My PDF has 1,150 hits this month. Was one of them you, Steve? You're name is on page 23.

Shucks, now you kinda have to look at it.

Don't forget, Ace Baker said it was impossible to fake the [LIVE] NBC Chopper4 shot... so he claimed it wasn't live.

Most importantly you should focus on the engine that easily ripped through the building and flew out the corner section where there was no steel beam on that floor (p. 61). Think. How did the engine get to where it landed, still smoking hot, after hitting the building at 50 Murray St. and shedding other parts across its trajectory?

The only possible answer is that a 767 hit the WTC, just like people saw and heard ...and afterward smelled.

Finally, consider that at least 73 of the passengers on the two planes were identified by DNA from recovered remains (p. 5)... not counting 4 of the terrorists identified by DNA (p.8). Your "planted" and "fake" responses come too easily. Your best evidence seems to be bent metal in a chaotic crash. Start over and consider planes. Holmgren and Baker were musicians. Maybe listen to their music.

And that's a handwave.

Wasn't a question? Everything and everyone on that list raises literally hundreds of questions, all of which fly directly in the face of no-planer lunacy.

Given your track record, It wouldn't be surprising when the horse turns out to be an aardvark.

I've had multiple concussiuons through the years but even that doesn't make your fantasy construct any more believable.

Nice bit of evidences that would mean something to anyone with half a brain.

You would need an actual argument for that, not just some pictures with arrows drawn all over it.

You have no evidence.

Name the people involved in making the fake videos.

Name the people who put the fake videos on the air.

Name the people in charge of suppressing the truth.

You're a hick who's never been to Manhattan and then your intellectual capacity declines from there.

There seems a strange paradox here.

According to Yankee, all the news videos, still pictures, eyewitness accounts, amateur videos, and expert analyses, are clever and complicated fakes. An enormous conspiracy of fakery has occurred right under our very noses. Our faith in everything ought to be shaken.

And yet, his evidence is a scant few pictures, including, if I'm not mistaken, some from the same sources condemned as unreliable, and the only reason we have to believe that they are not doctored is.....faith?

^
Bingo.

But there's a huge problem here. We have a lot of evidence two jet aircraft hit the towers (which I admit you don't accept): eyewitnesses, TV footage, DNA from the scene that matches with missing passengers, bereaved families, kids who grew up without a mother and/father, parents mourning their dead children, life insurance payouts to beneficiaries of the deceased, bits and pieces that match with the missing aircraft. If you're saying that aircraft did not impact the tower, you have to explain away all this evidence. You simply can't ignore it because it looks like to you the holes in the towers don't match up with your idea of what the holes should look like.

Only after you've satisfactorily explained what happened to the 236 missing people and the four missing aircraft can you get around to drawing up elaborate hypotheses about how the damage was done to the towers.

And don't come back to me with the line "well, those are all just media lies." 9/11 was a huge event and the media is (more accurately, are) not a monolithic entity. There were thousands, if not millions, of individual stories files by thousands of individual reporters all over the world. Is every single one of these reporters in on the scam? The idea that a shadowy organization could co-ordinate such a media misinformation campaign over twenty years without having a single whistle-blower coming forward strains credulity to the breaking point.

^

And Bingo was his name-o.

That's because it is nonsensical not logical and Irrelevant.
A plane being composed of Aluminum covering an Aluminium steel bulkhead and wing spars that are strong enough to support the landing gear on take off and landing would easily punch though the thin steel Columns.
That makes your opinion not evidence worthless, because it is just your uneducated opinion.

The fantasy of magical planes that cut through steel, bore through concrete, and burrow into the ground, ends when one examines the evidence with an open mind.

The fantasy of missiles which didn't exist and weren't seen and fail to explain all the other evidence of planes and their passengers does not appear to be a rational substitute.

A mind that open is called a TBI by medical professionals.

When should we expect you to start doing this? The third Tuesday of the month?

Might want to study up on kinetic energy.

19 years of no physics? Enough time to earn a PhD or two
 

Oops, touching the evidence proves your claims are nonsesene at best.


So true, and autobiographical.


Knowledge of physics would kill this nonsense. Physics! - why have you banned it.


