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-   -   China (https://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=348628)

Orphia Nay 24th December 2020 10:31 PM

China
 
We don't seem to have a thread on China.

People in the USA, and the older generation seem pretty scared of China, in my experience.

Yet I know people who visit there regularly, or have visited there, or live there, and they've loved it.

Is this an East/West thing that is outdated?

I have a theory that the more people in high-income countries talk as if they're scared, the more China might want to impose tariffs (for example) on the USA or UK or Australia.

Kind of like the fear reaps fear, though there should be no reason for fear.

China might be afraid the US is so afraid they will harm them, and vice versa.

Can't we all get along?

Happy Christmas, BTW. :)

Skeptic Ginger 24th December 2020 11:16 PM

I'm not aware of anyone in the US that fears China. Perhaps you could elaborate on what you mean.

cullennz 24th December 2020 11:27 PM

Have no issue with China, but if it helps, at least from a NZ point of view, it tends to be the left of politics that a scared and go on about them.

Work with Chinese people. All seem cool. One was a bit defensive when talking their history, but probably my fault for mentioning it.

Venom 24th December 2020 11:29 PM

I don't like the way they treat cats and dogs.

I don't like their atrocious record on human rights and the way they hand out death sentences and do executions.

As a Southeast Asian I sort of understand how so much of the population in these countries are attracted to strongmen and dictators---seems to be just what they're used to. But China's modern development is special. It's a peg short of superpower, and it still behaves like a forgettable third-rate dictatorship in many ways.

cullennz 25th December 2020 12:19 AM

Plenty of countries eat dogs.


Plenty of countries won't eat pigs for some stupid religious reason


Personally think you are doing a disservice saying China isn't a superpower. When you have a country like the US owing you 1.17 trillion dollars, you could probably claim to have a bit of clout.

Not that the US will probably bother paying it back.

The Atheist 25th December 2020 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13337040)
I'm not aware of anyone in the US that fears China. Perhaps you could elaborate on what you mean.

Wow, you need to get out more. One of the main planks used against Biden was that only Trump is willing to stand up to China.

Take a short look at Skeptical Community and you'll find a nice pocket of Sinophobes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venom (Post 13337044)
I don't like their atrocious record on human rights and the way they hand out death sentences and do executions.

Not just their record, the arrogance with which they do it is astonishing. They're aware of their economic clout and use it willingly and corruptly.

I'm not even going to bother with their record on women's rights, but if you can find a woman in the CCP leadership let me know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venom (Post 13337044)
It's a peg short of superpower, and it still behaves like a forgettable third-rate dictatorship in many ways.

Exactly that.

Shadowdweller 25th December 2020 04:26 AM

China is filled with dirty, nasty commies that secretly control all the (liberal) politicians we don't like. And are the real ones trying to hack American elections and put bounties on the heads of American soldiers, despite what all the treasonous intelligence agencies say. Except when it comes to trade deals, then they're good people.

Delphic Oracle 25th December 2020 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cullennz (Post 13337056)
Plenty of countries eat dogs.





Plenty of countries won't eat pigs for some stupid religious reason





Personally think you are doing a disservice saying China isn't a superpower. When you have a country like the US owing you 1.17 trillion dollars, you could probably claim to have a bit of clout.



Not that the US will probably bother paying it back.

We have been, are currently, and will continue to pay the full amount due on every U.S. Treasury bond that matures.

There is no special "we don't actually pay these back" stack of bonds and banks don't join in some act of nationalist solidarity and look the other way when a creditor stiffs a bank that happens to be foreign.

dann 25th December 2020 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Atheist (Post 13337080)
Wow, you need to get out more. One of the main planks used against Biden was that only Trump is willing to stand up to China.

Take a short look at Skeptical Community and you'll find a nice pocket of Sinophobes.

Saying that a country or a group of people is awfully dangerous is not necessarily indicative of fear: See Cuba or Antifa.

Quote:

Not just their record, the arrogance with which they do it is astonishing. They're aware of their economic clout and use it willingly and corruptly.

