International Skeptics Forum

International Skeptics Forum (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/forumindex.php)
-   Non-USA & General Politics (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=98)
-   -   General UK politics (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=346868)

The Don 28th January 2022 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13715717)
The problem here is straightforward. The Govt and The Met are fundamentally untrustworthy. They will collaborate at the highest level to ensure the best possible outcome for themselves

How would a factual civil service report about events the police is investigating "prejudice" their investigation?

IMO the issue we have is one of fundamentally not understanding the purpose of the Gray inquiry.

We think it's to investigate the various parties that are alleged to have taken place at various locations during various lockdowns and to identify if there were any breaches of the law, lockdown rules and ministerial code.

As Sue Gray understands it IMO, the purpose of the report is to assuage public anger over "Partygate" by giving the impression that a thorough investigation is being carried out whilst keeping the terms of the investigation and scope of the investigation narrow enough to ensure that no-one of consequence needs to be held to account. :mad:

The Met is only involved because they've determined that inaction is more damaging than carrying out an investigation but they too will do their best not to find anything of consequence because it will justify their decision not to investigate in the first place - "See we told you we didn't need to investigate, as you can see we've wasted time, manpower and money investigating these baseless claims" :rolleyes:

Captain_Swoop 28th January 2022 03:17 AM

It’s misleading to say the National Insurance rise is only 1.25%
NI will rise from 9% to 10.25% … this means that on a £10k earning you will pay £1025 rather than £900

That means that your NÍ bill has gone up by 14%

Captain_Swoop 28th January 2022 03:22 AM

Operation Save Greased Weasel is in full force.

Ian Osborne 28th January 2022 03:26 AM

I wonder what the odds are of the unredacted Sue Gray report being leaked? Surely there must be a Clive Ponting in Whitehall somewhere?

Captain_Swoop 28th January 2022 03:26 AM

You realise we'll have to put up with Tory MP sycophants 'explaining' how policing works today?

Carrot Flower King 28th January 2022 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13715718)
Well the Met have played an absolute blinder for the government there. ;)

Cressida Dick earning her contract renewal?

jimbob 28th January 2022 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian Osborne (Post 13715728)
I wonder what the odds are of the unredacted Sue Gray report being leaked? Surely there must be a Clive Ponting in Whitehall somewhere?

Sarah Vine's ex-husband?

After all, it looks as though Sunak has been caught as well - with his inadvertent attendance of a party.

Darat 28th January 2022 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan (Post 13715449)
Which is actually something of a fair point. Boris Johnson is a nasty, racist, manipulative liar and a buffoon, but he didn't magically appear as leader of the country. The small minded little-Englanders elected his party, and by extension him.

I miss Cameron. I didn't like him one bit but at least he wasn't...this.

Main two differences are that Cameron is not as thick as two planks and has a tiny ember of personal shame remaining.

zooterkin 28th January 2022 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan (Post 13715449)
Which is actually something of a fair point. Boris Johnson is a nasty, racist, manipulative liar and a buffoon, but he didn't magically appear as leader of the country. The small minded little-Englanders elected his party, and by extension him.

I miss Cameron. I didn't like him one bit but at least he wasn't...this.

I've seen people elsewhere comment that he's a politician and what do you expect? But in my lifetime I don't recall any politician, let alone a Prime Minister, who has so shamelessly lied, and lied, and lied, as well as being so incompetent and purely interested in holding office for the sake of it and at any cost.

ETA: I should qualify that statement with "in the UK".

jimbob 28th January 2022 07:10 AM

But what would a former chief prosecutor know about criminal investigations

Quote:

nazir afzal
@nazirafzal
Normal
12%
This is absolute nonsense from the Met Police
A purely factual report by Sue Gray cannot possibly prejudice a police investigation
They just have to follow the evidence, of which the report will be a part

https://twitter.com/nazirafzal/statu...m4NpK3BitUCqjg
Quote:

Replying to
@nazirafzal
I have had a lot of “requests” in my lifetime & I only sing along when it might be appreciated
The police can “request” whatever they like but we don’t have to sing along
It has no legal force
I “requested” they investigate ages ago and they ignored me too

GlennB 28th January 2022 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King (Post 13715733)
Cressida Dick earning her contract renewal?