An "open mind" in this case, like an open marriage and the wife left.

There used to be a series on the TV called 'Time Team' it was an arcehology show.

In a few episodes they excavated crashed WW2 aircraft. One that I remember was a Douglas A-26 Invader. It flew in to the ground at full throttle after it collided with another A-26 at low altitude over England.
Another was a B-17 that went in nose first at high speed.

Both aircraft were destroyed on impact and the remains burrowed deep in to the ground. Parts from the A-26 were over 20 feet down in hard clay soil.
Why wouldn't a huge airliner at full throttle burrow in to the ground?

1. Not all steel is created equal.

2. Concrete fractures with the popper amount of force.

3. Air craft, especially large aircraft will burrow into the ground at the end of a high speed dive.

None of this is speculation and there are thousands of examples of these things happening.

Fun story, in 2000 a guy jumped off the Stratosphere Hotel in Las Vegas. He landed upright in a sitting position 1,100 feet below. The impact combined with the angle caused his spine to be driven into the concrete sidewalk and his body had to be jack-hammered out.

Physics is fun.

Along with trigonometry and both negate his beliefs.

I jumped off the Stratosphere a couple of weeks ago. But I used a harness. It was kind of amazing.

I think a big problem that Steve has is not understanding the strength properties of the steel plate in the columns on the 94th to the 98th floors. It was 1/2" thick.

That plate being hit by a large jet at 500mph would fail in an instant.

Steel they were... but not intended to resist the lateral forces represented by the place. Don't be fooled by the OAL dimensions of the boxes... the plates up there were pretty thin.

I don’t think this has been posted yet, so here is an extremely detailed breakdown and analysis of the physics of the collision of the planes with the twin towers that was prepared by experts at MIT: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc...=rep1&type=pdf

There’s also at least two metabunk threads discussing this topic:

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/how...-4#post-216889

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/loo...l-facade.9397/

Nothing new under the sun. And trutherland has only become stupider and more intellectually stagnant as time has gone on, as yankee451 ably demonstrates.

I wouldn't be surprised if his injuries were fatal.

Ships in the Bering Sea rupture their hulls by running into ice. The fastest these ships generally travel in ice is about 8 knots per hour (less than 10 mph.) The thickness of the hulls is usually not more than 5/8" thick-which is THICKER than the steel in the columns.

I'm pretty sure that Steve suffers from the simplistic misconception that when objects made of two different materials collide, harder or stronger material "wins", and only the weaker or softer material is damaged. In the real world, it just doesn't work that way, especially the impact happens at a high velocity. I realize I've made this point many times, but I live in Colorado, where, in many areas of the mountains, snow avalanches are a frequent occurrence. These commonly break trees, sometimes trees that are several inches in diameter. Yes, a mass of unconsolidated snow, moving at high velocity (but considerably lower velocity than the planes on 9/11 were moving), can snap off a thick, strong tree. I don't find anything the least bit remarkable about aluminum planes moving at several hundred miles per hour breaking steel beams.

N334AA went into WTC 1 at approximately 494 MPH with 92 people aboard.
N612UA went into WTC 2 at approximately 586 MPH with 65 people aboard.
N644AA went into The Pentagon at approximately 527 MPH with 64 People aboard.
N591UA went into the ground at approximately 563 MPH with 44 people aboard.

Two questions for Steve - What, in your learned opinion, should've happened to these planes upon their impacts?

What happened to the 265 people aboard the planes? Their families might like to know.

Fire a length of aircraft grade aluminum lengthways at 800 kph towards a length of 2cm thick construction grade steel held sideways and the aluminium would definitely win.

And this is not true, your "evidence" has been dealt with over and over.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bzq4envlul...acts.jpg?raw=1

and and no-planers can't even be led to facts!

Shortly after 00:14:28 GMT on June 30, 1908 ...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9ktrge6s1x...ska1.jpg?raw=1

... all this was done by nothing but air!

Have you got any evidence of missiles?
For example: pieces of debris, radar tracking of missiles, specifics about where these missiles were fired from, specifics of who fired them, whistleblower statements from anyone involved in any part of the transport, launching or clean-up operations, inventory lists showing missing missiles....anything?
I am quite happy to examine your evidence with an open mind, but all you've done so far is post some pictures from (as has been pointed out) the same sources you claim are faked, with some arrows on them. That isn't what you'd call conclusive, is it?

