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-   -   Jeffrey Epstein arrested for child sex trafficking (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=337375)

applecorped 9th July 2019 10:13 AM

"Some of the nude or partially-nude photographs appear to be of underage girls, including at least one girl who, according to her counsel, was underage at the time the relevant photographs were taken."

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/jef...-19/index.html

smartcooky 9th July 2019 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 12749450)
Have you thought that some people are not as partisan as you may think and will want to see anyone who has committed crimes that he has been accused off prosecuted, because it is simply wrong?

Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.

smartcooky 9th July 2019 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcade22 (Post 12749609)
Well lets just put it this way: if compulsive criminals actually could control their compulsions they wouldn't be compulsive criminals. It was not like as if he was accused of just a singular one-time offence.

Besides, I've not read any actual official statement that said images he was in possession of were illegal. The closest I've seen is this:



https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/08/n...n-charges.html

If the illegality of the images were obvious i would expect them to state that instead of merely making the allegation that they were proof of his "predatory attitude". Hell if possessing such images was evidence of being a sexual predator then just about everyone who has visited a online porn website would qualify as sexual predator, considering there's no shortage of images and videos of "teens".

It could very well be that said images are perfectly legal, regardless of what the prosecutor is seemingly implying.

To be fair, that is not all they say they found, and its not the only description.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/jeffre...hattan-mansion

"A raid on his Upper East Side residence, which is said to be worth $77 million, yielded “an extraordinary volume of photographs of nude and partially-nude young women or girls,”


Why say "young women or girls" unless you mean that the girls are possibly under age. If they are not under age, then "young women or girls" is a bit redundant.

Also

https://www.thedailybeast.com/jeffre...hattan-mansion
Already, distressing new details are surfacing in the case. Most notably, when Mr. Epstein’s Manhattan residence was searched over the weekend, according to a court filing from prosecutors, law enforcement officials recovered “hundreds — and perhaps thousands — of sexually suggestive photographs of fully- or partially-nude females,” some of which “appear to be of underage girls.”
This states pretty clearly that prosecutors believe some of these girls to be under age. If they are able to establish who they are, the rest will be a matter of arithmetic.

Trebuchet 9th July 2019 01:21 PM

And, as noted above, they have the identity of one of the girls in the photos, whose attorney says she was underage at the time.

Bogative 9th July 2019 02:38 PM

This is interesting if true:

Quote:

“Is the Epstein case going to cause a problem [for confirmation hearings]?” Acosta had been asked. Acosta had explained, breezily, apparently, that back in the day he’d had just one meeting on the Epstein case. He’d cut the non-prosecution deal with one of Epstein’s attorneys because he had “been told” to back off, that Epstein was above his pay grade. “I was told Epstein ‘belonged to intelligence’ and to leave it alone,” he told his interviewers in the Trump transition, who evidently thought that was a sufficient answer and went ahead and hired Acosta.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/jeffre...ght?ref=scroll

rdwight 9th July 2019 03:32 PM

People seem too giddy over this having the possibility of taking down their political foes as opposed to getting justice for the victims..

Puppycow 9th July 2019 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdwight (Post 12750221)
People seem too giddy over this having the possibility of taking down their political foes as opposed to getting justice for the victims..

This.

Puppycow 9th July 2019 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bogative (Post 12750181)

Told by whom?

wasapi 9th July 2019 04:59 PM

I wonder if they have any way to know how many victims there actually are over all of those years. It is staggering to imagine the numbers. Each victim has her own story, her own life.

Those women, those victims, told me about their experiences. A few, a hundred or so female survivors of these types of abuse formed a group they called SAGE. And, I worked at a Sexual Assault Crisis Center. We were called, a group of about 10 Crisis-workers volunteered to go to SAGE's dormitory living quarters.

I have never met women like these before or since. Many had an elegance, a type of natural beauty, some insanely gorgeous, and a sense of class. They had been surrounded by magnificent wealth, as they lived out their torture. AS they were abused, day and night. They also had a similar look in their eyes. These were strong, strong women.

And sometimes, they still needed to vent. They helped me more than I ever helped them.

Puppycow 9th July 2019 05:11 PM

About his accomplices (all women) who received immunity

https://www.thedailybeast.com/jeffre...off?ref=scroll

mgidm86 9th July 2019 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 12749318)
:rolleyes:
Weiner wasn't into sex parties on his jet, yacht, apartment and island. So how is sending your dick-pics to a couple underage girls anything whatsoever like Epstein?