I see that she's 61 now, so maybe another term with The Met and then a cosy spot in The Lords?

Darat 28th January 2022 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlennB (Post 13715916)
I see that she's 61 now, so maybe another term with The Met and then a cosy spot in The Lords?

I always smile when they mention her in radio and TV, always careful to use her full name, rather than just "Commissioner Dick". No idea why.

MarkCorrigan 28th January 2022 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zooterkin (Post 13715775)
I've seen people elsewhere comment that he's a politician and what do you expect? But in my lifetime I don't recall any politician, let alone a Prime Minister, who has so shamelessly lied, and lied, and lied, as well as being so incompetent and purely interested in holding office for the sake of it and at any cost.

ETA: I should qualify that statement with "in the UK".

Thing is though while all politicians are bound to either lie or have to walk back promises either way, the sheer scope of BoJo's being a ****-up was plain even before he became PM. His ridiculous bollocks-bus during the Brexit fiasco for instance.

The fact is though little Englanders like that he's a slimy bastard, or at least don't care because he echoes their prejudices and that's enough for them and this country is riddled with them.

MarkCorrigan 28th January 2022 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13715948)
I always smile when they mention her in radio and TV, always careful to use her full name, rather than just "Commissioner Dick". No idea why.

Dick by name...

jimbob 28th January 2022 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan (Post 13716013)
Thing is though while all politicians are bound to either lie or have to walk back promises either way, the sheer scope of BoJo's being a ****-up was plain even before he became PM. His ridiculous bollocks-bus during the Brexit fiasco for instance.

The fact is though little Englanders like that he's a slimy bastard, or at least don't care because he echoes their prejudices and that's enough for them and this country is riddled with them.

I think they don't anymore. I have a twitter alt that follows and reports antivaxers and that feed is even more against Johnson than my normal one.

wobs 28th January 2022 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbob (Post 13716025)
I think they don't anymore. I have a twitter alt that follows and reports antivaxers and that feed is even more against Johnson than my normal one.

My local Look North news recently read out some emails from viewers with comments like:
"He's the best PM since Churchill"
"He's had such a lot to deal with, I thinl he's donea great job".

GlennB 28th January 2022 03:29 PM

It seems we'll get a redacted version of the Gray report pretty soon. Then weeks or months or years will pass before the full version is released.

(Any cynicism in this post is strictly coincidental and not intended to portray the current reality of politics in the UK :rolleyes:)

MarkCorrigan 28th January 2022 04:50 PM

Tory sleaze rears its head again, only this time the Met are colluding with them.

Captain_Swoop 29th January 2022 03:35 AM

Ukraine: Boris Johnson to call Vladimir Putin and visit region

Boris Johnson will telephone Russian President Vladimir Putin and visit Eastern Europe in the coming days as the UK steps up its diplomatic efforts to resolve the Ukraine border crisis.
No 10 said the PM would repeat the need for Russia to "engage diplomatically" when he spoke to Mr Putin this week.

He would "reiterate the need for Russia to step back", No 10 added.
Mr Johnson has said the UK could deploy troops to protect NATO allies if Russia invaded Ukraine. However, Ukraine is not part of NATO and Russia wants the West to promise it will never join the military alliance, seeing it as a direct threat to its security.

As well as Mr Johnson's visit to the region, Foreign Secretary Liz Truss will visit Moscow in the next two weeks, the Russian Embassy in the UK said.
Mr Johnson has asked military and security chiefs to give him more options to mitigate against what Downing Street has called "growing Russian aggression".

This weekend, the prime minister is considering those options - including the deployment of more British troops to NATO countries in the region.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60179127

Send more troops to help NATO allies?
I bet he wishes the Tories hadn't cut the infantry by almost 20% over the last few years.

Darat 29th January 2022 04:05 AM

Sue Grey - oh that’s last week’s news. How can Labour keep going on about a glass of wine at the office when Starma was seen drinking a beer in the office and Johnson is trying to deal with a possible Russian invasion*.




