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-   -   MAGA brats mock Native American with "build the wall" chants (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=334324)

plague311 20th January 2019 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolrab (Post 12570571)
To equate anything the children did with any of the lies, hate, and provocation from the adults is ludicrous. Those kids are way classier than all those scumbags that had their children saying and holding signs with "**** Donald Trump" in other protests.


The ******** doxing these kids and threatening violence should be arrested. Any groups those ******** belong to should have all their assets seized as hate groups.

That's a little aggressive, don't you think? This "doxing" you're referring to happens by the right to those on the left as well. It sucks, but it sounds like a lot of people are seeing this interaction for what it was.

This is a prime example of what someone stated before. The 1st Amendment applies to everyone, whether you like it or not, and that's all that doxing and protesting is. Sorry you don't like it, build a bridge.

RolandRat 20th January 2019 10:05 AM

What actually is a "race grifter"?

BobTheCoward 20th January 2019 10:06 AM

When I first heard that a teenager was mocking a native American drummer, I was really hoping he said, "you can't do that on the balcony, buddy?"

It wasn't.

The Big Dog 20th January 2019 10:08 AM

To clarify, the Native American guy who confronted the high schoolers was taking the side of an actual hate group, as defined by the SPLC.

The race grifters ignore that fact, and now the actual targets of an actual hate group are getting death threats from The Resistance.

Ryokan 20th January 2019 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim (Post 12570529)
Oh, and yes schools should endorse protesting. There were a hell of a lot of people that approved of schools endorsing the recent protests where kids walked out of class and/or marched in order to try to get more restrictions on guns. There were a hell of a lot of people who criticised the schools that punished the pupils that did so.

It works both ways. If you think schools should endorse pupils protesting against guns, you have to allow schools to endorse pupils protesting against abortions. You can't agree with one and disagree with the other just because you agree with one cause and disagree with the other. That's not what free speech is.

If the students take the initiative and organize it, sure. There's nothing better.

If the school organizes it? That's something completely different, isn't it? I don't think schools should tell students what opinions to have and what they should protest.

baron 20th January 2019 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardian
In a separate video uploaded to social media, the 64-year-old Phillips, an elder of Nebraska’s Omaha tribe, wiped away tears as he described the incident...

He told The Washington Post that while he was drumming, he thought about his wife, Shoshana, who died of bone marrow cancer nearly four years ago, and the threats that indigenous communities around the world are facing.

“I felt like the spirit was talking through me,” Phillips said.

He invokes the memory of his dead wife to demonise a school kid with whom he tried to provoke a confrontation. He sounds a real gem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiki
Another January 2019 article in the Washington Post described Phillips as a "a veteran in the indigenous rights movement"

I doubt the indigenous Vietnamese would share that view of him.

kookbreaker 20th January 2019 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolandRat (Post 12570583)
What actually is a "race grifter"?

The latest way to shift blame, handwave everything, and pretend everything is fine AND THERE IS NO RACISM DAMMIT!!!

Brought to you by the Fair Play for Open Racists Committee.

kookbreaker 20th January 2019 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baron (Post 12570594)
He invokes the memory of his dead wife to demonise a school kid with whom he tried to provoke a confrontation. He sounds a real gem.
.

Let the Dead Agenting Begin!

(called it)

theprestige 20th January 2019 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolandRat (Post 12570583)
What actually is a "race grifter"?

The term seems scrutable enough to me.

baron 20th January 2019 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kookbreaker (Post 12570598)
Let the Dead Agenting Begin!

(called it)

Instead of being pompous maybe you can point out the lies that you claim I have posted. In your own time. And some of the racism from the video too. Make sure you ignore the dozens of instances of blatant racism that don't fit your agenda and concentrate on the white kids in hats, especially when one of them stands and looks at your hero there.

plague311 20th January 2019 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Dog (Post 12570589)
To clarify, the Native American guy who confronted the high schoolers was taking the side of an actual hate group, as defined by the SPLC.

The race grifters ignore that fact, and now the actual targets of an actual hate group are getting death threats from The Resistance.

