International Skeptics Forum

International Skeptics Forum (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/forumindex.php)
-   Social Issues & Current Events (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=82)
-   -   Jeffrey Epstein arrested for child sex trafficking (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=337375)

JoeMorgue 8th July 2019 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggurat (Post 12748710)
I read through the indictment. What I can't tell from it is how it relates to his previous charges. In particular, is this a completely separate group of victims from the ones he was charge with abusing before? That would make sense, in terms of not having to deal with the previous plea or with double jeopardy, but the indictment itself makes no mention of the previous deal so there's still some ambiguity, at least for those who haven't closely followed this horror show.

As noted it's hard to keep the timeline straight here so to speak, but the statement from Geoffrey Berman, the Attorney General for the Southern District of New York where he says:

“Jeffrey Epstein entered into a non-prosecution agreement with the Southern District of Florida, that agreement only binds, by its terms, only binds the Southern District of Florida. The Southern District of New York is not bound by that agreement and is not a signatory to that agreement.”

... leads me to believe these are the same crimes, but a different jurisdiction moving forward with him. Epstein made a deal with Florida, not New York.

But this case is already shaping up to be an absolute nightmare quagmire of jurisdictions, timeframes, plea deals so... *shrugs* who the hell knows. I doubt even if the indictment is ever fully unsealed we'll get a full grasp on it.

JoeMorgue 8th July 2019 10:22 AM

Also I love how they have to point out that billionaire with a private jet and his own private Caribbean island might, just might, maybe a flight risk.

JoeMorgue 8th July 2019 10:59 AM

Epstein has plead not guilty. He will remain detained until at least 2 p.m Thursday when a full detention hearing is scheduled.

His attorney has characterized the new investigation as a "Do Over" of the Florida

carrps 8th July 2019 11:04 AM

I thought I heard there was something in the plea deal that the victims be kept in the loop on anything happening with the case. And apparently that wasn't done thereby invalidating the deal.

The Great Zaganza 8th July 2019 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carrps (Post 12748786)
I thought I heard there was something in the plea deal that the victims be kept in the loop on anything happening with the case. And apparently that wasn't done thereby invalidating the deal.

it should have invalidated the deal - but Barr declared that the DOJ will uphold the plea in spite of the violation.

This charge is about other things than those that are part of the previous plea deal.

JoeMorgue 8th July 2019 11:29 AM

Barr just announced he is recused from the case.

And apparently at least some of the cases are new, as new victims have come forth in the last 36 hours.

BrooklynBaby 8th July 2019 11:38 AM

Pelosi's daughter says some of their "faves" could be implicated in the Epstein case, so you guys are cruising the wrong side of the aisle as usual.

ponderingturtle 8th July 2019 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 12748672)
He's selective what he is foolish about. He has issues when he's accused of anything with women that suggests he had to force them to get it. I think that includes sex with teenyboppers.

Yea being able to resist him is something that earns a woman high praise, see his open letter to John Travolta and Kelly Preston on the death of their son.

"I have always respected people who were loyal and faithful--which brings to mind Kelly Preston. A long time ago, before I was married, I met Kelly Preston at a club and worked like hell to try and pick her up. She was beautiful, personable, and definitely had allure. At the time I had no idea she was married to John Travolta.

In any event, my track record on this subject has always been outstanding, but Kelly wouldnít give me the time of day. She was very nice, very elegant, but I didnít have a chance with her, and that was that."

President of the United States Donald Trump

https://web.archive.org/web/20100217...ly-preston.cfm

carlitos 8th July 2019 12:00 PM

Their son just died and they had to read that from the President? Gross.

Oh, I see that you truncated the quote and signed it "president" when it was written in 2010? Why would you do that? It's still completely inappropriate but he does actually give condolences.

Quote:

I have always respected people who were loyal and faithful--which brings to mind Kelly Preston. A long time ago, before I was married, I met Kelly Preston at a club and worked like hell to try and pick her up. She was beautiful, personable, and definitely had allure. At the time I had no idea she was married to John Travolta.

