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-   -   The Jan. 6 Investigation (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=353105)

Stacyhs 7th August 2021 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Because Republicans prefer fantasy to reality and are generally stupid.
Quote:

Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
My Dad is very intelligent, high IQ, successful, worked hard and never ripped off anyone. He seemed to be Mr. Logic for so many years to us kids. Not with trump!
Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13562842)
:D

As I've been saying and mgidman86 is agreeing with, a person can be intelligent and really stupid at the same time. He cited his father as an example.

Once again, you ignore what someone is actually saying. Note his use of the word "generally". Unless you want to argue that the majority of Republicans aren't living in a fantasy world when it comes to the "stolen election" and that Trump isn't an authoritarian and that he didn't incite the Jan. 6 insurrection and that he didn't mishandle the Covid pandemic and that he didn't denigrate and politicize wearing masks and that he didn't and isn't polarizing the country with his stupid "rigged election" crap.

Warp12 7th August 2021 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13562865)
As I've been saying and mgidman86 is agreeing with, a person can be intelligent and really stupid at the same time. He cited his father as an example.

I know, and it is funny.

Stacyhs 7th August 2021 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13562849)
OMG how can people make up this **** with a straight face?

Because even intelligent people can be idiots. But from what I've seen of many of Trump's base cultists, they aren't intelligent. They are just plain dumb.

Stacyhs 7th August 2021 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13562866)
I know, and it is funny.

Funny but true. That's why the best comedy is based on truth.

PhantomWolf 7th August 2021 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13562866)
I know, and it is funny.

Some of the most intelligent people I know can be complete idiots in some areas of their lives, this isn't new at any stage.

In fact, smart people are more likely to fall for a con artist's claims.

Crazy Chainsaw 7th August 2021 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13562849)
OMG how can people make up this **** with a straight face?

It helps if your a Russian useful idiot Trump Advisor.

Warp12 7th August 2021 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf (Post 13562940)
Some of the most intelligent people I know can be complete idiots in some areas of their lives, this isn't new at any stage.

Yes, and it isn't new to any forum populace, either. No matter what they might think of themselves.

The Great Zaganza 7th August 2021 10:30 PM

If you start out from the conviction that X is BAD (i.e. Democrats), then your intelligence will let you come up with scenarios why your side is GOOD, no matter what the actual facts.
The reason the Trump world needs to believe in so many CTs is precisely because the facts don't fit their premises.

Skeptic Ginger 7th August 2021 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13562868)
Because even intelligent people can be idiots. But from what I've seen of many of Trump's base cultists, they aren't intelligent. They are just plain dumb.

But he's not telling us something he has come to believe in that video, he's claiming he's a first hand witness to those events.

And it's pretty damn clear it is a bald faced lie.

Skeptic Ginger 7th August 2021 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw (Post 13562965)
It helps if your a Russian useful idiot Trump Advisor.

So was Dump his target audience?

That would at least make the lying make sense. Though I have seen lots of people who spout lies and you have to wonder if they know they are lying or not.

This is half speculation from people and incidents I know: I think when some people make up stuff like claiming they had some experience like Brian Williams exaggerating his adventures, they know they are lying. Maybe it's a continuum. Saying you have a degree you don't have would be on one end of the spectrum. Lying about some event you were part of would be in the middle, so far that person knows they are making stuff up.

But on the far end of the spectrum there must be people who confuse reality with their lies.

I have no idea about the guy in the video except he sounds like he believes it but he could be totally faking it.

Just so the spectrum is clear here, what I'm talking about differs from the people who think they were abducted by aliens but they are drawing false conclusions based on signs like waking up and believing they had missing time so they create a story around that rather than outright lying about having had that experience.

OK, I'll stop now. :p

Crazy Chainsaw 8th August 2021 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13563079)
So was Dump his target audience?

That would at least make the lying make sense. Though I have seen lots of people who spout lies and you have to wonder if they know they are lying or not.

This is half speculation from people and incidents I know: I think when some people make up stuff like claiming they had some experience like Brian Williams exaggerating his adventures, they know they are lying. Maybe it's a continuum. Saying you have a degree you don't have would be on one end of the spectrum. Lying about some event you were part of would be in the middle, so far that person knows they are making stuff up.

But on the far end of the spectrum there must be people who confuse reality with their lies.

I have no idea about the guy in the video except he sounds like he believes it but he could be totally faking it.

Just so the spectrum is clear here, what I'm talking about differs from the people who think they were abducted by aliens but they are drawing false conclusions based on signs like waking up and believing they had missing time so they create a story around that rather than outright lying about having had that experience.

