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-   -   Buying a TV while Black (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=344185)

shemp 19th May 2020 07:25 AM

Buying a TV while Black
 
4 white Missouri cops sued for alleged brutality on 68-year-old black woman and son in a Sam’s Club

Quote:

Four white police officers allegedly used excessive force on a 68-year-old black woman and her adult son after the son was wrongly accused of stealing a TV in a Missouri Sam’s Club, a new lawsuit claims.

Marvia Gray suffered “mental anguish” as well as injuries to her tailbone, back, shoulder, knees and arms when she was thrown to the ground and handcuffed March 23 inside the Des Peres store, the lawsuit filed Monday in St. Louis County alleges.

Her 43-year-old son, Derek, suffered a concussion, three shattered teeth and other injuries, the paperwork obtained by the Daily News states.
Quote:

At the Sam’s Club, Derek purchased a 65-inch Sony Bravia flat-screen TV for his mother, along with other items, Stroth said.

When they tried to load the massive TV in their 2018 Lexus SUV and realized it wouldn’t fit, they asked the store to hold it until Derek could retrieve it later.

A Des Peres Police officer in the store mistakenly thought he was stealing the TV when he returned later. The officer followed Derek to his SUV and voiced his suspicion before a store employee intervened and explained the TV was paid for, the lawsuit said.

Despite receiving this information, the officer still called the Des Peres Police Department and “falsely reported that he had ‘witnessed Gray steal a TV and place it in the parked vehicle,’” the lawsuit states.

When Derek reported the incident to his mom, they decided to return the TV due to the experience with the false allegations, the lawsuit states.

While the Grays were at the store seeking a refund, the four officers, including the one who made the emergency call, “violently and physically seized Marvia Gray and Derek Gray, throwing them to the floor, beating them, handcuffing them, then arresting them," the paperwork states.

theprestige 19th May 2020 07:32 AM

None of that makes any sense. I did like the product placement for Sony and Lexus, though.

SuburbanTurkey 19th May 2020 07:37 AM

Arrested for resisting arrest with no other actual crime alleged. The tell-tale sign of honest police work.

What crime could they have been investigating? The cops had already falsely accused the man of theft and been corrected by the store employees. Yet they become involved when the same man is back with the same TV attempting to get a refund in protest of their poor treatment.

Sounds like their real crime was "contempt of cop".

Side note, I've never seen cops on detail at a Costco. Sam's Club sounds like an awful place.

pgwenthold 19th May 2020 07:41 AM

Let me guess: the store employee who intervened was black?

Because why else would they not concede at that point?

Dave Rogers 19th May 2020 07:44 AM

I'd like to see this as racism, but apparently that's not allowed and we have to examine Marvia Grey's history until we find out that she ran a stop sign in 1978 and is therefore a clear and present danger to society.

Dave

Porkpie Hat 19th May 2020 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 13095251)
None of that makes any sense. I did like the product placement for Sony and Lexus, though.

How does it not make sense?

My ex and I bought a 60" (brand irrelevant) from Visions Electronics in Okotoks Alberta and when we couldn't get it to fit in her little SUV, we went and got my truck....the similarities end there since I'm a) white and b) not in America.

If you meant it makes no sense to be beaten for the reason of being human and doing human things while black, I agree.

theprestige 19th May 2020 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porkpie Hat (Post 13095274)
How does it not make sense?

A police officer patrolling a supermarket parking lot in Missouri and accusing a black man of stealing the TV he's putting into his car makes some sense, but that just might be my bias talking.

Returning the TV to the store, out of protest over the cop, when the store took your side, doesn't make a lot of sense to me. You've got the TV, why not keep it? "Every time I turn on that TV, I'll remember how badly you were treated in the Sam's Club parking lot. I can't enjoy it now. Better return it." I guess?

Four cops hanging out at the Sam's Club returns counter, waiting to throw a beating at the first black man to show up returning a TV, makes no sense at all. I assume the grievance claimed in the lawsuit is legitimate, but there seems to be a YUGE chunk of context missing from the story.

