And a new player enters the game in the UK as Kier Starmer wins the Labour leadership contest, hell of a time to take over that job...

Yes, but if you keep increasing the targets people who don't read past the headline will assume this means you've met the previous one. All the fun of lying without the (very occasional) reporter calling you out on it.

It's certainly true that there are rambling fanatics. We were talking about whether or not it's right for farmers to shoot people for using public rights of way during the current pandemic. I think to make that case you're going to have to do a little more work than "some people take it too far!"

Who has tried to do that? The thread itself literally says that even the Chinese government doesn't know how many deaths there really have been.

As always, it should go without saying that people should be sceptical of any information that they're presented with.

Your assertion, though, was that this was disinformation planted by Putin.

This article is about how UK deaths are reported and why that means that the current death toll is likely much lower than the actual death toll

I imagine that it's a similar situation in other countries, too.

Upon naming him, his parents imagined him to become an author of novels.

In California testing looked promising for a while!!

It is the results we can't get.
60k tests 'pending' for more than 2 weeks. Less that 30k tests have results. Forty million residents and that is all the results completed since testing started. So worthless to test and then not process those tests!

Well the first name might indicate parents who are dyed in the wool Labour supporters.

That's what I thought.

I haven't done any such thi...... Opps, my bad!

You think the UK is the only place that has rights of way for pedestrians? Some of the paths go back thousands of years, one near me has been in use for over five thousand years. Villages are often surrounded by farmland and these paths existed long before the farms did, they're usually a fraction of the distance of walking round via the roads. They are paths between, or down the edges of fields, it's not like walkers are trapesing through the farmer's living room ffs.

Today a police van was going around Peckham Rye Common blaring “no sunbathing... exercise only” from it's loudspeaker at anyone who was standing still.

How are sunbathing or exercise in anyway fundamentally different in terms of virus risk? Or is it just that we have to show the correct amount of unhappiness at all times now?

No smiling, miserable or concerned facial expressions only please.

Petty Fascists.

Seems like a good bloke, has the right name...

Waiting.

Sorry, but that kind of stuff is anathema to me. We have this crazy system where, if a path is a public right-of-way, it's fenced off from the farm so the people using it stick to the correct path and farm animals don't kill them.

I didn't say it was disinformation and agreed that China hasn't been honest.

Russian troll farms are spreading disinformation, and if you know anything about the spread of conspiracy theories and disinformation, you'd know that it's very helpful to use actual evidence at the start to bolster the absurd claims later.

Anyone unaware that statistics produced by lots of countries will be either incorrect or falsified hasn't been watching for the past century or two, so what is gained by articles about China's incorrect numbers?

Nothing.

But it plays beautifully into CT and racist propaganda.

Often they are, and everyone is happy, often the right of way boarders a field of crops and it isn't necessary, and everyone is happy, and sometimes, only occasionally but sometimes, the owner of the adjacent land decides that sticking a bull, or cows with calves, in a field with a right of way might dissuade people from exercising their legal right to walk down it.

That you think it's "crazy" isn't an argument in favour of shooting people using it.

So when you called it "crap" you meant "accurate information"?

Are you seriously asking what value there is in informing people of facts? Or is your contention that absolutely nobody in the world is gullible, uninformed, or displays a lack of critical thinking?

You seem to be arguing against the dissemination of accurate information because there's a potential at some unspecified point in the future for inaccurate information to be spread by people who have previously used accurate information in order to make themselves seem credible. Is that an accurate summation of your position? And, to be clear, are you intending to implicate Andrew Neil in this?

UK govt says it will ban exercise outside the home if people continue to ignore the rules.
The evidence for rules being ignored is a video of a police van driving round Peckham Rye Common using it's loudspeaker to blare at anyone who stops for a moment or sits on the grass.
Video of a park in Manchester that looks to be crowded with people is also being shown. But as lots of video from people at the park shows its the telephoto lens used in the 'official' video that makes people look close together through foreshortening.
As for the Peckham thing, how does stopping for a sit down on the grass increase the risk of the virus spreading if people are still distancing.
Also similar stuff on various sea fronts, police swooping on people that stop to sit on the benches even if they are alone.
Seems to me the govt is eager to keep people locked up if they look anything but miserable.

For once I find myself siding with the government’s approach, it needs to be heavy handed at the moment. This is nothing about people being miserable or happy it is to safeguard the population.

I do understand the necessity, but I shall be annoyed if a general "not even for exercise" lockdown is introduced, as I'm one of those who can do it safely.

I live in a small hamlet about a mile from Malmesbury and my normal walk is into town - it takes in a small nature reserve, two stretches of river, an alpaca farm and a thousand-year-old abbey as well as shops and the library. Since the lockdown I've turned left instead of right when I leave my home and started to explore the lanes and paths that go out into the countryside. When I went out for a walk yesterday I managed to keep at least 2m away from the occasional walker/dog walker/jogger I passed without difficulty.

"Shoot them dead": Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte orders police and military to kill citizens who defy coronavirus lockdown



And then government officials insisted that he was just using hyperbole and didn't actually mean to murder citizens.


Why does that seem familiar?

Germany too?

:rolleyes:

You really need to learn more before pontificating.

Nobody has good data, but no one is going around implying "Italy is lying, that's why it's not our fault for mismanaging the COVID crisis". What's at issue isn't whether China's number can be trusted or not but what would matter at this point. It appear to be more of a propaganda tool than anything truly important to the crisis in other countries.

February, the lost month of testing
 

The Wikipedia article on 2020 coronavirus pandemic in the United States has this to say in its introduction:

We're all aware of how President Trump downplayed the pandemic threat for six weeks in February and March. However, it appears both the FDA and the CDC had a significant role in the slow initial response: the FDA for tightly adhering to regulations and the CDC for having a flawed test, and an insufficient number of them.

