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-   -   Senator Al Franken Kissed and Groped Me Without My Consent, And There’s Nothing Funny (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=324808)

Mike! 16th November 2017 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William Parcher (Post 12079283)
Same problem in other galaxies.

https://i.imgur.com/rdtFw08.jpg

"Let the Wookie win..."

theprestige 16th November 2017 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin (Post 12079288)
If we’re going to start calling to account every performer who goofed around backstage, there’s going to be hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people in trouble. And for what? Goofing around backstage.

When you're a star, they'll let you do anything--shove your tongue in their mouth, photograph them in sexually humiliating situations...

Dr. Keith 16th November 2017 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Dog (Post 12079291)
She can't even bring herself to say the accuser's name, . . .

Her name is Skeptic Ginger, show some respect.

Skeptic Ginger 16th November 2017 03:09 PM

You do have to wonder how this stands out in her mind as the quintessential sexual harassment when clearly it must have been common in her life. You would think she had a gazillion worse complaints to be made.

Link is NSFW.

Cain 16th November 2017 03:09 PM

So he mimed groping a woman through her flak jacket. He knew she would see this picture and be humiliated. Man, rape culture never sleeps; these guys are always one or two steps ahead.

Skeptic Ginger 16th November 2017 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Keith (Post 12079302)
Her name is Skeptic Ginger, show some respect.

It's because I have to look up how to spell this woman's name, so it's easier to post 'accuser' and look it up later. :rolleyes:

The Big Dog 16th November 2017 03:11 PM

QUESTION: Has Al Franken been photographed groping a sleeping woman's breast other than "the woman's"?

Fact: it only counts if it is pattern.

Fact: Appearing in Playboy or eating at Hooters is basically a one grope free card.

Holy smokes, this thread, yo.....

Skeptic Ginger 16th November 2017 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cain (Post 12079308)
So he mimed groping a woman through her flak jacket. He knew she would see this picture and be humiliated. Man, rape culture never sleeps; these guys are always one or two steps ahead.

Not to mention it's a fake grope, he's not actually touching her.

Skeptic Ginger 16th November 2017 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Dog (Post 12079316)
QUESTION: Has Al Franken been photographed groping a sleeping woman's breast other than "the woman's"?

Fact: it only counts if it is pattern.

Fact: Appearing in Playboy or eating at Hooters is basically a one grope free card.

Holy smokes, this thread, yo.....

Not what I said at all but your post is not surprising. This was my point: "You would think she had a gazillion worse complaints to be made."

I most certainly don't believe if you are a model or waitress at Hooters it is expected of you to be groped.

C_Felix 16th November 2017 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Dog (Post 12079316)
QUESTION: Has Al Franken been photographed groping a sleeping woman's breast other than "the woman's"?

Fact: it only counts if it is pattern.

Fact: Appearing in Playboy or eating at Hooters is basically a one grope free card.

Holy smokes, this thread, yo.....


https://media.tenor.com/images/37fbd...89f0/tenor.gif

The Big Dog 16th November 2017 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 12079307)
You do have to wonder how this stands out in her mind as the quintessential sexual harassment when clearly it must have been common in her life. You would think she had a gazillion worse complaints to be made.

Link is NSFW.

:eye-poppi

Slut Shaming

damn.... is this for real?

PhantomWolf 16th November 2017 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin (Post 12079288)
If we’re going to start calling to account every performer who goofed around backstage, there’s going to be hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people in trouble. And for what? Goofing around backstage.

This is the exact problem. As long as people consider this sort of behaviour just "Goofing around backstage" it will continue to happen because it's seen as acceptable. It's not.

PhantomWolf 16th November 2017 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 12079279)
Think there weren't any pics of men asleep in various poses that were passed around and joked about?

If someone had a photo of them taken while groping or pretending to grope a sleeping guy's junk, then I'd expect them to step down from any leadership positions too.

TheL8Elvis 16th November 2017 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12079301)
When you're a star, they'll let you do anything--shove your tongue in their mouth, photograph them in sexually humiliating situations...

