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-   -   The all-new "US Politics and coronavirus" thread (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=343502)

Squeegee Beckenheim 14th April 2020 07:09 AM

The all-new "US Politics and coronavirus" thread
 
To get us started:

A month after Trump's Rose Garden speech, the majority of his promises remain unfulfilled

Lithrael 14th April 2020 09:07 AM

Iím still highly salty about Texas declaring all abortion services non-essential. Nice job with de facto outlawing there.

pgwenthold 14th April 2020 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lithrael (Post 13055792)
Iím still highly salty about Texas declaring all abortion services non-essential. Nice job with de facto outlawing there.

It's a complete distortion of the concept of "essential services." Essential services are those that need to be done now, because they can't wait until later. Grocery stores are good examples, because we need food, and we can't just wait 2 months to get food.

The same is true for abortions. Given the time constraints imposed on abortions, if one is to have an abortion, it needs to be done now, and can't be put off. It's actually a perfect example of what constitutes an essential service.

rockysmith76 14th April 2020 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgwenthold (Post 13055808)
It's a complete distortion of the concept of "essential services." Essential services are those that need to be done now, because they can't wait until later. Grocery stores are good examples, because we need food, and we can't just wait 2 months to get food.

The same is true for abortions. Given the time constraints imposed on abortions, if one is to have an abortion, it needs to be done now, and can't be put off. It's actually a perfect example of what constitutes an essential service.

Abortions are not essential, to liken them with the need for food is comical, at least the frivolous ones.

Meadmaker 14th April 2020 10:38 AM

If only they had lived in Florida, instead.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...s-service.html

(Professional wrestling - essential service)

Stacyhs 14th April 2020 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim (Post 13055662)

From your link:

Quote:

In response to this story, the White House said Monday night that the president had taken "bold and decisive actions" to combat the coronavirus crisis.

"President Trump and this Administration are using the full power of the federal government and working in close partnership with the private sector to respond to the health and economic challenges posed by COVID-19," White House spokesperson Judd Deere said in a statement.
I see Trump and his cronies are still living in the world of "alternative facts" as Kellyanne put it. The WH resorts to "Say it, and they will believe". Sadly, so many Trump supporters do just that. Because, after all, Trump doesn't lie.

Stacyhs 14th April 2020 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meadmaker (Post 13055871)
If only they had lived in Florida, instead.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...s-service.html

(Professional wrestling - essential service)

From you link:

Quote:

The governor, often referred to as a ďmini-Trump,Ē is granting this lucrative exemption to the WWE, which is owned by Trump booster Vince McMahon, whose wife, Linda McMahon, served in the Trump Cabinet and runs a Trump 2020 super PAC.
Perhaps I'm just being cynical here, but could this possibly have anything to do with DeSantis' decision? Naaaaahhhhhhh.....

pgwenthold 14th April 2020 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockysmith76 (Post 13055825)
Abortions are not essential, to liken them with the need for food is comical, at least the frivolous ones.

Wow, that point went flying way over your head....

Squeegee Beckenheim 14th April 2020 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockysmith76 (Post 13055825)
Abortions are not essential, to liken them with the need for food is comical, at least the frivolous ones.

Does that remain true if without an abortion both the mother and foetus will die?

Meadmaker 14th April 2020 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13055876)
From you link:



Perhaps I'm just being cynical here, but could this possibly have anything to do with DeSantis' decision? Naaaaahhhhhhh.....

Trump has pretty close ties to professional wrestling, I think via McMahon.

Trump is a member of the WWE Hall of Fame. (For those new here, no I am not making that up.)

Meadmaker 14th April 2020 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim (Post 13055662)

I think this is just so typical for Trump and his response.

He says all the right things, and acts like they are done, but they aren't. He just isn't getting the job done, and he doesn't even seem aware that he isn't. He announced that something good will happen. Yay. Now, about that testing...

Stacyhs 14th April 2020 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meadmaker (Post 13055885)
Trump has pretty close ties to professional wrestling, I think via McMahon.

Trump is a member of the WWE Hall of Fame. (For those new here, no I am not making that up.)

Yep...which is exactly my point. That and Linda McMahon runs a Trump Super PAC which I think is the major reason for DeSantis' decision.

Segnosaur 14th April 2020 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13055890)
Quote:

Trump has pretty close ties to professional wrestling, I think via McMahon.
Yep...which is exactly my point. That and Linda McMahon runs a Trump Super PAC which I think is the major reason for DeSantis' decision.

