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-   -   Senator Al Franken Kissed and Groped Me Without My Consent, And There’s Nothing Funny (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=324808)

Brainster 16th November 2017 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 12079102)
And I don't like the guy, but Pence's policy of not being alone with a women other then his wife seems to have been a smart move on his part....

Although I'm sure that the feminists will disagree, noting that this effectively limits access to him for women, but not for men.

As a digression, years ago I lived in an apartment complex, and a mother and her young (7-8 years old) daughter were in a nearby unit. The daughter was always asking if she could come in my apartment and play with my cat. I always said no, but one day I let her come in, because the property manager was in the unit at the time. When her mother came looking for her, I think she was initially taken aback that I had let her daughter inside, but then she saw the property manager and said something like, "Oh, he's here."

The Big Dog 16th November 2017 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTC8K6 (Post 12079152)
Broad?

Attacking her already? :)

The second accuser? Yep, 17 years ago Al Franken called her to argue about governmental budget/spending three times! Horror.

:rolleyes:

ponderingturtle 16th November 2017 01:44 PM

Any bets on if trump will mention Franken but ignore Moore?

LTC8K6 16th November 2017 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Dog (Post 12079166)
The second accuser? Yep, 17 years ago Al Franken called her to argue about governmental budget/spending three times! Horror.

:rolleyes:

Intimidating a woman like that is certainly very bad behavior on Franken's part.

LTC8K6 16th November 2017 01:51 PM

Maybe we can just have a wholesale Congress exchange, and get a whole new one?

autumn1971 16th November 2017 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 12079087)
Franken shoud announce his retirement after his current term ends at a minimum.
First person who tries to let Franken off the hook because he is on "Our" side I will treat just like I treat the idiots who are supporting Moore. Granted, what Moore did was worse then what Franken did ,but that is no excuse.

This.

Beelzebuddy 16th November 2017 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle (Post 12079015)
Then we should kick out everyone who had one of those payments made to keep sexual assault in the house quiet. If we did it might well do interesting things to the political landscape.

Why is everyone ignoring this? Congress is spending over a million dollars a year to settle their own sexual harassment claims. They have a dedicated account just for it. It's budgeted.

No one in Congress has a right to budget hush money for their own alleged crimes. Let's unseal this bastard and let the chips fall.

xjx388 16th November 2017 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy (Post 12079193)
Why is everyone ignoring this? Congress is spending over a million dollars a year to settle their own sexual harassment claims. They have a dedicated account just for it. It's budgeted.

No one in Congress has a right to budget hush money for their own alleged crimes. Let's unseal this bastard and let the chips fall.

Absolutely. I can't believe this is actually a thing. Someone should FOIA that department. . .

The Big Dog 16th November 2017 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xjx388 (Post 12079198)
Absolutely. I can't believe this is actually a thing. Someone should FOIA that department. . .

Congress is exempt from FOIA.

autumn1971 16th November 2017 02:19 PM

Any party offering an NDA that even inches near covering potential criminal activity should be prosecuted as a blackmailer. It is sickening that people can be pressured to give up civil rights and courts go along with it.

Stacko 16th November 2017 02:23 PM

This is a twist:

Roger Stone appeared to know Franken allegation was coming.

Quote:

Former Trump campaign adviser Roger Stone appeared to know there were sexual misconduct allegations involving Sen. Al Franken (D-Minn.) hours before they became public.

Stone has been banned from Twitter, but at 1 a.m. on Thursday morning an account connected to him tweeted a quote from the Republican political operative.

"Roger Stone says it's Al Franken's 'time in the barrel'. Franken next in long list of Democrats to be accused of 'grabby' behavior," read the tweet from Enter the Stone Zone.
It better not turn out that she's working with that rat****er. That's just the kind of thing that would discredit her.

PhantomWolf 16th November 2017 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTC8K6 (Post 12078689)
Time to start expelling anyone who has any such events in their past?

