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-   -   Bill Barr and his October Surprise (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=346780)

varwoche 20th September 2020 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggurat (Post 13227217)
What intrusion on civil liberties has been greater than the lockdown?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto (Post 13227224)
Universal draft? You don't have to stay home instead you are forcefully rounded up and sent off somewhere to be maimed or killed.

I'm not a fan of when posters fail to own their bull ****.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Zig
Good point. I hadn't considered that. I got wrapped up in right wing talking points and lost perspective. There wasn't even a federal lockdown! That shows just how far off the mark I was. Thanks Gord!


Mader Levap 20th September 2020 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by varwoche (Post 13229971)
I'm not a fan of when posters fail to own their bull ****.

I don't think you can expect that from rethuglicans. If they were capable of things like admitting to mistake (like saying utterly silly thing out of touch with reality), they wouldn't be rethuglicans in first place.

Safe-Keeper 20th September 2020 01:14 PM

First "greater intrusion on civil liberties" I can think of is police telling citizens to stay home because there are protests in the city, and firing paint bullets on families legally standing in the doorways of their own homes. Policemen beating up peaceful protesters. Policemen using tear gas to clear a crowd for a president's photo op. The countless (100+) attacks on journalists just doing their jobs, some of whom have sustained lasting injuries. The incarceration and abuse, including ******* sterilisation, and separation of families for just seeking asylum. Widespread voting suppression in Democrat-leaning areas. The widespread corruption in the police force and justice system. The more things I list, the more things I can think of.

But it's being asked to wear a mask and stay home to save lives during a ******* pandemic that's upsetting. Why should Ziggurat and the others care what happens when their political opponents demonstrate, and the MSM reports on the protests? Why should they care what happens to foreigners or brown people?

If you're going to widen it to all of American history, it becomes even more ridiculous. The incarceration of all Americans with Japanese descent during WWII? Institutionalised slavery (as was mentioned)? The Bush regime punishing dissenters by putting them on no-fly lists? The kidnapping and torture of people during the same regime? The treatment of Indians, and African-Americans throughout US history?

Heck, I'd even say that large-scale evacuations are a pretty big infringement on civil liberties. A perfectly justified one in most cases, but still a dramatic thing to be asked to do, whether it's due to weather phenomenon, 9/11, or other threats.

Sort of OT, but important:
A significant amount of trumpkins have voted for the Leopards Eating Peoples' Faces Party, imagining that the leopards are only ever going to eat their opponents' faces. They won't.

theprestige 20th September 2020 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elemental (Post 13228049)
From what I understand he has never tried a case at all.

Neither has Barack Obama. Somehow he's one of the nation's top jurists, tho.

Stacyhs 20th September 2020 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 13230414)
Neither has Barack Obama. Somehow he's one of the nation's top jurists, tho.

Has Barack Obama ever been appointed to a "top jurist" position? Or nominated to one?

Safe-Keeper 20th September 2020 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13230425)
Has Barack Obama ever been appointed to a "top jurist" position? Or nominated to one?

Is there any question or comment that can't be answered with "butbutobama" :rolleyes: ? Either they really can't stand the guy, or they think we all adore him to death and hold him up as some sort of saintly idol of how a president should behave. Or both.

Bob001 20th September 2020 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 13230414)
Neither has Barack Obama. Somehow he's one of the nation's top jurists, tho.


What do you think "jurist" means? Obama is a Constitutional law scholar who taught at Harvard Law. That makes him a jurist.
Quote:

A jurist is a person with expert knowledge of law; someone who studies, analyses and comments on law.[
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jurist

Somebody who hears traffic cases in municipal court is a judge, but that doesn't make him a jurist. A city prosecutor who puts street criminals in jail tries cases, but that doesn't make him a jurist either.

Roger Ramjets 20th September 2020 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 13230414)
Neither has Barack Obama. Somehow he's one of the nation's top jurists, tho.

Deplorable.

Norman Alexander 20th September 2020 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 13230414)
Neither has Barack Obama. Somehow he's one of the nation's top jurists, tho.

Incorrect, Obama HAS tried cases. Granted, not many.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-...al6-story.html

Hlafordlaes 21st September 2020 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets (Post 13230648)
Deplorable.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

AnonyMoose 21st September 2020 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggurat (Post 13227217)
Is he wrong? What intrusion on civil liberties has been greater than the lockdown?

Well trolled...

Toss out the bait, then sit back and enjoy the show. "Triggering liberals" and all that.

Well trolled indeed.