I'm not even going to bother with their record on women's rights, but if you can find a woman in the CCP leadership let me know.
Women appear to be a minority, but there are some women: 19th Central Committee of the Chinese Communist Party: Members (Wikipedia)
"♀ Indicates that the individual is female."

MRC_Hans 25th December 2020 07:25 AM

China is a fantastic country, but it is also scary in many ways.
However, let me say that any statement about China shorter than an entire book is bound to be oversimplified. It is a huge and diverse country with several thousand years of history.

Hans

Bikewer 25th December 2020 08:19 AM

That China is a threat is a major talking point on the right. They do make some points...
China has been busily improving their military capabilities, and seem intent on using those capabilities to expand their influence in the region.
They have also been expanding their influence worldwide, especially in “developing” countries in Africa and South America, often spending heavily on infrastructure and such. Of course, the US did exactly the same thing before retreating to insularity....

Their business practices are pretty awful according to US firms that have tried building/marketing there. The standard approach appears to be to demand “sharing” technology, and then blatantly stealing it and not allowing the widgets made in the US factories to be sold in China. The same widgets, copied exactly, are marketed domestically by the Chinese “mirror” factories.

And of course ongoing hacking attacks against US technologies...

Some see this as a road towards “world domination”... Whatever that might mean, while others simply see China’s efforts as dragging what was a 3rd-world country into the mainstream and achieving prosperity for it’s (very many) citizens.

Arcade22 25th December 2020 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orphia Nay (Post 13337029)
Can't we all get along?

You should see the way the Chinese ambassador to Sweden acts. Smug self-righteous chauvinist is a very accurate description of how he has behaved in a professional capacity, with the apparent blessing of his employers. It's no wonder that Swedish public opinion on China has dropped so much recently when their chief apologist only makes their country come off even worse.

Darat 25th December 2020 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bikewer (Post 13337186)
...snip...

Some see this as a road towards “world domination”... Whatever that might mean, while others simply see China’s efforts as dragging what was a 3rd-world country into the mainstream and achieving prosperity for it’s (very many) citizens.

Compared to how other superpowers (of their time) came to be superpowers the Chinese seem about on par.

Modified 25th December 2020 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cullennz (Post 13337056)
Plenty of countries eat dogs.


They don't eat many in China - estimated at about one per 100 people per year, compared to one per 250 people per year in the US. It's only popular in a very small region of China.

Delphic Oracle 25th December 2020 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bikewer (Post 13337186)
That China is a threat is a major talking point on the right. They do make some points...
China has been busily improving their military capabilities, and seem intent on using those capabilities to expand their influence in the region.
They have also been expanding their influence worldwide, especially in “developing” countries in Africa and South America, often spending heavily on infrastructure and such. Of course, the US did exactly the same thing before retreating to insularity....

Their business practices are pretty awful according to US firms that have tried building/marketing there. The standard approach appears to be to demand “sharing” technology, and then blatantly stealing it and not allowing the widgets made in the US factories to be sold in China. The same widgets, copied exactly, are marketed domestically by the Chinese “mirror” factories.

And of course ongoing hacking attacks against US technologies...

Some see this as a road towards “world domination”... Whatever that might mean, while others simply see China’s efforts as dragging what was a 3rd-world country into the mainstream and achieving prosperity for it’s (very many) citizens.

Companies operating in China with such agreements...er...agreed to those terms.

That isn't some magical "gotcha" that was invisible at signing by using disappearing-reappearing ink.

That was the deal. They agreed to it.

Let's also recall that before Beijing started to assert itself this way with a "what's in it for us?" policy, its not like China was an ideal model of benevolent corporate responsibility.

Doubt 25th December 2020 11:27 AM

China is playing games to collect resources. It is like a smarter version of what Japan was doing up to world war 2. They understand that they don't need to directly control land to control resources. They don't understand that at some point their neighbors are going to be sick of their crap and cut them off as a group. They are exposed to a world wide embargo and their best counter is the economic damage it would do to countries like the US.

That said, Trump's efforts were nothing better than flailing around and making noise. Without help from China's other trade partners there was nothing to gain and a lot to lose.

The Democrats being in bed with China is just a manufactured concept needed to vilify them.