*Not the invasion of London - that one is fine

Captain_Swoop 29th January 2022 04:30 AM

Cressida Dick is not new to obstruction
In June last year an inquiry into police corruption over the Daniel Morgan murder:
“blamed Dick personally for obstructing access to documents the panel thought vital”

3 months later Priti Patel extended her contract by 2 years

KDLarsen 29th January 2022 04:32 AM

The Gray report is worthless anyway, as one of the Tories inadvertently admitted when the Met opened their investigation, noting that officials were more likely to be forthcoming when speaking to the police than to Gray.

Captain_Swoop 29th January 2022 06:23 AM

Memorial Device tweeted
@memorialdevice
·
3h
The state cannot be trusted to investigate itself. Hillsborough. Orgreave. The Pat Finucane case etc. The truth about Bloody Sunday took 40 YEARS to emerge. Hide behind a bogus 'official investigation' and ride-out the outrage. The incumbent administration survives.

If the public campaigning is relentless enough, the truth MAY emerge years later. But the political fallout will then be zero. Nobody is ever held to account. A shrug of the shoulders and a 'we will learn from it'. They do learn from it. They learn to do it again.

Carrot Flower King 29th January 2022 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13716626)
Memorial Device tweeted
@memorialdevice
·
3h
The state cannot be trusted to investigate itself. Hillsborough. Orgreave. The Pat Finucane case etc. The truth about Bloody Sunday took 40 YEARS to emerge. Hide behind a bogus 'official investigation' and ride-out the outrage. The incumbent administration survives.

If the public campaigning is relentless enough, the truth MAY emerge years later. But the political fallout will then be zero. Nobody is ever held to account. A shrug of the shoulders and a 'we will learn from it'. They do learn from it. They learn to do it again.

Yes, Minister/Prime Minister was a documentary...Sir Humphrey lives on.

catsmate 29th January 2022 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wobs (Post 13716076)
My local Look North news recently read out some emails from viewers with comments like:
"He's the best PM since Churchill"
"He's had such a lot to deal with, I thinl he's donea great job".

Damned with faint praise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13716543)
Ukraine: Boris Johnson to call Vladimir Putin and visit region

Boris Johnson will telephone Russian President Vladimir Putin and visit Eastern Europe in the coming days as the UK steps up its diplomatic efforts to resolve the Ukraine border crisis.
No 10 said the PM would repeat the need for Russia to "engage diplomatically" when he spoke to Mr Putin this week.

He would "reiterate the need for Russia to step back", No 10 added.
Mr Johnson has said the UK could deploy troops to protect NATO allies if Russia invaded Ukraine. However, Ukraine is not part of NATO and Russia wants the West to promise it will never join the military alliance, seeing it as a direct threat to its security.

As well as Mr Johnson's visit to the region, Foreign Secretary Liz Truss will visit Moscow in the next two weeks, the Russian Embassy in the UK said.
Mr Johnson has asked military and security chiefs to give him more options to mitigate against what Downing Street has called "growing Russian aggression".

This weekend, the prime minister is considering those options - including the deployment of more British troops to NATO countries in the region.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60179127

Send more troops to help NATO allies?
I bet he wishes the Tories hadn't cut the infantry by almost 20% over the last few years.

"What this country needs is a short, victorious war to stem the tide of revolution."

P.J. Denyer 29th January 2022 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13716565)
Sue Grey - oh that’s last week’s news. How can Labour keep going on about a glass of wine at the office when Starma was seen drinking a beer in the office and Johnson is trying to deal with a possible Russian invasion*.




*Not the invasion of London - that one is fine


Their incursion into the House of Lords & corporate takeover of Tory Central Office don't seem to have caused much of a stir either.

Captain_Swoop 29th January 2022 11:43 AM

David Schneider tweeted
@davidschneider
·
3h
Maybe if you’re Rishi Sunak and your wife’s richer than the Queen, it doesn’t seem that big a deal to write off £4.3bn in fraud even in a country with more food banks than McDonalds.

Captain_Swoop 29th January 2022 01:25 PM

Memorial Device tweeted
@memorialdevice
·
8 hours after our tweet: ‘we must learn from the past’
Quote Tweet
Boris Johnson
@BorisJohnson
United Kingdom government official
· 2h
Tomorrow marks a tragic day in our history, the 50th anniversary of Bloody Sunday. This was one of the darkest days of the Troubles. We must learn from the past, reconcile, and build a peaceful future for people in Northern Ireland.

