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-   -   The behaviour of US police officers (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=323251)

JoeMorgue 22nd October 2020 09:26 AM

Judge drops third-degree murder charge against former officer Derek Chauvin in George Floyd's death, but second-degree murder charge remains.

The Judge's logic in a judicial sense is actually fairly sound, basically that 3rd Degree Murder charges don't apply if you are directing the force at a specific person which Chauvin obviously was doing, but I hope it doesn't make a conviction harder to get.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/22/us/de...ped/index.html

quadraginta 22nd October 2020 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13266408)
Police officer who leaked video of police abuse charged with crime.

Whistleblowers go to jail, abusers stay on the force.

https://twitter.com/SAssadNews/statu...79885566730240

Quote:

Esqueda, 51, blew the whistle on the death of Lurry and had been stripped of his police powers and placed on administrative leave. Joliet police withheld the video of the arrest for five months. He believes the police department was trying to cover up the arrest. “Yes, I do, 100 percent,” Esqueda told Savini this summer. “I did the right thing, I am a good honest cop.”
Good cops don't stay cops for long.


All cops may not be bastards, but the ones that aren't can get in big trouble for it.

bluesjnr 23rd October 2020 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13266408)
Police officer who leaked video of police abuse charged with crime.

Whistleblowers go to jail, abusers stay on the force.

https://twitter.com/SAssadNews/statu...79885566730240



Good cops don't stay cops for long.

The cop in question is not on trial here, it's the US judicial system that's in the dock.

quadraginta 23rd October 2020 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluesjnr (Post 13267663)
The cop in question is not on trial here, it's the US judicial system that's in the dock.


I'm sure he'll find that very reassuring while he's sitting in the courtroom.

... at the defendant's table.

Aber 24th October 2020 01:28 AM

For some light relief:
Borat Fooled Rudy, But Not Two Sharp Cops

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documen...ia-cops-714386

bluesjnr 24th October 2020 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quadraginta (Post 13268316)
I'm sure he'll find that very reassuring while he's sitting in the courtroom.

... at the defendant's table.

It must hurt to go to such extremes to, deliberately, miss the point.

Matthew Best 30th October 2020 09:56 AM

I don't know about you lot, but I'm getting fed up with all this relentless negativity about the job the US police do. So instead I'm going to post a positive, heartwarming story. The National Fraternal Order of Police has one all ready:

https://i.imgur.com/3RCulFQ.png

So see if you can pick a hole in that, "skeptics". The police rescued a 2-year-old who was lost and wandering around, barefoot(!), in a riot zone. The only thing they care about is protecting that child!!! I hardly think the National Fraternal Order of Police would make this up!

Do you?

Captain_Swoop 30th October 2020 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Best (Post 13275031)
I don't know about you lot, but I'm getting fed up with all this relentless negativity about the job the US police do. So instead I'm going to post a positive, heartwarming story. The National Fraternal Order of Police has one all ready:

https://i.imgur.com/3RCulFQ.png

So see if you can pick a hole in that, "skeptics". The police rescued a 2-year-old who was lost and wandering around, barefoot(!), in a riot zone. The only thing they care about is protecting that child!!! I hardly think the National Fraternal Order of Police would make this up!

Do you?

Already covered in the Riots thread.

Matthew Best 30th October 2020 10:52 AM

I'm glad the good news is spreading!

bruto 30th October 2020 12:03 PM

Of course there are plenty of instances of good cops doing the right thing. Lots of good cops out there, and if the cops perceive you as being on the right side, there's nothing nicer than a cop. They'll rescue you or protect you, keep you warm in the cruiser till the towtruck comes, and all that stuff. Unfortunately if they perceive you as being on the wrong side, there are few things nastier or more dangerous. Kudos to the cops protecting the little kid. It's what they should do. It's too bad that this story should stand out at all.

Captain_Swoop 30th October 2020 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Best (Post 13275087)
I'm glad the good news is spreading!

As Suburban Turkey posted

Quote:

Fraternal Order of Police, the nation's largest cop group, falsely claimed that Philly cops rescued a child wandering the riots alone and without shoes.

Turns out the kid was taken out of his parent's car by the cops after they smashed out the windows and viciously beat the driver. There's video footage of the cops swarming the car and bashing the driver who doesn't seem to be doing anything aggressive and was likely just unlucky to be in the path of the police riot.