The Orange One has trained his minions well.... although it's such a shame how he's turned otherwise fairly intelligent people (or so we thought) into his servitude pack of drooling lumpens.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...62fdf206a5.gif

JoeMorgue 21st September 2020 07:03 AM

So yet again we're pinning all our hopes on some new, future scandal/drama that will finally break Trump's completely steady approval rating even though all the previous scandals/drama didn't?

Yet another "This time will be different and this time we mean it..."

uke2se 21st September 2020 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13231014)
So yet again we're pinning all our hopes on some new, future scandal/drama that will finally break Trump's completely steady approval rating even though all the previous scandals/drama didn't?

Yet another "This time will be different and this time we mean it..."

I think we're pinning our hopes on the polls being correct and that every non-fascist is fired up enough about the danger US democracy is in to go vote.

Segnosaur 21st September 2020 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uke2se (Post 13231015)
I think we're pinning our hopes on the polls being correct and that every non-fascist is fired up enough about the danger US democracy is in to go vote.

Polls that should be noted, have been incredibly static for the past few months, only fluctuating a few percent here and there.

As this thread implies, it is the Republicans who are hoping for something dramatic to cause a change in the status quo (hence the idea that Barr might manufacturer some scandal via the Durham report.)

Sent from my LM-X320 using Tapatalk

lomiller 21st September 2020 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggurat (Post 13227217)
What intrusion on civil liberties has been greater than the lockdown?

Since when have actions that endanger others been protected civil liberties? You may as well be trying to argue that every law is an intrusion of civil liberties, because all of them restrict some people from taking some action.

Laws preventing you from harming or endangering others is where civil liberties come from in the first place, without such laws there is no freedom for the vast majority of the population.

theprestige 21st September 2020 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob001 (Post 13230645)
What do you think "jurist" means? Obama is a Constitutional law scholar who taught at Harvard Law. That makes him a jurist.

Yep. Not complaining about Obama's status as a jurist, even a highly regarded jurist.

Same with Barr. I'm not sure having tried cases is an important metric - or at least the only possible important metric - here.

Anyway, it turns out that Barack Obama has tried a case or two:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander (Post 13230724)
Incorrect, Obama HAS tried cases. Granted, not many.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-...al6-story.html

Thank you for the correction.

Suddenly 21st September 2020 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 13231112)

Same with Barr. I'm not sure having tried cases is an important metric - or at least the only possible important metric - here.

Arguing an appeal would be way more relevant as to being a jurist. If by that we mean having an understanding of the theoretical underpinnings of the law.

Trying a case is like being an athlete. Appeals are like being a coach. Some very good trial lawyers are complete muppets when it comes to any sort of deep legal analysis because it so rarely comes up.

Donal 21st September 2020 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnonyMoose (Post 13231003)
Well trolled...

Toss out the bait, then sit back and enjoy the show. "Triggering liberals" and all that.

Well trolled indeed.

The Orange One has trained his minions well.... although it's such a shame how he's turned otherwise fairly intelligent people (or so we thought) into his servitude pack of drooling lumpens.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...62fdf206a5.gif

It would help if people stopped taking the bait.

Segnosaur 24th September 2020 09:25 PM

Related to Barr and his attempts to dig up (imaginary) dirt...

From: The Hill
The Department of Justice’s probe into the origins of the Russia investigation is also looking into how the FBI handled allegations of political corruption at the Clinton Foundation, sources told The New York Times.

I guess its not too suprising... When you run into so many dry wells as the republicans in their quest to find dirt on the Democrats, they go to their default "but Clinton..." (even though that will likely be just as fruitless)

The Great Zaganza 24th September 2020 09:31 PM

I see Barr declare certain Blue Cities in Red States as "anarchist jurisdictions" and give local election officials the backing to discount votes from them.

jerrywayne 14th October 2020 03:19 AM

Barr's dead end.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...?ocid=msedgdhp

The Don 14th October 2020 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerrywayne (Post 13257021)

The report concludes that there was no substantive wrongdoing but doubtless President Trump and his cronies will insist that this is clear evidence of the greatest political conspiracy of all time. :rolleyes:

edited to add....

He could still release a heavily edited version of the report which gives the impression that there was wrongdoing but that the Deep State were able to cover it up successfully

jerrywayne 14th October 2020 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13257026)
The report concludes that there was no substantive wrongdoing but doubtless President Trump and his cronies will insist that this is clear evidence of the greatest political conspiracy of all time. :rolleyes:

edited to add....

