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-   -   Senator Al Franken Kissed and Groped Me Without My Consent, And There’s Nothing Funny (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=324808)

Skeptic Ginger 18th January 2018 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTC8K6 (Post 12152317)
But then he seems to have been forced out of his job over it, so maybe we don't know the whole story?

His resignation still makes no sense at all to me. (unless I think "more to the story")

Yeah, Al Gore gave up too easily too. Sometimes people make stupid decisions with a little bit of rush to judgement social pressure.

I don't see why that should imply there is more too it when the evidence is so weak.

Skeptic Ginger 18th January 2018 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikemcc (Post 12152536)
It's a shame that he behaved so stupidly. He was eloquent and always made sure that he was clued up before he raised questions.

Which is why he was targeted by the GOP.

ahhell 19th January 2018 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 12152802)
Which is why he was targeted by the GOP.

Seems more like the dems targeted him to me.

Skeptic Ginger 20th January 2018 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahhell (Post 12153161)
Seems more like the dems targeted him to me.

They caved all too quickly, but otherwise, your CT has no legs.

The Big Dog 20th January 2018 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 12152802)
Which is why he was targeted by the GOP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 12154940)
They caved all too quickly, but otherwise, your CT has no legs.

As opposed to yours?

:rolleyes:

ahhell 21st January 2018 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 12154940)
They caved all too quickly, but otherwise, your CT has no legs.

Not a CT, he was pressured to resign by Dems, I don't remember there really being that much from the GOP beyond normal partisan advantage taking.

quadraginta 21st January 2018 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahhell (Post 12155349)
Not a CT, he was pressured to resign by Dems, I don't remember there really being that much from the GOP beyond normal partisan advantage taking.


This makes sense once you consider that normal partisan advantage taking for the GOP is more like a howling, slavering, torch-bearing mob for any normal human being.

Skeptic Ginger 21st January 2018 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahhell (Post 12155349)
Not a CT, he was pressured to resign by Dems, I don't remember there really being that much from the GOP beyond normal partisan advantage taking.

So you missed the part where Tweeden was asked to make a complaint she wasn't previously interesting in making by some Republicans pushing her to do so? Did you miss that she is very much a right winger? Do you think she would have spoken up if Franken was a Republican?

ahhell 21st January 2018 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 12155502)
So you missed the part where Tweeden was asked to make a complaint she wasn't previously interesting in making by some Republicans pushing her to do so? Did you miss that she is very much a right winger?

No, the only thing I can find in my brief internet search that backs this up is a tweet by Tom Arnold. I'm sure there's more out there though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 12155502)
Do you think she would have spoken up if Franken was a Republican?

No idea, but you can ask that question about any accusation against a politician. It could also be explained by the current wave of similar accusations. Is it true of the other women who have allegations against him?

theprestige 21st January 2018 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quadraginta (Post 12155499)
This makes sense once you consider that normal partisan advantage taking for the GOP is more like a howling, slavering, torch-bearing mob for any normal human being.

Except the GOP did none of that, with regard to Franken. The closest thing he got to a "howling, slavering, torch-bearing mob" were the Democrat Senators calling for his resignation.

theprestige 21st January 2018 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 12152800)
Yeah, Al Gore gave up too easily too.

Al Gore gave up too easily? Bush v. Gore went all the way to the Supreme Court. What was Gore supposed to do after that decision? Keep fighting?

Skeptic Ginger 21st January 2018 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahhell (Post 12155523)
No, the only thing I can find in my brief internet search that backs this up is a tweet by Tom Arnold. I'm sure there's more out there though....

You didn't look very hard then.

Tweeden has been on Hannity more than once and the story was leaked to Hannity and other right wing media like Breitbart before Tweeden made a public statement.

Her politics is no secret.

theprestige 21st January 2018 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 12155584)
You didn't look very hard then.

Tweeden has been on Hannity more than once and the story was leaked to Hannity and other right wing media like Breitbart before Tweeden made a public statement.

Her politics is no secret.

If she'd gone to the left for support, she would have been gaslighted, bought off, and covered up.

The Big Dog 21st January 2018 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12155609)
If she'd gone to the left for support, she would have been gaslighted, bought off, and covered up.

No doubt about it, she has been attacked nonstop by the left.

Proof: this thread

tyr_13 21st January 2018 05:11 PM

The 'left' forced him to resign. Any speculation about what they would have done has to take that into account, which means the previous two posts are blathering nonsense.

Once the 'right' starts doing similar then they'd have even moral footing to talk, but right now they're still supporting people they themselves believe assaulted teenage girls, which puts them far, far below the left on this issue.

thaiboxerken 21st January 2018 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12155609)
If she'd gone to the left for support, she would have been gaslighted, bought off, and covered up.

