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-   -   Continuation The Trump Presidency: Part 19 (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=341209)

a_unique_person 31st January 2020 09:41 PM

They look like pre formed panels.

Trebuchet 31st January 2020 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SezMe (Post 12973939)
All this presidential stuff is nonsense. The really bigly question is how you can be a Brooklyn Baby and use "y'all". Does not compute.

There's more than one Brooklyn.

Captain_Swoop 1st February 2020 03:44 AM

Trump is claiming today that Ivanka has “created over 15 million jobs”
That's twice more than the total number of jobs created since he took office

a_unique_person 1st February 2020 04:09 AM

Trump wants Ivanka to be President after his next term finishes.

turingtest 1st February 2020 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 12973913)
Ummm...excuse me, sir...but wasn't it the Republicans in the Senate today who voted down having any witnesses?

And weren't you invited to appear and to present witnesses during the House proceedings and refused to do so, going so far as to order your 'exonerating' witnesses not to appear?

This right here needs to be a message hammered home by Democrats for the next nine months. And the "Dems didn't care enough to pursue subpoenas in the courts" point is irrelevant in this context- you can't whine about not being allowed witnesses on your behalf when you've done everything in your power to block their appearance.

pgwenthold 1st February 2020 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turingtest (Post 12974130)
This right here needs to be a message hammered home by Democrats for the next nine months. And the "Dems didn't care enough to pursue subpoenas in the courts" point is irrelevant in this context- you can't whine about not being allowed witnesses on your behalf when you've done everything in your power to block their appearance.

The president whined about not be allowed to call witnesses on a day when the big news was, literally, that Republicans voted against allowing witnesses at the impeachment hearing.

If that doesn't convince you it's all a bunch of ****, I don't know what would.

Sideroxylon 1st February 2020 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgwenthold (Post 12974133)
The president whined about not be allowed to call witnesses on a day when the big news was, literally, that Republicans voted against allowing witnesses at the impeachment hearing.

If that doesn't convince you it's all a bunch of ****, I don't know what would.

Welcome to 1984.

shemp 1st February 2020 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 12974091)
Trump is claiming today that Ivanka has “created over 15 million jobs”
That's twice more than the total number of jobs created since he took office

But she also destroyed over 15 million other jobs!

Ladewig 1st February 2020 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shemp (Post 12974167)
But she also destroyed over 15 million other jobs!

Actually, you make a reasonable point that would allow us to logically dismiss the (asserted) data.

[I’ve always wanted to post that reply in response to a Shemp message.]

newyorkguy 1st February 2020 07:55 AM

Regarding recent events. The problem is Trump. Below are news quotes from another forum.

Quote:

According to Forensic News, Trump’s loans from Deutsche Bank were underwritten by a Russian state-owned bank. That news reportedly comes from a whistleblower with access to documents from both Deutsche Bank and Russia’s state-owned VTB Bank. The question of why Deutsche Bank would extend a series of huge loans to Trump has been dangling since before he ever announced his candidacy for president on a golden escalator ride. When Trump first went to Deutsche Bank, he was worse than broke. He had just finished bankrupting multiple casinos in New Jersey, and then had convinced investors to back a takeover of those casinos at a fraction of the original value. Then Trump deliberately allowed the investment group to go bankrupt so he could grab the whole deal himself at a fraction of what his investors had paid. Then he went bankrupt. Again. And along the way he was socked with a massive fine for money laundering at his now bankrupt (again) casino.

Much of Trump’s “recovery” depended on selling apartments and buildings to Russian oligarchs at far above market prices. Those deals have always suggested the same kind of money laundering that added to the conviction of Trump campaign chair Paul Manafort, but if these accusations are accurate, Russia did far more for Trump than buy his gilded condos.
Not all that long ago, it would have been unthinkable for a man with this kind of personal history to run for a high office, much less get elected. The underlying problem is, as one of the GOP senators said, we are in a period of cultural warfare in the U.S. Few of Trump's supporters care about any of this. They are so angry and vindictive -- you can see it very clearly in the messages they post here -- that they support Trump because he is their cultural champion. Nothing else matters. It's a deal with the devil and it is not going to end well.

Captain_Swoop 1st February 2020 10:52 AM

Trump Tweets

Trump poll numbers are the highest since election, despite constant phony Witch Hunts! Tens of thousands of people attending rallies (which the Fake News never mentions) to see “The Greatest Show On Earth”. Fun because USA is WINNING AGAIN!

