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-   -   Continuation The Trump Presidency: Part 25 (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=346437)

Captain_Swoop 12th October 2020 08:48 AM

Trump Tweets

So Crazy to watch Senator Blumenthal of Connecticut lecture all on morals & ethics when for 25 years he said he was a Great War Hero in Vietnam, and he was never even there. He lied & cheated right up until the day he got caught. Thank you to those in military who turned him in!

The Don 12th October 2020 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13255233)
STOCK MARKET UP BIG!

Remember, I wouldn’t be President now had Obama and Biden properly done their job. The fact is, they were TERRIBLE!!!

See you in Sanford, Florida, tonight for a Big Rally. Covered Live on @OANN, @newsmax and @cspan. Enjoy!!!

He's convinced me, I'll never vote for Barack Obama for President again. :rolleyes:

Darat 12th October 2020 08:50 AM

It really says something when even a cruel dictator, Kim Jong-un accepts more responsibility and apologises for their handling of the crisis and the POTUS can't do either.

Captain_Swoop 12th October 2020 08:51 AM

Trump Tweets

We will have Healthcare which is FAR BETTER than ObamaCare, at a FAR LOWER COST - BIG PREMIUM REDUCTION. PEOPLE WITH PRE EXISTING CONDITIONS WILL BE PROTECTED AT AN EVEN HIGHER LEVEL THAN NOW. HIGHLY UNPOPULAR AND UNFAIR INDIVIDUAL MANDATE ALREADY TERMINATED. YOU’RE WELCOME!

Captain_Swoop 12th October 2020 08:53 AM

Trump Tweets

Republicans must state loudly and clearly that WE are going to provide much better Healthcare at a much lower cost. Get the word out! Will always protect pre-existing conditions!!!

RedStapler 12th October 2020 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13255269)
Trump Tweets

Republicans must state loudly and clearly that WE are going to provide much better Healthcare at a much lower cost. Get the word out! Will always protect pre-existing conditions!!!

Donnie is clearly a buddy of Randell Mills, where else would Donnie have learned to promise better healthcare and then do nothing for 4 years. :D

Giordano 12th October 2020 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13255188)
Trump Tweets

The Republicans are giving the Democrats a great deal of time, which is not mandated, to make their self serving statements relative to our great new future Supreme Court Justice. Personally, I would pull back, approve, and go for STIMULUS for the people!!!

Right. Whereas Mitch had declared that he would approve Trump’s nomination before we even knew who that was!

No need to consider, discuss, and evaluate.

“ Old Charlie Mitch stole the handle and
The train it won't stop going-
No way to slow down.“

Trebuchet 12th October 2020 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ladewig (Post 13255153)
Threee SCOTUS justices die when there is a Republican President and a Republican Senate. Im sure why that is considered “pretty darn good.” Trump didn’t cause their deaths and no real skill was required to replace them.

...............
Normal presidents: I feel honored to be placed in such great company.

President Trump: I didn’t get enough press coverage.

Nitpick: One of those justices died much earlier, but it would have been oh, so wrong to confirm a justice in an election year. And one retired. Only Ginsburg died while Trump was President.

The Man 12th October 2020 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13255267)
Trump Tweets

We will have Healthcare which is FAR BETTER than ObamaCare, at a FAR LOWER COST - BIG PREMIUM REDUCTION. PEOPLE WITH PRE EXISTING CONDITIONS WILL BE PROTECTED AT AN EVEN HIGHER LEVEL THAN NOW. HIGHLY UNPOPULAR AND UNFAIR INDIVIDUAL MANDATE ALREADY TERMINATED. YOU’RE WELCOME!

'Oh, and did I mention WE DELIBERATELY TERMINATED THAT INDIVIDUAL MANDATE JUST SO WE COULD GET THE COURTS TO DECLARE MANY PEOPLES' CURRENT HEALTHCARE UNCONSTITUTIONAL.'


