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-   -   Continuation The Trump Presidency: Part 25 (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=346437)

Skeptic Ginger 15th October 2020 03:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TragicMonkey (Post 13258926)
There's also already a more than sufficient supply of shouting. I don't feel "we" need to add to that.
I'm only shouting because the same liberal disinformation keeps being repeated and repeated.

I'm waiting on the rest of Trump's comment before correcting my post if called for.

Skeptic Ginger 15th October 2020 03:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13258910)
What is false, he is pleased and excited that the Feds just shot the guy out of hand. It's the way he thinks the law should work. He has history here right back to the central Park 5.
Due Process is not something he cares about.
There's no question about that.

What "they" referred to in the quote is what's in question: "We sent in the US Marshals, they knew who he was, they didn’t want to arrest him and 15 minutes that ended."

Isn't it bad enough Trump said "there has to be retributions"?

jerrywayne 15th October 2020 03:29 PM
Sen. Sasse gets candid about Trump.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...spm&stream=top

Skeptic Ginger 15th October 2020 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13258934)
There's no question about that.

What "they" referred to in the quote is what's in question: "We sent in the US Marshals, they knew who he was, they didn’t want to arrest him and 15 minutes that ended."

Isn't it bad enough Trump said "there has to be retributions"?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13258900)
Bollocks, that's his interpretation. he's reaching for that.
Here's Zig's post from the fascism thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggurat (Post 13258738)
Yeah, no.

That's a truncated quote which removed critical context. "They" as in "They didn’t want to arrest him" isn't referring to the federal marshals, it's referring to the state police. He wasn't saying the marshals wanted to kill him instead of arrest him. Trump was saying that the state police didn't want to arrest this guy for days, so he sent in the federal marshals and they got him right away.

You can see the whole speech here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wk3dtcnujak
He talks at length about civil unrest that he says could be solved quickly with law enforcement intervention. The part specifically about Reinoehl starts at about 17:25. Here's a fuller transcript:

"And the man that shot another innocent man, this was an innocent man shot, killed, instantly killed. I said, "what happened?" "Well we haven't arrested him". Two days, three days went by. We sent in the US Marshalls. Took 15 minutes, it was over. 15 minutes it was over, we got him. They knew who he was, they didn't want to arrest him. 15 minutes that ended."

It doesn't actually make sense that Trump would brag about a hit, and not surprisingly, he didn't. The fact that you believed the lie so easily, though, that's a problem. Will you try to solve it? Stay tuned....
Who do you think "they" refers to?


There is no reason to gin this up. It's bad enough as it is without that.

Minoosh 15th October 2020 03:45 PM
Trump's language usage is so convoluted that efforts to parse it can lead to misunderstandings. "They" is, I think, state/local police and the U.S. marshals saved the day. However, Trump might also believe that summary execution was entirely appropriate. He doesn't really get nuances like "innocent until proven guilty."

ETA: Love it that Trump's "innocent man" was armed with bear spray AND a flex baton AND a handgun, and by some accounts was actively bear-spraying Reinoehl's friend when Reinoehl took him neatly out with 2 shots. Too bad I guess that he fired the second shot, because the first shot took the guy out of commission.

I also believe Reinoehl would have been willing to turn himself in, based on a videotaped statement he made, but I could be wrong.

Minoosh 15th October 2020 04:03 PM
But per Zig's post:

Quote:
It doesn't actually make sense that Trump would brag about a hit
Since when does anything Trump says have to "make sense"? He could be bragging about a hit; it would not be totally out of character. At this point he probably doesn't even know what he meant, but I'm not sure he understands the argument against summary execution. Pretty sure the U.S. Marshals Service does, though.

Norman Alexander 15th October 2020 04:15 PM
Trump is a wannabe mafia gangster. He opines about these shooting "hits" the same way baseball fans talk about famous home run hits.

Minoosh 15th October 2020 04:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander (Post 13259005)
Trump is a wannabe mafia gangster. He opines about these shooting "hits" the same way baseball fans talk about famous home run hits.
Plausible, but I don't think that's what happened here.

Dr.Sid 15th October 2020 04:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13258933)
I'm only shouting because the same liberal disinformation keeps being repeated and repeated.

I'm waiting on the rest of Trump's comment before correcting my post if called for.
You shouting because you think your opinion is more important that opinion of others. That's natural, but not polite.

