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-   -   The Jan. 6 Investigation (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=353105)

mgidm86 22nd September 2021 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13606674)
If it makes you feel better, the crackpot legal defense is undoubtedly making her experience with the justice system much more punitive than it otherwise would be.

Other similarly charged J6 CHUDs have already plead out to sentences that do not include prison time, and this lady has managed to talk herself into pretrial detention.

She's giving herself totally avoidable jail time.



It does.

Paul2 22nd September 2021 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13606395)
What positives, such as security changes, have come out of the 1/6 event?

Another positive is a realization of the political and social danger that that side of the political spectrum poses to our democracy.

The Great Zaganza 22nd September 2021 09:03 PM

the biggest positive coming out of the 1/6 Coup is that law enforcement and the press are no longer shy about calling out right-extremist violence for what it is.

Susheel 22nd September 2021 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul2 (Post 13607444)
Another positive is a realization of the political and social danger that that side of the political spectrum poses to our democracy.


Quote:

The Great Zaganza the biggest positive coming out of the 1/6 Coup is that law enforcement and the press are no longer shy about calling out right-extremist violence for what it is.
Ha...now watch all your reasoning fall apart when Warp 12 brings in his devastating eye roll. You are lucky e hasn't deployed his laughing dog.

Stacyhs 23rd September 2021 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Susheel (Post 13607779)
Ha...now watch all your reasoning fall apart when Warp 12 brings in his devastating eye roll. You are lucky e hasn't deployed his laughing dog.

:lolsign:

SuburbanTurkey 23rd September 2021 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza (Post 13607776)
the biggest positive coming out of the 1/6 Coup is that law enforcement and the press are no longer shy about calling out right-extremist violence for what it is.

Is that the case though?

Fascist rallies have been occurring with regularity on the west coast at full pace ever since Jan 6. Local cops remain enablers, and local press and politicians are still quite restrained in their coverage.

There seems to be somewhat of a consensus that the Jan6 riot was bad and motivated by extreme-right politics, but little interest in exploring this problem more broadly. The Jan6 riot is often treated as an anomalous event, which it absolutely is not.

Stacyhs 23rd September 2021 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Susheel (Post 13607779)
Ha...now watch all your reasoning fall apart when Warp 12 brings in his devastating eye roll. You are lucky e hasn't deployed his laughing dog.

I had my own eye roll at Warp's use of the word 'event' as in "the Jan 6 event". Not 'riot', not 'insurrection', but 'event'.
It's interesting that he hasn't been back since asking his question and getting several answers. Somehow, I don't think they were the answers he was expecting...or wanted.

Stacyhs 23rd September 2021 04:45 PM

The Jan 6 Committee has issued its first subpoenas to Mark Meadows, Dan Scavino, Steve Bannon and Kash Patel. All of them were directly communicating with Trump on Jan. 6. Expect them to ignore the subpoenas.

smartcooky 23rd September 2021 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13608640)
The Jan 6 Committee has issued its first subpoenas to Mark Meadows, Dan Scavino, Steve Bannon and Kash Patel. All of them were directly communicating with Trump on Jan. 6. Expect them to ignore the subpoenas.

If they ignore the subpoenas, then it will be time for the Dems to stop playing nicely. Now that they have the power of govenrment, they need to issue arrest warrants if the witnesses refuse to come testify, then have them brought before the committee in handcuffs if necessary.

I know darned well that is any ordinary citizen were to ignore a subpoena, that is precisely what would happen to them. Why should these bastards be any different?

Stacyhs 23rd September 2021 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smartcooky (Post 13608813)
If they ignore the subpoenas, then it will be time for the Dems to stop playing nicely. Now that they have the power of govenrment, they need to issue arrest warrants if the witnesses refuse to come testify, then have them brought before the committee in handcuffs if necessary.

I know darned well that is any ordinary citizen were to ignore a subpoena, that is precisely what would happen to them. Why should these bastards be any different?

Agreed. Donnie has already said they will fight the subpoenas on Executive Privilege which is not surprising. It's not clear if this argument will work for a former president.

The Great Zaganza 23rd September 2021 11:43 PM

Depends on the Courts.
But the DOJ has already established that the Jan 6 rally was a campaign event (which is why they won't defend what's-his-face).
That means that is not protected by executive privilege.

Stacyhs 24th September 2021 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza (Post 13608890)
Depends on the Courts.
But the DOJ has already established that the Jan 6 rally was a campaign event (which is why they won't defend what's-his-face).
That means that is not protected by executive privilege.