In the long run the best way to counter China is to undermine their economy by building up other countries that could do low wage manufacturing. This means more business for South and South East Asia along with whatever parts of Africa are stable enough. That has to be done in a way that keeps China out of those places.

trustbutverify 25th December 2020 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13337040)
I'm not aware of anyone in the US that fears China. Perhaps you could elaborate on what you mean.

??

Skeptic Ginger 25th December 2020 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Atheist (Post 13337080)
Wow, you need to get out more. One of the main planks used against Biden was that only Trump is willing to stand up to China....

Maybe you should visit us. Just because Trump has a gaslight propaganda campaign doesn't mean people are afraid of China.

Skeptic Ginger 25th December 2020 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowdweller (Post 13337110)
China is filled with dirty, nasty commies that secretly control all the (liberal) politicians we don't like. And are the real ones trying to hack American elections and put bounties on the heads of American soldiers, despite what all the treasonous intelligence agencies say. Except when it comes to trade deals, then they're good people.

:sdl:

MRC_Hans 25th December 2020 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bikewer (Post 13337186)
That China is a threat is a major talking point on the right. They do make some points...
China has been busily improving their military capabilities, and seem intent on using those capabilities to expand their influence in the region.

That may eventually be a matter of concern. So far, however, China is still quite weak, militarily.

Quote:

They have also been expanding their influence worldwide, especially in “developing” countries in Africa and South America, often spending heavily on infrastructure and such. Of course, the US did exactly the same thing before retreating to insularity...
In these areas, China has the "advantage" of not being too preoccupied with human rights.

Quote:

Their business practices are pretty awful according to US firms that have tried building/marketing there. The standard approach appears to be to demand “sharing” technology, and then blatantly stealing it and not allowing the widgets made in the US factories to be sold in China. The same widgets, copied exactly, are marketed domestically by the Chinese “mirror” factories.
I have been heavily involved in transferring production to China. Yes, they are quite eager to avoid just being a source of cheap labor. However, it is quite possible to set up production in China and make it profitable. If you make a fuzz about it, the Chinese authorities will try to crack down on copy production.

Quote:

And of course ongoing hacking attacks against US technologies..
A basic problem is that the idea of intellectual property has so far not gained much traction in China. I think that will happen when China begins to have it's own intellectual properties.

Quote:

Some see this as a road towards “world domination”... Whatever that might mean, while others simply see China’s efforts as dragging what was a 3rd-world country into the mainstream and achieving prosperity for it’s (very many) citizens.
The latter is closest to the truth. China has dragged more than half a billion people out of poverty during the last few decades. Some of the methods have been rather ham-fisted, but in general, the population appreciates the effort.

Hans

dudalb 25th December 2020 03:06 PM

I don't like authoratarian dictatorships, period, and China certainly qualafies there.

dudalb 25th December 2020 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRC_Hans (Post 13337427)
That may eventually be a matter of concern. So far, however, China is still quite weak, militarily.



In these areas, China has the "advantage" of not being too preoccupied with human rights.



I have been heavily involved in transferring production to China. Yes, they are quite eager to avoid just being a source of cheap labor. However, it is quite possible to set up production in China and make it profitable. If you make a fuzz about it, the Chinese authorities will try to crack down on copy production.



A basic problem is that the idea of intellectual property has so far not gained much traction in China. I think that will happen when China begins to have it's own intellectual properties.



The latter is closest to the truth. China has dragged more than half a billion people out of poverty during the last few decades. Some of the methods have been rather ham-fisted, but in general, the population appreciates the effort.

Hans


Gee, sounds like what they said about Joe Stalin
Just a varaition on the old "But he made the trains runs on time" and I, frankly have no use for these kind of apologists.

Venom 25th December 2020 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cullennz (Post 13337056)
Plenty of countries eat dogs.

Yes and where I'm from they do(did) too.

But the conditions they keep the animals in in those wet markets is appalling.

The Atheist 25th December 2020 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13337364)
Maybe you should visit us. Just because Trump has a gaslight propaganda campaign doesn't mean people are afraid of China.

The people being scared of China long predate Trump's presidency.