OK, I'll stop now. :p

Cotsi Lies to sell books but he is practically worshipped by the Oklahoma city bombing Conspiracy theorist oath Keepers, especially after the Mueller Investigation and his refusal to make a plea deal. Mueller couldn't prove God didn't give Corsi the Pondesta information so Corsi walked on the gift from God defense. I personally think it was a gift from Putin.
I have been watching Corsi and the oath keepers since 2008, when they started Harassing me over the Birther nonsense.
They were always dangerous on January 6th they proved it.
After January 6th Corsi started deleting several videos from his YouTube Chanel destroying evidence.

mgidm86 8th August 2021 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13562744)
Maybe he trolled you.


No I can spot trolls.

mgidm86 8th August 2021 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13562842)
:D

I said generally stupid, not all :D

Stacyhs 8th August 2021 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgidm86 (Post 13563760)
I said generally stupid, not all :D

Yes, you did and it was clear what you meant but Warp12 pulled his usual M.O. which has become even more obvious.

Skeptic Ginger 8th August 2021 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13563823)
Yes, you did and it was clear what you meant but Warp12 pulled his usual M.O. which has become even more obvious.

Which suggests very strongly that not only are lies being propagated here about voter fraud, that is actually the goal: make up **** and spread it around.

Otherwise one would expect at a minimum to see at least a cursory response to the registration and the one fraudulent vote at a time issues.

Nope, it's crickets.

Warp12 8th August 2021 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13563823)
Yes, you did and it was clear what you meant but Warp12 pulled his usual M.O. which has become even more obvious.

The funny part is how Republicans are "generally stupid", but when it is a close family member, to paraphrase, "they are highly intelligent, but misguided".

If you can't see the humor in that, I don't know what to tell you. :D

TheGoldcountry 8th August 2021 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13563888)
The funny part is how Republicans are "generally stupid", but when it is a close family member, to paraphrase, "they are highly intelligent, but misguided".

If you can't see the humor in that, I don't know what to tell you. :D

Sincere question: Do you think that anyone here falls for your ********?

There's only one forum member that thinks you're clever.

Belz... 8th August 2021 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by varwoche (Post 13558167)
I don't recall ever seeing such a finely distilled example of JAQing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13558177)
THIS.


I've lost, haven't I? I've not been able to explain to you or anyone else that this isn't what JAQing is... :(

Stacyhs 8th August 2021 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGoldcountry (Post 13563891)
Sincere question: Do you think that anyone here falls for your ********?

There's only one forum member that thinks you're clever.

:bigclap

Crazy Chainsaw 8th August 2021 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13563888)
The funny part is how Republicans are "generally stupid", but when it is a close family member, to paraphrase, "they are highly intelligent, but misguided".

If you can't see the humor in that, I don't know what to tell you. :D

It's called confirmation bias and being Scammed.

Belz... 8th August 2021 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13563888)
The funny part is how Republicans are "generally stupid", but when it is a close family member, to paraphrase, "they are highly intelligent, but misguided".

There's nothing funny about squandering one's intelligence.

acbytesla 8th August 2021 06:41 PM

I'm a huge WW2 history buff. But what is most fascinating is how Hitler rose to power. Nobody took him seriously. He was a buffoon, a clown. The people wouldn't follow him. But he appealed to something awful that lurks in humans. Joseph McCarthy was similar. It's tribal. It's that John Wayne, Clint Eastwood macho simplistic black/white authoritarianism.

Stacyhs 8th August 2021 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acbytesla (Post 13563910)
I'm a huge WW2 history buff. But what is most fascinating is how Hitler rose to power. Nobody took him seriously. He was a buffoon, a clown. The people wouldn't follow him. But he appealed to something awful that lurks in humans. Joseph McCarthy was similar. It's tribal. It's that John Wayne, Clint Eastwood macho simplistic black/white authoritarianism.

Seeing the world in black and white rather than its true shades of gray nuances is a tendency shared by extremists on both ends of the political spectrum.

jimbob 9th August 2021 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13564004)
Seeing the world in black and white rather than its true shades of gray nuances is a tendency shared by extremists on both ends of the political spectrum.

Who are quite often the same person at different times of their lives.

Almost as though it's the certainty of the dogma rather than the content that's appealing.

mgidm86 10th August 2021 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13563888)
The funny part is how Republicans are "generally stupid", but when it is a close family member, to paraphrase, "they are highly intelligent, but misguided".

If you can't see the humor in that, I don't know what to tell you. :D


Wrong. I have other close family Trump supporters that are actually pretty stupid. My Dad is not.

mgidm86 10th August 2021 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw (Post 13563897)
It's called confirmation bias and being Scammed.

See above and try again.

The Great Zaganza 10th August 2021 10:40 PM

Parents and grandparents, in my experience, often have a knee jerk bias towards against progressivism because they are worried about their offspring. Trump gives out false certainty, and that certainty that tomorrow will continue to be very much like today is what is attractive to older voters.

mgidm86 11th August 2021 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza (Post 13566454)
Parents and grandparents, in my experience, often have a knee jerk bias towards against progressivism because they are worried about their offspring. Trump gives out false certainty, and that certainty that tomorrow will continue to be very much like today is what is attractive to older voters.