Andy_Ross 15th October 2020 04:58 PM
White House was warned Giuliani was target of Russian intelligence operation to feed misinformation to Trump

U.S. intelligence agencies believed Russian agents were ‘working’ Trump’s personal lawyer to disseminate misinformation about the Bidens.
washingtonpost.com

Aridas 15th October 2020 05:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza (Post 13258630)
Hunter Biden should have a really easy libel lawsuit case here.

Against Guiliani, Bannon, the NYP, Fox, OANN and the shop owner.
With Fox's defense of Carlson as a guide - No reasonable or well informed person would believe the crap being spewed or the sources, therefore, Hunter loses.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza (Post 13258765)
They should have quit en masse instead of covering for Trump.
Unlawful or immoral orders shouldn't be followed.
The CDC brought this on itself for putting the Executive above the Science.
Easy to say, harder to do - especially in times of financial uncertainty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13258883)
This is not what's happening, it's what the news media is making headlines out of.

They are collecting GOP ballots in GOP locations: inside campaign headquarters, inside churches and inside gun stores.
Size and highlight removed, just because. And... nothing you said actually conflicts or refutes what I poked at. The GOP is making a point to prevent or remove any claim that they are "official" ballot boxes, sure, though.

To poke further at the sides to the argument -

GOP side

Quote:
It turns out, the local Republican parties in several counties, including at least Fresno, Los Angeles, Ventura and Orange counties, came together to place boxes at Republican-friendly locations to collect ballots, and they even announced their plans online. Those drop-off locations included local Republican party offices, candidate headquarters, gun stores and churches.

Republicans say their collection of ballots is no different than the practice of "ballot harvesting" where a third party collects signed ballot envelopes.

"Because ballot harvesting is legal, we wanted to be open about it," says Fresno County GOP Chairman Fred Vanderhoof. "We let people know on Facebook and social media that they could drop their ballot at a secure ballot box and we'll take it down for them."
State side -

Quote:
Ballot harvesting is used in some cases where voters lack transportation, are elderly or disabled or are in the hospital, and the third party must sign the ballot as a witness. Because the unofficial ballot boxes are unmanned, the state says it's not the same as ballot harvesting.

Secretary of State Alex Padilla says it's illegal to put out unofficial ballot boxes and collect votes, even though it is legal to turn in someone else's ballot.

"Today, the Secretary of State's office, jointly with the (California) Department of Justice, issued a cease and desist order to the California Republican party to remove these dropboxes," Padilla said.

The individuals responsible for putting out the boxes have until Thursday to comply with the cease and desist order.

Padilla reminded voters only to use official ballot drop boxes deployed and secured by a county elections office.

Becerra says those who choose to leave boxes out, knowing it is against state law, are at risk of criminal or civil charges.
So, what there is liberal disinformation, specifically?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Minoosh (Post 13258967)
I also believe Reinoehl would have been willing to turn himself in, based on a videotaped statement he made, but I could be wrong.
I'd say that point is a little more complicated. IIRC, Reinoehl made it clear that he was distinctly concerned about his safety if he turned himself in because of the violent white supremacists in law enforcement - but was willing to cooperate with the legal system and go to court to present his case, where he believed that he had a strong case for self-defense.

Elagabalus 15th October 2020 05:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13259047)
White House was warned Giuliani was target of Russian intelligence operation to feed misinformation to Trump

U.S. intelligence agencies believed Russian agents were ‘working’ Trump’s personal lawyer to disseminate misinformation about the Bidens.
washingtonpost.com
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b1059631.html

Skeptic Ginger 15th October 2020 06:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aridas (Post 13259082)
Size and highlight removed, just because. And... nothing you said actually conflicts or refutes what I poked at. The GOP is making a point to prevent or remove any claim that they are "official" ballot boxes, sure, though.

To poke further at the sides to the argument -

GOP side

State side -

So, what there is liberal disinformation, specifically?
Implying the ballot boxes are a nefarious attempt to toss Democratic ballots.

Aridas 15th October 2020 07:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13259116)
Implying the ballot boxes are a nefarious attempt to toss Democratic ballots.
I see. Will you be kind enough to admit that you were very emphatically attacking a straw man and retract your objection, then, given that said claim has very little to do with what I said in what you quoted, and nor do either of the links that I poked at claim what you're attacking as liberal disinformation?

Otherwise, you, yourself, are engaging in disinformation.

