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-   -   Weapons, poll (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=357725)

Craig4 8th July 2022 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13848334)
The solution is not to sell or give more arms because it will only make more victimes, the arms given to Ukraine are resold everywhere in the world and now in the hands of dealers. That what happened to your vote, you voted for criminals.

How will Ukraine keep killing Russians if we don't give them weapons?

The only good Russian soldier is a dead Russian soldier. We need to help Ukraine make more good Russian soldiers.

Thermal 8th July 2022 01:58 PM

This really doesn't seem like such a complex and nuanced topic to go on for 17 pages. How often can you say "no"?

Doubt 8th July 2022 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thermal (Post 13851433)
This really doesn't seem like such a complex and nuanced topic to go on for 17 pages. How often can you say "no"?

Look on the bright side. This thread gives those on the left and right side of the political spectrum something they can agree on.

The Man 8th July 2022 03:55 PM

Japan's former prime minister, Shinzo Abe, was recently assassinated with what was apparently a home made firearm. Again, I ask you how can firearms be eliminated when they are so easy to produce? Again, the first firearms were just cast barrels packed with powder and projectiles.

ETA: For your own edification, David Marshall WilliamsWP designed and built four semi-automatic rifles in just a prison machine shop.

Gaetan 10th July 2022 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Man (Post 13851519)
Japan's former prime minister, Shinzo Abe, was recently assassinated with what was apparently a home made firearm. Again, I ask you how can firearms be eliminated when they are so easy to produce? Again, the first firearms were just cast barrels packed with powder and projectiles.

ETA: For your own edification, David Marshall WilliamsWP designed and built four semi-automatic rifles in just a prison machine shop.

This is just more easy to buy it at the market place if you can than try to make it yourself. Fire arms easy to get make victime more easy to be killed.

The Great Zaganza 10th July 2022 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13852547)
This is just more easy to buy it at the market place if you can than try to make it yourself. Fire arms easy to get make victime more easy to be killed.

so you would ban home-made guns, too?
and if so, how?

Gaetan 10th July 2022 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza (Post 13852561)
so you would ban home-made guns, too?
and if so, how?

You make a law that it is illegal to have fire arms or produce it and for those who don't respect the law you send the police to their home to pick up the weapons.

Craig4 10th July 2022 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13852566)
You make a law that it is illegal to have fire arms or produce it and for those who don't respect the law you send the police to their home to pick up the weapons.

Great, we'll have the Ukrainian police swing by and pick up all of Russia's weapons.

The Man 10th July 2022 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13852547)
This is just more easy to buy it at the market place if you can than try to make it yourself. Fire arms easy to get make victime more easy to be killed.


Right, you buy it at the market place instead of making it yourself simply because, someone else made it. So unless you can stop people from making them you can't stop people from buying them. How do you stop people from making them?

The Man 10th July 2022 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13852566)
You make a law that it is illegal to have fire arms or produce it and for those who don't respect the law you send the police to their home to pick up the weapons.


I'm pretty sure that there were such laws in place in Japan at the time of the assassination. Laws don't stop people already committed to breaking such laws.

And once again how do your unarmed police get weapons from people who have them, don't want to give them up and are already willing to break the law?

Gaetan 10th July 2022 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Man (Post 13852618)
I'm pretty sure that there were such laws in place in Japan at the time of the assassination. Laws don't stop people already committed to breaking such laws.

And once again how do your unarmed police get weapons from people who have them, don't want to give them up and are already willing to break the law?

What makes life easy to kill you just get more people dead

junkshop 10th July 2022 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13852629)
What makes life easy to kill you just get more people dead

Gibberish.

The Man 10th July 2022 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13852629)
What makes life easy to kill you just get more people dead

Again simply statements of your opinion without any supporting evidence That don't address anything you quoted.

Again, Japan had such laws and it didn't stop the assassination. Heck, it may have made it easier since they may not have been expecting a firearm.

And once again how do your unarmed police get weapons from people who have them, don't want to give them up and are already willing to break the law?

Sending unarmed individuals against armed ones also makes them getting killed easier

The Man 10th July 2022 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13852760)
I forgot to say, they are the best arm dealers in the world.

You mean like Russia? Responsible for 75% of the worlds arms exports along with the United States, France, Germany, and China.

Gaetan 18th July 2022 06:37 PM

Biden and the media say he went to Saudi Arabia to reprimand the dictator for killing an American journalist, it's a joke, he went there to sell armored vehicles, rocket launchers and other weapons of mass destruction

theprestige 18th July 2022 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13858429)
Biden and the media say he went to Saudi Arabia to reprimand the dictator for killing an American journalist, it's a joke, he went there to sell armored vehicles, rocket launchers and other weapons of mass destruction

How can you possibly have such a pants on head retarded epistemology? The US doesn't need a presidential visit to sell arms to Saudi Arabia.

arthwollipot 18th July 2022 06:56 PM

Also, minor point here, armoured vehicles and rocket launchers are not weapons of mass destruction.