Not my Dad. He has his. His kids can fend for themselves. He's selfish with his money, and politics is all about how it affects him personally, nothing more. He's a good Dad but it's the truth. He doesn't realize he is this way, the rest of us do.

My Dad is a lost cause though, and not just because he's old. His best friend was Goldwater Jr's Chief Of Staff, and he was very good friends with Reagan. His name is John/Jack Cox if anyone cares.

This guy is way more conservative than my Dad but my Dad thinks he's a big deal. He is a great family friend, and politics aside a pretty good guy.

acbytesla 11th August 2021 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13564004)
Seeing the world in black and white rather than its true shades of gray nuances is a tendency shared by extremists on both ends of the political spectrum.

One of my favorite examples of this is Robespierre. He wanted a democracy and the rule of law. He was against capital punishment and for a more progressive society. Yet he led the Reign of Terror which saw thousands of executions including one of the greatest scientists
Lavoisier with little or no evidence.

He very much felt it was for the greater good.

His zeal also resulted in his own execution.

abaddon 11th August 2021 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgidm86 (Post 13567280)
Not my Dad. He has his. His kids can fend for themselves. He's selfish with his money, and politics is all about how it affects him personally, nothing more. He's a good Dad but it's the truth. He doesn't realize he is this way, the rest of us do.

My Dad is a lost cause though, and not just because he's old. His best friend was Goldwater Jr's Chief Of Staff, and he was very good friends with Reagan. His name is John/Jack Cox if anyone cares.

This guy is way more conservative than my Dad but my Dad thinks he's a big deal. He is a great family friend, and politics aside a pretty good guy.

I am going with you here. My long dead father was a smart guy and rose to high office in government departments, yet still remained to his dying day a devout catholic. He managed to raise four godless atheist children (me being number three of four). I always like to observe that he was not just a gentleman, but also a gentle man. There is a distinction.

At one point, as a holy roman catholic, he decided that we should have a rosary every night. So, initially, we four went along to keep the peace, After a while of droning, we all found excuses for not attending.

I have this thing to attend to, or this club to go to or this school thing to do, so eventually he was on his lonesome.

Anything to avoid the religious bollocks.

Stacyhs 11th August 2021 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abaddon (Post 13567352)
I am going with you here. My long dead father was a smart guy and rose to high office in government departments, yet still remained to his dying day a devout catholic. He managed to raise four godless atheist children (me being number three of four). I always like to observe that he was not just a gentleman, but also a gentle man. There is a distinction.

At one point, as a holy roman catholic, he decided that we should have a rosary every night. So, initially, we four went along to keep the peace, After a while of droning, we all found excuses for not attending.

I have this thing to attend to, or this club to go to or this school thing to do, so eventually he was on his lonesome.

Anything to avoid the religious bollocks.

When my daughter was about 8, my in-laws took the whole family (about 14 of us) to Hawaii on the money my husband's brother had left in his will for such a trip. My husband's eldest brother and his family are Mormons (the other 3 brothers all formally left that religion as soon as they could) and none of us practiced any religion. As we all sat in a restaurant at a large, long table, the eldest (Mormon) brother decided he needed to say a blessing, taking for granted that everyone else would be Ok with it. When his long "Heavenly Father, thank you..." prayer finally ended, we all hear this voice down at the far end where the kids were sitting: "Well, that was a waste of time!" Yup. My kid. I was so proud.:blush:

gabeygoat 11th August 2021 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13567478)
When my daughter was about 8, my in-laws took the whole family (about 14 of us) to Hawaii on the money my husband's brother had left in his will for such a trip. My husband's eldest brother and his family are Mormons (the other 3 brothers all formally left that religion as soon as they could) and none of us practiced any religion. As we all sat in a restaurant at a large, long table, the eldest (Mormon) brother decided he needed to say a blessing, taking for granted that everyone else would be Ok with it. When his long "Heavenly Father, thank you..." prayer finally ended, we all hear this voice down at the far end where the kids were sitting: "Well, that was a waste of time!" Yup. My kid. I was so proud.:blush:

Haha, awesome

SuburbanTurkey 12th August 2021 07:29 AM

Quote:

The House select committee investigating the January 6 Capitol riot has hired an investigator that it probably should be bringing in as a witness instead.