What the Committee really wants to know is what was said and done by Trump before the rally and after he'd gone back to the WH as the riot was occurring.

The Great Zaganza 24th September 2021 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13608930)
What the Committee really wants to know is what was said and done by Trump before the rally and after he'd gone back to the WH as the riot was occurring.

If it's in regard to the rally z that should be fair game for the Committee.
But I expect that it will have to get litigated.

Stacyhs 24th September 2021 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza (Post 13608933)
If it's in regard to the rally z that should be fair game for the Committee.
But I expect that it will have to get litigated.

There's little doubt of that. They'll try and pull the same stunt they always do: stall using the courts.

dudalb 24th September 2021 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13608960)
There's little doubt of that. They'll try and pull the same stunt they always do: stall using the courts.

And it won't work, you know the stuff in the papers Biden will not shield will be leaked.

Stacyhs 24th September 2021 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13609612)
And it won't work, you know the stuff in the papers Biden will not shield will be leaked.

I wouldn't be so sure of that re the court stalling.

Bennie Thompson has already said they would be looking at filing contempt charges if the subpoenas are ignored but the DOJ would have to get involved then. Biden is not going to interfere with the DOJ the way Trump did.

This is funny:

Quote:

Trump promised to use powers he once wielded as president to "fight" the subpoenas, while suggesting that the 1/6 committee should issue subpoenas to "Antifa" and Black Lives Matter—two loosely organized, decentralized groups that were not involved in the January 6 insurrection.
What a maroon!

smartcooky 25th September 2021 04:08 AM

In an MSNBC interview of Rep Jamie Raskin by Chris Hayes this afternoon, on the Bannan, Meadows, Patel and Scavino subpoenas...

"They're thinking that we're the pre-Donald Trump Democratic Party; we're the post-Donald Trump Democratic party... we understand every game and gimmick the Republicans like to play, and we're not going to show them that kind of respect any more. We're not going to give them weeks and months to play games and not turn stuff in. We want something from them; they're going to turn it over. We’re going to subpoena them, they’re going to follow the law. That’s it. If any of them think they are going to be able to slither away from this, they should be wondering about the information we’ve already got within our possession, in the committee"

I really do hope the worm has turned here.

jnelso99 25th September 2021 08:16 AM

So…even more strongly-worded letters and sarcastic clapping before rolling over for the Republicans?

dudalb 25th September 2021 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smartcooky (Post 13609985)
In an MSNBC interview of Rep Jamie Raskin by Chris Hayes this afternoon, on the Bannan, Meadows, Patel and Scavino subpoenas...

"They're thinking that we're the pre-Donald Trump Democratic Party; we're the post-Donald Trump Democratic party... we understand every game and gimmick the Republicans like to play, and we're not going to show them that kind of respect any more. We're not going to give them weeks and months to play games and not turn stuff in. We want something from them; they're going to turn it over. We’re going to subpoena them, they’re going to follow the law. That’s it. If any of them think they are going to be able to slither away from this, they should be wondering about the information we’ve already got within our possession, in the committee"

I really do hope the worm has turned here.

Not seeing much sign o fit, since the Dems have gone back to fighting each other more then the GOP.....

Ladewig 26th September 2021 04:46 AM

Deleted by user

Ladewig 27th September 2021 09:02 PM

Is it just me or would the Republican Jan 6th sound bites make great song titles?

“We Need to Move On”
“No One Wants to Talk About That Anymore”
“Zero Threat”
“Hugging and Kissing the Police”
“The Dems will Politicize It”
“For the Hundredth Time, False Flag”
“Whatabout, Whatabout, Whatabout”
“Fake News, FAKE NEWS”
“No One can Tell Me Why an Investigation is Necessary”

tyr_13 27th September 2021 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ladewig (Post 13612267)
Is it just me or would the Republican Jan 6th sound bites make great song titles?

“We Need to Move On”
“No One Wants to Talk About That Anymore”
“Zero Threat”
“Hugging and Kissing the Police”
“The Dems will Politicize It”
“For the Hundredth Time, False Flag”
“Whatabout, Whatabout, Whatabout”
“Fake News, FAKE NEWS”
“No One can Tell Me Why an Investigation is Necessary”

"No One Can Tell Me Why an investigation is Necessary by My Chemical Romance" - by Panic! At the Disco

Stacyhs 27th September 2021 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ladewig (Post 13612267)
Is it just me or would the Republican Jan 6th sound bites make great song titles?