How does that fit in with your narrative that the Dems targeted Franken?

theprestige 22nd January 2018 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken (Post 12155905)
How does that fit in with your narrative that the Dems targeted Franken?

First, I don't buy conspiracy-theoretical narrative that the GOP targeted Franken. I'll reconsider if Skeptic Ginger or one of the other proponents of that theory can describe what things would have been done as part of the "targeting", and provide evidence that those things happened.

My theory about that is that she had a bone to pick with Franken over his treatment of her on the USO tour, that the post-Weinstein climate seemed like the right time to come forward, and that she found allies where she could.

But none of that is what got Franken railroaded out of office. Remember, the original plan was for him to submit to a pro forma ethics committee review, and then get back to work. And then, seemingly out of the blue, Franken's own party colleagues in the Senate turned on him and forced him to step down. That action by Democrats was the only "targeting" of Franken that actually happened.

thaiboxerken 22nd January 2018 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12156300)
First, I don't buy conspiracy-theoretical narrative that the GOP targeted Franken.

<snip>

Reality, however, disagrees with you.

Roger Stone tweeted that Al Franken would be next just 4 hours before Tweeden made her allegations.


Edited by Loss Leader:  Edited for Rules 0/12

ahhell 23rd January 2018 06:21 AM

Depends on what you mean by targeted I suppose.
Some dirt on him fell in to their hands and they took the opportunity, plausible even likely.
They went out looking for dirt on him because the really have thing for Franken, meh.

Why the dems folded on him so quickly, that's a more interesting question.

phiwum 23rd January 2018 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahhell (Post 12157477)
Depends on what you mean by targeted I suppose.
Some dirt on him fell in to their hands and they took the opportunity, plausible even likely.
They went out looking for dirt on him because the really have thing for Franken, meh.

Why the dems folded on him so quickly, that's a more interesting question.

The answer is simple. It was because of principles. The Democrats these days care about moral principles, even if they sacrifice an otherwise decent man.

I am sorry to say that the Republicans prefer to circle the wagons rather than exhibit moral convictions these days. It wasn't always like this.

The Big Dog 23rd January 2018 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phiwum (Post 12157777)
The answer is simple. It was because of principles. The Democrats these days care about moral principles, even if they sacrifice an otherwise decent man.

There is not enough irony to go around for this post.

wowsers....

ahhell 23rd January 2018 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phiwum (Post 12157777)
The answer is simple. It was because of principles. The Democrats these days care about moral principles, even if they sacrifice an otherwise decent man.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Dog (Post 12157799)
There is not enough irony to go around for this post.

wowsers....

Strikes more as naive than anything.

theprestige 23rd January 2018 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken (Post 12157156)
Roger Stone tweeted that Al Franken would be next just 4 hours before Tweeden made her allegations.

Which is not the same as the GOP targeting Franken.

Can you describe the GOP's targeting process as you understand it? Can you provide any evidence that that process was carried out?

Loss Leader 23rd January 2018 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Dog (Post 12157799)
There is not enough irony to go around for this post.

wowsers....


Donald

John

Trump


If he were a fifteenth the man Al Franken is, he would have resigned after the number of women accusing him started to exceed the starting roster of a basketball team.

phiwum 23rd January 2018 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahhell (Post 12157823)
Strikes more as naive than anything.

Feel free to explain.

theprestige 23rd January 2018 02:02 PM

I'm still hoping someone will expand on the idea that Gore gave up too easily.

bruto 23rd January 2018 02:10 PM

It seems possible that Franken's resignation could be the product of more than one thing at a time. I'm quite willing to allow the likelihood that the Republican party rejoiced at his downfall, and would have targeted him if they did not already, and also the likelihood that the Democratic leadership approached him in some way with the hope that he would resign, with or without leverage applied, with or without the realization of what a sitting duck he was for Republican backlash. But it's also likely the case that Franken is a loyal party man and that he took that path not from force but persuasion. After all, it's also probably the case that Franken's resignation was the best course of action, and one can credit him a little with the realization that it was so. All those possibilities are not mutually exclusive.

The Big Dog 23rd January 2018 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loss Leader (Post 12158044)
Donald

John

Trump


If he were a fifteenth the man Al Franken is, he would have resigned after the number of women accusing him started to exceed the starting roster of a basketball team.

Just blown away how many people are blowing smoke up Al's ass despite the fact he was a serial groper.

Foolmewunz 23rd January 2018 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Dog (Post 12158167)
Just blown away how many people are blowing smoke up Al's ass despite the fact he was a serial groper.

Yeah, and we used to refer to those guys as "mashers" or "wolves". The penalty for those acts is that people will yell at you and make you feel uncomfortable and if you don't change your ways, they will avoid you and you will be left to hookers and titty bars for your female company.

In no instance did anyone talk about jailing or career-destroying unless it suited an agenda. And that's what we have here, an agenda.