He could still release a heavily edited version of the report which gives the impression that there was wrongdoing but that the Deep State were able to cover it up successfully

Wonder how Hannity and Fox will scheme this dud.

dasmiller 14th October 2020 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerrywayne (Post 13257021)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerrywayne (Post 13257049)
Wonder how Hannity and Fox will scheme this dud.

Easy peasy. From the article you linked:

Quote:

Bash and his team reviewed unmasking practices as well as whether officials at the time improperly leaked information to reporters. Bash reportedly turned over his findings to Barr, whose office chose not to publicly release them. The findings did not rise to the allegations Trump and his allies have made about wrongdoing, according to the report.
. . . etc

Ziggurat 14th October 2020 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes (Post 13228618)
Neolithic Revolution Governance is based on accepting community over tribal strife and warfare. Results in, gee, civilization. The Encyclopedia Britannica is full of discussion of all those things one can learn when civilized. Recommended.

What greater willful misunderstanding of freedom than that of the savage who cannot accept rational behavior as a restraint to enable survival of the community he benefits from?

Please, don't make it so easy.

Huh. I had no idea that was part of American history. Learn something new every day.

Craig4 14th October 2020 06:51 AM

I think Barr's October surprise will be when he gets a smack-down from a judge for trying to enforce a private NDA signed by an aid to the FLOTUS. I don't expect this ruling to be kind to Barr or the person who hold his leash.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/13/polit...ump/index.html

Trebuchet 14th October 2020 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig4 (Post 13257217)
I think Barr's October surprise will be when he gets a smack-down from a judge for trying to enforce a private NDA signed by an aid to the FLOTUS. I don't expect this ruling to be kind to Barr or the person who hold his leash.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/13/polit...ump/index.html

WTF is the justice department doing in a civil matter? Oh, wait, I forgot, Barr's job is to be Trump's personal lawyer.

timhau 14th October 2020 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trebuchet (Post 13257302)
WTF is the justice department doing in a civil matter? Oh, wait, I forgot, Barr's job is to be Trump's personal lawyer.

Is he like a public defender for Presidents who are too cheap to pay their legal bills?

SuburbanTurkey 14th October 2020 08:15 AM

Bill Barr's October surprise may just be surviving covid. Has he made any public appearances since his exposure to the super spreader pod in the White House?

The Great Zaganza 14th October 2020 08:59 AM

My sauces inside the Trump Campaign have told me that the October Surprise will be a calendar featuring full-nudes of Trump and his cronies.

The Don 14th October 2020 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza (Post 13257404)
My sauces inside the Trump Campaign have told me that the October Surprise will be a calendar featuring full-nudes of Trump and his cronies.

Stoppit ! :mad:

Some of us are planning to eat at some point in the future.

portlandatheist 14th October 2020 10:20 AM

vaporware. As expected. I'm curious about how the spygate/Qanon types are going to react to this news.

Stacyhs 14th October 2020 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13257026)
The report concludes that there was no substantive wrongdoing but doubtless President Trump and his cronies will insist that this is clear evidence of the greatest political conspiracy of all time. :rolleyes:

edited to add....

He could still release a heavily edited version of the report which gives the impression that there was wrongdoing but that the Deep State were able to cover it up successfully

No "substantive wrongdoing"? But how can that be? According to Dear Leader:

Quote:

"It was the greatest political crime in the history of our country. If I were a Democrat instead of a Republican, I think everybody would have been in jail a long time ago, and I'm talking with 50-year sentences. It is a disgrace what's happened. This is the greatest political scam, hoax in the history of our country."

Babbylonian 14th October 2020 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by portlandatheist (Post 13257472)
vaporware. As expected. I'm curious about how the spygate/Qanon types are going to react to this news.

By claiming the report says exactly the opposite of what it says and then claiming the deep state win is only temporary.

Mike! 14th October 2020 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza (Post 13257404)
My sauces inside the Trump Campaign have told me that the October Surprise will be a calendar featuring full-nudes of Trump and his cronies.

You didn't have to go there.

I am curious though, were they barbeque, ranch, or sweet 'n' sour sauces?