Truther claims are begin with two foundations:

A. all media and government reports / accounts are false and deliberate lies... told to hide the true agenda

B. what they see in pics and vids could not possibly be caused by planes hitting buildings or the ground.

(A) is sometimes and somewhat true. We accept PR and spin and so on as normal.

(B) requires some level of technical knowledge or acceptance of what those who have it say.

Both (A) and (B) reinforce each other and create an endless loop with no way out.

There were no planes, you're not keeping up! It was missiles!

Facts negated, Yankee wins!

You can lead a horse to water but a pencil must be lead. :boxedin:

Bahaha :)

An open mind is necessary, but so is knowledge of the physical dynamics of moving and impacted objects and structures, and the tools (primarily mathematical) for applying that knowledge.

You have done no mathematics. What you have are what Dave Rogers calls unevaluated inequalities. You claim that the force of impact by airplane wings are less than the force required to cause the observed deformation of the wall columns, but you have not quantified either of those forces. You claim that the force of impact and detonation of a missile equals the force required to cause the observed deformation of the columns, but you have not quantified either of those forces. The creation of those forces involve speeds and masses and strengths that are well outside the range anyone is intuitively familiar with. They can only be understood and compared by careful calculation, which you have not done. You insist that x is greater than y and z is equal to y, but you cannot say what x, y, or z are.

When others who do know how to evaluate and compare x, y, and z tell you you're wrong, you reply with accusations and insults instead of calculations of your own.

That's why your ideas are unpersuasive. They fail to qualify for admission into even the openest of minds.

Have they even bothered to identify which missile system was used? The entry gash in the tower was massive. I guess it could have been caused by a missile if it were going sideways as they tend to not do.

I'm guessing they know less about missiles than they do about airplanes.
But that shouldn't stop them from saying it was X.

A bunch of people have responded to, questioned Steve's presentation. They have because it simply does not make sense. Nothing will change Steve's mind.

More interesting is what happened to Steve's mind?

He did what most conspiracy minded people do-he started with a conclusion and began working backwards. Lots of bad things happen when you do that. Before long your "reasoning" becomes as succinct as the star wars sequel trilogy.

See: Earth, Flat.

Classic example - Howard Donahue's conclusion that since he could duplicate LHO's shooting, LHO couldn't have fired the shots.

See also, forcing the square block of conspiracy into the round hole of reality

:thumbsup:

If I look back at my weird years at JREF/ISF in 25 years or so, I think Dave's Unevaluated Inequality Fallacy may be one of the few practical wisdoms with universal applicability I shall have learned here that are (I think) original to this place.

Conversely, I believe it was Marcus Allen, who described in a live recorded video presentation that he was unable to duplicate picture of Gene Cernan and the Earth and therefore the image was fake and Apollo was a fraud/fake. Only in the minds of CTs and individuals that really don't think about what was said and how it was said. Of course Marcus could not have frame Gene Cernan and the Earth, as he wasn't on the Moon doing the framing. But he couldn't get a frame correctly that would have been what would have been needed to take the image.

Foam vs. carbon-reinforced panel?

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

One of two things:

1. He's a troll.

2. He has high-functioning Aspergers.

Either way he gets off on the attention.

That pretty much covers it.

Some folks that make the rounds on various sites and post this or similar nonsense seem to be attention driven or impaired.

When are you going to start presenting evidence that backs your theories so far you have debunked Yourself, a plane made from aluminum hitting a steel building should produce exactly the evidence you have shown.
Thanks for nothing.

Depleted Uranium is way softer than Tank Armor yet in the first gulf war it was used in A10 wart hogs against tanks because like aluminum it was Pyrophoric on impact.

I’ve been to the Columbia Recovery Room at the Vehicle Assembly Building and seen the results of this firsthand - insulating foam vs. the ultrahard reinforced carbon-carbon leading edge of the port wing, leading to an impossible result according to the ignorant and frankly delusional OP.

That is true if all conspiracy theorists, including the one in the White house right now, Scary isn't it?