SezMe 15th October 2020 09:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horatius (Post 13258484)
Screw that, it doesn't take a "lawsuit" to enforce a law. Send in the cops to remove the boxes from every location you know about, and arrest everyone who is even remotely related to placing them there, and charge them with a crime.

And then hold them without bail, since the California GOP's attitude makes it clear that they are almost certainly going to re-offend if allowed out on bail. Let the ************* sit in jail for six months while their case drags through the courts.

Wash, rinse, repeat for every new Republican ************ who tries to keep this **** going.
Yes, yes, yes. A little cooling off period in the local slammer eating green bologna sandwiches would work wonders.

SezMe 15th October 2020 09:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13258528)
You see that's why most Dictator wannabes start their own propaganda network instead of just assuming a social media network is going to be okay with doing it.
Yeah, well, that is exactly what Trump was doing when he rode down that escalator. Then things went horribly wrong and he stated to win. The rallies with thousands of cheering idiots fans grabbed hm by the short and curlies and wouldn't let go. Then it rock hit bottom: he won!

Worse yet, the Law of Unintended Consequences took hold and his finances got the attention of the Powers That Be that would never come to the public's attention if he just remained a New York playboy with a loud mouth. Now he's more than in hot water, he's in criminal hot water not just tax evasion hot water. It is, as far as I can tell, the only redeeming feature of this whole mess.

Skeptic Ginger 15th October 2020 09:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aridas (Post 13259171)
I see. Will you be kind enough to admit that you were very emphatically attacking a straw man and retract your objection, then, given that said claim has very little to do with what I said in what you quoted, and nor do either of the links that I poked at claim what you're attacking as liberal disinformation?

Otherwise, you, yourself, are engaging in disinformation.
Why all the focus on 'it's illegal', and why are people outraged about it?

And what about Horatius' post explaining how the CA law enforcement should be carried out to remove the boxes?

SezMe 15th October 2020 09:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13258883)
<snip>
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13258896)
<snip>
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13258900)
<snip>
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13258904)
<snip>
I don't need the shouting in vivid technicolor to get your point.

Skeptic Ginger 15th October 2020 10:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SezMe (Post 13259252)
I don't need the shouting in vivid technicolor to get your point.
I'm just tired of repeating the same discrediting information and hearing the misinformation repeated with no one addressing the issues.

The GOP boxes in CA were not some surreptitious attempt to trick liberals into depositing their ballots so they could be culled. The GOP rep had a decent argument for the boxes. That is what the discussion should be about. Instead there's some ludicrous outrage. People here sound like the people we are complaining about.

And I went back and looked at Trump's quote. Zig was right. You know how often I say that? Never, except he knows some stuff about physics. The quote is there. "They" referred to the Portland police.

Why are people distorting this when Trump's actual quote about retribution being necessary was more than atrocious enough?

Hlafordlaes 15th October 2020 10:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13258883)
This is not what's happening, it's what the news media is making headlines out of.

They are collecting GOP ballots in GOP locations: inside campaign headquarters, inside churches and inside gun stores.
I don't give a flying **** if Jesus himself will be standing by the count. The boxes can be a source of unending conflict, starting with any future claims (wait for them!) that the boxes were not, gee, treated as official.

You want official, you go official. The rest is knuckle-dragging nonsense designed to obfuscate and create confusion.

Skeptic Ginger 15th October 2020 11:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes (Post 13259268)
I don't give a flying **** if Jesus himself will be standing by the count. The boxes can be a source of unending conflict, starting with any future claims (wait for them!) that the boxes were not, gee, treated as official.

You want official, you go official. The rest is knuckle-dragging nonsense designed to obfuscate and create confusion.
See, here's an example. There is no evidence that is the goal of the CA GOP. Remember there is no question CA will vote for Biden. It isn't close and not subject to a serious challenge.

So is there a down ballot issue you think the GOP is going to challenge the votes on because of their own ballot boxes?

Blue Mountain 15th October 2020 11:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elagabalus (Post 13259083)
White House was told Russia targeted Giuliani to feed misinformation to Trump, report says [The Guardian]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrywayne (Post 13258943)
Sen. Sasse gets candid about Trump.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...spm&stream=top

Exclusive: GOP Sen. Sasse says Trump 'kisses dictators' butts' and mocks evangelicals [Washington Examiner]

I fixed your links for you. Please see The campaign for good linking: please don't post raw links without giving some sort of idea as to what the link contains. Also, please trim your links to remove tracking information.