And Lewinsky herself said she was a consenting adult.

You might want to think these things through a bit more before you post.

I didn't say he was like Epstein. Weiner is a perv who likes them too young. So is Epstein. And they have both been busted for it now. But other than that nothing at all alike! Perhaps if Weiner had a jet and a private island - oh but no I'm sure he'd be different. He's just a poor widdle small time child porn dude no biggie.

My point (and what I said) was that Clinton hangs out with pervs (two that we now know of) and also likes girls a lot younger than him. Nothing more.

Skeptic Ginger 9th July 2019 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgidm86 (Post 12750322)
I didn't say he was like Epstein. Weiner is a perv who likes them too young. So is Epstein. And they have both been busted for it now. But other than that nothing at all alike! Perhaps if Weiner had a jet and a private island - oh but no I'm sure he'd be different. He's just a poor widdle small time child porn dude no biggie.

My point (and what I said) was that Clinton hangs out with pervs (two that we now know of) and also likes girls a lot younger than him. Nothing more.

Neither Bill nor Hillary hung out with Weiner. Hillary and Weiner's ex-wife were/are close associates. Bill officiated at their wedding. Obviously they knew each other. But your implication Bill hung out with Weiner is stupid, meaningless.

BBaby is going on and on about his straw man that liberals are ecstatic this might implicate Trump.

No we aren't. But here you are trying to implicate Bill Clinton. (Reminder: Hillary is not POTUS and isn't running for POTUS.)

Bogative 9th July 2019 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puppycow (Post 12750286)
Told by whom?


Let's hope we find out.

I'd be curious to know if the state prosecutor, Barry Krischer, who only charged Epstein with soliciting a prostitute despite having the same evidence available that Acosta had, received the same message.

Sideroxylon 9th July 2019 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdwight (Post 12750221)
People seem too giddy over this having the possibility of taking down their political foes as opposed to getting justice for the victims..


People are fed up with wealthy white males getting away with everything - for many people this is a whole category of “political foe” they want to see brought down and receive justice.

Jeffrey Epstein is the ultimate symbol of plutocratic rot
[…]
Both sides are likely right. The Epstein case is first and foremost about the casual victimization of vulnerable girls. But it is also a political scandal, if not a partisan one. It reveals a deep corruption among mostly male elites across parties, and the way the very rich can often purchase impunity for even the most loathsome of crimes. If it were fiction, it would be both too sordid and too on-the-nose to be believable, like a season of “True Detective” penned by a doctrinaire Marxist.
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/j...-rot-1.3951258

Trump has been teflon to the numerous rape allegations against him due to his wealth and power. It is also very clear that Democrats are enthusiastic about anyone on “their side” going down if guilty, including Bill Clinton. Ironic too that Trump’s appeal to his supporter base taps into this same anger against the powerful elite.

“These decrees of yours are no different from spiders' webs. They'll restrain anyone weak and insignificant who gets caught in them, but they'll be torn to shreds by people with power and wealth.” - Anacharsis, 6th Century BC.

smartcooky 9th July 2019 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sideroxylon (Post 12750342)
Trump has been teflon to the numerous rape allegations against him due to his wealth and power. It is also very clear that Democrats are enthusiastic about anyone on “their side” going down if guilty, including Bill Clinton.


This.

Numerous historical rape allegations brought down Bill Cosby and Rolf Harris. Over 25 women have accused Trump of rape or sexual assault, that is more accusers than Cosby or Harris. How is it that Trump has managed to avoid the same axe?

This isn't about politics, its about justice for the victims. I wouldn't care if Trump was left, right or centre. If he really did these things, he should go down for it. If Bill Clinton was involved, he should be in for the chop too!

rdwight 9th July 2019 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sideroxylon (Post 12750342)
People are fed up with wealthy white males getting away with everything - for many people this is a whole category of “political foe” they want to see brought down and receive justice.[SNIP]..

Trump has been teflon to the numerous rape allegations against him due to his wealth and power. It is also very clear that Democrats are enthusiastic about anyone on “their side” going down if guilty, including Bill Clinton. Ironic too that Trump’s appeal to his supporter base taps into this same anger against the powerful elite.

And 'people' really includes everyone, especially when it involved underage victims. But if this thread is any indication, that is secondary to how it will impact political opponents. Look at how many comments involve Trump and Clinton.