Carrot Flower King 30th January 2022 04:52 AM

Of course BlowJob did nothing, absolutely nothing I tell you, wrong or potentially criminal when he was shagging Jennifer Arcuri (who was he married to at the time?)...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-boris-johnson

Darat 30th January 2022 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King (Post 13717487)
Of course BlowJob did nothing, absolutely nothing I tell you, wrong or potentially criminal when he was shagging Jennifer Arcuri (who was he married to at the time?)...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-boris-johnson

Sue Gray will have to look into that as Johnson of course can't remember.

ohms 30th January 2022 07:05 AM

Our Foreign Secretary said today that the UK will offer extra support "into our [b]Baltic/[b] allies across the Black Sea".

https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/stat...29051271843842

Good to see that she's maintaining the recent tradition of being unencumbered by knowledge.

jimbob 30th January 2022 10:44 AM

https://twitter.com/annietrev/status...63659212869637

Quote:

Anne-Marie Trevelyan
@annietrev
Normal
1%
Excited to start negotiations with Greenland on a continuity Free Trade Agreement.
A ���� ���� FTA could reduce tariffs on fish & seafood imports from Greenland, supporting key businesses like supermarkets & hospitality & catering firms
Trade = growth = jobs

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/s...nd-trade-talks

Yes you read that correctly.

Quote:

Background:
In 2020, total UK trade with Greenland amounted to £10 million, and DIT estimates that a further £49 million of coldwater shrimp coming into the UK predominantly originated from Greenland that same year.
A country with about half the population of a UK Parliamentary constituency.

jimbob 30th January 2022 10:46 AM

Meanwhile to offset this, I make it that since Thursday we have found that the government has wasted £7Bn.

£4.3Bn in fraudulent Covid loans written off
£2.7Bn in PPE purchased that needs to be written off.

P.J. Denyer 30th January 2022 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13716886)
David Schneider tweeted
@davidschneider
·
3h
Maybe if you’re Rishi Sunak and your wife’s richer than the Queen, it doesn’t seem that big a deal to write off £4.3bn in fraud even in a country with more food banks than McDonalds.

Rishi Rich has lost more than that down the back of the sofa.

P.J. Denyer 30th January 2022 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbob (Post 13717726)
Meanwhile to offset this, I make it that since Thursday we have found that the government has wasted £7Bn.

£4.3Bn in fraudulent Covid loans written off
£2.7Bn in PPE purchased that needs to be written off.

"The Party of Fiscal Responsibility"...

Carrot Flower King 30th January 2022 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbob (Post 13717724)
https://twitter.com/annietrev/status...63659212869637



Yes you read that correctly.



A country with about half the population of a UK Parliamentary constituency.

She's my sodding MP: even going back to when she was the Tory PPC I reckoned she was a talent-free zone (part of my calling her Tory Girl goes back to those times, as her blether was soooooo reminiscent of Harry Enfield's Hague spoof), but that hasn't stopped some of the eejits round here voting for her.

Captain_Swoop 30th January 2022 01:01 PM

Sky News - Trevor Phillips On Sunday

Phillips - Everybody is going to be hit with a 10% increase in National Insurance... 6 weeks shopping, then a £600 increase in energy prices, 12 weeks shopping, where are people going to find that money from?

Liz Truss - We have the fastest growing economy in the G7.

Captain_Swoop 30th January 2022 01:03 PM

Also it's a lie. In the last quarter of 2021 UK economic growth was 5th not 1st.

Captain_Swoop 30th January 2022 02:18 PM

David Schneider tweeted
@davidschneider
Good to hear that the Tories are going to clamp down on Russian money. Perhaps they could start with the £1.9m given to Tories since Boris Johnson became Prime Minister.

Captain_Swoop 31st January 2022 06:21 AM

Boris Johnson now has the redacted Sue Gray report into No 10 parties.

Cabinet Office spokesperson: "We can confirm that Sue Gray has provided an update on her investigations to the Prime Minister."


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:42 PM.

Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2015-22, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.