Yes, there are ties between Trump and McMahon.

To be honest though, I don't think that factors much into the decision to let the WWE continue creating shows in Florida.

I do watch wrestling, and the shows themselves seem to be fairly low-risk affairs.... no audience, probably minimal staff. Employees are also screened regularly (temperatures taken before entering the arena) and mask use is encouraged. (I don't know if they make any effort to keep wrestlers separate backstage; I hope they do.)

The WWE does have a significant media presence so it makes sense that the Florida gov. would want to keep them happy (even if they didn't have a relationship with Trump.)

Segnosaur 14th April 2020 11:18 AM

Remember that anti-Malarial drug Trump kept pushing as some sort of miracle cure? "How can it hurt" he said.

From: https://nationalpost.com/news/world/...1-patients-die
A possible treatment for COVID-19, heavily touted by U.S. President Donald Trump in recent weeks, has been withdrawn from high-dose use in a Brazilian trial because it was feared to be having adverse effects on patients’ hearts. Chloroquine...has inspired hope in some medical circles amid reports that it can help to offset the symptoms of the deadly virus. But the New York Times reports that a recent clinical trial saw patients develop irregular heartbeats, a number of whom developed heart arrhythmias and later died.

(I think someone else posted in another thread about other studies from Europe that wer likewise canceled amid problems.)

Stacyhs 14th April 2020 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segnosaur (Post 13055907)
Yes, there are ties between Trump and McMahon.

To be honest though, I don't think that factors much into the decision to let the WWE continue creating shows in Florida.

I do watch wrestling, and the shows themselves seem to be fairly low-risk affairs.... no audience, probably minimal staff. Employees are also screened regularly (temperatures taken before entering the arena) and mask use is encouraged. (I don't know if they make any effort to keep wrestlers separate backstage; I hope they do.)

The WWE does have a significant media presence so it makes sense that the Florida gov. would want to keep them happy (even if they didn't have a relationship with Trump.)

How anyone thinks the WWE is an essential service is beyond me. Keeping the WWE 'happy' is about as unimportant as it gets.

rockysmith76 14th April 2020 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim (Post 13055883)
Does that remain true if without an abortion both the mother and foetus will die?

I said the frivolous ones, the ones where baby was basically an oops and an act of irresponsibility and would also take away a hospital bed from one of the life threatening ones. That said, likening abortions, given the myriad of other potential serious operations that could be needed, to being as essential as food is just a stupid analogy.

Stacyhs 14th April 2020 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segnosaur (Post 13055913)
Remember that anti-Malarial drug Trump kept pushing as some sort of miracle cure? "How can it hurt" he said.

From: https://nationalpost.com/news/world/...1-patients-die
A possible treatment for COVID-19, heavily touted by U.S. President Donald Trump in recent weeks, has been withdrawn from high-dose use in a Brazilian trial because it was feared to be having adverse effects on patientsí hearts. Chloroquine...has inspired hope in some medical circles amid reports that it can help to offset the symptoms of the deadly virus. But the New York Times reports that a recent clinical trial saw patients develop irregular heartbeats, a number of whom developed heart arrhythmias and later died.

(I think someone else posted in another thread about other studies from Europe that wer likewise canceled amid problems.)

Fake News! It's a 'game changer' and the early testing results are 'very, very encouraging'! (Not a) Dr.Trump says so.

Segnosaur 14th April 2020 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockysmith76 (Post 13055919)
Quote:

Does that remain true if without an abortion both the mother and foetus will die?
I said the frivolous ones, the ones where baby was basically an oops and an act of irresponsibility and would also take away a hospital bed from one of the life threatening ones.

In case you didn't know...

Most abortions take place in the first trimester and don't require hospitalization.

Also, keep in mind that if the goal were really to limit the spread of Covid-19, then banning abortions is the worst thing to do... after all, an abortion would require maybe one or 2 visits to a clinic, and its done... On the other hand, a pregnant woman who is keeping the baby will have to go to seek medical attention multiple times (for example, a recommended once a month visit at minimum to the doctor, plus other visits for ultrasounds, blood tests, etc.) And that's assuming the baby and mother are healthy. Each one of those visits provides additional risk for spreading the virus.

rockysmith76 14th April 2020 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segnosaur (Post 13055938)
In case you didn't know...