Congratulations to @loudobbs, Number One. Lou has shown the Fake News what happens when you cover “America’s Greatest President” fairly & objectively! #MAGA #KAG

newyorkguy 1st February 2020 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 12974286)
Trump Tweets - Trump poll numbers are the highest since election...

From Gallup:
Quote:

Donald Trump's Presidential Job Approval Ratings
 
Approval rating % /Dates
Latest job approval rating 44% Jan 2-15, 2020
Term average to date 40% Jan 20, 2017-present
Gallup
Womp womp ;)

Segnosaur 1st February 2020 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig4 (Post 12973893)
Quote:

I have to admit, I find it hard to find sympathy for the American Farmer, given the fact that they tend to be very supportive for Trump. (His approval rating is currently around 83%).
Let's see what color Nebraska and Iowa turn just after midnight on the first Wednesday in November before we enjoy their suffering.

Even if by chance those states end up voting Democrat does not mean that it is due to the farmers.

Even the most agriculturally-intensive state will have at least some urban population. Its quite possible for the majority of farmers to keep voting for Stubby mcBonespurs, but for him to still lose the state because the democrats made strong inroads into the cities.

And, as other posters have suggested, the states voted for Trump in 2016 and are not expected to change.

Armitage72 1st February 2020 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 12974286)
Trump Tweets

Tens of thousands of people attending rallies (which the Fake News never mentions) to see “The Greatest Show On Earth”.


So he's admitting that he and his entire administration are a circus?

acbytesla 1st February 2020 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segnosaur (Post 12974352)
Even if by chance those states end up voting Democrat does not mean that it is due to the farmers.

Even the most agriculturally-intensive state will have at least some urban population. Its quite possible for the majority of farmers to keep voting for Stubby mcBonespurs, but for him to still lose the state because the democrats made strong inroads into the cities.

And, as other posters have suggested, the states voted for Trump in 2016 and are not expected to change.

The vast majority of people even in Nebraska, Iowa and the other farm states do not live on farms. They might work on the farms or the processing plants. They live in small towns. There are still family farms but they aren't what they use to be. There is a lot of rural and small town poor that have no business voting Republican out there. The GOP use the culture wars on them. It's God, Guns and Gays. Trump adds xenophobia and racism to the mix.

quadraginta 1st February 2020 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggurat (Post 12972755)
Quote:

Originally Posted by quadraginta (Post 12972596)
I'm kinda interested in how it happened. The details, I mean. It isn't like standing large panels up on concrete foundations is some revolutionary new building technique. And wind load is (or should be) a basic consideration with any structure.

The concrete hadn't cured yet.


So they said. That was one of the statements which puzzled me, but that's why I am interested in more detail. How ... and when ... did they know that?

Standard practice in concrete construction (mandated in most jurisdictions, and nearly always by owners/architects/engineers-of-record for any project much bigger than a work shed) is for concrete test cylinders to be made. These are broken at predetermined intervals depending on the requirements of the project. Regular concrete usually reaches design strength at 28 days, and 70% of design at 7 days. If the job requirements dictate steps based on a certain strength then extra cylinders may be made to check the curing progress.

If the job requirements dictate quicker curing than regular concrete provides then a "high-early" mix can be used, which can reach design strength in 5 to 7 days.

If the concrete had not cured enough for the panels to be erected then they should have known that. If they didn't then they dropped the ball. If they did, and didn't take steps to compensated for that then they dropped the ball.

I spent the best part of four decades mostly building concrete structures of various shapes, applications, and sizes. Usually very large. Strength and curing is concrete 101.

Quote:

I suspect the wind load was accounted for in the finished design, but maybe not all the intermediate stages.

If it hadn't been then it should have been. This isn't ground-breaking building design. It is all bog-standard stuff the industry has been doing for a very long time.

Quote:

Quote:

Someone screwed up or cut corners.

Or both.
That's not clear to me. It may be that the risk of damage during construction was low enough that it wasn't worth the extra cost of reinforcing it during the curing stage.

It's clear to me, maybe because I spent so much time doing that sort of work. Supporting walls against wind loads when required isn't super expensive. It's fairly cheap, actually, and certainly by comparison to the cost of fixing things if they fall down.

Even regular masonry construction often requires wind bracing if the walls are going to be freestanding for very long before the rest of the structure which holds them up is built. Masons deal with this every day.

For a structure which is designed and intended to be freestanding against the normal extremes of weather ... and by normal I mean storm winds , etc. ... then this is not only a basic, temporary consideration, it is literally the only consideration.

Someone screwed up. The only questions are who, why, and how bad.