Is there any indication from anything public about this case that they were at all involved? No. Just wishful speculation. I am just glad that those affected will hopefully get the justice they've been denied for so long. If others get swept in for their crimes in regards to this, even better. But I won't refocus this case in the way others here are, and I won't conflate other cases into this and lessen the impact of this one.

thaiboxerken 9th July 2019 07:55 PM

Looks like Barr has un-recused himself and is now inserting himself into Epstein's case. I'm sure Trump told Barr to do what it takes to protect Epstein, in order to protect Trump as well.

Skeptic Ginger 9th July 2019 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdwight (Post 12750401)
And 'people' really includes everyone, especially when it involved underage victims. But if this thread is any indication, that is secondary to how it will impact political opponents. Look at how many comments involve Trump and Clinton.

Is there any indication from anything public about this case that they were at all involved? ...

Well there is the fact that the AG who let him off a decade ago is now in Trump's inner circle, and, Trump is defending him. Then there's this:
Quote:

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken (Post 12750419)
Looks like Barr has un-recused himself and is now inserting himself into Epstein's case. I'm sure Trump told Barr to do what it takes to protect Epstein, in order to protect Trump as well.

And there is the fact Trump bought the Miss Teen Universe and it isn't clear if he walked into their dressing room(s) though we know he walked into the Miss Universe dressing rooms.

So I'm not sure I be so quick to dismiss Trump's involvement. Not saying the smoking gun is there. But no way is Trump in the clear.

I Am The Scum 9th July 2019 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 12750424)
Well there is the fact that the AG who let him off a decade ago is now in Trump's inner circle, and, Trump is defending him.

This. As much as I'd like to set politics aside and let justice run its course, I can't ignore the fact that one of the men in Trump's inner circle played an instrumental role in allowing a serial child rapist to walk. Of his own volition, Donald Trump has involved himself in this case. If he wanted to stay out of it, he made the wrong decisions. Criticism is warranted.

Sideroxylon 9th July 2019 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken (Post 12750419)
Looks like Barr has un-recused himself and is now inserting himself into Epstein's case. I'm sure Trump told Barr to do what it takes to protect Epstein, in order to protect Trump as well.

The swamp of wealthy elites has never been so overtly swampy. The disrespect for checks and balances or the people of America is overwhelming. Trump and his enablers are the worst of the self interested elites many of his supporters despised and sought a disempowerment of. All accountability is gone. The Dem leadership is simply banking on the next election result.

rdwight 9th July 2019 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 12750424)
Well there is the fact that the AG who let him off a decade ago is now in Trump's inner circle, and, Trump is defending him. Then there's this: And there is the fact Trump bought the Miss Teen Universe and it isn't clear if he walked into their dressing room(s) though we know he walked into the Miss Universe dressing rooms.

Yup. Good thing you didn't conflate things to make a political hit piece out of this. Glad to know I was off base..


Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 12750424)
So I'm not sure I be so quick to dismiss Trump's involvement. Not saying the smoking gun is there. But no way is Trump in the clear.

Yes, let's speculate. Definitely doesn't prove my point.


Quote:

Originally Posted by I Am The Scum (Post 12750440)
This. As much as I'd like to set politics aside and let justice run its course, I can't ignore the fact that one of the men in Trump's inner circle played an instrumental role in allowing a serial child rapist to walk. Of his own volition, Donald Trump has involved himself in this case. If he wanted to stay out of it, he made the wrong decisions. Criticism is warranted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sideroxylon (Post 12750456)
The swamp of wealthy elites has never been so overtly swampy. The disrespect for checks and balances or the people of America is overwhelming. Trump and his enablers are the worst of the self interested elites many of his supporters despised and sought a disempowerment of. All accountability is gone. The Dem leadership is simply banking on the next election result.

If justice had run it's course the first time, we wouldn't be in this situation. Please keep pressure on the process running better this time around. I will not argue on those grounds, and whoever get's swept up, the more the better. But you are again centering the case around Trump. In a case that there has literally been no indication he would be involved in.

As for Acosta, I hope all information about the formation of the original plea deal come to light. But I don't see the same backlash in regards to the executive position for that situation. To complain about the situation now, when charges have finally been refiled after all these years, is absurd to me.

Again, I appreciate any pressure put on in regards for getting justice for the victims. But way too many only care about that as a secondary motivation. And that includes many posters here. Smear and accuse political opponents first, anything else just seems a bonus.

