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-   -   Roe v. Wade overturned -- this is some BS (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=359834)

JoeMorgue 19th August 2022 01:10 PM

Again like every one of the Right's major arguments nobody on that side is actually pretending they care. It's just more "How can I be the literal worse person you've ever met" performance art.

bruto 19th August 2022 01:24 PM

I recall an anti-abortion movie called "The Silent Scream," and always assumed the problem was the scream. But maybe it's not that, but the silent part. Zealots are happier when their victims can squeal.

Bob001 19th August 2022 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13881156)
There is literally nothing to suggest that. The whole foundation of the talking point is the cruelty of abortion. I mean, it is amazing that some liberals can talk about how "cruel" pro-life advocates are, when unborn humans are literally being vacuumed (or worse) out of wombs...in numbers over half a million (US), annually.
....


Let's just note that a majority of abortions are induced by medication. Essentially a miscarriage. No Hoovers involved.
Quote:

Use of the pills has been increasing in recent years. As of 2020, they accounted for 54% of all U.S. abortions, according to preliminary data from the Guttmacher Institute. The group’s final estimate is due later this year.
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireSt...works-86115735

Stacyhs 19th August 2022 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruto (Post 13881569)
I recall an anti-abortion movie called "The Silent Scream," and always assumed the problem was the scream. But maybe it's not that, but the silent part. Zealots are happier when their victims can squeal.

Fact checking "The Silent Scream":

Quote:

The film is riddled with medical, scientific, and legal untruths, and it focuses entirely on the fetus in an attempt to move the focus away from the needs of women seeking abortions. In fact, no attention is given during the film to the woman who needed the abortion in the first place.
The protagonist in the film is a 12 week fetus that is visualised supposedly flinching against abortion instruments and screaming during a ultrasound-guided surgical procedure. Here are some of the major untruths of the film:


The film implies that a 12 week fetus is capable of conscious sensation and feeling pain. Through studies conducted by authoritative bodies including the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists, we know that brain connections necessary for feeling pain do not develop before 24 weeks gestation.


The film implies that a 12 week fetus is capable of purposeful movements. This is untrue. At 12 weeks the fetus is not capable of consciously perceiving anything and all movements are reflex in nature. It is certainly not capable of "frantic activity" as described in the film.


The film shows the open mouth of a 12 week fetus on ultrasound. At 12 weeks the open mouth of a fetus is not visible on ultrasound.


The fetus emits a "silent scream." A 12 week fetus does not have formed lungs and certainly does not have any air in them to emit a scream. A 12 week fetus does not even display involuntary respiratory movements.


The 12 week fetus is referred to as a child. At that stage of development the fetus does not have developed organs, and is nowhere close to being able to live independently outside the womb.


The film claims that "brain waves" are present from 6 weeks. Genuine brain waves begin in the third trimester of pregnancy, when the fetus is capable of surviving outside the womb.
https://www.doctorsforchoice.mt/post...-silent-scream

Stacyhs 19th August 2022 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob001 (Post 13881583)
Let's just note that a majority of abortions are induced by medication. Essentially a miscarriage. No Hoovers involved.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireSt...works-86115735

The GOP is working relentlessly to make the use of this medication unavailable and/or illegal.

thaiboxerken 19th August 2022 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13881586)
The GOP is working relentlessly to make the use of this medication unavailable and/or illegal.

And to make contraceptives illegal as well.

The goal of the pro-life movement is to punish women.

eerok 19th August 2022 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken (Post 13881594)
The goal of the pro-life movement is to punish women.

I think the goal was to create outrage that the GOP could turn into votes, but now the dog has caught the car, and what will it do with it? I don't think the forced-pregnancy laws they're trying to pass will turn out well for them, because abortion is too fundamentally a human right, and there's not much support for trying to ban it.

