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Foolmewunz 17th October 2019 06:50 PM

Mick was perched on the ledge before this fiasco. Ya gotta figure he may not make it through the weekend. Donnie wanted to blame him for the admin staff being so ill-prepared for the impeachment hearings. Now he's learning that hiring people on the basis of "But do they stick up for me?" may not be the best criteria, particularly when "sticking up for Trump" means you open your big mouth when you should've just shut up.

The problem is that these miscreants actually believe the crap they tell each other and that Donnie Johnny's motives are pure and patriotic so they just repeat his misdeed in the assurance that the deplorables just won't care.

Who's on tap to be the next "acting" CoS? Can I still root for Devin? Gotta get his sorry ass-kissing in there to make Trump's suicide drive complete.

Norman Alexander 17th October 2019 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz (Post 12859631)
Mick was perched on the ledge before this fiasco. Ya gotta figure he may not make it through the weekend. Donnie wanted to blame him for the admin staff being so ill-prepared for the impeachment hearings. Now he's learning that hiring people on the basis of "But do they stick up for me?" may not be the best criteria, particularly when "sticking up for Trump" means you open your big mouth when you should've just shut up.

The problem is that these miscreants actually believe the crap they tell each other and that Donnie Johnny's motives are pure and patriotic so they just repeat his misdeed in the assurance that the deplorables just won't care.

Who's on tap to be the next "acting" CoS? Can I still root for Devin? Gotta get his sorry ass-kissing in there to make Trump's suicide drive complete.

There is no Chief-of-Staff these days. Anyone in the position is going to be simply a seat-warmer, sycophant and sideshow. Really, it's a great job for loafer who wants to be paid the big bucks to do nothing at all constructive, watch Trump **** things up all by himself, and cheer him on. Maybe Hannity should apply...

Trump has always liked to run his own show, in person, alone. In business, you can probably get away with that...it's a management style, I suppose. But this scatter-gun "You're fired!" mentality designed to "keep your people on their toes" is really reaping its dividends in government now. Government ain't a business. It doesn't work like that. Of course, everyone but Donny knew that going in... Didn't they! ;)

dudalb 18th October 2019 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acbytesla (Post 12859596)
Perry leaving is really bizarre. Rumor has it that he was going to step down next year any way and work in the private sector. Whic probably means some oil companies will pay him for the policies he implemented at the DOE. You know, give him a huge consulting contract where he basically gets sent a big check every month.

The question is what was his involvement.

A lot of that big check will probably go for legal expenses. he is going to probably need the kind of Lawyer who can ask to be billed 500 bucks an hour and get it.

dudalb 18th October 2019 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander (Post 12859722)
There is no Chief-of-Staff these days. Anyone in the position is going to be simply a seat-warmer, sycophant and sideshow. Really, it's a great job for loafer who wants to be paid the big bucks to do nothing at all constructive, watch Trump **** things up all by himself, and cheer him on. Maybe Hannity should apply...

Trump has always liked to run his own show, in person, alone. In business, you can probably get away with that...it's a management style, I suppose. But this scatter-gun "You're fired!" mentality designed to "keep your people on their toes" is really reaping its dividends in government now. Government ain't a business. It doesn't work like that. Of course, everyone but Donny knew that going in... Didn't they! ;)

Problem is any CEO in charge of a large company needs a Chief of Staff or his equivalent just for gatekeeping purposes...he can't waste his time running his office staff. You can't really get away with that in a large business either.
But then who said Donnie was a good CEO.
What he does flies in the face of what any good business/government management school teaches.The techniques of running a large organization are pretty much the same.

dudalb 18th October 2019 04:32 PM

Don't know how much there is to this, but there is some speculation that Trump is giving serious consideration to dropping Pence from the ticket.
Reason: Only reason Donnie picked him was to get the evangelical vote, and Trump feels that the evangelicals are now tied in so closely to him that he can do without Pence, and he want a running mate who will help him with his weakest spot, which is the female vote.I
I don't know if anybody can help Trump in that regard..too much damage has been done...but the above does seem to be the way that Donnie's mind often works.

Babbylonian 18th October 2019 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 12860841)
Don't know how much there is to this, but there is some speculation that Trump is giving serious consideration to dropping Pence from the ticket.
Reason: Only reason Donnie picked him was to get the evangelical vote, and Trump feels that the evangelicals are now tied in so closely to him that he can do without Pence, and he want a running mate who will help him with his weakest spot, which is the female vote.I
I don't know if anybody can help Trump in that regard..too much damage has been done...but the above does seem to be the way that Donnie's mind often works.

It would sure be nice if he could drive Pence to resign. I'd feel that much better about impeachment...and I already want that worse than anything.

dudalb 18th October 2019 04:38 PM

I do not like Pence at all, but at least he might have a little spark of decency whereas Trump does not. At this point I am willing to roll the dice on that.
Damn, I wish I could remember the Latin for that that Pelosi used a couple of weeks ago.