Do you really believe what franken was accused of doing and what trump was accused of doing are equivalent ?

Really ?

Skeptic Ginger 16th November 2017 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis (Post 12079023)
...

If this happened the way tweeden described, there are plenty more women.
And yeah, if they come out, bye bye franken.

And what if they don't? What if this woman's experience amounts to her being pissed at being the butt of the groping joke and didn't like the skit, maybe resented the subject matter, disliked Franken, whatever?

Then what?

Is every actor that kissed in a skit a potential harasser? Have you seen Game of Thrones? 50 Shades?

The Big Dog 16th November 2017 03:20 PM

#MeToo (but only if there is at least two... no hooters waitresses either)

ReElect Al!

TheL8Elvis 16th November 2017 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTC8K6 (Post 12078771)
The photo humiliates and demeans her via a sexual reference, imo.

I'm sure it was passed around to the boys to giggle over.

Can you explain how this photo would humiliated her ? I mean, she's an innocent victim ? She should be humiliated because she went to sleep, fully dressed ?

Also (anyone can answer) why hasn't this photo been circulated until she circulated it, if it was for humiliation purposes ?

Doesn't cause much humiliation hidden away from public sight does it ?

Seems like the only one humiliated here is franken ?

casebro 16th November 2017 03:22 PM

I remember a San Diego sports figure grabbed a handful of some "waitress". She sued in civil court and won. One dollar. Seems that with her past, the crime was akin to shoplifting.

This lne seems like another has-been making a last grab at the lime light.

TheL8Elvis 16th November 2017 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 12079341)
And what if they don't? What if this woman's experience amounts to her being pissed at being the butt of the groping joke and didn't like the skit, maybe resented the subject matter, disliked Franken, whatever?

Then what?

Is every actor that kissed in a skit a potential harasser? Have you seen Game of Thrones? 50 Shades?

If no one else comes out to say franken acted this way towards them, I move the idea that hannity/stone put her up to this out of the 'CT' column and move it towards the 'something to consider' column.

The Big Dog 16th November 2017 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 12079341)
And what if they don't? What if this woman's experience amounts to her being pissed at being the butt of the groping joke and didn't like the skit, maybe resented the subject matter, disliked Franken, whatever?

Then what?

Is every actor that kissed in a skit a potential harasser? Have you seen Game of Thrones? 50 Shades?

The woman's name is Leeann Tweeden and Senator Al Franken Kissed and Groped her Without her Consent, And There’s Nothing Funny About It

Belz... 16th November 2017 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fudbucker (Post 12079151)
I misrread you.

Happens all the time. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fudbucker (Post 12079155)
I think women are less likely to get involved in wars, yes. I think they also might be better at coming together to form a consensus when it comes to issues like health care, environment, etc.

That might be true, though I think you'll find that they'll be worse for other things as well. As I said, balance.

Skeptic Ginger 16th November 2017 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf (Post 12079339)
If someone had a photo of them taken while groping or pretending to grope a sleeping guy's junk, then I'd expect them to step down from any leadership positions too.

Really?

I find it hard to believe that in the military this kind of joking isn't common. There must be a gazillon sleeping picture jokes of military men and women.

Women in the military are being raped and assaulted. That is something to be outraged about. The accusations over more minor things really lessens the seriousness of the significant issues.

The Big Dog 16th November 2017 03:26 PM

Hmmm, linking to her past as a playboy model, hooters waitress, link to bikini pictures.

Golly, i wonder why more women didn't come out earlier??

Oh right, the unfettered slut shaming....

Mark F 16th November 2017 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 12079102)
And I don't like the guy, but Pence's policy of not being alone with a women other then his wife seems to have been a smart move on his part....

It seemed silly at the time but now in retrospect,...

The Big Dog 16th November 2017 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 12079354)
Really?

I find it hard to believe that in the military this kind of joking isn't common. There must be a gazillon sleeping picture jokes of military men and women.