My question is, can these problems be directly linked to the Trump administration? For example, would a better funded CDC have more tests available? Would a president more concerned with a potential pandemic and less about the stock market have been meeting with the FDA in an attempt to make the regulatory environment more favourable to widespread testing?

When the Chief Medical Officer in Scotland receives a police warning for twice breaching the Health Protection Regs, as she travelled two weekends in a row to her holiday house, it is clear that too many people think they do not need to follow the rules.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-52171694

The Chief Constable of Police Scotland said "Individuals must not make personal exemptions bespoke to their own circumstances." It is clear too many people are doing just that and sadly, maybe we do need to be put in our places and enforcement needs to strict.

What harm was she doing?
Did she come in to contact with anyone?

PM Johnson has been admitted to hospital for tests, as he's still showing symptons 10 days after testing positive.

IIRC it was mentioned on one of the BBC news programmes that the Queen deliver these speeches at the request of the government.

She was failing to follow the advice she was giving to everyone else, thus making it seem like that advice was bogus.

She's resigned now. Shows the corruption and stupidity of politicians that she didn't resign (or be sacked) right away. Obvious from the outset that she had to go.

Only way she could have survived would have been to concoct a seemingly valid reason why she needed to visit the area and say that her second home was nearer to that location than her first one. I'm suspect she and her boss considered that lie, but decided that they might get found out on it.

Rules are for proles.
What's point of having power and influence if you still have to follow rules like unwashed masses?

Boris has been sent to hospital.

Quite true.
Had a friend who’s father was a British Airways captain.
As he drove through a car park against the flow, his daughter pointed out that the arrows were all pointing the other way.

“Those are for people who don’t know what they’re doing.”

Oh good grief....
:rolleyes:

Indeed, an interesting development, with Raab next in line. Well at least the Bouffant Buffoon may experience what he and his cronies have done to the NHS first hand.
I wonder why Symonds hasn't been tested?

I'm no fan of the tory party, but Gove's quote was taken out of context.

he said "had enough of experts from organisations with acronyms saying they know whats best and getting it consistently wrong"
https://youtu.be/GGgiGtJk7MA?t=61

What does that comment even mean?

Transcript of the Queen's speech in full

TL/DR version: "essential workers are being awesome and to everybody else: stay indoors, you ******* numpties".

I hope that he recovers, partly because I wouldn't wish that kind of death on anybody and partly because it would leave us with Raab, but I hope that it's serious enough for him to suffer enough discomfort for him to finally realise how serious this is now that it's not just happening in the abstract to other people and pull his finger and head out of his arse to start actually genuinely working 100% for the benefit of public health.

There has been a huge debate over travelling to exercise, or go to second homes or camp. Such travel is being blamed for spreading the virus, especially to the Highlands and Islands.

Whilst it is safe for individuals and families to travel to exercise etc, it becomes increasingly less safe the more people do it. The risk of accidents and not being able to socially distance increases.

People are being urged to use common sense, but too often, too many people are going out to supposedly exercise and are getting too crowded and/or they are just ignoring social distancing. Sadly too many people have ruined it for the majority and so increasingly, no one is being allowed to go to parks, beaches or even the relative safety of a second home and a walk around the nearby golf course, which is where the CMO and her family were pictured.

The government's advice/instruction have been not to travel for exercise and certainly not to camp or go to second homes. The Health Protection Regs also do not list such activities as reasonable excuses to leave the home.

When the CMO goes against the advice/instructions she has been a major part of and her actions breach the law, she has to go.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...dest-warns-ifs

Yes they prefer 'experts' from organisations with ordinary names. Like "Taxpayers Alliance".

And unnecessary driving also puts other people at risk whether it's fellow drivers, the emergency services who may have to respond to any accident you may have or breakdown services coming out after the car has broken down.

If there is a large influx of people then there's also a risk that the local medical services could be overwhelmed.

Staying put is such a good idea - then again as someone living in an Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty with access to lots of lovely walks from my front door I would say that :o

Something I've found is that with the roads so much quieter a small number of drivers are using it as an opportunity to speed and not give way.

A comment on your ranting against experts. Again.

I am also lucky, with a garden and lots of public space around us, that is not an AONB, so it does not attract tourists.

I do feel sorry for those in flats in the city and think that parks need to be organised so they can be used, but safely. For example, councils could have upturned benches, allowed designated sunbathing in controlled areas and introduced one way walking on paths.

Here:


You might want to check your early posts in the general Covid thread before getting too self-righteous.

ETA - this was your first post in the thread:

How's that hype looking now?

But said with politeness and panache.

I'll take that as a yes, and just note your evasion on the other points.

I was quite right to do so - and almost everyone agrees. Even Nicola Sturgeon, following her serious political misjudgement, has now been forced into a U-turn, and was trying to pretend on morning TV that she hadn't made a mistake by initially striving to keep the Chief Medical Officer in her job.

A clever Scottish newspaper headline had a picture of the Chief Medical Officer with the caption 'Hypocritic Oaf" :roll:

I am assuming Johnson is actually seriously ill. The government advice via the NHSs is that you only go to hospital if your symptoms become severe and that usually means breathing difficulties.

The BBC article I read said he'd been admitted because of "persistent symptoms", which surely means those symptoms haven't changed.

Now been changed: ....Boris Johnson is still in hospital suffering from coronavirus and had a “comfortable night” but No 10 has dropped the description of his symptoms as mild...

And ..... The Guardian was told last week that Johnson was more seriously ill than either he or his officials were prepared to admit, and that he was being seen by doctors who were concerned about his breathing......

From: https://www.theguardian.com/politics...e_iOSApp_Other