What are the odds of the court declaring the legislation that terminated only the individual mandate as unconstitutional instead? 4 to 5 perchance?

Giordano 12th October 2020 09:20 AM

I view the “We will give you a better health plan for cheaper than Obamacare. We just haven’t got around to it over the last 4 years because we’ve been so busy trying to destroy Obamacare!” as an intelligence test of the American public. It is a fairly simple test, equivalent to observing if the participants answer “No you are lying!” vs try eat the pencil.

JoeMorgue 12th October 2020 09:23 AM

Much of Trump's rural base finds Obamacare hilarious because what hospital are they going to use it at?

Again this is just one of those deep, core disconnects between rural and urban mentalities.

In an urban area the big injustice is that the hospital is like... right there but you can't afford to go to it.

In rural areas it doesn't matter how much it goes to go to the hospital, you'll be dead before you get there. Nobody cares how much it costs to go to a hospital that's 100 miles away.

Bob001 12th October 2020 09:24 AM

What is the actual Repub argument against the ACA? If it was just flaws in the law itself, it could be amended and improved. But they haven't done that. If the Repubs wanted to provide better coverage for less money, they could pass laws to do that. But they haven't. The original objection was to the individual mandate. But that's gone. What do the Repubs gain by taking health insurance, however imperfect, away from 22 million people? Why is this the issue it's become?

The Great Zaganza 12th October 2020 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob001 (Post 13255285)
What is the actual Repub argument against the ACA? If it was just flaws in the law itself, it could be amended and improved. But they haven't done that. If the Repubs wanted to provide better coverage for less money, they could pass laws to do that. But they haven't. The original objection was to the individual mandate. But that's gone. What do the Repubs gain by taking health insurance, however imperfect, away from 22 million people? Why is this the issue it's become?

The goal of Republicans is to privatize all forms for government participation in social security and healthcare.
The assumption being that the private sector will make it better and cheaper (evidently not true), but most importantly, taking Medicare/Medicaid and Social Security away from the Government will free up the budget for more Defense Spending.

Trebuchet 12th October 2020 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob001 (Post 13255285)
What is the actual Repub argument against the ACA? If it was just flaws in the law itself, it could be amended and improved. But they haven't done that. If the Repubs wanted to provide better coverage for less money, they could pass laws to do that. But they haven't. The original objection was to the individual mandate. But that's gone. What do the Repubs gain by taking health insurance, however imperfect, away from 22 million people? Why is this the issue it's become?

SOCIALISM!!!!

JoeMorgue 12th October 2020 09:57 AM

1. The Democrats want it, which makes it evil. If the Democrats adopted "Kittens are cute" as a pillar of their party platform today, by close of business on Wednesday at the lastest "Kittens are hideous" would be retconned into always having been a major pillar of the Republican Party Platform.
2. The vague idea of "self reliance" and the idea that you just shouldn't be provided things you didn't "work for" (with "provided with" and "work for" being very poorly and self servingly defined.)
3. Democratic Health care = Abortions. Just so many abortions. Hot and cold running abortions. Roadside abortion stands. Buy 10 abortions get one free. Abortion of the month club. Abortion combos with a side of fries. Tonsils out? Why not an abortion while we are in there?
4. As noted the whole "scawwy socialism" thing.
5. As I already said "Who cares about costs of health care where the nearest health care provider more robust then the minute clinic at the drug store is a 45 minute drive away?"

Mojo 12th October 2020 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza (Post 13255291)
The goal of Republicans is to privatize all forms for government participation in social security and healthcare.
The assumption being that the private sector will make it better and cheaper (evidently not true), but most importantly, taking Medicare/Medicaid and Social Security away from the Government will free up the budget for more Defense Spending money out of it.


FTFY

Armitage72 12th October 2020 10:03 AM

Don't forget the surveys that have shown Republican voters who hate Obamacare but think the Affordable Care Act is great.
President Obama did it = Burn it in the fires of Hell.