At least, that's the way it seems to me, as I read the story on my Apple® MacBook Pro™ 15", while sipping the Folger's® Classic Roast™ coffee I brewed in my Mr. Coffee® Optimal Brew™ 10-Cup Programmable Coffee Maker with Thermal Carafe from my Kleen Kanteen® HydroFlask™, over my Xfinity® Performance Starter+™ high-speed Internet connection.

sir drinks-a-lot 19th May 2020 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers (Post 13095271)
I'd like to see this as racism

'nuff said.

theprestige 19th May 2020 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers (Post 13095271)
I'd like to see this as racism, but apparently that's not allowed and we have to examine Marvia Grey's history until we find out that she ran a stop sign in 1978 and is therefore a clear and present danger to society.

Why would you like to see it as racism? Why wouldn't you want to at least get some context to what happened?

Why would you have any preference at all, as to explanation, other than that it be an accurate explanation?

I'd like to see this as a horrible misunderstanding, with everyone trying to do the right thing, and somehow ******* it all up horribly. But that doesn't seem very likely.

Of course really I'd like to not see this at all, but that ship has sailed. Something happened, and whether I like it or not some people were probably being complete douchebags here. Hopefully not everybody, but no matter what I don't see a likeable viewpoint at all.

The cops were being racist? I wouldn't like to see that.

The customers were being jerks somehow? I wouldn't like to see that, either.

It's all the store's fault? I wouldn't like to see that, either.

Why is wanting to see this as racism your first reaction to the story?

Brainster 19th May 2020 08:19 AM

It may simply be a case of stupid and racist cops, but I agree with TP on this one; there's something odd about the story here:

Quote:

A Des Peres Police officer in the store mistakenly thought he was stealing the TV when he returned later. The officer followed Derek to his SUV and voiced his suspicion before a store employee intervened and explained the TV was paid for, the lawsuit said.

Despite receiving this information, the officer still called the Des Peres Police Department and “falsely reported that he had ‘witnessed Gray steal a TV and place it in the parked vehicle,’” the lawsuit states.

When Derek reported the incident to his mom, they decided to return the TV due to the experience with the false allegations, the lawsuit states.
The second paragraph makes no sense at all. If the cop still believed that Gray had stolen the TV, would he let him leave? No, so maybe at some point the officer made the mistaken (not false) report, but eventually he decided that Gray had not stolen the TV or he would not have released him.

And why would they return the TV due to the experience with the false allegations? The store has apparently done nothing wrong--an employee even helped out by intervening with the cop.

SuburbanTurkey 19th May 2020 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 13095303)
A police officer patrolling a supermarket parking lot in Missouri and accusing a black man of stealing the TV he's putting into his car makes some sense, but that just might be my bias talking.

Returning the TV to the store, out of protest over the cop, when the store took your side, doesn't make a lot of sense to me. You've got the TV, why not keep it? "Every time I turn on that TV, I'll remember how badly you were treated in the Sam's Club parking lot. I can't enjoy it now. Better return it." I guess?

Four cops hanging out at the Sam's Club returns counter, waiting to throw a beating at the first black man to show up returning a TV, makes no sense at all. I assume the grievance claimed in the lawsuit is legitimate, but there seems to be a YUGE chunk of context missing from the story.

At least, that's the way it seems to me, as I read the story on my Apple® MacBook Pro™ 15", while sipping the Folger's® Classic Roast™ coffee I brewed in my Mr. Coffee® Optimal Brew™ 10-Cup Programmable Coffee Maker with Thermal Carafe from my Kleen Kanteen® HydroFlask™, over my Xfinity® Performance Starter+™ high-speed Internet connection.

It's common practice for stores to pay police officers to work as security.

if the store was paying these cops to work as security for the store, it seems fair to hold the store partially culpable for the bad behavior of the police. Returning an item because the store invites cops to hassle their customers seems like a reasonable way to complain.

Even if the police are not directly being paid by the store, if they are hanging out there, they do so tacit permission.

theprestige 19th May 2020 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13095332)
It's common practice for stores to pay police officers to work as security.

if the store was paying these cops to work as security for the store, it seems fair to hold the store partially culpable for the bad behavior of the police. Returning an item because the store invites cops to hassle their customers seems like a reasonable way to complain.

Even if the police are not directly being paid by the store, if they are hanging out there, they do so tacit permission.

Still doesn't make a lot of sense.

SuburbanTurkey 19th May 2020 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 13095350)
Still doesn't make a lot of sense.

Why is this store letting these dumb cops loiter around if they are causing problems with the paying customers?

