bored about the same boring old thing.

It also seems like Tory MP concerns are as critical, and immediate as the concerns expressed by certain GOP senators......:rolleyes:

Dominic Cummings has brazened out his crisis, despite the alleged "concerns" of 40 or more Tory MPs. He is now free to lead the Conservative sheep wherever he likes, not least because (the fear of a lack of no-deal) Brexit can be used as a distraction to bring and straying Tory MPs back in line.

P.J. Denyer 15th June 2020 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim (Post 13125629)
Perhaps they were just testing their hearing?

They travelled for childcare reasons, they heard it takes a village to raise a child so they thought they'd better go to one. Perfectly reasonable common sense.

The Don 16th June 2020 03:27 AM

Upthread, it's already been posted that the UK economy is forecast to be one of the hardest hit by Coronavirus :(

Some more news stories on the BBC about this:

Job losses have been bad, but the worst is yet to come

Quote:

The number of workers on UK payrolls dived more than 600,000 between March and May, official figures suggest.

Meanwhile, the number of people claiming work-related benefits - which includes the unemployed - was up 126% to 2.8 million.

The early estimates reflect the impact of around six weeks of lockdown in which large parts of the UK were shut.

But economists say the full effect on employment will not be felt until wage support schemes end in October.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53060529

The Bank of England is going to try to cushion the UK economy from the worst - which is yet to come:

Quote:

Bank of England governor Andrew Bailey has said he will be "ready to take action" to help the UK economy weather the coronavirus crisis.

He was speaking after figures showed that the country's economy shrank by 20.4% in April - the largest monthly contraction on record - as the country spent its first full month in lockdown.

"We are still very much in the midst of this," Mr Bailey said.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53019360

The UK's unemployment rate could turn out to be worse than the US'

Quote:

The boss of the UK's largest recruitment firm, Reed, has said he fears current trends suggest far more people are going to lose their jobs because of the coronavirus crisis.

James Reed predicted the unemployment rate could reach 15%, meaning five million people could be out of work.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52932962

Given how much of the UK economy is service sector, and how much of that is dependent somewhat or entirely on discretionary spend, I fear that any recovery will be long, uncomfortable and incomplete and that low single digit unemployment rates will be a distant memory.

If 10% of people are out of work, we'll need a low fewer restaurants, bars, hairdressers, nail bars, interior decorators, artisan soap makers and so on...

Mojo 16th June 2020 05:30 AM

Quoted from another thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13126014)
The message today from our great Fuhrer? NOT about BLM, not a jot about the riots, the deaths, the care homes, Cummings, the ongoing PPE crisis, the fact he he is still running towards a No Deal cliff edge?
No, his message to the Nation today is Shop With Confidence.
It's our duty to go out and shop for Britain.


I wonder how many of the people queuing on Oxford Street yesterday managed to get there and back without making unnecessary journeys on public transport.

The Don 16th June 2020 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo (Post 13126811)
I wonder how many of the people queuing on Oxford Street yesterday managed to get there and back without making unnecessary journeys on public transport.

It's your patriotic duty to go out shopping, risk your life and buy **** you don't need :mad:

The Don 16th June 2020 09:21 AM

I see that now there's good news about an effective treatment, Boris Johnson has bothered to turn up for today's briefing. :rolleyes:

Darat 16th June 2020 09:59 AM

Johnson has shown great leadership and initiative today, carrying on “free school meals” during the summer holidays in England. Typically it was only him that recognised a need for such a policy.

Captain_Swoop 16th June 2020 09:59 AM

Another 233 deaths recorded in the UK today, good job a prominent politician didn't get overexcited at the weekend and imply it was nearly over.

Darat 16th June 2020 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13127147)
Another 233 deaths recorded in the UK today, good job a prominent politician didn't get overexcited at the weekend and imply it was nearly over.


Obviously they weren’t being alert. :(

Garrison 16th June 2020 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13127145)
Johnson has shown great leadership and initiative today, carrying on “free school meals” during the summer holidays in England. Typically it was only him that recognised a need for such a policy.

It really says something that a Premier League footballer had a better grasp on reality than the entire government.


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