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-   -   Senator Al Franken Kissed and Groped Me Without My Consent, And There’s Nothing Funny (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=324808)

plague311 23rd July 2019 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by applecorped (Post 12763625)
Yeah don't you hate it when women give false testimony. I'm sure Supreme Court Justices do.

Sweet, two sentences strung together. It appears to be a non sequitur but at least it's more than 4 words. That's a start. Now if you could follow it up with some context as to what the hell you're talking about it would be awesome.

Minoosh 23rd July 2019 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luchog (Post 12762869)
Problem is, if they were, why would there be any reason to vote for them over the Republicans? The kind of mindset that thinks exaggerating a minor incident into a huge public outcry just to distract from one's own public peccadilloes in their mad dash for more and greater power is a good thing isn't exactly the sort of person who gives a rat's about universal healthcare or civil rights or balanced budgets.

I'm not really sure this is true. LBJ was a trickster but also championed civil rights. You can be pro-UHC without being particularly compassionate, just because it seems to be rational public policy.

ETA: From Politico's worst political dirty tricks

Yeah it was somewhat heavier on Republicans but certainly not exclusively. And it doesn't have to be the candidates themselves to do it - "operatives" are often involved. Which come to think of it is what Hannity is.

luchog 23rd July 2019 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minoosh (Post 12763782)
I'm not really sure this is true. LBJ was a trickster but also championed civil rights. You can be pro-UHC without being particularly compassionate, just because it seems to be rational public policy.


Johnson was certainly a schemer, but did also appear to be fully committed to the Civil Rights movement, and Great Society programs like public education (which he himself had benefited from).

Quote:

ETA: From Politico's worst political dirty tricks

Yeah it was somewhat heavier on Republicans but certainly not exclusively. And it doesn't have to be the candidates themselves to do it - "operatives" are often involved. Which come to think of it is what Hannity is.

You have to remember that a lot of this is is also pre-Southern Strategy, and the Southern Democrats had not yet defected to the GOP. It's also in the middle of the Red Scare period, and standards were a lot lower, particularly with regard to Johnson's ballot-box stuffing (a common enough practice). Politics in generally were a whole lot dirtier and more opaque in the past. Even so, very little of what the Dems did come up to the level of the GOP's rumour-mongering, Watergate, COINTELPRO, and so on; and the party has evolved considerably since then. There's still rather more of the dirty politics than I would like; but while the Dems are being pressured to take a higher moral road, the GOP under Trump are exuberantly wallowing in the muck, and dragging nearly half the country into it with them.

quadraginta 23rd July 2019 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin (Post 12763187)
“Sexual assault is bad.”

So, sometimes, are absolutes.


Is this one of those times?

Chris_Halkides 28th July 2019 08:50 PM

Fresh Air, 25 July 2019
 
NPR's Terry Gross interviewed Jane Mayer, author of the piece in The New Yorker. A portion of Ms. Gross's Fresh Air interview with Al Franken (circa 2004) is played and discussed.

Cain 28th July 2019 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides (Post 12769343)
NPR's Terry Gross interviewed Jane Mayer, author of the piece in The New Yorker. A portion of Ms. Gross's Fresh Air interview with Al Franken (circa 2004) is played and discussed.

I listened to this entire interview Thursday night. It seems a lot of Mayer's reporting (I have not read her piece), concerns itself with Tweeden, but Tweeden always had credibility issues. Anyone would be a fool for taking her story at face-value.

The far more credible claims came from Democratic women who reported Franken's grab-ass years earlier to third parties. Mayer argues that Franken's just pointing people toward the light to get a good angle, and that he's a clueless slob, but that stretches credulity.

Skeptic Ginger 28th July 2019 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey (Post 12763157)
....

It's contemptible how flexible some people's ethics become when politics are involved. Sexual assault is bad. Full stop. A D or R after the perpetrator's name does not make it excusable.

If you're applying this to me, that's bull ****,

Skeptic Ginger 28th July 2019 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giz (Post 12763256)
That seems incredibly patronizing of him. Surely if one adult makes a false accusation to another adult, it should be challenged?

More evidence that he doesn’t respect women?

Having heard Jane Meyer's examination of what happened, a bunch of knee jerk Democratic legislators jumped the gun and screwed up.

But you wouldn't know that by the slew of right-wing commentaries attacking her, gee what a surprise.


Tell me what did Franken do? Pissed off a right wing actor on an MSO tour. How is that anything like Harvey Weinstein, Judge Moore, Epstein or TRUMP?

And OMG, some people thought he was too handsey when people asked him for selfies.

What else you got?

It's not because he's a Democrat. it's because the #metoo has to have a line somewhere or else it's meaningless.

Skeptic Ginger 28th July 2019 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by applecorped (Post 12763348)
well, you can't [can] obviously

ftfy

Skeptic Ginger 28th July 2019 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides (Post 12769343)
NPR's Terry Gross interviewed Jane Mayer, author of the piece in The New Yorker. A portion of Ms. Gross's Fresh Air interview with Al Franken (circa 2004) is played and discussed.

One of the good guys refuses to call his accusers liars even if they have it wrong. That's what I see.

TragicMonkey 29th July 2019 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 12769391)
If you're applying this to me, that's bull ****,

An eloquent, well-evidenced argument completely worthy of you!

Mike! 29th July 2019 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plague311 (Post 12763621)
That's a fine line. The mob isn't always wrong, and all things said and done, they are elected to represent the desires of their constituents. While I agree they should stop, take a breath, and think about everything first, there can be times where listening to the mob is your best move.

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