In any event, my track record on this subject has always been outstanding, but Kelly wouldn’t give me the time of day. She was very nice, very elegant, but I didn’t have a chance with her, and that was that.

When I later found out she was married to John, I liked and respected her even more. Some people have values that matter to them, and she is one of them. Her loyalty was unwavering and I have always remembered that about her.

Being true to someone is very close to being true to yourself. That’s a valuable attribute in today’s world. I’m sure she was a wonderful mother to Jett and my thoughts are with her and her family after their terrible loss.

Donald J. Trump is Chairman of Trump University.

Faydra 8th July 2019 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby (Post 12748831)
Pelosi's daughter says some of their "faves" could be implicated in the Epstein case, so you guys are cruising the wrong side of the aisle as usual.

What are you talking about? Anyone complicit in this needs to go to jail. If it were Obama himself, I'd say that.

Have sex with children, or facilitate having sex with children and you belong in jail.

JoeMorgue 8th July 2019 12:15 PM

I get a feeling the "Number of child rapes I'll still see as a positive because I'll get to neiner-neiner-neiner the otherside" stats for this thread are going to wind up being depressingly high.

Babbylonian 8th July 2019 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faydra (Post 12748853)
What are you talking about? Anyone complicit in this needs to go to jail. If it were Obama himself, I'd say that.

Have sex with children, or facilitate having sex with children and you belong in jail.

Indeed. Everyone involved, including those who participated in crafting Epstein's sweetheart deal, are villains.

JoeMorgue 8th July 2019 12:36 PM

Quote:

Some of the photos were discovered in a locked safe along with compact discs with hand-written labels that read, "Young [Name] + [Name]," "Misc nudes 1," and "Girl pics nude," according to the bail memorandum.
Yah know... I'm not a pedophi... oh I'm sorry Bob... I'm not a "Sparkling Kiddy Diddler" so I, thankfully, have a hard time putting myself into the headspace of one but... why would you label your child porn? Doesn't that seem a bit... well stupid?

I know I know... massive ego, never thought he'd get caught, thought he was untouchable, etc and so forth but still.

JoeMorgue 8th July 2019 12:38 PM

And it looks like the answer to "What changed, why is he being arrested now" has to do with investigations into Alexander Acosta and a recent Florida ruling that the Department of Justice broke the law by not confirming with Epstein's victims about the deal he got back in 2006.

So maybe the plea deal did get thrown out.

smartcooky 8th July 2019 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby (Post 12748831)
Pelosi's daughter says some of their "faves" could be implicated in the Epstein case, so you guys are cruising the wrong side of the aisle as usual.


I've yet to see anyone else here cruising any sides of any aisles.

You, on the other hand.....

Ziggurat 8th July 2019 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 12748891)
And it looks like the answer to "What changed, why is he being arrested now" has to do with investigations into Alexander Acosta and a recent Florida ruling that the Department of Justice broke the law by not confirming with Epstein's victims about the deal he got back in 2006.

So maybe the plea deal did get thrown out.

It may not ultimately matter. The kiddie porn they found is a brand new charge, he could easily get sentenced to the rest of his life in prison on that alone.

The Great Zaganza 8th July 2019 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 12748891)
And it looks like the answer to "What changed, why is he being arrested now" has to do with investigations into Alexander Acosta and a recent Florida ruling that the Department of Justice broke the law by not confirming with Epstein's victims about the deal he got back in 2006.

So maybe the plea deal did get thrown out.

Google "Barr Epstein" if you want to learn more.

not necessarily about the plea deal, but interesting nonetheless.

ponderingturtle 8th July 2019 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carlitos (Post 12748843)
Their son just died and they had to read that from the President? Gross.

Oh, I see that you truncated the quote and signed it "president" when it was written in 2010? Why would you do that? It's still completely inappropriate but he does actually give condolences.

Well the president and founder of Trump University where is was originally posted. And general forum rules are against posting an article like that in its entirety. But yes he does eventually make reference to their son who just died and not himself.

TragicMonkey 8th July 2019 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza (Post 12748900)
Google "Barr Epstein" if you want to learn more.