Babbylonian 18th October 2019 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 12860850)
I do not like Pence at all, but at least he might have a little spark of decency whereas Trump does not. At this point I am willing to roll the dice on that.

Every chance he's had to show his supposed decency, he's gone right to bat for Trump. Even if I shared his fundamental[list] ideology, he'd remain unacceptable to me.

Trebuchet 18th October 2019 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 12860850)
I do not like Pence at all, but at least he might have a little spark of decency whereas Trump does not. At this point I am willing to roll the dice on that.
Damn, I wish I could remember the Latin for that that Pelosi used a couple of weeks ago.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babbylonian (Post 12860858)
Every chance he's had to show his supposed decency, he's gone right to bat for Trump. Even if I shared his fundamental[list] ideology, he'd remain unacceptable to me.

Today's "Christian" fundamentalism is based entirely on hate. I'd be quite happy to see Pence removed before Trump, like Agnew before Nixon.

The Great Zaganza 18th October 2019 06:08 PM

From looking at his record, there is no reason to assume Pence would be more competent than Trump as President - he just can get bullied into not doing very much.
The ideal VP for Trump is someone who will give him, personally, lots of money.

kellyb 18th October 2019 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 12860850)
I do not like Pence at all, but at least he might have a little spark of decency whereas Trump does not. At this point I am willing to roll the dice on that.
Damn, I wish I could remember the Latin for that that Pelosi used a couple of weeks ago.

At least it's an ethos!

The Latin you're looking for is Alea iacta est.

Craig4 18th October 2019 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acbytesla (Post 12859596)
Perry leaving is really bizarre. Rumor has it that he was going to step down next year any way and work in the private sector. Whic probably means some oil companies will pay him for the policies he implemented at the DOE. You know, give him a huge consulting contract where he basically gets sent a big check every month.

The question is what was his involvement.

Lately, resigning means you're planning to testify.

quadraginta 19th October 2019 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 12860782)
A lot of that big check will probably go for legal expenses. he is going to probably need the kind of Lawyer who can ask to be billed 500 bucks an hour and get it.


I hear that Giuliani works cheap.

quadraginta 19th October 2019 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 12860841)
Don't know how much there is to this, but there is some speculation that Trump is giving serious consideration to dropping Pence from the ticket.
Reason: Only reason Donnie picked him was to get the evangelical vote, and Trump feels that the evangelicals are now tied in so closely to him that he can do without Pence, and he want a running mate who will help him with his weakest spot, which is the female vote.I
I don't know if anybody can help Trump in that regard..too much damage has been done...but the above does seem to be the way that Donnie's mind often works.


Sarah Palin is probably available

Trebuchet 19th October 2019 03:16 PM

I'm kind of confused. I thought I heard a couple of weeks ago that Rick Perry was leaving?

acbytesla 19th October 2019 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trebuchet (Post 12861683)
I'm kind of confused. I thought I heard a couple of weeks ago that Rick Perry was leaving?

Perry announced he was leaving yesterday. Trump tweeted a thank you for your service today.

d4m10n 19th October 2019 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trebuchet (Post 12861683)
I'm kind of confused. I thought I heard a couple of weeks ago that Rick Perry was leaving?

Yeah, but those were just (accurate) leaks. It took a bit to put together the goodbye video.

Minoosh 20th October 2019 03:35 PM

So who's going to fire Mulvaney? Pence?

Norman Alexander 20th October 2019 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 12860784)
What he does flies in the face of what any good business/government management school teaches. The techniques of running a large organization are pretty much the same.

No, they're not, actually. But they share one thing in common: The CEO and "the board" need to know what the business is in the business of doing. Why does the organisation even exist. And hopefully, how does this organisation do what it does better.

In short (in management school speak): Mission statement, and business practices.

In a private business, Donny's "mission statement" was pretty clearly "Make me as rich as possible the easiest way possible by any means possible while hanging about looking cool with good-looking women in flashy cars with gold stuff everywhere". And his business practices were "Screw everyone else, I'm all right and **** you if you get in trouble". And to be frank, if that's what he wanted then fine. Let him knock himself out trying that...with his own private business.

But that's nothing what government is about. And that's not how government works. But I'm sure I don't have to explain that at all.

Donny's problem is he has brought his private business practices into government administration. And within 3 years, here we are...

d4m10n 20th October 2019 06:18 PM

"...aides and allies started to contemplate the length of Mulvaney’s tenure in the West Wing."

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/1...e-house-052708

Norman Alexander 20th October 2019 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 12862845)
"...aides and allies started to contemplate the length of Mulvaney’s tenure in the West Wing."