Skeptic Ginger 12th October 2020 10:07 AM

Re the Gallup finding, are you better off than 4 years ago:

CNN: That Gallup poll doesn't say what Donald Trump thinks it does
Quote:

But here's the thing that both Trump and his campaign seem to miss: It is an incredibly damning indictment of Trump personally that, in a country where a majority of the people believe they are better off than they were four years ago, the incumbent President is currently losing badly in his bid for a second term.
What the Gallup numbers suggest is that even though people feel better off than they were at this time in 2016 -- a somewhat remarkable finding given the ongoing coronavirus pandemic -- they don't ascribe that better feeling to Trump and his policies. Or even if they do give Trump credit for feeling "better off" -- usually a measure of economic stability, optimism and well-being -- there are other things they prioritize when it comes to choosing the next president.
(Important note: The Gallup poll was conducted before the first presidential debate -- and Trump's erratic performance. It was also in the field prior to Trump's diagnosis last week with Covid-19.)

turingtest 12th October 2020 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob001 (Post 13255285)
What is the actual Repub argument against the ACA? If it was just flaws in the law itself, it could be amended and improved. But they haven't done that. If the Repubs wanted to provide better coverage for less money, they could pass laws to do that. But they haven't. The original objection was to the individual mandate. But that's gone. What do the Repubs gain by taking health insurance, however imperfect, away from 22 million people? Why is this the issue it's become?

"It's soshalism!"

That's the argument against the ACA boiled down to its essential for easy digestion by the GOP's basest base. And the reason they haven't come up with anything substantial to replace it in four years (or, really, the six before then) is because anything that would work, anything that would actually be a better health plan cheaper than Obamacare, would have to practically be Obamacare. They've already co-opted the popular "pre-existing conditions" part of it as their own, but a toothless EO claiming it without doing anything real to make it real, is about as far as they can get before they realize that any realistic, detailed plan they come up with is going to be as much socialism as the ACA ever really was- you can't actually make the insurance companies cover pre-existing conditions without a law to mandate it, and that's the same sort of "government regulation of business" that the GOP is in business to frown upon.

Normally, that kind of hypocrisy and re-write of history wouldn't be an obstacle; I think it may be here because the people most likely to be affected by Obamacare's loss and then replacement by a near-identity will be those most likely to be Trump supporters. Even they could get the point behind the old Steven Wright joke- "last night somebody stole everything in my apartment and replaced it all with exact replicas"; and even more so if the replica doesn't work.

TL;DR- what Trebuchet said.

JoeMorgue 12th October 2020 10:08 AM

The liberals are certainly a lot madder, which is "better off" for a lot of Trump supporters.

Bob001 12th October 2020 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13255301)
1. The Democrats want it, which makes it evil. If the Democrats adopted "Kittens are cute" as a pillar of their party platform today, by close of business on Wednesday at the lastest "Kittens are hideous" would be retconned into always having been a major pillar of the Republican Party Platform.
.....

I just note that the ACA is basically the Repub health-care plan. It was based on Mitt Romney's successful plan for Massachusetts, which in turn was developed from proposals by the Heritage Foundation. A true Democratic plan would at least have included a public option, and would probably have been much closer to Medicare-for-All. The Repubs won and won't admit it.

Mumbles 12th October 2020 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babbylonian (Post 13254859)
I doubt his fellow South Carolinians would bend even that far, so I FTFY.

They don't. Like I keep saying, it's easy to find conservative black people. What's actually rare are black republicans for some unknown reason.

Skeptic Ginger 12th October 2020 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13255260)
Trump Tweets

So Crazy to watch Senator Blumenthal of Connecticut lecture all on morals & ethics when for 25 years he said he was a Great War Hero in Vietnam, and he was never even there. He lied & cheated right up until the day he got caught. Thank you to those in military who turned him in!

Sometimes these guys get carried away with being full of themselves.

Snopes
Quote:

What's True
Blumenthal made a handful of false and misleading statements about having served in Vietnam during the period of American involvement in the war there.