Dude bought a gigantic TV. Probably spent some real money only to get heckled by some meathead cop. I'd return the TV and never go back to a store that allows this to happen.

Dave Rogers 19th May 2020 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 13095321)
Why would you like to see it as racism?

Because clearly the first seven words of my post were intended to be taken in a completely different sense to the remainder of it.

Dave

theprestige 19th May 2020 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13095358)
Why is this store letting these dumb cops loiter around if they are causing problems with the paying customers?

Exactly. It doesn't make sense that the store would do this. We're clearly missing an important part of the story. Specifically, the part that makes sense of what's been reported.

Quote:

Dude bought a gigantic TV. Probably spent some real money only to get heckled by some meathead cop. I'd return the TV and never go back to a store that allows this to happen.
Assuming the store allowed it to happen. Which doesn't make sense (and isn't quite what was reported anyway).

You're taking the story at face value and assuming it's complete. I'm saying that at face value, the story is incomplete and doesn't make sense.

I respect that you're trying to make sense of it, but I think that there's too much missing from the story for your efforts to have any hope of success.

theprestige 19th May 2020 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers (Post 13095368)
Because clearly the first seven words of my post were intended to be taken in a completely different sense to the remainder of it.

What is the sense in which we should take your post, then?

You believe it's racism, based on the information provided, but people are going to challenge you to support that belief and you resent the prospect?

Dave Rogers 19th May 2020 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 13095374)
What is the sense in which we should take your post, then?

Satire of the arguments and strawman positions typically proffered by racists when it's suggested that an incident might be racially motivated; firstly claim that the wimpy liberals want it to be racism, secondly attack the victim. Sorry if the sarcasm wasn't clear enough.

Dave

SuburbanTurkey 19th May 2020 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 13095371)
Exactly. It doesn't make sense that the store would do this. We're clearly missing an important part of the story. Specifically, the part that makes sense of what's been reported.


Assuming the store allowed it to happen. Which doesn't make sense (and isn't quite what was reported anyway).

You're taking the story at face value and assuming it's complete. I'm saying that at face value, the story is incomplete and doesn't make sense.

I respect that you're trying to make sense of it, but I think that there's too much missing from the story for your efforts to have any hope of success.

Might be a while. The injured family has sued, the cops have clammed up and denied everything.

Like I said earlier, the hallmark of a BS arrest and cops covering their ass is the arrest charge for "resisting" with no underlying crime to justify the arrest. That alone is enough to imply that the cops aren't being totally earnest here.

theprestige 19th May 2020 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers (Post 13095378)
Satire of the arguments and strawman positions typically proffered by racists when it's suggested that an incident might be racially motivated; firstly claim that the wimpy liberals want it to be racism, secondly attack the victim. Sorry if the sarcasm wasn't clear enough.

The hate is coming through loud and clear, at least.

ponderingturtle 19th May 2020 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brainster (Post 13095323)
It may simply be a case of stupid and racist cops, but I agree with TP on this one; there's something odd about the story here:



The second paragraph makes no sense at all. If the cop still believed that Gray had stolen the TV, would he let him leave? No, so maybe at some point the officer made the mistaken (not false) report, but eventually he decided that Gray had not stolen the TV or he would not have released him.

And why would they return the TV due to the experience with the false allegations? The store has apparently done nothing wrong--an employee even helped out by intervening with the cop.

Why would police arrest a guy hundreds of times for tresspassing while at work? That makes no sense clearly there must be some mysterious totally non racist explanation for everything in this case too.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...rently/385874/

lionking 19th May 2020 09:08 AM

The first thing that came to my mind is that a 65in TV couldn’t fit in a Lexus SUV? I was able to fit a 75in one in my smaller Subaru SUV.

But that’s the only thing that doesn’t make sense. Harassment and assault of blacks doing nothing wrong by police, is SOP in the US.

Dave Rogers 19th May 2020 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 13095385)
The hate is coming through loud and clear, at least.

I have no doubt you can hear exactly what you want to.

Dave

theprestige 19th May 2020 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lionking (Post 13095390)
But that’s the only thing that doesn’t make sense. Harassment and assault of blacks doing nothing wrong by police, is SOP in the US.

This attitude is every bit as bigoted as the attitude it condemns.

sir drinks-a-lot 19th May 2020 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lionking (Post 13095390)
The first thing that came to my mind is that a 65in TV couldn’t fit in a Lexus SUV? I was able to fit a 75in one in my smaller Subaru SUV.