Cops will literally beat you senseless and use your kid for copaganda. They have since deleted this lie after being exposed.

https://twitter.com/RespectableLaw/s...71642201567233
Fraternal Order of Police, the nation's largest cop group, falsely claimed that Philly cops rescued a child wandering the riots alone and without shoes.

Turns out the kid was taken out of his parent's car by the cops after they smashed out the windows and viciously beat the driver. There's video footage of the cops swarming the car and bashing the driver who doesn't seem to be doing anything aggressive and was likely just unlucky to be in the path of the police riot.

Cops will literally beat you senseless and use your kid for copaganda. They have since deleted this lie after being exposed.

https://twitter.com/RespectableLaw/s...71642201567233

Matthew Best 30th October 2020 05:56 PM

The behaviour of US police officers
 
Well, yeah, there’s all that but still - kudos to the cops for protecting the kid, right?

SuburbanTurkey 30th October 2020 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Best (Post 13275485)
Well, yeah, there’s all that but still - kudos to the cops for protecting the kid, right?

The cops beat in the windows of the car and violently clubbed the mother in front of the child. Most children would find this traumatic.

Babbylonian 30th October 2020 06:56 PM

Poor Matthew. It seems like people really want to stomp all over your jokes...maybe because they're too dark?

Matthew Best 30th October 2020 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babbylonian (Post 13275559)
Poor Matthew. It seems like people really want to stomp all over your jokes...maybe because they're too dark?


Could be.

bruto 30th October 2020 07:38 PM

I guess I should have known the back story (or just guessed).

erlando 31st October 2020 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Best (Post 13275031)
I don't know about you lot, but I'm getting fed up with all this relentless negativity about the job the US police do. So instead I'm going to post a positive, heartwarming story. The National Fraternal Order of Police has one all ready:

https://i.imgur.com/3RCulFQ.png

So see if you can pick a hole in that, "skeptics". The police rescued a 2-year-old who was lost and wandering around, barefoot(!), in a riot zone. The only thing they care about is protecting that child!!! I hardly think the National Fraternal Order of Police would make this up!

Do you?

You know you have an image problem when you have to tout basic human decency as a "look what we've done" story.

ETA: And it was all a lie. Imagine that.. (Sorry for not getting the joke)

Dave Rogers 31st October 2020 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erlando (Post 13275823)
You know you have an image problem when you have to tout basic human decency as a "look what we've done" story.

ETA: And it was all a lie. Imagine that.. (Sorry for not getting the joke)

You know you have far more than just an image problem when you have to fake basic human decency as a "look what we've done" story.

Dave

Mumbles 31st October 2020 03:21 PM

So in Greensboro, mixing social and political issues, a minister arranged a "Vote for Change" march to the nearest polling site, including a moment of silence for George Floyd. How did police respond?

Quote:

After the moment of silence concluded, law enforcement told people to clear the road.

Then, deputies and police officers used pepper spray on the crowd and began arresting people. Several children in the crowd were affected by the pepper spray.

Melanie Mitchell said her 5-year-old and 11-year-old daughters were pepper-sprayed just after the moment of silence.

She said Graham police approached the crowd assembled in the street and told them to move onto the sidewalk and soon began spraying pepper spray toward the ground. Mitchell’s 5-year-old took off running, she said. Both kids threw up.
The police say that they had informed the group that they would not be allowed to close the street. Personally, I strongly suspect that this could be easily resolved without blasting everyone nearby with chemical agents, but that's just me.

The Don 2nd November 2020 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mumbles (Post 13276409)
The police say that they had informed the group that they would not be allowed to close the street. Personally, I strongly suspect that this could be easily resolved without blasting everyone nearby with chemical agents, but that's just me.

Well I suppose that the organisers could have tried to ensure that none of the participants on the march were black. :rolleyes:

Darat 2nd November 2020 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mumbles (Post 13276409)
So in Greensboro, mixing social and political issues, a minister arranged a "Vote for Change" march to the nearest polling site, including a moment of silence for George Floyd. How did police respond?



The police say that they had informed the group that they would not be allowed to close the street. Personally, I strongly suspect that this could be easily resolved without blasting everyone nearby with chemical agents, but that's just me.

It's basic SOP for occupying forces, you can't allow any event to escalate.