To some degree, I think China should be feared. They're dangerous imperialist nutters. Their recent history suggests at least a huge amount of caution.

Why are they hacking and interfering with tertiary institutions across NZ and Australia (and many other countries)? Why are they using their "soft" power by helping "former" members of Chinese intelligence apparatus obtain roles of importance across the world?

I'd be prepared to give them a break if they showed signs of change, but I remember Tienanmen Square, along with atrocities back to Mao and it's not letting up in multiple parts of the country.

I'm quite happy for them to play soldiers in the SC Sea, but their projection of power into areas they perceive as "not under our control" is disturbing and needs close watching. What they did the other day with the anti-Australian Tweet was appalling and unbelievably hypocritical. They lie, cheat and throw their weight around just like other superpowers do and have.

Right now, along with wiping out islam, they're indulging in re-writing history on Genghis Khan.

cullennz 25th December 2020 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Atheist (Post 13337614)
The people being scared of China long predate Trump's presidency.

To some degree, I think China should be feared. They're dangerous imperialist nutters. Their recent history suggests at least a huge amount of caution.

Why are they hacking and interfering with tertiary institutions across NZ and Australia (and many other countries)? Why are they using their "soft" power by helping "former" members of Chinese intelligence apparatus obtain roles of importance across the world?

I'd be prepared to give them a break if they showed signs of change, but I remember Tienanmen Square, along with atrocities back to Mao and it's not letting up in multiple parts of the country.

I'm quite happy for them to play soldiers in the SC Sea, but their projection of power into areas they perceive as "not under our control" is disturbing and needs close watching. What they did the other day with the anti-Australian Tweet was appalling and unbelievably hypocritical. They lie, cheat and throw their weight around just like other superpowers do and have.

Right now, along with wiping out islam, they're indulging in re-writing history on Genghis Khan.

Think you might be confusing scared with paranoid tbh.

I agree the offending Aussie propaganda thing was a bit OTT, but then so was the US's "China virus" thing.

Edit: Should also tack on they are hardly taking over unis

Skeptic Ginger 25th December 2020 07:02 PM

I live here TA, and no, people are not afraid of China anymore than they are afraid of the nebulous deep state.

Are there people who believe that nonsense, sure. There are people who believe the librul red pinko commie socialists have taken over the government. It's not a general consensus.

There was a guy in New Zealand who shot up a couple of mosques because he believed in some threat or another. Would you say New Zealanders are afraid of Muslims?

It would be rather stupid for me to say, people in New Zealand seem pretty scared of Muslims, in my experience. I read it in a magazine so I know.

:rolleyes:


BTW, we met a gent in New Zealand years back who gave us a ride, we were hitch-hiking. He said he reckoned if it weren't for us yanks they'd be speaking Japanese. :)

cullennz 25th December 2020 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13337670)
I live here TA, and no, people are not afraid of China anymore than they are afraid of the nebulous deep state.

Are there people who believe that nonsense, sure. There are people who believe the librul red pinko commie socialists have taken over the government. It's not a general consensus.

There was a guy in New Zealand who shot up a couple of mosques because he believed in some threat or another. Would you say New Zealanders are afraid of Muslims?

It would be rather stupid for me to say, people in New Zealand seem pretty scared of Muslims, in my experience. I read it in a magazine so I know.

:rolleyes:


BTW, we met a gent in New Zealand years back who gave us a ride, we were hitch-hiking. He said he reckoned if it weren't for us yanks they'd be speaking Japanese. :)

We would be eating some pretty awesome food though.

:)

TragicMonkey 25th December 2020 07:16 PM

Not the worst Tori Amos song, to be sure, but far from the best, either.

The Atheist 25th December 2020 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cullennz (Post 13337664)
Think you might be confusing scared with paranoid tbh.

Nope.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/...om-new-zealand

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/110...ce-in-auckland

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...814_story.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by cullennz (Post 13337664)
I agree the offending Aussie propaganda thing was a bit OTT, but then so was the US's "China virus" thing.

The Chinese Tweet was pretty minor in the scheme of things - I only mentioned it because of the sheer hypocrisy.