I expect that there won't be a lot of follow-up on this, though. Cover-up, more like.

quadraginta 1st February 2020 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a_unique_person (Post 12973971)
They look like pre formed panels.


Yes. Pre-cast, possibly site-cast panels.

Something that has been a common technique almost as long as the modern use of concrete in building has gone on.

This makes the error even more egregious, since the only thing keeping such free-standing panels standing in an application like that, without temporary supplemental bracing, is the fasteners which are used to secure them to the footings. The integrity of those fasteners would be solely dependent on the cure strength of the footing concrete.

If it is true that the footing concrete was not cured sufficiently then somebody screwed up badly.

SezMe 1st February 2020 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trebuchet (Post 12973979)
There's more than one Brooklyn.

Sheesh, there's FOUR (count 'em 4) in Wisconsin. Are they all Sister Cities? :)

Minoosh 1st February 2020 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 12974091)
Trump is claiming today that Ivanka has “created over 15 million jobs”
That's twice more than the total number of jobs created since he took office

Ah, but he doesn't specify what country the Ivanka-created jobs are in.

Trebuchet 1st February 2020 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SezMe (Post 12974587)
Sheesh, there's FOUR (count 'em 4) in Wisconsin. Are they all Sister Cities? :)

No, those would be female. Only red-blooded 'Merican MALES allowed in our Brooklyn!

jeremyp 2nd February 2020 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 12974091)
Trump is claiming today that Ivanka has “created over 15 million jobs”
That's twice more than the total number of jobs created since he took office

So Trump himself has destroyed 7.5 million jobs.

Ladewig 2nd February 2020 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newyorkguy (Post 12974178)
Regarding recent events. The problem is Trump. Below are news quotes from another forum.



Not all that long ago, it would have been unthinkable for a man with this kind of personal history to run for a high office, much less get elected. The underlying problem is, as one of the GOP senators said, we are in a period of cultural warfare in the U.S. Few of Trump's supporters care about any of this. They are so angry and vindictive -- you can see it very clearly in the messages they post here -- that they support Trump because he is their cultural champion. Nothing else matters. It's a deal with the devil and it is not going to end well.

WTF!?

my first reaction is to say this is evidence that he didn’t intend to win. No semi-rational American with 8,9, or 10-figure ties to Russia would think he could run for president, win, and hide this information. On the other, if all this is true, he has financial and legal geniuses working for him.

Again, if true, Regis would be undeniable evidence that the system is broken.

ETA
And I’m a chuckle-head for using the phrase “undeniable evidence” in the year 2020.

MORE ETA:
I keep flashing on the line from Glengarry Glen Ross (1992). “What’s my name? My name is **** you. That’s my name.”
Except here it is “What’s my reason for supporting President Trump? My reason is **** you. That’s my reason.”

Ladewig 2nd February 2020 03:11 AM

Quadraginta, you left off an item from your list of sources for this problem. How the contracts were awarded.

Armitage72 2nd February 2020 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quadraginta (Post 12974564)
Standard practice in concrete construction (mandated in most jurisdictions, and nearly always by owners/architects/engineers-of-record for any project much bigger than a work shed) is for concrete test cylinders to be made. These are broken at predetermined intervals depending on the requirements of the project. Regular concrete usually reaches design strength at 28 days, and 70% of design at 7 days. If the job requirements dictate steps based on a certain strength then extra cylinders may be made to check the curing progress.

If the job requirements dictate quicker curing than regular concrete provides then a "high-early" mix can be used, which can reach design strength in 5 to 7 days.

If the concrete had not cured enough for the panels to be erected then they should have known that. If they didn't then they dropped the ball. If they did, and didn't take steps to compensated for that then they dropped the ball.

I spent the best part of four decades mostly building concrete structures of various shapes, applications, and sizes. Usually very large. Strength and curing is concrete 101.


I used to work for the upstate branch of an environmental testing company headquartered near New York City. In addition to air monitoring and clearance testing for asbestos and lead paint abatement, we also did concrete testing for construction projects. Several years after I quit, the company shut down following fraud charges against the company and the owners. Among other things, they were pouring the test cylinders, and then "confirming" their quality with computer simulations instead of actually crushing them.

The Man 2nd February 2020 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ladewig (Post 12974847)
WTF!?

my first reaction is to say this is evidence that he didn’t intend to win. No semi-rational American with 8,9, or 10-figure ties to Russia would think he could run for president, win, and hide this information. On the other, if all this is true, he has financial and legal geniuses working for him.