Aridas 3rd November 2020 07:32 AM

To poke at something not directly done by the Trump administration -

Kentucky state police training quoted Hitler to create ‘ruthless’ warriors

Instructional presentation quotes the Nazi leader on three separate slides, as well as Confederate general Robert E Lee


A spokesperson claims that the materials stopped being used in 2013, as it is, but it is relevant when it comes to matters setting the stage for the current state of affairs.

Darat 3rd November 2020 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aridas (Post 13279241)
To poke at something not directly done by the Trump administration -

Kentucky state police training quoted Hitler to create ‘ruthless’ warriors

Instructional presentation quotes the Nazi leader on three separate slides, as well as Confederate general Robert E Lee


A spokesperson claims that the materials stopped being used in 2013, as it is, but it is relevant when it comes to matters setting the stage for the current state of affairs.

I suppose we should be glad that no one stays in the police force for more than 7 years....

SuburbanTurkey 3rd November 2020 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aridas (Post 13279241)
To poke at something not directly done by the Trump administration -

Kentucky state police training quoted Hitler to create ‘ruthless’ warriors

Instructional presentation quotes the Nazi leader on three separate slides, as well as Confederate general Robert E Lee


A spokesperson claims that the materials stopped being used in 2013, as it is, but it is relevant when it comes to matters setting the stage for the current state of affairs.

Side note, but this reporting comes from high school students. Outstanding work from such young amateur journalists. This is the kind of story a pro would be proud to call their own.

Babbylonian 3rd November 2020 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13279243)
I suppose we should be glad that no one stays in the police force for more than 7 years....

2013 was a different time, when genocidal Nazis and traitorous defenders of slavery were still considered heroes.

Mumbles 5th November 2020 10:21 AM

And on another note, anyone who wants to know what the police have been up to lately can just look here. But the short answer is, they're still doing their damnest to turn protests violent.

ponderingturtle 5th November 2020 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mumbles (Post 13282544)
And on another note, anyone who wants to know what the police have been up to lately can just look here. But the short answer is, they're still doing their damnest to turn protests violent.

Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.

Nessie 5th November 2020 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mumbles (Post 13282544)
And on another note, anyone who wants to know what the police have been up to lately can just look here. But the short answer is, they're still doing their damnest to turn protests violent.

The comment in the tweet about the cops are the ones rioting is so true.

deadrose 5th November 2020 02:18 PM

Yep, had another one here last night too. Headline: Protester in critical condition after arrest outside the East Precinct.

Bonus points to the cops for misgendering protester, too.

ponderingturtle 12th November 2020 09:23 AM

It's totally normal to hide hundreds of thousands of records of your coworkers sexually abusing minor right? Not any kind of odd or inappropriate action there.

https://www.courier-journal.com/stor...ds/6224382002/

"Louisville Metro Police concealed at least 738,000 records documenting the sexual abuse of Explorer Scouts by two officers — then lied to keep the files from the public, records show.

The Courier Journal last year requested all records regarding sexual abuse of minors by two officers in the Explorer Scout program for youths interested in law enforcement careers."

Darat 12th November 2020 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle (Post 13292337)
It's totally normal to hide hundreds of thousands of records of your coworkers sexually abusing minor right? Not any kind of odd or inappropriate action there.

https://www.courier-journal.com/stor...ds/6224382002/

"Louisville Metro Police concealed at least 738,000 records documenting the sexual abuse of Explorer Scouts by two officers — then lied to keep the files from the public, records show.

The Courier Journal last year requested all records regarding sexual abuse of minors by two officers in the Explorer Scout program for youths interested in law enforcement careers."

Par for the course. :(

sphenisc 12th November 2020 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle (Post 13292337)
It's totally normal to hide hundreds of thousands of records of your coworkers sexually abusing minor right? Not any kind of odd or inappropriate action there.

https://www.courier-journal.com/stor...ds/6224382002/

"Louisville Metro Police concealed at least 738,000 records documenting the sexual abuse of Explorer Scouts by two officers — then lied to keep the files from the public, records show.

The Courier Journal last year requested all records regarding sexual abuse of minors by two officers in the Explorer Scout program for youths interested in law enforcement careers."

That's 25 records a day, every day, each, for 40 years. Surely some mistake?

erlando 12th November 2020 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sphenisc (Post 13292426)
That's 25 records a day, every day, each, for 40 years. Surely some mistake?

Especially when the case only concerns two officers (two officers is two too many). I'm not questioning that records were deleted but I'm highly skeptical of the number of records deleted.