Yes, starting with the grabber-in-chief! Men need to see that this sort of behaviour is unacceptable regardless of their political affiliations or their position. Forcing themselves on a woman is just not acceptable behaviour, it is taking away her rights and making her nothing more then a thing to be used for a man's pleasure. It doesn't matter if it's meant to be a joke or not, it's wrong, it's unacceptable, and society need to make a stand and show that it's no longer going to be considered acceptable behaviour by removing those that are considered leaders and role models and have abused that position to take power over women (or other men).

Beelzebuddy 16th November 2017 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacko (Post 12079221)
It better not turn out that she's working with that rat****er. That's just the kind of thing that would discredit her.

Counter-accusations in the last leg of Moore's election run, just in time for people to bring up in Thanksgiving arguments? Surely it must have crossed your mind.

Skeptic Ginger 16th November 2017 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike! (Post 12078701)

Yeah, just saw it and the woman is going on and on about being angry "for over 10 years".

I'll still wait to hear if this is a pattern or one person. Joking about putting your hands on breasts, I'm just not that upset about the joke. He's a comedian, they were on a comedy tour. If guys took a joke picture like that no one would think twice.

This is back to elevatorgate where every little thing is some horrible objectification of women. Franken's apology is pretty thorough. The accuser is claiming the apology was possibly put out hastily by a staffer. That's bull ****.

If on the other hand, a number of women come out and report a pattern of behavior I'll reconsider.


And by the way, this sadly serves to lessen the real complaints.

Skeptic Ginger 16th November 2017 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy (Post 12079193)
Why is everyone ignoring this? Congress is spending over a million dollars a year to settle their own sexual harassment claims. They have a dedicated account just for it. It's budgeted.

No one in Congress has a right to budget hush money for their own alleged crimes. Let's unseal this bastard and let the chips fall.

Now this is something to be upset about. I don't think it's being ignored.

autumn1971 16th November 2017 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacko (Post 12079221)
This is a twist:

Roger Stone appeared to know Franken allegation was coming.



It better not turn out that she's working with that rat****er. That's just the kind of thing that would discredit her.

I stand by the idea that the picture alone is enough to at least keep him from seeking another term.
I'm as left as they come, but to be elected to national office should have higher standards than Americans have traditionally accepted.

Skeptic Ginger 16th November 2017 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle (Post 12079169)
Any bets on if trump will mention Franken but ignore Moore?

I'll take the 'yes he will' side of that bet.

Skeptic Ginger 16th November 2017 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 12078717)
...
The photograph, I would say it is all in the context, what was the relationship like between them or the perceived relationship like and so on.

(By the way it looks to me as if one hand is not touching her - the other hand appearing to touch could also be an effect of the foreshortening).

It's also clearly just a joke, not groping.

JoeMorgue 16th November 2017 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoahFence (Post 12078932)
Unfortunately people like Franken will get caught up in it. But can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.

Why is Franken an egg and not the omelette in this metaphor?

John Jones 16th November 2017 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fudbucker (Post 12079022)
Personally, I think we should just let women run the show. We men have messed things up royally, and apparently in positions of power, many of us turn into disgusting horndogs.

Registered women voters, and actual women voters outnumber men in the USA. if they wanted a all-woman government, we'd have one.

And thanks for reminding me why I normally don't respond to your comments.

Skeptic Ginger 16th November 2017 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle (Post 12078718)
It was in a skit, but not consensual.

The woman is on going on and on about it now on Jake Tapper. Like I said, I'll wait to see if this is a pattern or one disgruntled actor.

JoeMorgue 16th November 2017 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy (Post 12079193)
Why is everyone ignoring this? Congress is spending over a million dollars a year to settle their own sexual harassment claims. They have a dedicated account just for it. It's budgeted.

Because both sides are doing it. So you can't hang "LOOKIT AT WHAT THE DEMOCRATS ARE DOING or LOOKIT AT WHAT THE REPUBLICANS ARE DOING!" anywhere on it, ergo no political points, ergo no point.