Didn't they successfully sue a lender for contributing to the conditions that caused him to default on his loan from said lender? Certainly creative financial and legal geniuses.

Given the public domain information available it's probably becoming an arguable position that if you are stupid enough to lend to Donald Trump you can't have any reasonable expectation of actually being paid back.

quadraginta 2nd February 2020 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ladewig (Post 12974850)
Quadraginta, you left off an item from your list of sources for this problem. How the contracts were awarded.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armitage72 (Post 12974889)
I used to work for the upstate branch of an environmental testing company headquartered near New York City. In addition to air monitoring and clearance testing for asbestos and lead paint abatement, we also did concrete testing for construction projects. Several years after I quit, the company shut down following fraud charges against the company and the owners. Among other things, they were pouring the test cylinders, and then "confirming" their quality with computer simulations instead of actually crushing them.


Certainly illegal and unethical business practices could be considered. I chose not to include them because not only is that needlessly inflammatory but, where a Trump project is concerned, also a given.

In general, when fraudulent testing services are involved it is nearly always because someone among the owners/architects/builders/etc. want them to be. The reason for testing services (legitimate ones, of course) is not punitive. It is another step in the checks and revues system to prevent problems, and is generally considered a benefit to the project in question by all (well ... nearly all) concerned.

The thing about bogus cylinder testing it is and has been (sadly too often in certain jurisdictions, not pointing fingers at NYC in particular of course ) easily exposed by taking new test cylinders in situ of the problematic concrete. These would, of course, have to be tested by a different testing agency. One which hopefully doesn't suffer from the same questions of legitimacy.

The point remains, however, that no matter what the reason was that these panels fell over, they shouldn't have. And somebody screwed up.

The elephant unmentioned so far is that it puts the safety of all the panels erected so far in question. Not just the ones that have been gracious enough to fall over without hurting anyone yet.

Armitage72 2nd February 2020 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quadraginta (Post 12975066)
In general, when fraudulent testing services are involved it is nearly always because someone among the owners/architects/builders/etc. want them to be. The reason for testing services (legitimate ones, of course) is not punitive. It is another step in the checks and revues system to prevent problems, and is generally considered a benefit to the project in question by all (well ... nearly all) concerned.


At a later job, I was getting HAZWOPER training and the instructor happened to be a former employee of the lab as well. He talked about sitting in the main office and watching fancy cars pull into the parking lot and men in expensive suits with bulges under their jackets come in to visit the company President.

Belz... 2nd February 2020 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newyorkguy (Post 12974178)
Regarding recent events. The problem is Trump. Below are news quotes from another forum.



Not all that long ago, it would have been unthinkable for a man with this kind of personal history to run for a high office, much less get elected. The underlying problem is, as one of the GOP senators said, we are in a period of cultural warfare in the U.S. Few of Trump's supporters care about any of this. They are so angry and vindictive -- you can see it very clearly in the messages they post here -- that they support Trump because he is their cultural champion. Nothing else matters. It's a deal with the devil and it is not going to end well.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...327fd81cb4.jpg

abaddon 2nd February 2020 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot (Post 12969655)
I hasn't (and won't be) debunked.

I just thought it was funny that Captain_Swoop commented on a quote where Trump said he thought Apple stock would go down and was proven wrong when it went up (although less than the quoted 400%). Yet when Paul Krugman makes even worse predictions, they're quietly ignored.

You hasn't? OK then, I shall slavishly follow your financial advice.

a_unique_person 2nd February 2020 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot (Post 12969655)
I hasn't (and won't be) debunked.



I just thought it was funny that Captain_Swoop commented on a quote where Trump said he thought Apple stock would go down and was proven wrong when it went up (although less than the quoted 400%). Yet when Paul Krugman makes even worse predictions, they're quietly ignored.

I don't take any economists predictions as truth. Just about all of them failed predicting the 2008 crash.

Tero 2nd February 2020 02:45 PM

I predict a crash in early 2021, right after Trump does some really stupid thing that makes Ukraine look like a nothingburger. :D

Unless of course we can stop that by, I dunno...voting?

a_unique_person 2nd February 2020 03:35 PM

Rachael meddow has a book our now. Is it going to be 50,000 pages long with 200 worth reading?

Minoosh 2nd February 2020 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a_unique_person (Post 12975405)
Rachael meddow has a book our now. Is it going to be 50,000 pages long with 200 worth reading?