I'm a lot more concerned about their attitude to trade: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/18/aust...s-in-2020.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by cullennz (Post 13337664)
Edit: Should also tack on they are hardly taking over unis

Shouldn't have bothered with the edit, because "influence" is nothing to do with "taking over". When someone suggests the latter you can post that again.

[quote=Skeptic Ginger;13337670]Are there people who believe that nonsense, sure. There are people who believe the librul red pinko commie socialists have taken over the government. It's not a general consensus.[/QUOTE

Like Cully, you can save the "general consensus" crap for when someone says that. Two strawmen in two consecutive posts from you and Cully there - nice work.

I didn't say it was a majority, I just refuted your original point (that you confirm in the first sentence quoted above) which was: "I'm not aware of anyone in the US that fears China."

Now you say you are aware of some people that do, so maybe you could decide which you actually believe.

Orphia Nay 25th December 2020 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doubt (Post 13337326)
China is playing games to collect resources. It is like a smarter version of what Japan was doing up to world war 2. They understand that they don't need to directly control land to control resources. They don't understand that at some point their neighbors are going to be sick of their crap and cut them off as a group. They are exposed to a world wide embargo and their best counter is the economic damage it would do to countries like the US.

That said, Trump's efforts were nothing better than flailing around and making noise. Without help from China's other trade partners there was nothing to gain and a lot to lose.

The Democrats being in bed with China is just a manufactured concept needed to vilify them.

In the long run the best way to counter China is to undermine their economy by building up other countries that could do low wage manufacturing. This means more business for South and South East Asia along with whatever parts of Africa are stable enough. That has to be done in a way that keeps China out of those places.

China is burdened by its past of being the poor nation providing cheap goods for high-income countries.

Now, it's using education and technology to develop its Belt and Road initiative {Wikipedia} to connect Eurasia and allow easier transport of goods, and less poverty for itself and other countries.

Elagabalus 25th December 2020 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doubt (Post 13337326)
China is playing games to collect resources. It is like a smarter version of what Japan was doing up to world war 2. They understand that they don't need to directly control land to control resources. They don't understand that at some point their neighbors are going to be sick of their crap and cut them off as a group. They are exposed to a world wide embargo and their best counter is the economic damage it would do to countries like the US.

That said, Trump's efforts were nothing better than flailing around and making noise. Without help from China's other trade partners there was nothing to gain and a lot to lose.

The Democrats being in bed with China is just a manufactured concept needed to vilify them.

In the long run the best way to counter China is to undermine their economy by building up other countries that could do low wage manufacturing. This means more business for South and South East Asia along with whatever parts of Africa are stable enough. That has to be done in a way that keeps China out of those places.

IOW, Chicom, CCP. deep state, will try to get Briben elected so they can rule the world with their pedo/satanist cohorts.

cullennz 25th December 2020 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Atheist (Post 13337683)
Nope.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/...om-new-zealand

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/110...ce-in-auckland

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...814_story.html



The Chinese Tweet was pretty minor in the scheme of things - I only mentioned it because of the sheer hypocrisy.

I'm a lot more concerned about their attitude to trade: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/18/aust...s-in-2020.html



Shouldn't have bothered with the edit, because "influence" is nothing to do with "taking over". When someone suggests the latter you can post that again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13337670)
Are there people who believe that nonsense, sure. There are people who believe the librul red pinko commie socialists have taken over the government. It's not a general consensus.

Like Cully, you can save the "general consensus" crap for when someone says that. Two strawmen in two consecutive posts from you and Cully there - nice work.

I didn't say it was a majority, I just refuted your original point (that you confirm in the first sentence quoted above) which was: "I'm not aware of anyone in the US that fears China."

Now you say you are aware of some people that do, so maybe you could decide which you actually believe.

Atheist. I am not denying that the current Chinese international relationship policy is to run/own as much **** as possible to have major influence.

But this is hardly a new concept when it comes to countries like ours.

The US is the same with its past international smash and grab, same as the UK years ago.

How many of our banks and supermarkets (in the supermarket case with their duopoly) are raking in our cash as they are owned by Aussies?