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/1...e-house-052708

I like the last paragraph of that report:
Quote:

Several White House aides and Trump allies presume Mulvaney’s job is safe during the impeachment proceedings. That’s in part, they say, because no one else would want the chief of staff job right now and partly because Mulvaney is too much at the center of the Ukraine scandal for Trump to unceremoniously dump him as he has done with other senior aides like John Bolton, his former national security adviser.
Mulvaney needs to lawyer-up ASAP. He's the one going to take the bullet, not the Secret Service. :rolleyes:

dudalb 21st October 2019 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander (Post 12862782)
No, they're not, actually. But they share one thing in common: The CEO and "the board" need to know what the business is in the business of doing. Why does the organisation even exist. And hopefully, how does this organisation do what it does better.

In short (in management school speak): Mission statement, and business practices.

In a private business, Donny's "mission statement" was pretty clearly "Make me as rich as possible the easiest way possible by any means possible while hanging about looking cool with good-looking women in flashy cars with gold stuff everywhere". And his business practices were "Screw everyone else, I'm all right and **** you if you get in trouble". And to be frank, if that's what he wanted then fine. Let him knock himself out trying that...with his own private business.

But that's nothing what government is about. And that's not how government works. But I'm sure I don't have to explain that at all.

Donny's problem is he has brought his private business practices into government administration. And within 3 years, here we are...


Uh, basic techniques of running a large organization effectively are pretty much the same no matter what the goals are.
I think you are being grossly unfair to private business. Trump's management methods would not be tolerated at most large businesses.

dudalb 21st October 2019 03:52 PM

Uh oh, not looking good for Mulvaney at all

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politi...bfcL&ocid=iehp

I think it's a question not of if, but when.

d4m10n 21st October 2019 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 12864182)
I think it's a question not of if, but when.

Who would sign up to be WH CoS during an impeachment?

a_unique_person 21st October 2019 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 12864182)
Uh oh, not looking good for Mulvaney at all

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politi...bfcL&ocid=iehp

I think it's a question not of if, but when.


As usual, Trump insists on ******* all over the place, then complains that people aren't cleaning it up fast enough.

dudalb 21st October 2019 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 12864184)
Who would sign up to be WH CoS during an impeachment?

That has been cited as the only reason Mulvany is still around.
But if messes up one more time.....

Norman Alexander 21st October 2019 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 12863891)
Uh, basic techniques of running a large organization effectively are pretty much the same no matter what the goals are.

Having worked in both for many years each, I know there are some notable differences. Basically, private is profit-driven, public is service-driven. Different "mission statements".

Quote:

I think you are being grossly unfair to private business. Trump's management methods would not be tolerated at most large businesses.
I agree. Trump's methods would be actively and rapidly stopped by any ethical business which wants to be a successful ongoing enterprise.

My point is if it his own private business then he can do it his way if he wants. And good luck to all who sail in that ship! Trump has always been involved in the dodgiest of dealings and the worst of the underworld shysters. He is a complete dummy, and they have always played him like a fiddle. Which is why Putin has his pale white balls in his desk drawer now.

But the US government is not Trump's own private business. It's owned by the US public and it is service-oriented, not profit-oriented. So his "business methods" not only don't apply, they are diametrically opposite to those required for the job. Which is why he cannot understand why he is being bolloxed for "doing what he always does".

Craig4 21st October 2019 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 12864182)
Uh oh, not looking good for Mulvaney at all

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politi...bfcL&ocid=iehp

I think it's a question not of if, but when.

Well, if you throw you lot in with a racist and a traitor, you get what you deserve.

Minoosh 21st October 2019 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 12864184)
Who would sign up to be WH CoS during an impeachment?

Heck, I'd give it a whirl. What could go wrong?

acbytesla 21st October 2019 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minoosh (Post 12864434)
Heck, I'd give it a whirl. What could go wrong?

You could end up in prison. See Bob Halderman.

quadraginta 21st October 2019 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 12864184)
Who would sign up to be WH CoS during an impeachment?



They wouldn't have to be CoS. They'll only be 'acting' one on TV.

Norman Alexander 21st October 2019 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quadraginta (Post 12864438)
They wouldn't have to be CoS. They'll only be 'acting' one on TV.

Just take the salary, and don't bother coming to the office. Trump does all the "CoS" stuff anyway - let him.

quadraginta 22nd October 2019 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander (Post 12864518)
Just take the salary, and don't bother coming to the office. Trump does all the "CoS" stuff anyway - let him.


I could manage that.

Norman Alexander 22nd October 2019 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quadraginta (Post 12865506)
I could manage that.

Most of us could. If you don't mind the government cost wastage, by all means do it!

quadraginta 23rd October 2019 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander (Post 12865992)
Most of us could. If you don't mind the government cost wastage, by all means do it!


They're gonna pay somebody to do it, no matter what I mind.