“We Need to Move On”
“No One Wants to Talk About That Anymore”
“Zero Threat”
“Hugging and Kissing the Police”
“The Dems will Politicize It”
“For the Hundredth Time, False Flag”
“Whatabout, Whatabout, Whatabout”
“Fake News, FAKE NEWS”
“No One can Tell Me Why an Investigation is Necessary”

Definitely Country music titles!

"They Were Real Patriots!"
"They Did Nothing Wrong"
"Undercover Antifa!"
"It Wasn't an Armed Insurrection"
"We Were Following Orders"

jimbob 28th September 2021 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13612328)
Definitely Country music titles!

"They Were Real Patriots!"
"They Did Nothing Wrong"
"Undercover Antifa!"
"It Wasn't an Armed Insurrection"
"We Were Following Orders"


“No One can Tell Me Why an Investigation is Necessary”

Has to be an 80*'s power ballad



*Referring to the median IQ of the protesters

Stacyhs 29th September 2021 02:12 AM

A woman who said she was looking for Pelosi "to shoot her in the face" has pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor of unlawful protest. She said she was "just kidding". Yeah...all those idiots breaking into the Capitol and attacking officers were 'just kidding'. She wasn't charged with threatening Pelosi because she was in the act of leaving the Capitol when she said it and that would make it more difficult to prove it was a serious threat.

Ziggurat 29th September 2021 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13613712)
A woman who said she was looking for Pelosi "to shoot her in the face" has pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor of unlawful protest. She said she was "just kidding". Yeah...all those idiots breaking into the Capitol and attacking officers were 'just kidding'. She wasn't charged with threatening Pelosi because she was in the act of leaving the Capitol when she said it and that would make it more difficult to prove it was a serious threat.

Of course it was an empty threat. That's been obvious from the start. She's an idiot, but there's no evidence she even had a gun. You can be sure that if there was any evidence of that, she would be facing a weapons charge too.

Stacyhs 29th September 2021 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggurat (Post 13614014)
Of course it was an empty threat. That's been obvious from the start. She's an idiot, but there's no evidence she even had a gun. You can be sure that if there was any evidence of that, she would be facing a weapons charge too.

Obvious? No. There is also no evidence she didn't have a gun which we know several of the insurrectionists did. There is no telling what she would have done if she had been able to find Pelosi. But you go on minimizing what these jerks did. Maybe she was only "joking"?

Stacyhs 29th September 2021 11:23 PM

Congressional subpoenas have been issued to 12 organizers of the Jan. 6 rally.

Upchurch 30th September 2021 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggurat (Post 13614014)
Of course it was an empty threat. That's been obvious from the start. She's an idiot, but there's no evidence she even had a gun. You can be sure that if there was any evidence of that, she would be facing a weapons charge too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13614954)
Obvious? No. There is also no evidence she didn't have a gun which we know several of the insurrectionists did. There is no telling what she would have done if she had been able to find Pelosi. But you go on minimizing what these jerks did. Maybe she was only "joking"?

Agreed. IIRC, this is the woman who entered the building through a broken window and was actively looking for Pelosi with stated plans to kill her, correct? What is obviously empty about that? If she’d said the same thing talking to her friends on her back porch during a cookout, that would have obviously been an empty threat. Someone breaking into your place of work and saying they want to put a bullet in your head is objectively a more serious and credible statement. They’ve taken at least some of the necessary actions to enact that threat.

Ziggurat 30th September 2021 04:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13614954)
Obvious? No. There is also no evidence she didn't have a gun which we know several of the insurrectionists did.

I bet she doesn’t even own a gun. The FBI would likely have detailed any guns she owned, if she did. After all, they even detailed Lego sets owned by people they are prosecuting in their indictments.

Quote:

There is no telling what she would have done if she had been able to find Pelosi.
If she found Pelosi? She never even went looking.

Quote:

But you go on minimizing what these jerks did. Maybe she was only "joking"?
Joke is probably the wrong word. More likely empty bravado.

Ziggurat 30th September 2021 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Upchurch (Post 13615098)
Agreed. IIRC, this is the woman who entered the building through a broken window and was actively looking for Pelosi with stated plans to kill her, correct?

Incorrect. She never went past the area she entered, which can hardly be termed searching for anyone. And her threat was made after leaving the building.

Upchurch 30th September 2021 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggurat (Post 13615107)
Incorrect. She never went past the area she entered, which can hardly be termed searching for anyone. And her threat was made after leaving the building.

But she entered the building through a window and wanted to kill Pelosi. Do you think she only thought of the murder part after she had already left?

Come on, Zig. You wear your partisan blinders with pride, but you aren’t that naive.