What's False
Blumenthal insisted that those misrepresentations were "totally unintentional," as he has also more accurately and modestly represented his military service at other times.
Hard to think this was misspeaking:
Quote:

At a ceremony honoring veterans and senior citizens who sent presents to soldiers overseas, Attorney General Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut rose and spoke of an earlier time in his life. “We have learned something important since the days that I served in Vietnam,” Mr. Blumenthal said to the group gathered in Norwalk in March 2008. “And you exemplify it. Whatever we think about the war, whatever we call it — Afghanistan or Iraq — we owe our military men and women unconditional support.”
When this is what actually happened:
Quote:

He obtained at least five military deferments from 1965 to 1970 and took repeated steps that enabled him to avoid going to war, according to records.

The deferments allowed Mr. Blumenthal to complete his studies at Harvard; pursue a graduate fellowship in England; serve as a special assistant to The Washington Post’s publisher, Katharine Graham; and ultimately take a job in the Nixon White House. In 1970, with his last deferment in jeopardy, he landed a coveted spot in the Marine Reserve, which virtually guaranteed that he would not be sent to Vietnam. He joined a unit in Washington that conducted drills and other exercises and focused on local projects, like fixing a campground and organizing a Toys for Tots drive.
Considering the person complaining faked 'bone spurs' to get out of serving at all, it hardly seems like a valid complaint.

Blumenthal's statements were more general than the way Trump describes them. You can read the details in the rest of the article.

Skeptic Ginger 12th October 2020 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13255286)
Much of Trump's rural base finds Obamacare hilarious because what hospital are they going to use it at?

Again this is just one of those deep, core disconnects between rural and urban mentalities.

In an urban area the big injustice is that the hospital is like... right there but you can't afford to go to it.

In rural areas it doesn't matter how much it goes to go to the hospital, you'll be dead before you get there. Nobody cares how much it costs to go to a hospital that's 100 miles away.

Do you have a source for this?

And how was the situation better before the ACA?

JoeMorgue 12th October 2020 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13255321)
Do you have a source for this?

And how was the situation better before the ACA?

Source for what? That things are further away in rural areas or that a hospital that's too for away to get to in an emergency matters more than how much it costs? Because I think both of those are pretty self evidence.

Ryokan 12th October 2020 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13255286)
Much of Trump's rural base finds Obamacare hilarious because what hospital are they going to use it at?

Again this is just one of those deep, core disconnects between rural and urban mentalities.

In an urban area the big injustice is that the hospital is like... right there but you can't afford to go to it.

In rural areas it doesn't matter how much it goes to go to the hospital, you'll be dead before you get there. Nobody cares how much it costs to go to a hospital that's 100 miles away.

People don't go to hospitals only for life threatening emergencies. There would be literally thousands of different reasons to go to a hospital for life improving and life extending operations.

Living hundreds of miles away from a hospital is also true for quite a lot of Norwegians. They still go to hospitals if they have medical problems.

So what exactly is it that rural Americans do if their local doctor diagnoses them with early stage cancer, a kidney stone or any other diagnosis that isn't immediately life threatening? Just lay down and die because the hospital is 100 miles away?

Ryokan 12th October 2020 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13255323)
Source for what? That things are further away in rural areas or that a hospital that's too for away to get to in an emergency matters more than how much it costs? Because I think both of those are pretty self evidence.

Most of what hospitals do isn't emergencies. That's just a tiny part.

Safe-Keeper 12th October 2020 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13255301)
1. The Democrats want it, which makes it evil. If the Democrats adopted "Kittens are cute" as a pillar of their party platform today, by close of business on Wednesday at the lastest "Kittens are hideous" would be retconned into always having been a major pillar of the Republican Party Platform.

You mean like the trumpers who hate Obamacare, but love the ACA ;) ?

Safe-Keeper 12th October 2020 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13255323)
Source for what? That things are further away in rural areas or that a hospital that's too for away to get to in an emergency matters more than how much it costs? Because I think both of those are pretty self evidence.