Or Google "Epstein Barr" if you want to really trace the sickness.

autumn1971 8th July 2019 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey (Post 12748929)
Or Google "Epstein Barr" if you want to really trace the sickness.

That would just be lazy

Sideroxylon 8th July 2019 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12747952)
???

You don't think Trump would tweet incontinently about whatever scandal he was embroiled in?

In which he was embroiled?

Yeah, doesnít have anything to do with him.
Katie Jís Testimony v. Donald J. Trump: Alleging he tied, beat, raped and threatened her with murder when she was 13 years old
https://vimeo.com/176181706

whatsthedreamnow 8th July 2019 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faydra (Post 12748020)
This will be interesting. The cesspool of Twitter is beside itself about who Epstein will bring down with him.

I don't care what political side they are on, if they are involved in this they should go to jail.

Thank you. I sure hope so. And not the "13 months with 6 days of weekly work release" type sentence.

Arcade22 8th July 2019 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carlitos (Post 12748680)
I'm going to avoid the pedantic discussion, but the Pizzagate people, like most satanic panic conspiracy theorists, believed that young children of both genders were being victimized. Not high school girls.

Not to mention that there's no suggestions whatsoever of any sinister satanic conspiracy. At most you have a rich guy who basically got away with a slap on the wrist only because he could afford expensive well connected attorneys and had friends in high places, something that would hardly be unprecedented and something shocking.

whatsthedreamnow 8th July 2019 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 12748889)
Yah know... I'm not a pedophi... oh I'm sorry Bob... I'm not a "Sparkling Kiddy Diddler" so I, thankfully, have a hard time putting myself into the headspace of one but... why would you label your child porn? Doesn't that seem a bit... well stupid?

I know I know... massive ego, never thought he'd get caught, thought he was untouchable, etc and so forth but still.

Well, he was caught, found guilty and effectively unpunished so yes I'm sure he felt untouchable.

bruto 8th July 2019 02:07 PM

According to what I heard today, the current charges are for events said to have happened in New York State, while the previous charge and plea deal applied only to crimes committed in Florida, so there's no double jeopardy. Part of the current indictment apparently involved a warranted search of his NY apartment, which turned up incriminating photographs.

I hope Trump is not stupid enough to pardon this one.

Arcade22 8th July 2019 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 12748889)
Yah know... I'm not a pedophi... oh I'm sorry Bob... I'm not a "Sparkling Kiddy Diddler" so I, thankfully, have a hard time putting myself into the headspace of one but... why would you label your child porn? Doesn't that seem a bit... well stupid?

Yeah if only he labelled it as something innocent sounding the cops wouldn't bother to look through it, even though he bothered to hide it in a safe of all places.

That's not say that he couldn't have done a better job hiding any illegal material, but considering the specific criminal allegations I'm sure they would have looked through any data storage devices they could find.

Skeptic Ginger 8th July 2019 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 12748891)
And it looks like the answer to "What changed, why is he being arrested now" has to do with investigations into Alexander Acosta and a recent Florida ruling that the Department of Justice broke the law by not confirming with Epstein's victims about the deal he got back in 2006.

So maybe the plea deal did get thrown out.

It appears though that Trump's DoJ is arguing in favor of the deal. I don't know who is appealing it.

Skeptic Ginger 8th July 2019 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruto (Post 12749004)
According to what I heard today, the current charges are for events said to have happened in New York State, while the previous charge and plea deal applied only to crimes committed in Florida, so there's no double jeopardy. Part of the current indictment apparently involved a warranted search of his NY apartment, which turned up incriminating photographs.

I hope Trump is not stupid enough to pardon this one.

If Trump loses the election, you can bet he'll pardon Epstein during his lame duck session.

carlitos 8th July 2019 02:25 PM

If this numbnuts had photos of underage girls in his New York apartment last Saturday, I don't even know what to say. Like - dude, you got off scot-free for this, maybe don't keep a bunch of evidence at your place? Be grateful, turn over a new leaf, that sort of thing?

Faydra 8th July 2019 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carlitos (Post 12749028)
If this numbnuts had photos of underage girls in his New York apartment last Saturday, I don't even know what to say. Like - dude, you got off scot-free for this, maybe don't keep a bunch of evidence at your place? Be grateful, turn over a new leaf, that sort of thing?