JoeMorgue 14th October 2020 12:44 PM

Look for a "bombshell" (cough cough) smear attack on Hunter Biden in the next week or so as Trump's Hail Mary. FoxNews is salivating over a story about Giuliani's laywers having "dirt" on him and pushing it hard to their viewership.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hun...d-drive-laptop

Stacyhs 14th October 2020 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13257628)
Look for a "bombshell" (cough cough) smear attack on Hunter Biden in the next week or so as Trump's Hail Mary. FoxNews is salivating over a story about Giuliani's laywers having "dirt" on him and pushing it hard to their viewership.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hun...d-drive-laptop

Bad link

Norman Alexander 14th October 2020 01:34 PM

Why do I get an impression that Trump is the world's biggest "Karen"?

eeyore1954 14th October 2020 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13257628)
Look for a "bombshell" (cough cough) smear attack on Hunter Biden in the next week or so as Trump's Hail Mary. FoxNews is salivating over a story about Giuliani's laywers having "dirt" on him and pushing it hard to their viewership.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hun...d-drive-laptop

Did they find the dirt next to the WMDs in Iraq or in Al Capone's Vault or in Rachel Maddow's Tax Reveal?

Stacyhs 14th October 2020 01:42 PM

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hun...d-drive-laptop
404 page for me

JoeMorgue 14th October 2020 02:43 PM

Updated Link:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hun...sing-positions

Babbylonian 14th October 2020 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13257730)

I got a popup saying that if I liked their coverage I should disable my adblocker. Haha, no and no. I'm not a big fan of breathlessly reporting stories that are completely evidence-free and essentially repeating nonsense from their sister rag, The New York Post.

"Hey, there's this broken laptop and somebody says there's a ton of incriminating stuff on it...but nobody's actually seen this incriminating stuff...but WOW!"

Stacyhs 14th October 2020 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13257730)

Uh...yeah. Sounds like .....
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...7732a8b1ff.jpg

varwoche 14th October 2020 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babbylonian (Post 13257734)
I got a popup saying that if I liked their coverage I should disable my adblocker. Haha, no and no. I'm not a big fan of breathlessly reporting stories that are completely evidence-free and essentially repeating nonsense from their sister rag, The New York Post.

"Hey, there's this broken laptop and somebody says there's a ton of incriminating stuff on it...but nobody's actually seen this incriminating stuff...but WOW!"

Know thy enemy.

I wouldn't disable either though.

Babbylonian 14th October 2020 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by varwoche (Post 13257740)
Know thy enemy.

I wouldn't disable either though.

Hey, that's why I clicked. It's impossible to counter fake news without knowing what the fake news is. :)

dudalb 14th October 2020 03:26 PM

SO the great Obama conspiracy theory turns out to be crap. What a suprise.

Armitage72 14th October 2020 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babbylonian (Post 13257734)
I got a popup saying that if I liked their coverage I should disable my adblocker. Haha, no and no. I'm not a big fan of breathlessly reporting stories that are completely evidence-free and essentially repeating nonsense from their sister rag, The New York Post.

"Hey, there's this broken laptop and somebody says there's a ton of incriminating stuff on it...but nobody's actually seen this incriminating stuff...but WOW!"


Journalist Judd Legum did an analysis of the NY Post story on his Twitter account.

I was going to copy and paste the text for people who can't access Twitter here, but it's a lot longer than I initially thought it was.

It turns out that the whole "scandal" is based (again) on the completely false idea that Joe Biden was trying to stop the investigation of Bursima.


Quote:

Pretending, for a moment, that everything in the story is true (very doubtful) it is totally inconsequential.

Supposedly one "email" recovered on the laptop "proves" that Hunter once introduced a Bursima exec to his father.

This is a scandal? There is no word on the length of the meeting or what was discussed.

The New York Post says its significant because Biden then called for the ouster of the Ukrainian prosecutor investigating Bursima.

FALSE

The prosecutor was not investigating Bursima

The prosecutor was corrupt, which is why the entire international community was calling for his ouster.

Replacing the corrupt prosecutor brought more scrutiny on Bursima, not less

Elagabalus 14th October 2020 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 13257730)


Giuliani's lawyer says he has hard drive with Hunter Biden texts, emails, videos of 'compromising positions' (fox news)


Compromising positions and the ol' dog ate my harddrive trick.

Skeptic Ginger 14th October 2020 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13257487)
No "substantive wrongdoing"? But how can that be? According to Dear Leader:

Notice the sleazy use of language, "No "substantive wrongdoing", instead of saying there wasn't any evidence of wrongdoing?

Is Barr trying to discredit Biden and/or please der Führer, afraid to tell him Obama did no wrong?

What was the language they tried to use to claim Trump's campaign cronies weren't colluding with Russia?

Stacyhs 14th October 2020 03:38 PM

Giuliani is a disgrace. How far he has fallen and he has done it to himself.


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