Stacyhs 19th August 2022 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eerok (Post 13881621)
I think the goal was to create outrage that the GOP could turn into votes, but now the dog has caught the car, and what will it do with it? I don't think the forced-pregnancy laws they're trying to pass will turn out well for them, because abortion is too fundamentally a human right, and there's not much support for trying to ban it.

I agree. The GOP are like the dog chasing the truck and catching it only to discover it's the dog catcher.

Blue Mountain 19th August 2022 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disbelief (Post 13881246)
https://www.poynter.org/fact-checkin...s-rape-incest/

Handy chart in the article as well.

Thank you. It's a lot worse than I thought it was! :mad:

Aridas 19th August 2022 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Mountain (Post 13881675)
Thank you. It's a lot worse than I thought it was! :mad:

It gets even worse where rapists can exert their "parental rights" over the rights of the raped.

bruto 19th August 2022 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13881584)

Sorry, I just assumed it was baloney, and didn't bother to research it. I just asked Alice!

Stacyhs 19th August 2022 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruto (Post 13881801)
Sorry, I just assumed it was baloney, and didn't bother to research it. I just asked Alice!

I understood that you knew it was a pile of crap. I just wanted to point out what a piece of lying propaganda it was/is. According to the article, it's still being shown in some Catholic schools and in public schools in Malta. Talk about brainwashing!

catsmate 20th August 2022 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob001 (Post 13881583)
Let's just note that a majority of abortions are induced by medication. Essentially a miscarriage. No Hoovers involved.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireSt...works-86115735

Warpie and his ilk aren't interested in facts.

Checkmite 20th August 2022 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aridas (Post 13881796)
It gets even worse where rapists can exert their "parental rights" over the rights of the raped.

Or where certain kinds of exemptions technically "exist", but meaningfully only to provide rhetorical cover for the abortion ban while in practice doctors and hospitals have been chilled against using them.

Such is presently the case in Louisiana (as you may have heard), where a woman is effectively being forced to carry a fetus without a head to term because the exact condition of "acrania" - though incompatible with life - is not on the specific list of named incompatible-with-life conditions for which abortions are legally allowed under the state's new law.

The Atheist 22nd August 2022 03:17 AM

Quote:

Michigan’s Republican gubernatorial nominee said she does not support abortion being legal even for child rape victims, suggesting that having the baby could be “healing.”
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/tudor...b035629bfb84f4

Can we DNA test things that make that kind of statement to see if they're actually human?

kookbreaker 22nd August 2022 05:30 AM

To the surprise of only a few, the Kansas recount of their anti-abortion amendment vote came up with pretty much the same result. The frothing right-wingers are now trying to get out of paying since in their mind paying for a recount means they get the results they wanted.

https://apnews.com/article/abortion-...3b24580ad7ea0c

Segnosaur 22nd August 2022 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kookbreaker (Post 13883249)
To the surprise of only a few, the Kansas recount of their anti-abortion amendment vote came up with pretty much the same result. The frothing right-wingers are now trying to get out of paying since in their mind paying for a recount means they get the results they wanted.

https://apnews.com/article/abortion-...3b24580ad7ea0c

Your referenced article also states:

Gietzen said he won’t publicly report the names of private donors helping him finance the recount, even though a state ethics official says it’s required.

So it seems like the forced birthers believe the rules don't apply to them.

Beelzebuddy 22nd August 2022 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segnosaur (Post 13883266)
So it seems like the forced birthers believe the rules don't apply to them.

They're more like guidelines.

autumn1971 22nd August 2022 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13881156)
There is literally nothing to suggest that. The whole foundation of the talking point is the cruelty of abortion. I mean, it is amazing that some liberals can talk about how "cruel" pro-life advocates are, when unborn humans are literally being vacuumed (or worse) out of wombs...in numbers over half a million (US), annually.

Mind-blowing.

Every time you wash your socks you are slaughtering more potential lives than Mao could even dream of

autumn1971 22nd August 2022 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eerok (Post 13881621)
I think the goal was to create outrage that the GOP could turn into votes, but now the dog has caught the car, and what will it do with it? I don't think the forced-pregnancy laws they're trying to pass will turn out well for them, because abortion is too fundamentally a human right, and there's not much support for trying to ban it.