Most abortions take place in the first trimester and don't require hospitalization.

Also, keep in mind that if the goal were really to limit the spread of Covid-19, then banning abortions is the worst thing to do... after all, an abortion would require maybe one or 2 visits to a clinic, and its done... On the other hand, a pregnant woman who is keeping the baby will have to go to seek medical attention multiple times (for example, a recommended once a month visit at minimum to the doctor, plus other visits for ultrasounds, blood tests, etc.) And that's assuming the baby and mother are healthy. Each one of those visits provides additional risk for spreading the virus.

Or maybe just keep ones legs shut. Seems simpler.

lomiller 14th April 2020 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13055918)
How anyone thinks the WWE is an essential service is beyond me. Keeping the WWE 'happy' is about as unimportant as it gets.

Keeping Donald Trump happy is pretty darned if you don’t want the federal government shorting you on ventilators and other pandemic related medical supplies. Trump is in the WWE hall of fame, and Linda McMahon has been part of the Trump administration since 2017.

Meadmaker 14th April 2020 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segnosaur (Post 13055913)
Remember that anti-Malarial drug Trump kept pushing as some sort of miracle cure? "How can it hurt" he said.

From: https://nationalpost.com/news/world/...1-patients-die
A possible treatment for COVID-19, heavily touted by U.S. President Donald Trump in recent weeks, has been withdrawn from high-dose use in a Brazilian trial because it was feared to be having adverse effects on patientsí hearts. Chloroquine...has inspired hope in some medical circles amid reports that it can help to offset the symptoms of the deadly virus. But the New York Times reports that a recent clinical trial saw patients develop irregular heartbeats, a number of whom developed heart arrhythmias and later died.

(I think someone else posted in another thread about other studies from Europe that wer likewise canceled amid problems.)

The posts that I saw (and I posted a link to one of them) were also about the Brazilian study.

Stacyhs 14th April 2020 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segnosaur (Post 13055938)
In case you didn't know...

Most abortions take place in the first trimester and don't require hospitalization.

Also, keep in mind that if the goal were really to limit the spread of Covid-19, then banning abortions is the worst thing to do... after all, an abortion would require maybe one or 2 visits to a clinic, and its done... On the other hand, a pregnant woman who is keeping the baby will have to go to seek medical attention multiple times (for example, a recommended once a month visit at minimum to the doctor, plus other visits for ultrasounds, blood tests, etc.) And that's assuming the baby and mother are healthy. Each one of those visits provides additional risk for spreading the virus.

If the anti-choice people have their way, abortions won't even take place in a medical facility at all but in backrooms and basements like they did before. Many of those women ended up in the hospital and/or dead.

pgwenthold 14th April 2020 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13055979)
If the anti-choice people have their way, abortions won't even take place in a medical facility at all but in backrooms and basements like they did before. Many of those women ended up in the hospital and/or dead.

Read the response above. Those sluts should have just kept their legs shut.

Resume 14th April 2020 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgwenthold (Post 13055995)
Read the response above. Those sluts should have just kept their legs shut.

No mention of the guy's responsibility of course.

Stacyhs 14th April 2020 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lomiller (Post 13055972)
Keeping Donald Trump happy is pretty darned if you donít want the federal government shorting you on ventilators and other pandemic related medical supplies. Trump is in the WWE hall of fame, and Linda McMahon has been part of the Trump administration since 2017.

This is Florida, not some blue state, and Trump's home state. DeSantis is one of Trump's biggest supporters and a Trump favorite. Not declaring the WWE an essential business is not going to make Trump turn on his state and one of his favorite sycophants by shorting them on PPEs and ventilators.

Linda McMahon has not been a member of Trump's admin. since 2019. It's her position as chair of his re-election SuperPAC that and wife of the WWE's owner that are the motivating factors for this. Trump being a member of the WWE Hall of Fame is completely irrelevant.

Lithrael 14th April 2020 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockysmith76 (Post 13055943)
Or maybe just keep ones legs shut. Seems simpler.

Yeah! Just like all you have to do to make Marxist communism work is have no corruption, laziness or greed.

Stacyhs 14th April 2020 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgwenthold (Post 13055995)
Read the response above. Those sluts should have just kept their legs shut.

I stand corrected. And it's not like women ever get pregnant by rape because their bodies just shut down like Todd Akin said, right? And condoms never break. And birth control never fails. :rolleyes:

ETA: I can only see his comments if someone quotes them. Otherwise, I'm spared.