From everything I've read, you're lying when you say that. He stated he was trying to defuse the situation by playing his prayer chant or whatever. He never said he was taking anyone's side and the entire thing was non-violent. If, as you've bellowed repeatedly, the "other side" was racist, and violent, why wasn't Mr. Phillips? Not everything that happens needs to be partisan and as mentioned before, sometimes all parties are just morons.

baron 20th January 2019 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plague311 (Post 12570604)
From everything I've read, you're lying when you say that. He stated he was trying to defuse the situation by playing his prayer chant or whatever.

What situation was he trying to defuse?

And would you say the best way of diffusing a situation is walking into the middle of a crowd of 100 people and, without saying a word, start banging a drum in their face? Why didn't he bang a drum at the agitators - the black group?

This guy is an activist and proven liar. Why are you so eager to take his side?

kookbreaker 20th January 2019 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baron (Post 12570603)
Instead of being pompous maybe you can point out the lies that you claim I have posted.

Or I can point out that you are attacking the victim in this matter.

Quote:

In your own time. And some of the racism from the video too.
If you haven't seen it already, there's no point in pointing it out to you anymore.

Quote:

Make sure you ignore the dozens of instances of blatant racism that don't fit your agenda and concentrate on the white kids in hats, especially when one of them stands and looks at your hero there.
Yes, I am more concerned about the punching down of a kids who wear the hats of an open racist. GO figure.

And yes, I am not fretting over their confrontation with the Black Israel group. I know what they are and I'm not caring that a bunch of kids got into a screaming match with them. I am worried that a bunch of said kids wearing a racists hat pulled a confrontation stare-down while mocking and surrounding Phillips, no matter how you try to rewrite the story.

So, as I predicted, Nathan Phillips is being Dead Agented, by you.

Its the post Charlottesville rewrite all over again.

kookbreaker 20th January 2019 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baron (Post 12570606)
This guy is an activist

Oh noes!

Quote:

and proven liar. Why are you so eager to take his side?
[/quote]

"Demonize this Phillips guy, FAST! He's making some spoiled white kids look bad!"

The Big Dog 20th January 2019 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plague311 (Post 12570604)
From everything I've read, you're lying when you say that. He stated he was trying to defuse the situation by playing his prayer chant or whatever. He never said he was taking anyone's side and the entire thing was non-violent. If, as you've bellowed repeatedly, the "other side" was racist, and violent, why wasn't Mr. Phillips? Not everything that happens needs to be partisan and as mentioned before, sometimes all parties are just morons.

The “other side” was the actual hate group of black hebrews.

He is lying because he confronted the high school kids instead of the actual hate group that was spewing actual homophobic and violent rhetoric.

Yet you accuse me of lying because of course you do.

Wolrab 20th January 2019 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plague311 (Post 12570577)
That's a little aggressive, don't you think? This "doxing" you're referring to happens by the right to those on the left as well. It sucks, but it sounds like a lot of people are seeing this interaction for what it was.

This is a prime example of what someone stated before. The 1st Amendment applies to everyone, whether you like it or not, and that's all that doxing and protesting is. Sorry you don't like it, build a bridge.

I can see doxing violet Nazis or Antifa thugs. Doxing a child for feeling uncomfortable while a full grown man is in his face is wrong. There have been violent threats made on a child. The First Amendment doesn't cover that.

The Big Dog 20th January 2019 10:33 AM

RACIST BLACK HEBREW ISRAELITES BECOMING MORE MILITANT

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-h...-more-militant

And Mr. Phillips had a single solid tear tumbling down his cheek when he confronted the high schoolers, ignoring the actual hate group.

Shalamar 20th January 2019 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kookbreaker (Post 12570618)
Oh noes!


"Demonize this Phillips guy, FAST! He's making some spoiled catholic white kids look bad!"[/quote]

An amendment for you to explain why some would blindly support the kids.

MRC_Hans 20th January 2019 10:39 AM

It seems to me that this is a bar brawl that has nothing to do with the actual event. I saw the video, and there appeared to be three groups, each following their own agenda and doing some chanting. There were mild confrontations between some of them and some mocking and yelling, but the situation didn't escalate and no violence happened.

What I saw were groups of people exerting their right to express their opinion. Some of these opinions I strongly disagree with, but that is beside the point. They seemed to mostly restrict themselves to verbal utterances, and it seems nobody was physically hurt. If you are mentally hurt by people expressing their opinion, stay away from such events.

In short .... what is the problem, here?