Darat 13th November 2020 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sphenisc (Post 13292426)
That's 25 records a day, every day, each, for 40 years. Surely some mistake?

Quote:

Originally Posted by erlando (Post 13293197)
Especially when the case only concerns two officers (two officers is two too many). I'm not questioning that records were deleted but I'm highly skeptical of the number of records deleted.

They are documents related to the investigation of the two officers not records of complaints over the years, so it’s not like there were 25 complaints made every day.

I thought at first it could have been the entirety of the police records for the time period and the actual documents/reports about the investigation would be a small subset within that but the article makes it clear this isn’t the case.

The figures do seem very high, almost 10,000 documents, I suppose it could be an artefact of how their system works. Look at court transcripts in which every line in the transcript will be numbered, if their system did a similar thing for each individual line in a report it could be when that data is exported it is done “per line” so you could end up with one page of text being 30 or so individual “records” in a CSV file.

But really the number of records and documents is an irrelevance, it is the destruction and obstruction of the relevant documents and records that is the issue - it would have been equally “as bad” if it was just one record and one document that was deliberately withheld and then deleted.

It really does seem there was a concerted attempt to prevent the lawful release of the documents and records.

erlando 15th November 2020 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13293287)
But really the number of records and documents is an irrelevance, it is the destruction and obstruction of the relevant documents and records that is the issue - it would have been equally “as bad” if it was just one record and one document that was deliberately withheld and then deleted.

It really does seem there was a concerted attempt to prevent the lawful release of the documents and records.

Oh, I agree. It smells really bad.

GodMark2 16th November 2020 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13293287)
The figures do seem very high, almost 10,000 documents, I suppose it could be an artefact of how their system works. Look at court transcripts in which every line in the transcript will be numbered, if their system did a similar thing for each individual line in a report it could be when that data is exported it is done “per line” so you could end up with one page of text being 30 or so individual “records” in a CSV file.

It could also include a large number of automatically created 'documents', like surveillance tapes or entry ID scans for different buildings. Or, it could include usually normal, but meaningful in this case, documents like vehicle check-outs, call logs, or time record sheets. Some days at work, I probably create over 50 such 'documents' when I travel to secure customer locations, and some days I visit multiple customers. (Rather, I used to, before the world went virtual)

lomiller 16th November 2020 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GodMark2 (Post 13296758)
It could also include a large number of automatically created 'documents', like surveillance tapes or entry ID scans for different buildings. Or, it could include usually normal, but meaningful in this case, documents like vehicle check-outs, call logs, or time record sheets. Some days at work, I probably create over 50 such 'documents' when I travel to secure customer locations, and some days I visit multiple customers. (Rather, I used to, before the world went virtual)

There is also the possibility that this includes potential evidence. Eg discarding an file cabinet so the documents inside could not be reviewed to see if they contained any relevant evidence.

ponderingturtle 16th November 2020 01:47 PM

" The Faulkner County Sheriff’s Office is conducting an internal investigation after an investigator shot and killed a child’s dog. According to a spokesperson, Investigator James Freeman was in Greenbrier for a sex offender compliance check but went to the wrong home."

https://katv.com/news/local/faulkner...to-wrong-house

Darat 16th November 2020 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle (Post 13296933)
" The Faulkner County Sheriff’s Office is conducting an internal investigation after an investigator shot and killed a child’s dog. According to a spokesperson, Investigator James Freeman was in Greenbrier for a sex offender compliance check but went to the wrong home."

https://katv.com/news/local/faulkner...to-wrong-house

What a hero, dogs are notorious for attacking children, he bravely risked his own life to protect the child from the dog!

SuburbanTurkey 16th November 2020 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13296944)
What a hero, dogs are notorious for attacking children, he bravely risked his own life to protect the child from the dog!

Cops are shooting so many dogs that there are now multiple incidents of cops accidentally shooting people while trying to shoot dogs.

Like how this cop shot and killed a sleeping homeless woman while trying to kill a dog:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...s-b472257.html

or this cop that was covered under qualified immunity after he shot a 10 year old child in the leg while trying to kill a dog:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicksib...h=7d3223f33987

Or two different occasions where a cop shot themselves trying to shoot a dog

https://www.local10.com/news/local/2...y-shoots-self/

https://www.reshareworthy.com/cop-ac...-to-shoot-dog/

Maybe one day cops will learn how to interact with strange dogs without shooting everyone within line of sight. Not sure how mail carriers or kids on bikes manage it.


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