Aridas 16th October 2020 12:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13259251)
Why all the focus on 'it's illegal',
Because it fairly certainly is. Yes, I get that this is the Trump era, where Republicans openly and brazenly flout the law, but crime should not be normalized.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13259251)
and why are people outraged about it?
:confused:

Are you of the crowd that only values things like electoral integrity and security when you think they will benefit "your side?" Similarly, Rule of Law? Should people stop being offended by rank hypocrisy in politics?

Either way, it sure looks like you've seized upon just ONE of the potential concerns - one of the less impactful and less likely ones, really - and are harping on it as if that's all anyone could possibly be concerned about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13259251)
And what about Horatius' post explaining how the CA law enforcement should be carried out to remove the boxes?
That's Horatius' post. If you want to make a response to it, make your response to it, not throw out a generalized LIBERAL DISINFORMATION towards what you seem to admit is actual fact.

Lurch 16th October 2020 12:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13259281)
See, here's an example. There is no evidence that is the goal of the CA GOP. Remember there is no question CA will vote for Biden. It isn't close and not subject to a serious challenge.

So is there a down ballot issue you think the GOP is going to challenge the votes on because of their own ballot boxes?
I wouldn't be so quick to ascribe innocent motives to the GOP on anything. These ballot boxes could well be a means to nefarious plans. In a state that's assuredly lost to them at least as regards the Presidential vote, there's hardly a downside to sacrificing those collected votes if some 'accident' were to occur and thus give ammunition to a claim of 'uncertainty' in the result.

If we can imagine it, those scumbags will. And worse, because these are desperate times for them.

The Don 16th October 2020 12:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13259281)
See, here's an example. There is no evidence that is the goal of the CA GOP. Remember there is no question CA will vote for Biden. It isn't close and not subject to a serious challenge.

So is there a down ballot issue you think the GOP is going to challenge the votes on because of their own ballot boxes?
You're right, the California GOP haven't been clear what their motives for installing illegal ballot boxes are. Upthread, I offered a number of possible motives.

That said, if you're of a conspiratorial mindset, the GOP in California isn't going to be pulling up trees so why not sacrifice California (by dumping ballots) to create national doubt.

Ethan Thane Athen 16th October 2020 12:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrywayne (Post 13258943)
Sen. Sasse gets candid about Trump.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...spm&stream=top
Wow, that's powerful stuff.

I don't agree with his politics (and his view on how disastrous democrats would be) but, based purely on this sound clip, he comes across as an honest, thoughtful, passionate politician who I could respect whilst disagreeing with.

So will it be 'fake news' when a Republican Senator says Trump mocks evangelicals behind their backs? Presumably the RINO challenges will come thick and fast, which is ironic as he comes across as very Republican - indeed his criticism of Trump is that he is not being Republican.

Loved the 'TV loving narcissist' bit.

Andy_Ross 16th October 2020 04:30 AM
Trump Tweets

Wow, this has never been done in history. This includes his really bad interview last night. Why is Twitter doing this. Bringing more attention to Sleepy Joe & Big T
Quote Tweet

Twitter Shuts Down Entire Network To Slow Spread Of Negative Biden News
SAN FRANCISCO, CA—In a last-ditch effort to stop negative stories about Joe Biden and his family from spreading, Twitter shut down its entire social network Thursday.After seeing account after...
babylonbee.com

Firestone 16th October 2020 04:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13259394)
Trump Tweets

Wow, this has never been done in history. This includes his really bad interview last night. Why is Twitter doing this. Bringing more attention to Sleepy Joe & Big T
Quote Tweet

Twitter Shuts Down Entire Network To Slow Spread Of Negative Biden News
SAN FRANCISCO, CA—In a last-ditch effort to stop negative stories about Joe Biden and his family from spreading, Twitter shut down its entire social network Thursday.After seeing account after...
babylonbee.com
:jaw-dropp

Although I fully trust Captain_Swoop, for this one I had to check Twitter to ascertain it was a real tweet.

It is ...

No words ...

turingtest 16th October 2020 04:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13259394)
Trump Tweets

Wow, this has never been done in history. This includes his really bad interview last night. Why is Twitter doing this. Bringing more attention to Sleepy Joe & Big T
Quote Tweet

Twitter Shuts Down Entire Network To Slow Spread Of Negative Biden News
SAN FRANCISCO, CA—In a last-ditch effort to stop negative stories about Joe Biden and his family from spreading, Twitter shut down its entire social network Thursday.After seeing account after...
babylonbee.com
Oh my dear lord. This tweet will disappear soon, I think- the President of the United States just tweeted an article about Twitter shutting down completely, without any apparent awareness that the article is satire, and the Babylon Bee is a satire site, a conservative Onion wannabe. More evidence, if it's needed, that conservatives really don't quite get the concept of humor.