I think it once was just a cynical attempt to garner votes. That has, over the past twenty years, become the quiet bit; the Right wants total control over all the proles, and they are getting damn near that goal. No rich woman is ever going to be denied an abortion in the US, it’s only the underclass women.
Note to most Republicans: you are also the underclass. You are looked down upon by your masters as the slaves you have willingly become.

cosmicaug 1st September 2022 11:44 AM

They've learned their lesson from Kansas.

https://apnews.com/article/abortion-2022-midterm-elections-us-supreme-court-health-michigan-4888105cd9fe270786420c150e18c8b3:
Quote:

Michigan election board rejects abortion rights initiative
By JOEY CAPPELLETTI and SARA BURNETT

LANSING, Mich. (AP) — A Michigan elections board on Wednesday rejected an abortion rights initiative after its two Republican board members voted against putting the proposed constitutional amendment on the November ballot.


The two Democrats on the Board of State Canvassers voted in favor, but getting the measure on the ballot required at least three votes of the four-member board. The Reproductive Freedom for All campaign, which gathered signatures to get the measure on the ballot, is expected to appeal to the Democratic-leaning Michigan Supreme Court in the coming days and expressed confidence it would prevail.


The board’s administrative and clerical work on elections was once carried out in obscurity, but it drew national attention in 2020 when Donald Trump pressured Republican members not to certify Joe Biden’s electoral win in the state. Its partisan split was evident on another issue Wednesday, when it deadlocked 2-2 on a measure to expand voting, with Democrats for it and Republicans against.


Abortion rights have become a powerful motivator for voters since Roe was overturned. In conservative Kansas, voters overwhelmingly defeated a ballot measure that would have allowed the Republican-controlled Legislature to tighten restrictions or ban the procedure outright, and the issue has swayed votes in special elections for Congress, including in a battleground district in upstate New York. Nationally, Democrats have seen an increase in fundraising since the Supreme Court decision.


The proposed constitutional amendment aims to negate a 91-year-old state law that would ban abortion in all instances except to save the life of the mother. The meeting drew hundreds of people, who packed the hearing room and overflow rooms for a chance to comment. Abortion opponents also protested outside.


Michigan’s 1931 law — which abortion opponents had hoped would be triggered by a conservative majority on the U.S. Supreme Court overturning Roe vs. Wade in June — remains blocked after months of court battles. A state judge ruled Aug. 19 that Republican county prosecutors couldn’t enforce the ban, saying it was “in the public’s best interest to let the people of the great state of Michigan decide this matter at the ballot box.”

[...]

thaiboxerken 1st September 2022 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmicaug (Post 13891288)

They sure did. They won't let democracy get in the way of their plans this time.

Upchurch 1st September 2022 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken (Post 13891290)
They sure did. They won't let democracy get in the way of their plans this time.

Maybe not ever again. We shall see.

Aridas 1st September 2022 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Upchurch (Post 13891344)
Maybe not ever again. We shall see.

That depends a bit on how much say they actually get. Also, I think I saw that an expedited ruling request was being filed to a higher court to force that said initiative go on the ballot. In part because the support for it going onto the ballot was greater than any other ballot initiative in that state in the past?

Leumas 6th September 2022 12:45 AM

This lecture explains it all...
 
The facts stated in this lecture are irrefutable... but nothing new... this has been going on for decades now.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

Stacyhs 6th September 2022 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leumas (Post 13894598)
The facts stated in this lecture are irrefutable... but nothing new... this has been going on for decades now.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

cosmicaug 6th September 2022 12:38 PM

https://twitter.com/lawindsor/status/1567223485755232262:

Quote:

Me: “If we vote you into the House, you’re going to vote for a national [abortion] ban..?
GOP House Candidate Rich McCormick: “..I’m a big believer in states’ rights...
Me: “When Republicans win back the House—
RM: “If we have an opportunity to pass something like that, I will.”
It's hard to tell if he's consciously noting a contradiction (I usually believe in this but...) or if he can't even tell that there is one.

bruto 6th September 2022 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmicaug (Post 13895085)
https://twitter.com/lawindsor/status/1567223485755232262:



It's hard to tell if he's consciously noting a contradiction (I usually believe in this but...) or if he can't even tell that there is one.