Probably thought he was untouchable.

Skeptic Ginger 8th July 2019 02:32 PM

This morning: Democracy Now: Jeffrey Epstein, a Billionaire Friend of Presidents Trump & Clinton, Arrested for Sex Trafficking
There's an interesting interview with one of the girls that describes what went on.
Quote:

VICKY WARD: If Alexander Acosta had let the FBI to continue with its investigation. But instead, there was this—that he had one meeting with Jay Lefkowitz, a member of Jeffrey Epstein’s powerhouse, massive sort of legal team, and he did the—you know, he later justified the plea deal that was cut, the nonprosecution agreement, that was significantly, by the way, not just helpful to Jeffrey Epstein, but helpful to four conspirators who had enabled him. He claimed later, “Well, you know, the women’s testimony might not have stood up. This was the best deal I could get.” But, in fact, we now know that he actually broke the law. You’re not allowed to cut a deal like that and not tell victims, who were cooperating with a separate FBI investigation, which is what happened. They were completely blindsided by this thing.

And finally, this year—and I have to say thank you to Julie Brown, the Miami Herald journalist, for highlighting the issue before Congress, and thank you to Ben Sasse, the Republican senator from Nebraska, for joining with 15 Democrats and going back to the Justice Department and saying, “What on Earth happened? This is a clear miscarriage of justice. Investigate it,” because I think it’s against that political climate of goodwill that you now have the FBI saying, “OK, let’s go back.”
I see now it was Congress that has challenged Acosta's actions. So that's how Trump's DoJ prosecutors are fighting it.

smartcooky 8th July 2019 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 12749016)
It appears though that Trump's DoJ is arguing in favor of the deal. I don't know who is appealing it.

That the DoJ would fight to keep this deal intact is unconscionable!

Not hard to guess who has a motive to drive this?

Sideroxylon 8th July 2019 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby (Post 12748831)
Pelosi's daughter says some of their "faves" could be implicated in the Epstein case, so you guys are cruising the wrong side of the aisle as usual.

If Bill Clinton and Trump are both implicated watch for the contrast in reactions. Only one of them will be backed by uncompromising support no matter what we learn about them.

portlandatheist 8th July 2019 03:45 PM

Let's hope he drags as many people down with him as possible, especially Alex Acosta

applecorped 8th July 2019 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 12749024)
If Trump loses the election, you can bet he'll pardon Epstein during his lame duck session.

No he won't, to either

applecorped 8th July 2019 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sideroxylon (Post 12749099)
If Bill Clinton and Trump are both implicated watch for the contrast in reactions. Only one of them will be backed by uncompromising support no matter what we learn about them.

already happening.......in this very thread

Sideroxylon 8th July 2019 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by applecorped (Post 12749105)
already happening.......in this very thread

Not yet. The information is just coming in now. A lot of Twitter is a pattern of:

Dem: Trump will be nervous
Rep: Bill Clinton sure had a lot of visits to Epsteinís place.
Dem: **** Clinton. **** all those pedo *****.

When the picture starts to solidify the Trump defence will begin in earnest and Clinton cut loose. (Assuming things are as actually as dodgy for this pair as already looks)

Babbylonian 8th July 2019 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carlitos (Post 12749028)
If this numbnuts had photos of underage girls in his New York apartment last Saturday, I don't even know what to say. Like - dude, you got off scot-free for this, maybe don't keep a bunch of evidence at your place? Be grateful, turn over a new leaf, that sort of thing?

The dude kept underage sex slaves and, allegedly, pimped them out to other rich and famous people. That kind of leaf is unlikely to be turned.

Sideroxylon 8th July 2019 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by applecorped (Post 12749103)
No he won't, to either

Since this is state and not federal he won’t be able to pardon anyone?

BobTheCoward 8th July 2019 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sideroxylon (Post 12749122)
Since this is state and not federal he wonít be able to pardon anyone?

I'm pretty sure these are federal.


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:52 PM.

Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2015-20, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.