Stacko 16th November 2017 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by autumn1971 (Post 12079240)
I stand by the idea that the picture alone is enough to at least keep him from seeking another term.
I'm as left as they come, but to be elected to national office should have higher standards than Americans have traditionally accepted.

Not enough people hold that standard. He could get an undeserving pass on just the picture. It was "locker room behavior" and away he skates. The most damaging part though is that it would discredit future claims because of her involvement with Stone.

The Big Dog 16th November 2017 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 12079230)
Yeah, just saw it and the woman is going on and on about being angry "for over 10 years".

I'll still wait to hear if this is a pattern or one person....

If on the other hand, a number of women come out and report a pattern of behavior I'll reconsider.

And by the way, this sadly serves to lessen the real complaints.

wow. I thought every sexual assault survivor had “the right to be believed."

As long as it is a pattern, and until then? This ain't a "real complaint."

let us know if the "the woman" gets some back up, until then? Not a real complaint.

Holee *********** smokes......

The Big Dog 16th November 2017 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 12079250)
The woman is on going on and on about it now on Jake Tapper. Like I said, I'll wait to see if this is a pattern or one disgruntled actor.

"the woman's" name is Leeann Tweeden.

Damn....

PhantomWolf 16th November 2017 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 12079246)
It's also clearly just a joke, not groping.

While I agree that it was clearly meant to be a joke, after all she is wearing a flack jacket so it's not really even possible to grope her, to me that doesn't matter. The fact is that he degraded her by his actions, treated her not as a human being, but a toy to be played with and jested about. That behaviour is unacceptable in someone that aspires to be a leader and a role model. This is one area were I believe that we need to have zero tolerance.

Skeptic Ginger 16th November 2017 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTC8K6 (Post 12078724)
Pretending to grab her boobs while she is asleep, and taking a photo of the act, is sexual harassment, imo.

Yeah, like asking a woman if she wants to come to your room on an elevator.

I'm not finding this woman to be all that assaulted. OMG, Tapper is asking her how she's holding up. Now she's in tears.

She's been pissed about it for '10 years' according to her.

Show me a pattern. If not, there is a point of taking accusations of sexual assault too far. We had this discussion over elevatorgate. Caused Linda (fls) to leave the forum. Included the divided camps of PZ vs Dr Hall.

Making a joke that has sexual innuendo on a USO tour? The audience is soldiers on duty for crying out loud.

I don't know what to make of the skit rehearsal. Clearly the woman has issues, Franken apologized. The only place to take this depends on if it turns out it's a pattern and I have a hard time with that given how much I know about Franken's work for women's rights.

Skeptic Ginger 16th November 2017 02:47 PM

:rolleyes:

No, just no.

TheL8Elvis 16th November 2017 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Dog (Post 12079257)
wow. I thought every sexual assault survivor had “the right to be believed."

As long as it is a pattern, and until then? This ain't a "real complaint."

let us know if the "the woman" gets some back up, until then? Not a real complaint.

Holee *********** smokes......

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Dog (Post 12079259)
"the woman's" name is Leeann Tweeden.

Damn....

https://i.imgur.com/29XYmgE.gif

More feigned indignation, please !!!

Skeptic Ginger 16th November 2017 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTC8K6 (Post 12078753)
If I were to have such a photo taken with a female that I work with, I would be fired.

On a USO tour in the military? There is context you know. If someone took a picture like that on the Sat Night Live set, no one would be fired, nor should they be.

C_Felix 16th November 2017 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Dog (Post 12079257)
wow. I thought every sexual assault survivor had “the right to be believed."

As long as it is a pattern, and until then? This ain't a "real complaint."

let us know if the "the woman" gets some back up, until then? Not a real complaint.

Holee *********** smokes......

I'll let Ms. Ginger handle this.

Skeptic Ginger 16th November 2017 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTC8K6 (Post 12078771)
The photo humiliates and demeans her via a sexual reference, imo.