Just a matter of spin. States' rights means I want the right for my state to tell your state what to do.

Leumas 6th September 2022 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmicaug (Post 13895085)
https://twitter.com/lawindsor/status/1567223485755232262:



It's hard to tell if he's consciously noting a contradiction (I usually believe in this but...) or if he can't even tell that there is one.


Whether deliberately or obliviously, perfidy and hypocrisy are the modus operandi of the religious... how else can they maintain their irrational faiths in 2022.

catsmate 8th September 2022 01:49 AM

The religious control of healthcare worsens.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62827615

Stacyhs 8th September 2022 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catsmate (Post 13896392)
The religious control of healthcare worsens.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62827615

This will be appealed, likely all the way to the SC. You can bet on it. But then again, with the SC we have.........

This is just another example of the way the Christian Right is trying to force their morality on others.

ponderingturtle 8th September 2022 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catsmate (Post 13896392)
The religious control of healthcare worsens.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62827615

Christians always did like aids. Good to see they are for its continued spread.

cosmicaug 8th September 2022 07:24 AM

Not because of Roe vs. Wade overturn but more of the same:
https://www.al.com/news/2022/09/pregnant-women-held-for-months-in-one-alabama-jail-to-protect-fetuses-from-drugs.html

Quote:

Police arrested Ashley Banks on May 25 with a small amount of marijuana and a pistol without a permit to carry.

Under normal circumstances, the 23-year-old from Gadsden would have been able to post bond and leave jail until her criminal trial. But Banks admitted to smoking pot on the same day she found out she was pregnant – two days before her arrest. In Etowah County, that meant she couldn’t leave jail unless she entered drug rehab, leaving her in limbo for three months.

She’s not the only one, according to attorneys involved in her case. Several pregnant women and new moms accused of exposing their fetuses to drugs have been held for weeks or months inside the Etowah County Detention Center under special bond conditions that require rehab and $10,000 cash.

Attorneys with National Advocates for Pregnant Women, an organization that opposes laws that criminalize pregnancy, say it’s unfair to impose special conditions on pregnant women who haven’t been convicted of any crimes.

As a result of the policy, the Etowah County Detention Center often holds several pregnant and postpartum women in the jail, against the advice of experts on maternal and fetal health. Dr. Carolyn Sufrin, an OB/GYN and expert on incarceration and pregnancy at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, wrote an affidavit urging the court to release Banks.

“The stress and conditions in jail and prisons, including lack of consistent access to standard prenatal care and mental health care, poor diets, poor sanitation, infestations with bugs and vermin, poor ventilation, tension, noise, lack of privacy, lack of family and community contact, can be detrimental to physical and mental health which can result in poor pregnancy outcomes for both the mother and the baby,” Sufrin wrote.

Banks has a high-risk pregnancy due to a family history of miscarriage. She said she was jailed at around six weeks of pregnancy. About six weeks into her incarceration, she started bleeding and was taken to Gadsden Regional Medical Center, according to court documents. Doctors diagnosed her with a subchorionic hematoma, a condition where blood pools near the wall of the uterus.

The condition increases the chances of miscarriage and preterm delivery, according to the Cleveland Clinic. Banks said jail officials told her she could sleep on the bottom bunk because of her high-risk pregnancy. However, her cell had one bottom bunk and two women assigned to sleep in it. So, the other woman used the bed, according to court documents, and Banks slept on the floor.