Ziggurat 9th July 2019 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken (Post 12750419)
Looks like Barr has un-recused himself and is now inserting himself into Epstein's case.

Not exactly. Barr recused himself from any review of Acosta's deal, and that's still the case. He didn't recuse himself from any new proceedings, so there wasn't actually any un-recusal.

Skeptic Ginger 9th July 2019 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdwight (Post 12750466)
Yup. Good thing you didn't conflate things to make a political hit piece out of this. Glad to know I was off base..

Yes, let's speculate. Definitely doesn't prove my point.

So should we put you down for denial?

Conflate what? Trump and his sleazy grab them by the pussy, walk into a Miss Universe dressing room history with sleazy Epstein?

What the hell speculation is that?


Quote:

Originally Posted by rdwight (Post 12750466)
If justice had run it's course the first time, we wouldn't be in this situation. Please keep pressure on the process running better this time around. I will not argue on those grounds, and whoever get's swept up, the more the better. But you are again centering the case around Trump. In a case that there has literally been no indication he would be involved in.

As for Acosta, I hope all information about the formation of the original plea deal come to light. But I don't see the same backlash in regards to the executive position for that situation. To complain about the situation now, when charges have finally been refiled after all these years, is absurd to me.

Again, I appreciate any pressure put on in regards for getting justice for the victims. But way too many only care about that as a secondary motivation. And that includes many posters here. Smear and accuse political opponents first, anything else just seems a bonus.

Help me out here. What specifically are you complaining about?

We know Acosta helped Epstein get off. We know Trump et al vetted Acosta and appointed him to Trump's Cabinet.

Just what is it about those KNOWN FACTS do you think are being misinterpreted?

Sideroxylon 9th July 2019 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdwight (Post 12750466)
Yup. Good thing you didn't conflate things to make a political hit piece out of this. Glad to know I was off base..




Yes, let's speculate. Definitely doesn't prove my point.






If justice had run it's course the first time, we wouldn't be in this situation. Please keep pressure on the process running better this time around. I will not argue on those grounds, and whoever get's swept up, the more the better. But you are again centering the case around Trump. In a case that there has literally been no indication he would be involved in.

As for Acosta, I hope all information about the formation of the original plea deal come to light. But I don't see the same backlash in regards to the executive position for that situation. To complain about the situation now, when charges have finally been refiled after all these years, is absurd to me.

Again, I appreciate any pressure put on in regards for getting justice for the victims. But way too many only care about that as a secondary motivation. And that includes many posters here. Smear and accuse political opponents first, anything else just seems a bonus.

Yeah, no indication except for Katie Johnson’s testimony that Trump raped her at an Epstein party. There is also Trumps own declared friendship with Epstein as well as an acknowledgement of his taste in girls. Yeah, “literally no indication.” At the very least Trump had an idea of what was going on.

And as for people here centering speculation around Trump, who else is there? Bill
Clinton would major Democrat scandal and one that already has Trumplicans in a wary excitement. Prince Andrew has come up as has Trump/Epstein lawyer Alan Dershowitz. Trump as president is the biggest name with long connection to Epstein so quite rightly there is speculation. It will be interesting to watch this unfold and we can only hope the opportunity for justice wont be squandered again as Acosta did. Why hasn’t Trump fired him?

rdwight 9th July 2019 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 12750496)
Help me out here. What specifically are you complaining about?

Since I've literally said it, quit being obtuse and maybe read, on this same page, exactly what I am complaining about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 12750496)
We know Acosta helped Epstein get off. We know Trump et al vetted Acosta and appointed him to Trump's Cabinet.

Just what is it about those KNOWN FACTS do you think are being misinterpreted?

Again, I am quite clear exactly what my issue with how this thread has gone is. You seem hellbent on cementing my point.

rdwight 9th July 2019 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sideroxylon (Post 12750501)
Yeah, no indication except for Katie Johnson’s testimony that Trump raped her at an Epstein party. There is also Trumps own declared friendship with Epstein as well as an acknowledgement of his taste in girls. Yeah, “literally no indication.” At the very least Trump had an idea of what was going on.

So show me something, anything at all that recognizes Trump or Clinton as a target or suspect in regards to this case.