At least **** tends to get done rather than farting round.

The Atheist 25th December 2020 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cullennz (Post 13337709)
The US is the same with its past international smash and grab, same as the UK years ago.

How many of our banks and supermarkets (in the supermarket case with their duopoly) are raking in our cash as they are owned by Aussies?

I'm not happy about any of that - it is one of the problems of being a pimple in the ocean on the arse of the planet, but UK, USA & Aussie don't go around assaulting MPs on Parliament grounds, or use trade embargoes and illegal charges on imports on political grounds.

They don't demand that routes they travel on have all protests hidden, either.

Orphia Nay 25th December 2020 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Atheist (Post 13337738)
I'm not happy about any of that - it is one of the problems of being a pimple in the ocean on the arse of the planet, but UK, USA & Aussie don't go around assaulting MPs on Parliament grounds, or use trade embargoes and illegal charges on imports on political grounds.

US and Aussie use tariffs on China, and vice versa. Happens all the time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Atheist (Post 13337738)
They don't demand that routes they travel on have all protests hidden, either.

Protests in Europe haven't been hidden, as an example.

Where were you thinking of?

Skeptic Ginger 25th December 2020 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Atheist (Post 13337683)
Nope.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/...om-new-zealand

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/110...ce-in-auckland

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...814_story.html

The Chinese Tweet was pretty minor in the scheme of things - I only mentioned it because of the sheer hypocrisy.

I'm a lot more concerned about their attitude to trade: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/18/aust...s-in-2020.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13337670)
Are there people who believe that nonsense, sure. There are people who believe the librul red pinko commie socialists have taken over the government. It's not a general consensus.

Like Cully, you can save the "general consensus" crap for when someone says that. Two strawmen in two consecutive posts from you and Cully there - nice work....

Yeah right, you know all about Americans from reading the papers.

And you think I'm the one that doesn't get out enough. :rolleyes:

cullennz 25th December 2020 10:00 PM

It wasn't that long ago our current govt were going on about the US having too much control over the GCSB.....

...While in the past running the GCSB

cullennz 25th December 2020 10:01 PM

And now running the GCSB

Skeptic Ginger 25th December 2020 10:06 PM

When I went to the Dominican Republic years ago, in my early 20s, people told me it was dangerous. It wasn't, they'd had a revolution a full decade earlier. And everyone in Central America supposedly hated Americans. They didn't. People I met who were headed to FL were worried about all the crime. There wasn't any particular crime wave going on. Traveling around Ecuador (JREF Galapagos Islands side trip I took on my own) people said it was dangerous, crime everywhere. There wasn't.

I have run into trouble in more than one country, none of which anyone warned me about. Most of the time people are people everywhere you go. Bottom line though, you never see what a country or its people are like unless you go there.

cullennz 25th December 2020 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13337775)
When I went to the Dominican Republic years ago, in my early 20s, people told me it was dangerous. It wasn't, they'd had a revolution a full decade earlier. And everyone in Central America supposedly hated Americans. They didn't. People I met who were headed to FL were worried about all the crime. There wasn't any particular crime wave going on. Traveling around Ecuador (JREF Galapagos Islands side trip I took on my own) people said it was dangerous, crime everywhere. There wasn't.

I have run into trouble in more than one country, none of which anyone warned me about. Most of the time people are people everywhere you go. Bottom line though, you never see what a country or its people are like unless you go there.

Agree totally.

There might be certain timings where you might want to take odd things into consideration depending on country, but usually everything will be fine.

Skeptic Ginger 25th December 2020 10:17 PM

Political propaganda is not what most people experience in their lives. It's always something they have a nebulous concept of. Trump sycophants might rant and rave about China or librul commies but they are only a small number relative to most people. For example, Trump tried to make everyone believe there were riots all over Seattle. The protests affected a couple square blocks. Only people who spent no time in Seattle believed that crap.

The news media can make something small like that look huge. They make it sound like there are millions who believe the stuff the paper reports about when in reality there might be a couple thousand and more often than not it's a couple hundred.

Yes, a lot of people voted for Trump. That's doesn't make the few who make the papers, examples of what all the rest are like.


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