Gaetan 18th July 2022 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arthwollipot (Post 13858439)
Also, minor point here, armoured vehicles and rocket launchers are not weapons of mass destruction.

if one of these roket explodes in front of 100 people all will die

Gaetan 18th July 2022 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 13858438)
How can you possibly have such a pants on head retarded epistemology? The US doesn't need a presidential visit to sell arms to Saudi Arabia.

If the arm lobbeyists are introduce by the president it is easier to make business

arthwollipot 18th July 2022 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13858473)
if one of these roket explodes in front of 100 people all will die

Yes, but it's not a weapon of mass destruction, which is something that is defined in international law.

Crossbow 19th July 2022 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13858473)
if one of these roket explodes in front of 100 people all will die

And why should you care if these people die or not?

After all, you have been very supportive of the Putin war against Ukraine where at least hundreds of people have been murdered by Russian forces, and yet you continually voice your support of Putin.

The Man 19th July 2022 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13858429)
Biden and the media say he went to Saudi Arabia to reprimand the dictator for killing an American journalist, it's a joke, he went there to sell armored vehicles, rocket launchers and other weapons of mass destruction

Who are Russia selling their share of 75% of the worlds arms exports to?

The Man 19th July 2022 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 13858438)
How can you possibly have such a pants on head retarded epistemology? The US doesn't need a presidential visit to sell arms to Saudi Arabia.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13858475)
If the arm lobbeyists are introduce by the president it is easier to make business

Evidently thinking it's a matter of introductions, to lobbyists no less, is how such a pantaloon inversion transpires.

Gaetan 19th July 2022 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crossbow (Post 13858691)
And why should you care if these people die or not?

After all, you have been very supportive of the Putin war against Ukraine where at least hundreds of people have been murdered by Russian forces, and yet you continually voice your support of Putin.

I don't support the war in Ukraine but i don't blame the Russian for that but the true responsible: Zelinski, the cia and NATO leaders. The russian should give all their weapons to Biden but he is going to sell it.

Craig4 21st July 2022 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13859484)
I don't support the war in Ukraine but i don't blame the Russian for that but the true responsible: Zelinski, the cia and NATO leaders. The russian should give all their weapons to Biden but he is going to sell it.

As far as I know, we haven't sold anything to Ukraine. We've given the weapons to Ukraine as have the NATO partners and other allies. Now the US and the UK are giving highly advanced rocket systems to Ukraine which they appear to be using to devastating effect. If it makes you feel any better, the Ukrainians are using the rockets we gave them on a lot of weapons depots. The Russians are losing tons upon tons of weapons and ammunition. That should make you happy.

The Man 24th July 2022 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13859484)
I don't support the war in Ukraine but i don't blame the Russian for that but the true responsible: Zelinski, the cia and NATO leaders. The russian should give all their weapons to Biden but he is going to sell it.

The Russians already sell them themselves. So you would blame Biden for selling the weapons you'd like the Russians to give to him yet evidently don't blame them for already selling them themselves?!?!

Cainkane1 24th July 2022 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13762419)
I propose that all countries get rid of weapons including those that we buy in stores, agree or disagree? What interest to invade a country which is not armed, one can have their resources by the trade. If the Ukrainians were not posing a threat to Russia with arms, they would not have been invaded. Let's start here in Canada by getting rid of all our guns. We will end up destroying ourselves if this continues, we are in 2022 we can get everything by trade, no need to want to steal from others as was the case in the past. Weapons no longer have a purpose and never have had a purpose.

This is an old cliche but what will stop the criminal element from getting firearms? Drugs are illegal in America but that doesn't mean that drugs are had to get. If you have money you can buy pretty much anything you want. Anti gun laws disarm law abiding citizens and give the criminal element helpless unarmed citizens to rob, violate and or murder with the victim having no chance to defend themselves.

Gaetan 24th July 2022 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cainkane1 (Post 13862390)
This is an old cliche but what will stop the criminal element from getting firearms? Drugs are illegal in America but that doesn't mean that drugs are had to get. If you have money you can buy pretty much anything you want. Anti gun laws disarm law abiding citizens and give the criminal element helpless unarmed citizens to rob, violate and or murder with the victim having no chance to defend themselves.

If it is easy for good people to get guns it is also easy for bad people and you have more chance to be killed if you try to defend yourself with a gun than if you have nothing because the robber could think that if you are armed you would be a threat for him and kill you,, just think, how many honest citizen were killed when the police thought you would pull a gun when giving your driving permit, more guns more innocent victimes.

arthwollipot 24th July 2022 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13862648)
If it is easy for good people to get guns it is also easy for bad people and you have more chance to be killed if you try to defend yourself with a gun than if you have nothing because the robber could think that if you are armed you would be a threat for him and kill you,, just think, how many honest citizen were killed when the police thought you would pull a gun when giving your driving permit, more guns more innocent victimes.