Crazy Chainsaw 30th September 2021 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggurat (Post 13615107)
Incorrect. She never went past the area she entered, which can hardly be termed searching for anyone. And her threat was made after leaving the building.

Everyone who Entered that building did so in attempt to commit criminal acts inside.

Crazy Chainsaw 30th September 2021 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13614955)
Congressional subpoenas have been issued to 12 organizers of the Jan. 6 rally.

Good now just hope they rat on the rest as rats do.

Ziggurat 30th September 2021 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw (Post 13615113)
Everyone who Entered that building did so in attempt to commit criminal acts inside.

Perhaps. But again, zero evidence that specific woman was ever an actual safety threat to Pelosi. And the FBI isn’t contending that she was either.

Ziggurat 30th September 2021 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Upchurch (Post 13615111)
But she entered the building through a window and wanted to kill Pelosi.

She entered in through a window. We do not know she actually wanted to kill Pelosi.

Are you really unfamiliar with the idea that people make threats they have no interest in actually carrying out?

Quote:

Do you think she only thought of the murder part after she had already left?
Like I said, I doubt this woman even owns a gun. So yeah, if she went in unarmed, then I’m pretty sure she didn’t go in planning to shoot anyone. Bragging about doing what you don’t even have the capability to do is very much the sort of thing stupid people do on the spur of the moment.

Quote:

Come on, Zig. You wear your partisan blinders with pride, but you aren’t that naive.
You have stretched this far beyond what even the FBI is claiming. You have invented a whole narrative for which there isn’t any real evidence. And I’m being partisan and naive?

This woman is an idiot, not an attempted murderer.

Upchurch 30th September 2021 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggurat (Post 13615122)
She entered in through a window. We do not know she actually wanted to kill Pelosi.

She literally said she wanted to put a bullet in Pelosi’s head (or was it her face?)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggurat (Post 13615122)
Are you really unfamiliar with the idea that people make threats they have no interest in actually carrying out?

Sure, people do that. They typically aren’t the people climbing in through broken windows to where their potential victims currently are during the corse of making those threats.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggurat (Post 13615122)
Like I said, I doubt this woman even owns a gun.

Your opinion means little.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggurat (Post 13615122)
You have invented a whole narrative for which there isn’t any real evidence.

So have you, in case you hadn’t noticed. Your confirmation bias is set on high.

Ziggurat 30th September 2021 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Upchurch (Post 13615133)
She literally said she wanted to put a bullet in Pelosi’s head (or was it her face?)

Like I said, lots of people make empty threats all the time. It's a pretty normal thing.

Quote:

Sure, people do that. They typically aren’t the people climbing in through broken windows to where their potential victims currently are during the corse of making those threats.
Pelosi wasn't near that broken window. And again, she made the threat AFTER leaving, so there's no "in the course of making those threats" involved.

Quote:

Your opinion means little.
And yours does?

The FBI does not contend that she intended to carry out her threat. They do not contend she was even capable of carrying it out. Yet you have concluded she did and she was. Confirmation bias indeed.

Upchurch 30th September 2021 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggurat (Post 13615142)
Like I said, lots of people make empty threats all the time. It's a pretty normal thing.

Only if you completely ignore the context in which the threat was made. Which you are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggurat (Post 13615142)
Pelosi wasn't near that broken window. And again, she made the threat AFTER leaving, so there's no "in the course of making those threats" involved.

She recorded it at the site during the attack on the Capitol. Pelosi was a heck of a lot closer to that broken window than she was to anywhere one usually makes empty threats.

If an unknown person were to break into your office building during a time when you were there and be heard to say, "I'm going to find and kill Ziggurat!" as they left. Would you consider that to be merely an empty threat?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggurat (Post 13615142)
And yours does?

It is not an opinion that we do not know if she was armed when she broke into the Capitol building. It is a statement of fact until more evidence immerges. You are the one dismissing her threat solely because of your beliefs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggurat (Post 13615142)
The FBI does not contend that she intended to carry out her threat. They do not contend she was even capable of carrying it out.

They are not able to provide evidence that she intended to carry it out beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law. That's not quite the same thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggurat (Post 13615142)
Yet you have concluded she did and she was. Confirmation bias indeed.

I contend her threat was credible. As someone who deals with security of a different kind (and certainly not with the life-and-death stakes), the safest approach when someone breaks into a building and says they want to kill someone in side is to believe them. They're failure to follow through does not mean her intent had not been genuine at the time or that she was not a risk.

The Great Zaganza 30th September 2021 07:38 AM

There is no evidence that the people who shouted "hang Mike Pence" ever intended to cause him harm.


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