And I think you might want to define "blowing smoke up al's ass". He's had to resign. The people that matter, the party and his caucus members, did nothing short of blowing smoke up the ass of a segment of the progressive wing of the party. "I think you need to resign" is not a real good example of smoke-blowing.

It's like when you guys (conservative clones) spoke up about Roy Moore. Sure, he holds admirable political beliefs and would be a stalwart of good government, and bring baby jeebus back into the classroom and courtroom where he belongs, but he had some problems so the party had to move away from him en masse.

Oh, wait.....

thaiboxerken 23rd January 2018 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12157842)
Which is not the same as the GOP targeting Franken.

Can you describe the GOP's targeting process as you understand it? Can you provide any evidence that that process was carried out?

They aimed the gun and pulled the trigger. Tweeden came out for the sole purpose of taking him down.

TheGoldcountry 23rd January 2018 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Dog (Post 12158167)
Just blown away how many people are blowing smoke up Al's ass despite the fact he was a serial groper.

3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

ahhell 24th January 2018 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken (Post 12158546)
They aimed the gun and pulled the trigger. Tweeden came out for the sole purpose of taking him down.

This seems a bit like the Texas sharp shooter fallacy. The democrats being the barn and Franken being the bullet you've drawn the target around. The GOP and Fox are always looking for dirt on dems, they found some on Franken or it came to them. The Dems do the same for republicans.

If the GOP was going to target a particular dem, they'd go for one in a purple or red state, not Minnesota.

thaiboxerken 24th January 2018 06:25 AM

Nonsense. Al Franken was a thorn in the GOP's side, they hated how he grilled those idiots with difficult questions.

Pterodactyl 24th January 2018 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken (Post 12158852)
Nonsense. Al Franken was a thorn in the GOP's side, they hated how he grilled those idiots with difficult questions.

Sure. But any politician who gives the opponent ammunition is going to have it used against him. Franken made a big show of appearing ethical. Ultimately that was his final move too, which I think he should be commended for.

But, he alone is responsible for what he did.

The Big Dog 24th January 2018 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGoldcountry (Post 12158552)
3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

Bingo! All these people trying to excuse Franken's despicable conduct.

Super point

The Big Dog 24th January 2018 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken (Post 12158546)
They aimed the gun and pulled the trigger. Tweeden came out for the sole purpose of taking him down.

The friction from Al Franken's groping can't melt steel beams!

:D

The conspiracy section is that a-way

pgwenthold 26th January 2018 11:09 AM

Trump buddy and RNC Finance Chair Steve Wynn now being exposed (pun intended) for a pattern of sexual misconduct. Paid $7.5 in a settlement in one case.

I'm sure now the GOP will insist on a statement from Trump disavowing him and will insist that the RNC return all the money that he has donated and raised for the party, right? Like they did with Harvey Weinstein?

PS Le Reve at the Wynn Casino in Las Vegas is an absolutely amazing show, and probably the best show in the city, if not anywhere.

theprestige 26th January 2018 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken (Post 12158852)
Nonsense. Al Franken was a thorn in the GOP's side, they hated how he grilled those idiots with difficult questions.

But apparently he wasn't so valuable that his fellow Democrat Senators wanted to keep him around. Some of them admitted to forcing his resignation without even taking the time to think it over. You'd think a Senator who was actually making real contributions would merit at least a pause for thought before driving him out.

theprestige 26th January 2018 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgwenthold (Post 12161813)
Trump buddy and RNC Finance Chair Steve Wynn now being exposed (pun intended) for a pattern of sexual misconduct. Paid $7.5 in a settlement in one case.

I'm sure now the GOP will insist on a statement from Trump disavowing him and will insist that the RNC return all the money that he has donated and raised for the party, right? Like they did with Harvey Weinstein?

The GOP did that with Weinstein? Did they use the official GOP letterhead and everything? Or did it just come from the blue-checkmark GOP Twitter account?

plague311 26th January 2018 12:01 PM

I'd like to point out how entertaining it is to watch this thread continue. How long as Franken been gone? Yet, since it's the only possible option for any sort of moral high ground for the GOP, this horse has to been beaten so hard it's now just a puddle of hooves and teeth.

From an outside looking in, this is how both conversations look:

GOP folk: Dems ruined this guy, they made him resign, but also, he should have resigned. Watch as I come up with some other dumbass nickname for him like was done with Killary, shillary, Hildabeast, because that's what we really do well at! Schumer shutdown *wink wink*

Dems: Maybe the party jumped to conclusions too early. He should have had his day in court, but it's better to err on the side of caution. Why don't the GOP hold anyone, at all, under any circumstances, responsible including the POTUS?

GOP: OMG TU QUOQUE, TU QUOQUE

This thread is a testament to the patheticness of American partisan politics. It's sad to see this thread continue to exist, but it's a hoot reading through it. A train wreck at it's finest.


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