How far away? As Ryokan says, here in Norway they might have to dispatch a helicopter, or drive an ambulance for three and a half hours (possibly including several ferry rides) if a helicopter is not available, but it's not like they'll tell you that they can't reach you at all. Also they have ambulance planes for when you need to get a patient quickly from a town to a city with a hospital.

If there isn't proper emergency response coverage in parts of the USA, to the point where emergency services can't get to a patient at all, or that it takes too long for them to do so, that's obviously another big problem.

Bob001 12th October 2020 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13255323)
Source for what? That things are further away in rural areas or that a hospital that's too for away to get to in an emergency matters more than how much it costs? Because I think both of those are pretty self evidence.

But that doesn't have anything to do with the ACA. The ACA was intended to make group health insurance accessible to people who couldn't get it otherwise. It was never intended to solve every problem in the health care system.

MRC_Hans 12th October 2020 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13255323)
Source for what? That things are further away in rural areas or that a hospital that's too for away to get to in an emergency matters more than how much it costs? Because I think both of those are pretty self evidence.

You mentioned hospitals 100 miles away. Except in some acute emergencies, how is that impossibly far away? Even in tiny Denmark, advanced hospitals can be nearly that far away in considerable areas. That's 45 minutes in an ambulance, 15 minutes in a helicopter.

How can that be more important than the cost?

Hans

Tero 12th October 2020 11:30 AM

Since he pretty much lost the election (by votes anyway), will he repeal Obamacare? The legal angle is that Trump canceled the requirement to buy insurance when he cut taxes. The argument is that by canceling that part of Obamacare they canceled the entire law.

Of course the parts of Obamacare were planned to work together, to bring the cost to the taxpayer down. But still, the legal thinking they have is weak. It's like saying an amendment to the constitution repeals the entire constitution.

StillSleepy 12th October 2020 11:47 AM

Pew Research Center on hospital distance. [Pew Research Center]

Bob001 12th October 2020 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StillSleepy (Post 13255374)
Pew Research Center on hospital distance. [Pew Research Center]


From the link:
Quote:

Rural Americans live an average of 10.5 miles from the nearest hospital, compared with 5.6 miles for people in suburban areas and 4.4 for those in urban areas, according to a new Center analysis.
That doesn't seem like as much of a disparity as I might have guessed. Obviously some people live a long way from hospitals, but they would be a small percentage of the population. The U.S. has a lot of open spaces. Not everybody can live 10 minutes from from a hospital.

pgwenthold 12th October 2020 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRC_Hans (Post 13255355)
You mentioned hospitals 100 miles away. Except in some acute emergencies, how is that impossibly far away? Even in tiny Denmark, advanced hospitals can be nearly that far away in considerable areas. That's 45 minutes in an ambulance, 15 minutes in a helicopter.

100 miles is not 100 km

Galaxie 12th October 2020 12:48 PM

Are we really talking about Medevac helicopters as a serious option? Good luck getting your insurance to pay for that.

Emergency Air Lift to Hospital Could Cost $40,000

Skeptic Ginger 12th October 2020 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13255323)
Source for what? That things are further away in rural areas or that a hospital that's too for away to get to in an emergency matters more than how much it costs? Because I think both of those are pretty self evidence.

What does this have to do with the ACA?

JoeMorgue 12th October 2020 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13255432)
What does this have to do with the ACA?

Obviously nothing. Just forget a ******* said anything.

Captain_Swoop 12th October 2020 01:17 PM

Trump Tweets

Viewership for NBA Finals Finale Crash Nearly 70%, Beaten by Random Sunday Night Football Game https://breitbart.com/sports/2020/10...football-game/ via @BreitbartNews
Maybe they were watching in China, but I doubt it. Zero interest!

JoeMorgue 12th October 2020 01:21 PM

I'll assume that's some sort of "Get Woke, Go Broke" criticism on NBA from Dear Leader.


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