Hans

The Big Dog 20th January 2019 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRC_Hans (Post 12570632)
It seems to me that this is a bar brawl that has nothing to do with the actual event. I saw the video, and there appeared to be three groups, each following their own agenda and doing some chanting. There were mild confrontations between some of them and some mocking and yelling, but the situation didn't escalate and no violence happened.

What I saw were groups of people exerting their right to express their opinion. Some of these opinions I strongly disagree with, but that is beside the point. They seemed to mostly restrict themselves to verbal utterances, and it seems nobody was physically hurt. If you are mentally hurt by people expressing their opinion, stay away from such events.

In short .... what is the problem, here?

Hans

One problem is that you have an actual violent hate group whose conduct is being swept under the rug because an activist is exploiting misleading videos and several high schoolers have received death threats as a result.

Ziggurat 20th January 2019 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim (Post 12570529)
Oh, and yes schools should endorse protesting.

No, they should not. That isn't their job, they aren't well suited to the role.

Quote:

It works both ways. If you think schools should endorse pupils protesting against guns, you have to allow schools to endorse pupils protesting against abortions.
That's true. Except in practice, it will never go both ways with endorsements, because schools are institutionally leftist. It's very easy for them to come up with special pleading reasons to not endorse that protest even though they endorse this one. Which is another reason they shouldn't endorse protests at all, it's an easier rule to stay consistent about.

Whip 20th January 2019 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strawberry (Post 12570451)
video shows a bunch of ignorant brats who have no respect for their elders.

it's not like it's evergreen college. do you know they teach politics in high school?

MRC_Hans 20th January 2019 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Dog (Post 12570635)
One problem is that you have an actual violent hate group whose conduct is being swept under the rug because an activist is exploiting misleading videos and several high schoolers have received death threats as a result.

I didn't see them do any violence.

These days, you can get death threats by expressing practically any opinion on the webz.

Hans

Ziggurat 20th January 2019 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRC_Hans (Post 12570639)
These days, you can get death threats by expressing practically any opinion on the webz.

I'll kill you for that! :mad:

:p

The Big Dog 20th January 2019 10:49 AM

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Black_Hebrew_Israelites

A bit more about the group that our hero was ignoring.

baron 20th January 2019 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kookbreaker (Post 12570614)
Or I can point out that you are attacking the victim in this matter.

The victim! Listen to yourself. In what way is he a victim? He went out of his way to confront a group of kids and one of them stared at him whilst a few others did a stupid tomahawk dance. If that makes a victim in your eyes then I don't know what to say.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kookbreaker (Post 12570614)
If you haven't seen it already, there's no point in pointing it out to you anymore.

Yes, I am more concerned about the punching down of a kids who wear the hats of an open racist. GO figure.

"Punching down of a kids who wear the hats of an open racist"?

Er, OK.

But I don't doubt your motivations for a minute. You would rather fly into hysterics about a white kid who stares at a Native American than post a single word of criticism about a group of blacks who spend over an hour shouting the most vile racist, homophobic abuse and making threats of violence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kookbreaker (Post 12570614)
And yes, I am not fretting over their confrontation with the Black Israel group. I know what they are and I'm not caring that a bunch of kids got into a screaming match with them. I am worried that a bunch of said kids wearing a racists hat pulled a confrontation stare-down while mocking and surrounding Phillips, no matter how you try to rewrite the story.

Maybe you should watch the video as opposed to writing stuff that anybody can see is baloney.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kookbreaker (Post 12570614)
So, as I predicted, Nathan Phillips is being Dead Agented, by you.

Sorry, are you looking for applause? There you go :clap: Bravo, great prediction! Bravo!

MRC_Hans 20th January 2019 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggurat (Post 12570642)
I'll kill you for that! :mad:

:p

Ya. Bite me, punk!

The Big Dog 20th January 2019 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRC_Hans (Post 12570639)
I didn't see them do any violence.

These days, you can get death threats by expressing practically any opinion on the webz.

Hans

You asked what the problem is, i said death threats against actual identifiable high schoolers.

You do not think that is a problem?

MRC_Hans 20th January 2019 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Dog (Post 12570644)
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Black_Hebrew_Israelites

A bit more about the group that our hero was ignoring.

Ya, apparently tossers, but in the event discussed, they seemed reasonably docile.

I trust you will allow people to have and express their personal conviction, as long as they don't do so in a violent way and in general obey the laws of the country?