Exactly! So, how do you propose we deal with this problem?

Crossbow 25th July 2022 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13859484)
I don't support the war in Ukraine but i don't blame the Russian for that but the true responsible: Zelinski, the cia and NATO leaders. The russian should give all their weapons to Biden but he is going to sell it.

Well that sure is odd.

Now you say that you do not support the war in Ukraine, and that Russia should give all of its weapons to the USA.

And yet, throughout the Ukraine War you have been very supportive of Putin and at the same time you are very critical of Biden and Ukraine.

So if you can ever figure out just what it is that you are trying to say, then please let the rest of us know.

Thanks much.

Gaetan 26th July 2022 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arthwollipot (Post 13862701)
Exactly! So, how do you propose we deal with this problem?

Pass a law that makes the possession and manufacture of firearms illegal and pass a resolution at the United Nations to get rid of weapons in order to live in safety

Gaetan 26th July 2022 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crossbow (Post 13862820)
Well that sure is odd.

Now you say that you do not support the war in Ukraine, and that Russia should give all of its weapons to the USA.

And yet, throughout the Ukraine War you have been very supportive of Putin and at the same time you are very critical of Biden and Ukraine.

So if you can ever figure out just what it is that you are trying to say, then please let the rest of us know.

Thanks much.

It is clear that since the end of the USSR, NATO has been trying to strengthen their alliance by bringing in other countries, which makes Russia vulnerable in the event of war and it is normal for them to object. The Atlantic alliance is not the good Lord they are leaders just as corrupt as each other by money

Dave Rogers 26th July 2022 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13863919)
Pass a law that makes the possession and manufacture of firearms illegal and pass a resolution at the United Nations to get rid of weapons in order to live in safety

Guess which permanent member of the Security Council would be the first to veto it. Yes, it's your beloved genocidal aggressors, Russia.

Dave

The Don 26th July 2022 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13863919)
Pass a law that makes the possession and manufacture of firearms illegal and pass a resolution at the United Nations to get rid of weapons in order to live in safety

How would the law be enforced ?

Would those enforcing it be armed ?

If not, they how would they compel large groups of armed people (including national armies) to give up their weapons ?

The Man 26th July 2022 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13863919)
Pass a law that makes the possession and manufacture of firearms illegal and pass a resolution at the United Nations to get rid of weapons in order to live in safety

People already disregard such laws. What is a "resolution at the United Nations" going to do when a law can't?

What do you do to or with people that disregard such laws?

What do you do to or with nation states that sign on to such a resolution but then disregard it?

The Man 26th July 2022 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13863928)
It is clear that since the end of the USSR, NATO has been trying to strengthen their alliance by bringing in other countries, which makes Russia vulnerable in the event of war and it is normal for them to object. The Atlantic alliance is not the good Lord they are leaders just as corrupt as each other by money

"vulnerable in the event of war"?!? They started a war, so clearly they didn't perceive war as being their vulnerability in that consideration.

"Normal for them to object"?!?! Do you consider invading another country to be merely an 'objection'?

"they are leaders just as corrupt as each other by money", would that include the Russian leaders. How much more corrupt must they be for starting a war with a country they had already agreed to respect the sovereignty of?

lobosrul5 26th July 2022 12:22 PM

Going all the way back to the original post:

What interest to invade a country which is not armed, one can have their resources by the trade.

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Why would a country being disarmed be a disincentive for an invasion over a country that is armed. Why would you not be able to get resources through trade from an armed nation??? Your statement is in fact a polar opposite to reality.

Also, how do we completely disarm? If missiles, and tanks, and guns are all gone then the country with the biggest population is now at a huge advantage. Do we ban hammers, axes, and kitchen knives?

Gaetan 26th July 2022 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lobosrul5 (Post 13864255)
Going all the way back to the original post:

What interest to invade a country which is not armed, one can have their resources by the trade.

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Why would a country being disarmed be a disincentive for an invasion over a country that is armed. Why would you not be able to get resources through trade from an armed nation??? Your statement is in fact a polar opposite to reality.

Also, how do we completely disarm? If missiles, and tanks, and guns are all gone then the country with the biggest population is now at a huge advantage. Do we ban hammers, axes, and kitchen knives?

When a country need goods or ressources they don't threat them with their weapons they just pay the price on the market.

lobosrul5 26th July 2022 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13864468)
When a country need goods or ressources they don't threat them with their weapons they just pay the price on the market.

Oh right sorry, i forgot, no one in history has ever gone to war to gain resources.

arthwollipot 26th July 2022 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaetan (Post 13863919)
Pass a law that makes the possession and manufacture of firearms illegal and pass a resolution at the United Nations to get rid of weapons in order to live in safety

Sounds easy. You're going to start right away, I assume?


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