That is surprising. I wonder what kind of car they brought on their second trip.

Quote:

Harassment and assault of blacks doing nothing wrong by police, is SOP in the US.
It really isn't. I don't know were you're getting your information from in Melbourne, but you may want to vet it a bit more.

ponderingturtle 19th May 2020 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot (Post 13095398)
It really isn't. I don't know were you're getting your information from in Melbourne, but you may want to vet it a bit more.

Yes I am sure these officers beat anyone who buys a TV, you pay for your TV in teeth there.

theprestige 19th May 2020 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers (Post 13095393)
I have no doubt you can hear exactly what you want to.

You're the one calling people racists, not me.

ponderingturtle 19th May 2020 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 13095423)
You're the one calling people racists, not me.

How many teeth do you get broken when buying a TV? Clearly being assaulted by the police while buying a TV is a common place and unlike say being pulled over racially neutral act by them. If it was a traffic stop we of course would be able to prove it was racism with simple statistics.

Dave Rogers 19th May 2020 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 13095423)
You're the one calling people racists, not me.

OK, you got me. I don't like racism. Sorry if that's somehow bad.

Dave

sir drinks-a-lot 19th May 2020 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle (Post 13095428)
How many teeth do you get broken when buying a TV?

I'd say the number of people who get any teeth broken when buying a tv is vanishingly small.

theprestige 19th May 2020 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers (Post 13095435)
OK, you got me. I don't like racism. Sorry if that's somehow bad.

Nothing wrong with not liking racism.

Gratuitously calling people racists is kind of bad, though.

Dave Rogers 19th May 2020 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 13095446)
Nothing wrong with not liking racism.

Gratuitously calling people racists is kind of bad, though.

I apologise to each and every person I named in my post as a racist.

Dave

theprestige 19th May 2020 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle (Post 13095428)
How many teeth do you get broken when buying a TV? Clearly being assaulted by the police while buying a TV is a common place and unlike say being pulled over racially neutral act by them. If it was a traffic stop we of course would be able to prove it was racism with simple statistics.

Haha oh wow. Did you even read the thread before posting? Nobody got assaulted while buying a TV.

Dave Rogers 19th May 2020 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 13095451)
Haha oh wow. Did you even read the thread before posting? Nobody got assaulted while buying a TV.

And getting assaulted while taking one back is much less serious, because it's easier to think someone's stealing a TV when they take it in to the store than when they take it out.

Dave

theprestige 19th May 2020 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers (Post 13095450)
I apologise to each and every person I named in my post as a racist.

Ah, now I'm picking up the sarcasm, too.

Is there any particular reason you feel that incivility is your best approach to this incident?

Jack by the hedge 19th May 2020 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 13095451)
Haha oh wow. Did you even read the thread before posting? Nobody got assaulted while buying a TV.

That depends on how you describe the overall purchasing process. In this case the customer hasn't even got his TV yet. Buying a TV can become an arduous process involving multiple store visits and multiple dentist visits before one can finally declare the TV bought.

SuburbanTurkey 19th May 2020 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 13095453)
Ah, now I'm picking up the sarcasm, too.

Is there any particular reason you feel that incivility is your best approach to this incident?

That's probably what TV guy said before the cops cracked 3 of his teeth.

theprestige 19th May 2020 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13095457)
That's probably what TV guy said before the cops cracked 3 of his teeth.

As tempting as it sometimes seems, I don't think it's fair to equate ponderingturtle's posts with a violent assault.

theprestige 19th May 2020 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge (Post 13095455)
That depends on how you describe the overall purchasing process. In this case the customer hasn't even got his TV yet. Buying a TV can become an arduous process involving multiple store visits and multiple dentist visits before one can finally declare the TV bought.

No matter how you describe the overall purchase process, an assault during the purchase process was exactly what did *not* happen in this case.

Thermal 19th May 2020 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13095457)
That's probably what TV guy said before the cops cracked 3 of his teeth.

And now he says "Ith there any particular reathon..."

Jack by the hedge 19th May 2020 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 13095472)
No matter how you describe the overall purchase process, an assault during the purchase process was exactly what did *not* happen in this case.

Ah. I misunderstood. I thought you meant the event in question did not take place during a purchase, but you meant the event was not an assault. Got it now.


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