The committee tasked with finding out how January 6 was allowed to happen announced last Friday that it had hired Joe Maher, a senior official at the Department of Homeland Security, to help run its investigation into the failures that led to the tragic day. That’s an alarming conflict of interest: Maher was running one of the key offices that may have contributed to that failure.
https://www.vice.com/amp/en/article/...stigator-maher

abaddon 12th August 2021 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13567478)
When my daughter was about 8, my in-laws took the whole family (about 14 of us) to Hawaii on the money my husband's brother had left in his will for such a trip. My husband's eldest brother and his family are Mormons (the other 3 brothers all formally left that religion as soon as they could) and none of us practiced any religion. As we all sat in a restaurant at a large, long table, the eldest (Mormon) brother decided he needed to say a blessing, taking for granted that everyone else would be Ok with it. When his long "Heavenly Father, thank you..." prayer finally ended, we all hear this voice down at the far end where the kids were sitting: "Well, that was a waste of time!" Yup. My kid. I was so proud.:blush:

LOL. Years ago my kids staged a rebellion against my hex-wife about Sunday church. They simply refused to go. I got the blame, of course, but I was as surprised as anyone. Up to then, I had carefully avoided such theological issues. Nevertheless, one Sunday they simply downed tools and refused to get out of bed. The convo had me going "You did WHAT? Bwahahahahahahaha" rather often.

Stacyhs 12th August 2021 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abaddon (Post 13568349)
LOL. Years ago my kids staged a rebellion against my hex-wife about Sunday church. They simply refused to go. I got the blame, of course, but I was as surprised as anyone. Up to then, I had carefully avoided such theological issues. Nevertheless, one Sunday they simply downed tools and refused to get out of bed. The convo had me going "You did WHAT? Bwahahahahahahaha" rather often.

Was that intentional? LOL!

Ziggurat 20th August 2021 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parsman (Post 13554142)
You seem to be being contrarian for the sake of it. A large group of people gathered at the behest of 45, and were whipped into a frenzy by rhetoric from45, Giuliani, Brooks etc. They were urged to go to The Capitol and "Stop the Steal". They proceeded to try to do that by the use of force, intimidation and violence. They were even prepared to attack and injure law enforcement to achieve their ends, that end being stopping a democratic transfer of power and keep the loser in power. Your quibble seems to be this wasn't a coup because... reasons? It might not have been the most organised of coups, it might not have had military backing. Heck given the loons heading the movement, 45 and his minions, I doubt they could plan the proverbial piss up in the brewery but it was an attempted violent overthrow of an election. So get out your thesaurus if you don't like the word coup, but your side has to own this for what it was, and the enquiry I am sure will clarify that enough even for you.

Are you still sure?
Exclusive: FBI finds scant evidence U.S. Capitol attack was coordinated - sources

Stacyhs 20th August 2021 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggurat (Post 13576314)

An attempted coup doesn't have to be coordinated or well organized.


Quote:

A coup d'état (/ˌkuːdeɪˈtɑː/ ( listen); French for "blow of state"), usually shortened to coup, is the seizure and removal of a government and its powers. Typically, it is an illegal, unconstitutional seizure of power by a political faction, the military, or a dictator.
Did the insurgents attempt to stop the vote verification? Yes
Was the intent to stop the installation of the legally elected Biden? Yes
Was the insurgents' attempt to stop the verification by storming the Capitol illegal? Yes
Was the attempt to stop the verification unconstitutional? Yes
Was it done by a political faction? Yes

Sounds like an attempted coup to me.

Ziggurat 20th August 2021 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13576332)
An attempted coup doesn't have to be coordinated or well organized.

In principle, it's logically possible for such an attempt to be purely spur of the moment. But that wasn't what was under discussion. Going back one more post in the exchange, this is what theprestige asked about, which Parsman's post was in response to:

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 13554057)
Tell me more. Tell me about the coup plot. Tell me about the conspiracy to assassinate government officials. Who were the ringleaders of this plot? Who were the operatives? Where are the informers who blew the conspiracy wide open?

A plot does need to be organized, even if not well organized. But even the conspiracies which were organized (though not well) were apparently not conspiracies to commit a coup or assassinate government officials. Quoting from my link:
"FBI investigators did find that cells of protesters, including followers of the far-right Oath Keepers and Proud Boys groups, had aimed to break into the Capitol. But they found no evidence that the groups had serious plans about what to do if they made it inside, the sources said."

acbytesla 20th August 2021 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13576332)
An attempted coup doesn't have to be coordinated or well organized.




Did the insurgents attempt to stop the vote verification? Yes
Was the intent to stop the installation of the legally elected Biden? Yes
Was the insurgents' attempt to stop the verification by storming the Capitol illegal? Yes
Was the attempt to stop the verification unconstitutional? Yes
Was it done by a political faction? Yes

Sounds like an attempted coup to me.

This.:thumbsup:

carlitos 20th August 2021 02:53 PM

Yeah, it's really weird that a coup planned by Rudy Giuliani, Mo Brooks, Ali Alexander and the lady from Publix would be so poorly coordinated.


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