Armitage72 14th April 2020 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meadmaker (Post 13055888)
I think this is just so typical for Trump and his response.

He says all the right things, and acts like they are done, but they aren't. He just isn't getting the job done, and he doesn't even seem aware that he isn't. He announced that something good will happen. Yay. Now, about that testing...


The complete lack of substantive content in the response reminds me of an episode of "Good Times" in which a local politician was running for reelection. He responded to questions about any issue with the exact same phrase, "I have very definite opinions about that! Very definite opinions!" He never stated what those opinions actually were, but his bombastic presentation won over enough of the voters.

thaiboxerken 14th April 2020 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockysmith76 (Post 13055919)
I said the frivolous ones, the ones where baby was basically an oops and an act of irresponsibility and would also take away a hospital bed from one of the life threatening ones. That said, likening abortions, given the myriad of other potential serious operations that could be needed, to being as essential as food is just a stupid analogy.

Abortion is a responsible act. To take away choice takes away responsibility. That said, abortions are essential because they are time dependent. But that point went right over your head, as was said by others.

thaiboxerken 14th April 2020 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockysmith76 (Post 13055943)
Or maybe just keep ones legs shut. Seems simpler.

And that's what anti-abortion is all about. It's about punishing women for having sex. Thank you for making that point loud and clear.

thaiboxerken 14th April 2020 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13055979)
If the anti-choice people have their way, abortions won't even take place in a medical facility at all but in backrooms and basements like they did before. Many of those women ended up in the hospital and/or dead.

That's the goal. To punish/kill women for having sex.

Matthew Best 14th April 2020 03:32 PM

So now Trump has announced that he will stop US funding to the WHO.

Though what they need with it, I don't know. Roger Daltrey's got a trout farm, for God's sake.

Darat 14th April 2020 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockysmith76 (Post 13055943)
Or maybe just keep ones legs shut. Seems simpler.


If you consider that the answer and it is a reasonable standard for anyone to follow do you really want someone who couldnít even manage that to be raising a child?

Stacyhs 14th April 2020 04:26 PM

Trump is just trying to pass blame to anyone but himself, including the W.H.O. Remember, he takes no responsibility.

Segnosaur 14th April 2020 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Best (Post 13056187)
So now Trump has announced that he will stop US funding to the WHO.

Does anyone know if he can actually do that?

Normally it is Congress that deals with financial issues (although they may allocate funds with the president actually spending money). Just wondering if trump actually has the authority to withhold funds to the WHO or does he need Congress to agree.


Sent from my LM-X320 using Tapatalk

thaiboxerken 14th April 2020 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13056204)
If you consider that the answer and it is a reasonable standard for anyone to follow do you really want someone who couldnít even manage that to be raising a child?

Not his problem. Let the child starve for all he cares.

Trebuchet 14th April 2020 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken (Post 13056293)
Not his problem. Let the child starve for all he cares.

Correct. Fetuses are beloved of Gawd. He doesn't give a **** about actual children.

Stacyhs 14th April 2020 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segnosaur (Post 13056291)
Does anyone know if he can actually do that?

Normally it is Congress that deals with financial issues (although they may allocate funds with the president actually spending money). Just wondering if trump actually has the authority to withhold funds to the WHO or does he need Congress to agree.


Sent from my LM-X320 using Tapatalk

Apparently he does. This is Trump lashing out at the WHO in his continuing attempt to blame others and take no responsibility for his own screw ups. After all, his handling of the crisis has been "perfect" just like his Ukraine phone call.

Segnosaur 14th April 2020 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13055918)
Quote:

To be honest though, I don't think that factors much into the decision to let the WWE continue creating shows in Florida.

I do watch wrestling, and the shows themselves seem to be fairly low-risk affairs.... no audience, probably minimal staff. Employees are also screened regularly...
How anyone thinks the WWE is an essential service is beyond me. Keeping the WWE 'happy' is about as unimportant as it gets.

Personally I don't think it is an "essential service"... just that they take enough steps to minimize the risk that it could be considered acceptable.

Stacyhs 14th April 2020 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segnosaur (Post 13056341)
Personally I don't think it is an "essential service"... just that they take enough steps to minimize the risk that it could be considered acceptable.

DeSantis declared it an 'essential service' which is ludicrous.


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