Women in the military are being raped and assaulted. That is something to be outraged about. The accusations over more minor things really lessens the seriousness of the significant issues.

The woman's name is Leeann Tweeden and the person who Kissed and Groped her Without her Consent is a US Senator

TheL8Elvis 16th November 2017 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Dog (Post 12079348)
The woman's name is Leeann Tweeden and Senator Al Franken Kissed and Groped her Without her Consent, And There’s Nothing Funny About It

Actually, he didn't kiss her without consent.

And IDK if I count that as "groping" her , as it doesn't like like he's actually touching her.

grope
2.
informal
feel or fondle (someone) for sexual pleasure, especially against their will.
"he was accused of groping office girls"
synonyms: fondle, touch;

TheL8Elvis 16th November 2017 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 12079102)
And I don't like the guy, but Pence's policy of not being alone with a women other then his wife seems to have been a smart move on his part....

Because he can't keep his hands to himself ?

Travis 16th November 2017 03:30 PM

On the sliding scale of sexual assault seriousness is one kiss from what might have been a miscommunication and a pretend grope the same as actually groping and repeatedly kissing teenage girls?

Because while both are bad I see one as definitely way worse than the other. The response is also starkly different.

PhantomWolf 16th November 2017 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis (Post 12079340)
Do you really believe what franken was accused of doing and what trump was accused of doing are equivalent ?

Really ?

It's not the same scale as a the pussy-grabber or the 14-year old feeler upper or the wiener-pic sender, but that's not the point, the point is that it's still on the scale at all, and if we are going to say that no secual hassament or abuse is acceptable (which it isn't) then it doesn't matter which end of the scale it sits on, it's unacceptable behaviour, and leaders that have engaged in that sort of behaviour need to show that they are willing to accept the consequences. If they refuse to do so, then what message does that send to the men that already think that sexually harassing and abusing others is their right? He needs to do the right thing, and that is stand down. He can let the voters decide if it is bad enough to keep him from being re-elected or not.

Civet 16th November 2017 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis (Post 12079365)
Because he can't keep his hands to himself ?

Man's got to know his limitations.

casebro 16th November 2017 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 12079307)
You do have to wonder how this stands out in her mind as the quintessential sexual harassment when clearly it must have been common in her life. You would think she had a gazillion worse complaints to be made.

Link is NSFW.

Hmmm, people expect an actor to kiss that, and NOT slip her the tongue?

So, we're not supposed to "slut shame", but Geez, men are not eunuchs. Not even actors.

Skeptic Ginger 16th November 2017 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis (Post 12079346)
If no one else comes out to say franken acted this way towards them, I move the idea that hannity/stone put her up to this out of the 'CT' column and move it towards the 'something to consider' column.

I don't think they necessarily put her up to it. I don't think it's necessarily political. I suspect she doesn't like Franken, and I don't know if that's it or this is bandwagon jumping.

It doesn't matter and we shouldn't assume any of that. Regardless of the reason, the question still remains, is this one person's reaction to Franken or is it a pattern?

If one person believes, for whatever reason, that your actions toward them were abusive, then 1) it's either the actions were abusive and it's a pattern, or 2) the actions were abusive unintentionally (it happens), or 3) the actions weren't abusive and the person's interpretation of the actions was wrong.

I've already said the reason I don't put #1 on that list as the most likely is because Franken has been a promoter of women's rights for decades. That doesn't mean he couldn't still turn out to be an abuser. But I have no reason not to rule out #2 or #3 at this point.

Scootch 16th November 2017 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis (Post 12079365)
Because he can't keep his hands to himself ?

Are you taking into account the context? Maybe there were women that wanted to be alone with him were bikini models or were once in a Playboy spread.

Skeptic Ginger 16th November 2017 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casebro (Post 12079377)
Hmmm, people expect an actor to kiss that, and NOT slip her the tongue?

So, we're not supposed to "slut shame", but Geez, men are not eunuchs. Not even actors.