Thats a common problem with nonfiction. They put the highlights in Chapter 1 and you feel so well-informed you spring for the whole book. But after a couple of chapters there’s a lot of other chapters that might not tell you a whole lot new. Think of all the books about Trump and how many juicy excerpts are made available. I’m never sure how well they sell after that, or how many people go on to read the whole book.

Maddow will stitch everything together well, but it will be familiar to anyone who watches her TV show.

Minoosh 2nd February 2020 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tero (Post 12975365)
I predict a crash in early 2021, right after Trump does some really stupid thing that makes Ukraine look like a nothingburger. :D

Unless of course we can stop that by, I dunno...voting?

I have a feeling something is going to happen sooner. A lot of people think he will emerge from impeachment stronger but I’m not sure that’s true. Of course this could all be wishful thinking on my part.

Captain_Swoop 2nd February 2020 04:56 PM

trump Tweets

I promised to restore hope in America. That includes the least among us. Together, let’s KEEP AMERICA GREAT!
Text TRUMP to 88022 if you liked our Super Bowl ad!

ENJOY THE GAME USA, OUR COUNTRY IS DOING GREAT!

Mini Mike is now negotiating both to get on the Democrat Primary debate stage, and to have the right to stand on boxes, or a lift, during the debates. This is sometimes done, but really not fair!

Many of the ads you are watching were paid for by Mini Mike Bloomberg. He is going nowhere, just wasting his money, but he is getting the DNC to rig the election against Crazy Bernie, something they wouldn’t do for @CoryBooker and others. They are doing it to Bernie again, 2016.

Mini Mike is part of the Fake News. They are all working together. In fact, Bloomberg isn’t covering himself (too boring to do), or other Dems. Only Trump. That sounds fair! It’s all the Fake News Media, and that’s why nobody believes in them any more.

Captain_Swoop 2nd February 2020 04:59 PM

trump tweets

The Radical Left, Do Nothing Democrats, don’t want justice when pushing the Impeachment Hoax, they only want to destabilize the Republican Party so they can do better in the 2020 election, & that includes the House & Senate. They are playing with the people by taking it this far!

SezMe 2nd February 2020 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ladewig (Post 12974847)
MORE ETA:
I keep flashing on the line from Glengarry Glen Ross (1992). “What’s my name? My name is **** you. That’s my name.”
Except here it is “What’s my reason for supporting President Trump? My reason is **** you. That’s my reason.”

I once posted here that spite won in 2016. Yours is a much better, pithier way of saying it that better captures the emotion of the sentiment.

SezMe 2nd February 2020 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minoosh (Post 12975425)
Thats a common problem with nonfiction. They put the highlights in Chapter 1 and you feel so well-informed you spring for the whole book. But after a couple of chapters there’s a lot of other chapters that might not tell you a whole lot new. Think of all the books about Trump and how many juicy excerpts are made available. I’m never sure how well they sell after that, or how many people go on to read the whole book.

Maddow will stitch everything together well, but it will be familiar to anyone who watches her TV show.

Ms. SezMe is reading it now (Kindle). She says if you watch Maddow's show, you know almost all of what's in the book, just with more detail and background.

Trebuchet 2nd February 2020 06:24 PM

Trump had a Superb Owl ad! Bragging about what he's done for black people!
I'm having a hard time seeing how that's going to do him any good.
Black people know he and his supporters hate them.
His supporters hate black people.

Stacyhs 2nd February 2020 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 12975460)
trump Tweets

I promised to restore hope in America. That includes the least among us. Together, let’s KEEP AMERICA GREAT!
Text TRUMP to 88022 if you liked our Super Bowl ad!

ENJOY THE GAME USA, OUR COUNTRY IS DOING GREAT!

Mini Mike is now negotiating both to get on the Democrat Primary debate stage, and to have the right to stand on boxes, or a lift, during the debates. This is sometimes done, but really not fair!

Many of the ads you are watching were paid for by Mini Mike Bloomberg. He is going nowhere, just wasting his money, but he is getting the DNC to rig the election against Crazy Bernie, something they wouldn’t do for @CoryBooker and others. They are doing it to Bernie again, 2016.

Mini Mike is part of the Fake News. They are all working together. In fact, Bloomberg isn’t covering himself (too boring to do), or other Dems. Only Trump. That sounds fair! It’s all the Fake News Media, and that’s why nobody believes in them any more.

In all this cray-cray, one thing stood out to me: Trump is encouraging a repeat of the "Bernie or no one" attitude among Bernie supporters. He wants non-Trump voters to sit out the election if anyone but Sanders is the Dem nominee. He really is a pathetic POS.


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