She continued to bleed for five weeks in jail. She said she also suffered from hunger and fainting spells. Two times, specialists evaluated her for drug addiction and found she didn’t qualify for free addiction services offered through the state. Her lawyers said investigators then urged Banks to say she had a drug addiction she did not have to bond out.

“Ms. Banks is currently incarcerated indefinitely because the State will not accept her $10,000.00 cash bail and she does not qualify for a residential drug treatment,” her petition said.

Since her bond conditions required rehab, and since rehab wouldn’t take her, she continued sleeping on a jailhouse floor until Aug. 25, when an Etowah County judge released her to community corrections.
She can't be released because she must do rehab; but she can't do rehab because (it appears that) the facility doesn't really think she's an addict and doesn't qualify for the admission criteria. As a result, she gets to bleed on her jail cell floor instead of receiving proper medical care.

d4m10n 8th September 2022 08:01 AM

States rights?
 
How it started:

https://twitter.com/RepJackBergman/s...47859626856450
Quote:

The ruling today on Roe properly returns power to the states and ends decades of bad precedent.
https://emmer.house.gov/2022/6/emmer...t-on-dobbs-v-j
Quote:

Every life is precious, and the decision to defend it should remain with the states.
https://buck.house.gov/media-center/...sal-roe-v-wade
Quote:

The power to decide this profound moral question has officially returned to the states, where it will be debated and settled in the way it should be in our democratic society—by the people.

How it's going:

These Republicans cheered abortion policy going to states. They are also sponsoring a federal ban.

I suppose states' rights are fine until the people exercise those rights to buck the ruling party.

Gulliver Foyle 8th September 2022 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13896403)
This will be appealed, likely all the way to the SC. You can bet on it. But then again, with the SC we have.........

This is just another example of the way the Christian Right is trying to force their morality on others.

What morality? All they have is hate, hence why they want HIV and AIDS victims to die in agony, and women to carry unviable foetuses inside them.

Stacyhs 8th September 2022 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmicaug (Post 13896675)
Not because of Roe vs. Wade overturn but more of the same:
https://www.al.com/news/2022/09/pregnant-women-held-for-months-in-one-alabama-jail-to-protect-fetuses-from-drugs.html



She can't be released because she must do rehab; but she can't do rehab because (it appears that) the facility doesn't really think she's an addict and doesn't qualify for the admission criteria. As a result, she gets to bleed on her jail cell floor instead of receiving proper medical care.

But think about the poor baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...a4656116e3.jpg

cosmicaug 8th September 2022 02:04 PM

They are all constitutional conservatives, states rights conservatives, law & order conservatives, pious conservatives, etc.... until they aren't.

Aridas 8th September 2022 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmicaug (Post 13897155)
They are all constitutional conservatives, states rights conservatives, law & order conservatives, pious conservatives, etc.... until they aren't.

And I think that most of us would be completely unsurprised to know that all that was nothing more than dog whistling and virtue signalling, rather than having anything to do with the claimed principles. From the propagators, at least.

Leumas 9th September 2022 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmicaug (Post 13897155)
They are all constitutional conservatives, states rights conservatives, law & order conservatives, pious conservatives, etc.... until they aren't.

it all depends on how it serves their agenda of Christian Nationalism and converting this country into a christian theocracy.... and they are not coy anymore about declaring it outright in the open for all to see...

Watch the whole video carefully ... with extra attention @minutes 8:25-9:15... and also @0:35 to 1:00... and @1:33 to 3:15

These are not just any run of the mill kooks... these are congress people and people in the highest echelons of power in this country.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

pgwenthold 9th September 2022 12:16 PM

The weirdest thing I have heard about this is how the ruling took the decision out of the federal government and put it in the hands of the states.

Which is weird, because the federal government didn't have abortion laws, and RvW put the decision (largely) into the hands of the woman. The Federal Government did not say that anyone had to get an abortion or anything.

So they are all boasting about how this is a win for states' rights, but the loser is not the federal government, it's women. They took the decision away from the individual person and gave it to the state.

And somehow this is supposed to be some conservative victory.


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