Puppycow 24th October 2019 04:30 PM

Anyone else listen to The Daily, the podcast from the New York Times?

There's an interview with former VA Secretary David Shulkin about how he got pushed out of his job.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/24/p...p-ukraine.html

d4m10n 25th October 2019 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puppycow (Post 12868786)
Anyone else listen to The Daily, the podcast from the New York Times?

There's an interview with former VA Secretary David Shulkin about how he got pushed out of his job.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/24/p...p-ukraine.html

Thanks for sharing this. Starting to see a pattern, here.

kellyb 25th October 2019 05:01 AM

Can I get a synopsis of what Shulkin says?

Dr. Keith 25th October 2019 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kellyb (Post 12869369)
Can I get a synopsis of what Shulkin says?

I don't know about that interview, but this is a decent read:

https://time.com/5701364/david-shulkin-donald-trump/

Stacyhs 26th October 2019 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Keith (Post 12869719)
I don't know about that interview, but this is a decent read:

https://time.com/5701364/david-shulkin-donald-trump/

Interesting. The thing that struck me most about his interview with Trump was that Trump never listened to Shulkin. He'd ask a question and then interrupt before Shulkin could answer. It was also not surprising to see Trump ask the same question over and over again but not listen to the answer or attempted answer. It indicates he didn't really wanted or cared to listen to anything Shulkin had to say.

It really did sound like a skit right out of SNL.

Puppycow 26th October 2019 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kellyb (Post 12869369)
Can I get a synopsis of what Shulkin says?

Sorry for not answering sooner.

This is a pretty good synopsis:

https://www.businessinsider.com/davi...ouster-2019-10

Quote:

"I was in agreement that every veteran should get a choice about where they get their care, but I wanted to do this in a way that would not destroy the current VA system, because I believe the VA is doing things the private sector is not doing well," Shulkin explained, worrying that privatizing too quickly or widely would undermine the quality of care.

"That was the issue I fought hardest for, and the one that ultimately ended up costing me my job," Shulkin said, arguing that those political appointees ultimately determined Shulkin needed to be pushed out, and as he tells it, "perfected the art of the leak."

Specifically, Shulkin blames those political appointees for leaking his travel schedule and lodging an allegation — which Shulkin vehemently disputes — that he used government funds to pay for his wife's travel to vacation in Europe.

In reality, Shulkin says, he and his wife, who are both doctors, had both been invited to a Five Eyes security conference in Italy and their travel plans were approved by ethics officials. But the allegation that he misappropriated taxpayer funds was enough to cast a cloud over his job.

Then one day, Shulkin recalled, his deputy security brought him an email he found on a copy machine from one political appointee to other appointees outlining a plan to remove him, his deputy secretary, other senior officials, and "put in place people who agree with us."

Even when Shulkin tried to fire the political appointees trying to destroy his career, he says the White House stepped in and prevented them from being removed.

And even after assurances from Trump himself and former White House chief of staff John Kelly that his job was secure, Trump blindsided Shulkin in April 2018 by ultimately firing him in a tweet.
I do remember how it was reported at the time. As if his wife was taking a taxpayer-funded junket to go shopping in Europe. In fact she is also a doctor and had been invited to attend the same conference with the Secretary, and it had all been approved by the VA in advance. There was a group of political appointees who wanted him fired from early on because they basically wanted to privatize the VA. Get rid of the whole VA system and just let veterans get their care in the private sector (the government would pay for the care, kinda like with Medicare).

Craig4 27th October 2019 07:12 AM

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/...ltered-vpx.cnn

Seems like the stress is getting to Conway. So be it to traitors.

d4m10n 27th October 2019 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig4 (Post 12871430)
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/...ltered-vpx.cnn

Seems like the stress is getting to Conway.

I hope her anonymous book sells well. ;)

Norman Alexander 27th October 2019 12:47 PM

She's looking a LOT older... Maybe Donny could replace her with a younger version now?

d4m10n 28th October 2019 06:22 AM

Another resignation in protest from a top civil servant just tryna get **** done.

https://twitter.com/futurism/status/1187794988878483458

Belz... 28th October 2019 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander (Post 12871688)
She's looking a LOT older... Maybe Donny could replace her with a younger version now?

:newlol

dudalb 30th October 2019 03:38 PM

Mulvaney was kept totally out of the loop on the Baghdadi hit. Not good at all for his prosepcts of being WH COS very much longer.

Trebuchet 30th October 2019 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 12875635)
Mulvaney was kept totally out of the loop on the Baghdadi hit. Not good at all for his prosepcts of being WH COS very much longer.

Meh. Did he have a need to know? Not really.

a_unique_person 30th October 2019 04:27 PM

He didn't need to know but COS is a senior position at the white house.

Stacyhs 30th October 2019 04:35 PM

Obama's CoS was right there in the situation room during the Bin Laden raid.


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