Hans

Meadmaker 20th January 2019 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim (Post 12570529)
Honestly, people, you don't have to pick a side. It's entirely legitimate to think that absolutely everybody involved is a ****.

Oh, and yes schools should endorse protesting. There were a hell of a lot of people that approved of schools endorsing the recent protests where kids walked out of class and/or marched in order to try to get more restrictions on guns. There were a hell of a lot of people who criticised the schools that punished the pupils that did so.

It works both ways. If you think schools should endorse pupils protesting against guns, you have to allow schools to endorse pupils protesting against abortions. You can't agree with one and disagree with the other just because you agree with one cause and disagree with the other. That's not what free speech is.

:thumbsup:

Travis 20th January 2019 11:04 AM

Well, talk of how morbid and dark things seemed for me in those days aside let us examine the counter argument being put forth here.


Nathan walked over to the kids and....that excuses everything?


Seriously people, how often in touristy areas do you see performers approach groups of people performing their thing? I see it all the time in San Francisco.



Know what I never see? I never see those groups rally to conduct an impromptu counter demonstration.

Wolrab 20th January 2019 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis (Post 12570657)
Well, talk of how morbid and dark things seemed for me in those days aside let us examine the counter argument being put forth here.


Nathan walked over to the kids and....that excuses everything?


Seriously people, how often in touristy areas do you see performers approach groups of people performing their thing? I see it all the time in San Francisco.



Know what I never see? I never see those groups rally to conduct an impromptu counter demonstration.

There is absolutely nothing to excuse on behalf of the kids. Now an excuse should be made by Phillips for his blatant lying that may get children hurt or killed.

plague311 20th January 2019 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baron (Post 12570606)
What situation was he trying to defuse?

My best guess would be what some have described as rising tensions between the black group and the catholic kids. I could be wrong, and will gladly admit if I am. That's what is awesome about me. I can accept that I do get things wrong from time to time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by baron (Post 12570606)
And would you say the best way of diffusing a situation is walking into the middle of a crowd of 100 people and, without saying a word, start banging a drum in their face? Why didn't he bang a drum at the agitators - the black group?

He went up to each and every person and started "banging a drum in their face"? I must have missed that part.

Quote:

Originally Posted by baron (Post 12570606)
This guy is an activist and proven liar. Why are you so eager to take his side?

I'm not taking anyone's side. That was literally my ******* point buddy. Did you read the post? I think all parties involved are garbage, attention seeking morons. I don't hold one above the other.

If you've noticed, I also haven't naysayed the kids either. I did nothing other than say I didn't see Mr. Phillips taking a side, and TBD was lying when he said that Phillips did. Now he's changed his gripe to say Phillips was "ignoring" the violent and angry black people. Which, he might have been. I don't give a ****, it's not on Mr. Phillips to confront every single individual, or anyone at all. Hence why I said, I'm not taking sides. I get it though, to some of you that's impossible.

varwoche 20th January 2019 11:12 AM

Because I'm well aware that people are jerks, bigots, profit oriented, and/or suckers...

I'm not surprised that teenagers wearing MAGA hats are deplorable, with the caveat at the bottom.

I'm not surprised that the Native American guy provoked the confrontation, although I expect more from adults than teens.

I'm not surprised there are hateful religious fanatics like the "Black Israelites".

I expect better from the media. As the facts emerge, I expect the outlets that told a misleading story to correct the record / tell a fuller story. (I hope to have time later today to see which outlets did and didn't knee-jerk.)

I'm not surprised that people reacted to the crappy news coverage the way they did, what with people being suckers. I expect reasonable people to adjust to the facts as they emerge however.

I'm not surprised that the discussion here turns tribal. However, I don't think it's reasonable to use any of the actors here as representative.

I'm perpetually surprised that the President of the United States embodies a mind-boggling list of negative characteristics, any one of which should cause a rational, non-bigoted adult to recoil in disgust. It's appalling that the school would allow the teens to wear hate symbols on a school outing, but that's a sign of the topsy-turvy times we live in.

kookbreaker 20th January 2019 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baron (Post 12570645)
The victim! Listen to yourself. In what way is he a victim? He went out of his way to confront a group of kids and one of them stared at him whilst a few others did a stupid tomahawk dance. If that makes a victim in your eyes then I don't know what to say.