I'm sure it was passed around to the boys to giggle over.

Think there weren't any pics of men asleep in various poses that were passed around and joked about?

quadraginta 16th November 2017 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Civet (Post 12079046)
You know, Mike Pence is probably feeling pretty smug right about now.


Or nervous.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 12079102)
And I don't like the guy, but Pence's policy of not being alone with a women other then his wife seems to have been a smart move on his part....


I'm always a bit suspicious of the motives of people who wear their virtue so conspicuously.

I am reminded of rabidly anti-gay crusaders who end up getting busted for playing footsie in the men's room.

Skeptic Ginger 16th November 2017 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis (Post 12078788)
I can probably agree to that part without much tweaking.

The other still has to be somewhat contextual.

The problems are both legal, and political -i.e. appearances.

I'm having a hard time getting worked up over a photo by a comedian that may have been, in your own words, "passed around to the boys to giggle over." Taken in an atmosphere that according to the article " full of sexual innuendo geared toward a young, male audience."

That's the sort of context that at least makes me stop and say hmm ... is this even anywhere the same as me doing that in a corporate office ? And the answer is, of course, no.

OTOH - does it make it all OK ? No, I don't think it necessarily does. But context matters.

QFT ^

William Parcher 16th November 2017 02:52 PM

Same problem in other galaxies.

https://i.imgur.com/rdtFw08.jpg

TheL8Elvis 16th November 2017 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William Parcher (Post 12079283)
Same problem in other galaxies.

https://i.imgur.com/rdtFw08.jpg

/thread

Skeptic Ginger 16th November 2017 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis (Post 12078801)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leeann_Tweeden

She has also appeared on the political discussion series Hannity, as a member of the "Great American Panel" and occasionally appeared on the panel of Red Eye w/ Greg Gutfeld.[4]

In 1996, Tweeden appeared non-nude in a fitness model pictorial for Playboy magazine. Fifteen years later, at 38 years old, she appeared again in the December, 2011 issue of Playboy, this time posing in a nude pictorial. IIn 2002, she was a guest character in the motocross video game Freekstyle as a motocross rider. The March 2007 Issue of FHM (which was the final printed US issue) featured Tweeden as the cover girl.[5] As part of Hooters' 25th anniversary in 2008, she was named among "The Top Hooters Girls of all time".[6]


More context.

Relevant, I hate to go for the history thing, it's not always fair. But this does seem at least a little relevant.

CNN is sucking it up.

If it wasn't political (which it might not be) I have to wonder if she wasn't sexually harassed way worse than this in her career. And is this a 15 minutes of fame or not?

Show me Franken has a pattern. Or this really is a nothingburger.


This is interesting:
Quote:

On Hannity last night, Sean asked radio host Eboni Williams and TV personality Leeann Tweeden about why Abedin is still standing by her husband. Tweeden said she can understand why Abedin has remained loyal, but believes Weiner should not continue his candidacy any longer.

But Williams contended that Weiner's personal issues are "separate and apart" from his ability to run New York City, if elected. She downplayed the importance of Weiner's personal shortcomings when it comes to his ability to do a good job as mayor.
So is the Greg Gutfeld interview:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qBpS_Nhr8E
Pro-gun and a lot of sexual innuendo jokes.

Regnad Kcin 16th November 2017 02:55 PM

If we’re going to start calling to account every performer who goofed around backstage, there’s going to be hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people in trouble. And for what? Goofing around backstage.

The Big Dog 16th November 2017 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C_Felix (Post 12079277)
I'll let Ms. Ginger handle this.

She can't even bring herself to say the accuser's name, and I am not certain that you are going to convince me that everyone is entitled to one free grope.

One grope? Not a real complaint But a "pattern"? Now maybe we are talking, heck we might even mention her by name.

The Big Dog 16th November 2017 02:58 PM

And now "slut shaming"... damn.

How many free gropes do we get of woman that appear in Playboy anyway?


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