Aidoneus 16th October 2020 04:45 AM
Yep, looks like the tweet is gone.

turingtest 16th October 2020 04:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firestone (Post 13259396)
:jaw-dropp

Although I fully trust Captain_Swoop, for this one I had to check Twitter to ascertain it was a real tweet.

It is ...

No words ...
Yup. Let's see how long before it gets memory-holed.

There's just no getting around it- for all the Trumpers screaming about Biden's mental capacities, Trumps really is just a complete ******* moron.

ETA- still up as of this edit.

Firestone 16th October 2020 04:56 AM
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by turingtest (Post 13259402)
Yup. Let's see how long before it gets memory-holed.

There's just no getting around it- for all the Trumpers screaming about Biden's mental capacities, Trumps really is just a complete ******* moron.

ETA- still up as of this edit.
It's 4D chess, apparently. :faint:

Attachment 43282

Andy_Ross 16th October 2020 04:57 AM
it's the second time Trump has posted a Bab Bee story.

Andy_Ross 16th October 2020 04:59 AM
Trump Retweeted

James Woods
@RealJamesWoods
Number one!!!!! I can’t call you my “followers,” because you are so much more than that. You are truly my heroes. #CrookedJoeBiden is trending NUMBER ONE in Politics, and the mainstream media can no longer cover for him. Thank you, patriots.

turingtest 16th October 2020 05:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firestone (Post 13259404)
It's 4D chess, apparently. :faint:

Attachment 43282
Wow. That is how Trump has been able to get away with his con for so long- there's just never any shortage of idiots ready to do the heavy lifting of dedicated and uncritical belief that anything he says must be genius.

Armitage72 16th October 2020 05:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by turingtest (Post 13259411)
Wow. That is how Trump has been able to get away with his con for so long- there's just never any shortage of idiots ready to do the heavy lifting of dedicated and uncritical belief that anything he says must be genius.

It reminds me of when Frank Miller lost his mind and started writing complete rubbish, and some of his fans insisted that he was writing brilliant deliberate parodies of his earlier quality work.

Safe-Keeper 16th October 2020 05:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by turingtest (Post 13259411)
Wow. That is how Trump has been able to get away with his con for so long- there's just never any shortage of idiots ready to do the heavy lifting of dedicated and uncritical belief that anything he says must be genius.
It reminds me a lot of religious people twisting Abrahamic scripture to try to make it compatible with the 21st century.

Craig4 16th October 2020 05:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob001 (Post 13258467)
What makes you think a lawsuit will stop it?
https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/14/polit...ist/index.html
This is white privilege in action. If a black group were doing it, the LAPD would **** them up six ways from Sunday. Since it's well-off, white Republicans, they're going to court. It's it's against law, arrest the people doing it.

Segnosaur 16th October 2020 06:14 AM
Re: Senator Sasse criticising Trump...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Thane Athen (Post 13259321)
Wow, that's powerful stuff.

I don't agree with his politics (and his view on how disastrous democrats would be) but, based purely on this sound clip, he comes across as an honest, thoughtful, passionate politician who I could respect whilst disagreeing with.
Yes he certainly showed a lot of integrity when he stood up to Trump all those times in the Senate.

No wait... He voted to confirm Trump's nominees along with the rest of the republican senators. And when he actually had a chance to try to remove this blight from office (i.e. the impeachment)? Again, he stood silent.

I guess the question is, why criticize Trump now, since I don't think he is not running for re-election this year. I suspect it is because he thinks Trump will lose and he wants to position himself as an anti-trumper early (perhaps for his own long-term political goals) even though he supports the Stubby Mcbonespurs/Moscow Mitch agenda. That is not being honest or passionate, that is being a crass opportunist.

Sent from my LM-X320 using Tapatalk

JoeMorgue 16th October 2020 06:16 AM
Yeah a lot of Republicans are going to start to try and impress us with some version of "Trump? Oh I always hated Trump" now that it no longer matters.

And again hasn't the fact that a lot of Republicans criticize Trump behind closed doors but fold in public not exactly been a secret for a while now?


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