By his own words, he approached hoping to diffuse the confrontation. You might complain about his naivite but not what happened. A kid tried to do a confrontational staredown (please, stop pretending otherwise, its tiresome) and the other kids chanted 'Build the wall' and did racist chants.

So just because he was not harmed in any serious does not mean he is not a victim. If you have a more accurate term that isn't just more Dead Agenting of Phillips I'd like to hear it.

Quote:

"Punching down of a kids who wear the hats of an open racist"?

Er, OK.
Yes. OK. The hat represents Trump. Trump is an open racist. Or do you actually buy the bit about calling people 'Pocahontas' is done with love? :rolleyes:


Quote:

But I don't doubt your motivations for a minute. You would rather fly into hysterics about a white kid who stares at a Native American than post a single word of criticism about a group of blacks who spend over an hour shouting the most vile racist, homophobic abuse and making threats of violence.
Because you want a video of Black Israel being jerkasses? BIG FLIPPING DEAL!

Everyone who has lived in a major city for more than a week knows about these guys. They are legendary for obnoxious behavior and yelling racist crap at just about anyone: white, black, latino, asian, christian, muslim, jewish.

So you have video of the Black Isrealites being obnoxious to the kids in MAGA hats. File an article with 'DUH!' magazine.

It does not excuse their behavior, pointing at other people's crappy behavior.

Quote:

Maybe you should watch the video as opposed to writing stuff that anybody can see is baloney.
I've seen the video, what I see from you is excuse making, deflections, dead agenting, and handwaving.

Quote:

Sorry, are you looking for applause? There you go :clap: Bravo, great prediction! Bravo!
Yes, it was a bit like predicting the sun would rise in the East, but seriously are you guys working from a playbook or something?

zooterkin 20th January 2019 11:15 AM

Mod WarningThe OP has been edited to remove some comments which breached the MA, and responses to those have been moved to AAH (those posts are not being treated as breaches of the MA).
Please keep discussion in this thread to the topic of the incident at the rally in Washington.
Posted By:zooterkin

The Big Dog 20th January 2019 11:16 AM

Hate group that everyone knows about, including minors from Covington KY?

Yeah, no.

This native american activist is lying and is a race grifter just like the vast majority of the resistance.

baron 20th January 2019 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plague311 (Post 12570668)
My best guess would be what some have described as rising tensions between the black group and the catholic kids. I could be wrong, and will gladly admit if I am. That's what is awesome about me. I can accept that I do get things wrong from time to time.

If there was tension, who was causing it? It's pretty obvious it was the black group so why didn't he confront them? The answer is simple, he wasn't trying to diffuse anything, he was doing what activists do, drawing attention to a cause.

Quote:

Originally Posted by plague311 (Post 12570668)
He went up to each and every person and started "banging a drum in their face"? I must have missed that part.

I think you're grasping at straws there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by plague311 (Post 12570668)
I'm not taking anyone's side. That was literally my ******* point buddy. Did you read the post? I think all parties involved are garbage, attention seeking morons. I don't hold one above the other.

And that's my point. Was I anything less than clear? You should hold one group above the other unless you have an agenda to fulfil. One group consists of kids who basically do nothing other than jump up and down. The other group consists of adults shouting racist, homophobic, violent taunts. In what clown world should these two groups be equally derided?

Quote:

Originally Posted by plague311 (Post 12570668)
If you've noticed, I also haven't naysayed the kids either. I did nothing other than said I didn't see Mr. Phillips taking a side, and TBD was lying when he said that Phillips did. Now he's changed his gripe to say Phillips was "ignoring" the violent and angry black people. Which, he might have been. I don't give a ****, it's not on Mr. Phillips to confront every single individual, or anyone at all. Hence why I said, I'm not taking sides. I get it though, to some of you that's impossible.

No, I get it, you're not taking a side... when you should be.

Matthew Best 20th January 2019 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kookbreaker (Post 12570671)
A kid tried to do a confrontational staredown (please, stop pretending otherwise, its tiresome) and the other kids chanted 'Build the wall' and did racist chants.

I honestly couldn't be bothered to watch the entire 2 hour video to see when this happened - would you mind letting me know at what point it happens, and what it is they actually chant?

Thanks.

catsmate 20th January 2019 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nessie (Post 12570349)
News reports in the UK have the school themselves shaming the kids and totally condemning their actions.

And the RCC diocese.


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