I purposefully did not slut shame. But I can see why that is confusing to people. I repeat: "You would think she had a gazillion worse complaints to be made."

"I most certainly don't believe if you are a model or waitress at Hooters it is expected of you to be groped."

Mark F 16th November 2017 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Dog (Post 12079362)
The woman's name is Leeann Tweeden and the person who Kissed and Groped her Without her Consent is now a US Senator

FTFY - for clarification.

Skeptic Ginger 16th November 2017 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf (Post 12079371)
It's not the same scale as a the pussy-grabber or the 14-year old feeler upper or the wiener-pic sender, but that's not the point, the point is that it's still on the scale at all, and if we are going to say that no secual hassament or abuse is acceptable (which it isn't) then it doesn't matter which end of the scale it sits on, it's unacceptable behaviour, and leaders that have engaged in that sort of behaviour need to show that they are willing to accept the consequences. If they refuse to do so, then what message does that send to the men that already think that sexually harassing and abusing others is their right? He needs to do the right thing, and that is stand down. He can let the voters decide if it is bad enough to keep him from being re-elected or not.

Maybe Franken needs jail time. :rolleyes:

TheL8Elvis 16th November 2017 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf (Post 12079371)
It's not the same scale as a the pussy-grabber or the 14-year old feeler upper or the wiener-pic sender, but that's not the point, the point is that it's still on the scale at all, and if we are going to say that no secual hassament or abuse is acceptable (which it isn't) then it doesn't matter which end of the scale it sits on, it's unacceptable behaviour, and leaders that have engaged in that sort of behaviour need to show that they are willing to accept the consequences.

Well, I'm glad you weren't making the false equivalency then. :D

I think you will find the set of people who think franken should step down due to this coincides 100% with the group that thinks trump shouldn't be president because of what he did.

The problem is the group of people who think franken needs to go, but trump is ok.

I'm trying to find out if the prestige is in that latter group.


Quote:

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf (Post 12079371)
If they refuse to do so, then what message does that send to the men that already think that sexually harassing and abusing others is their right? He needs to do the right thing, and that is stand down. He can let the voters decide if it is bad enough to keep him from being re-elected or not.

Franken said he will accept and participate in an ethics investigation - that sounds like the right thing.

They can investigate the charges there ... because that sounds like the right thing too. I'm not quite ready to just willy-nilly take anyones word for things that have big consequences with no investigation.

xjx388 16th November 2017 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis (Post 12079340)
Do you really believe what franken was accused of doing and what trump was accused of doing are equivalent ?



Really ?



Not at all. There’s an actual picture of Franken sexually harassing a woman.

PhantomWolf 16th November 2017 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 12079354)
Really?

Yes really.

Quote:

I find it hard to believe that in the military this kind of joking isn't common. There must be a gazillon sleeping picture jokes of military men and women.
And if there are, then they would be just as wrong.

Quote:

Women in the military are being raped and assaulted. That is something to be outraged about. The accusations over more minor things really lessens the seriousness of the significant issues.
I totally disagree, in fact I say it's the exact opposite. If you say, "oh that was just messing around," to the small stuff, then it's too easy to slide the scale of "messing around" upwards. Where does "messing around" become "assault"? When you give licence to the little stuff, then you devalue the bigger stuff because people slowly get immune to it. Pretending to grope is okay goes to actual groping being okay, then pulling off tops being okay, and so on. When you say, zero tolerance, then the "messing around" is not okay and by extend anything worse is darn well not okay.

Think about this for a moment. If it wasn't for the whole "locker-room talk" thing with Trump, do you think there would even be a question as it if felling up a 14-year old was acceptable currently?

The way to stamp this out is to not be accepting of any of it, regardless of how "just messing around" it might be.

TheL8Elvis 16th November 2017 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scootch (Post 12079379)
Are you taking into account the context? Maybe there were women that wanted to be alone with him were bikini models or were once in a Playboy spread.

Well played. :o


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