Quote:

And as for people here centering speculation around Trump, who else is there? Bill
Clinton would major Democrat scandal and one that already has Trumplicans in a wary excitement. Prince Andrew has come up as has Trump/Epstein lawyer Alan Dershowitz. Trump as president is the biggest name with long connection to Epstein so quite rightly there is speculation. It will be interesting to watch this unfold and we can only hope the opportunity for justice wont be squandered again as Acosta did. Why hasn’t Trump fired him?
Who knows, maybe the direction of the thread shouldn't be about what political opponents we can speculate might be taken down by this? Maybe center the discussion on, oh, I don't know.. Epstein? You know, like my original post directly points out?

Ziggurat 9th July 2019 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sideroxylon (Post 12750501)
Yeah, no indication except for Katie Johnson’s testimony that Trump raped her at an Epstein party.

I suspect she is not a witness in this current case. But we shall see.

Sideroxylon 9th July 2019 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggurat (Post 12750522)
I suspect she is not a witness in this current case. But we shall see.

Agree but if there is something to this accusation, other corroborating testimony or evidence could emerge.

Sideroxylon 9th July 2019 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdwight (Post 12750520)
So show me something, anything at all that recognizes Trump or Clinton as a target or suspect in regards to this case.




Who knows, maybe the direction of the thread shouldn't be about what political opponents we can speculate might be taken down by this? Maybe center the discussion on, oh, I don't know.. Epstein? You know, like my original post directly points out?

We only have Epstein. However as so often has to be pointed out, the whole reason discussion forums roll along is speculation on a case like this. This is patently speculation at this early stage. The obvious subject of discussion here is Epstein and who was at these parties having sex with children, along with who was enabling this crime.

thaiboxerken 10th July 2019 12:45 AM

This conspiracy, based on factual data, is much worse than the fiction that was Pizzagate, yet I don't think we'll see any Republicans going vigilante for this.

Bubba 10th July 2019 12:55 AM

For digging deep, The Golden Shovel Award goes to: "Amazing Polly".

AFAIK her findings on Epstein's history and connections seem unrivaled. What could be a better blackmail system against the world's power players than a place like orgy island?


This is bigger than the various euro pedo cases combined, since the 80s

She began by asking who was behind Epstein's rising star ? Connections galore.


She' on Youtube

Amazing Polly

Epstein Stories You Won't Find in the News

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc-uysS6Tlw

Bubba 10th July 2019 01:35 AM

Les Wexner

Charles Bronfman

The Great Zaganza 10th July 2019 04:18 AM

Trump and Epstein (and no one else) had a party at Mar-a-lago with 28 girls provided by Epstein.

https://amp.businessinsider.com/trum...o-women-2019-7

applecorped 10th July 2019 04:33 AM

all sides will get some **** on them


lose/lose for everyone!!!

Sideroxylon 10th July 2019 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by applecorped (Post 12750681)
all sides will get some **** on them


lose/lose for everyone!!!

Could shoot someone on Fifth avenue etc...

Brainster 10th July 2019 09:53 AM

A new accuser gives some disturbing details (possibly NSFW):

Quote:

Jennifer Araoz says she was 14 years old when a young woman approached her outside her New York City high school in the fall of 2001.

The woman was friendly and curious, asking Araoz personal questions about her family, her upbringing, their finances. Soon she began talking to Araoz about a man she knew who was kind and wealthy and lived nearby.
It sounds like classic grooming. The girl was vulnerable because her father had died recently. Very creepy.

The details may be disturbing and possibly NSFW, even though it's NBC News. This guy is such a scumbag.

dudalb 10th July 2019 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smartcooky (Post 12750351)
This.

Numerous historical rape allegations brought down Bill Cosby and Rolf Harris. Over 25 women have accused Trump of rape or sexual assault, that is more accusers than Cosby or Harris. How is it that Trump has managed to avoid the same axe?

This isn't about politics, its about justice for the victims. I wouldn't care if Trump was left, right or centre. If he really did these things, he should go down for it. If Bill Clinton was involved, he should be in for the chop too!



Sorry, but it is about politics.This kind of thing has been given a green light by the President of the US and his party. Taking themj down is the highest priority. and is frankly more impoirtant then sending Epstein to jail..though by all means he should be sent.

The Great Zaganza 10th July 2019 11:37 AM

The Epstein case is political, because Epstein can bring down many powerful people ... or not.

3point14 10th July 2019 11:55 AM

As horrific as this is, it's a symptom of a greater issue. In the US - and in the UK - there's a two or three tier justice system - wealth based, of course - that is, I believe, a problem.

Senex 10th July 2019 02:24 PM

Trump declares outrage.


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