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-   -   ISIS teenager wants to come home (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=334783)

angrysoba 21st February 2019 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cullennz (Post 12608512)
Now Holland have said take a jump to her.

She might be living next door to one of the poms on here in no time....

Sorry shouldn't laugh, lol

Yep, if those poms live in prison.

(Cue: "On what charge?!?!?!?")

Strawberry 21st February 2019 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cullennz (Post 12608512)
Now Holland have said take a jump to her.

She might be living next door to one of the poms on here in no time....

Sorry shouldn't laugh, lol

At least I can be sure she won't ever be living next door to me. An unexpected benefit of life in Northern Ireland, no jihadis.

cullennz 21st February 2019 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strawberry (Post 12608702)
At least I can be sure she won't ever be living next door to me. An unexpected benefit of life in Northern Ireland, no jihadis.

There is quite a funny tweet I saw on her, but I can't post it as some one may find it offensive.

Strawberry 21st February 2019 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cullennz (Post 12608707)
There is quite a funny tweet I saw on her, but I can't post it as some one may find it offensive.

Oh go on! You could put it in spoiler tags with a potentially offensive warning for the snowflakes.

theprestige 21st February 2019 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strawberry (Post 12608702)
At least I can be sure she won't ever be living next door to me. An unexpected benefit of life in Northern Ireland, no jihadis.

I don't know if the irony here was intentional, but it got a chuckle out of me.

angrysoba 21st February 2019 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12608862)
I don't know if the irony here was intentional, but it got a chuckle out of me.

"I think the guy next door to us is a terrorist!"
"Well, durrr, we live in Belfast!"
"Oh yeah, never mind."

Strawberry 21st February 2019 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12608862)
I don't know if the irony here was intentional, but it got a chuckle out of me.

We're all very peaceful and law abiding these days.

baron 21st February 2019 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strawberry (Post 12608884)
We're all very peaceful and law abiding these days.

Everything's relative I guess.

Gilbert Syndrome 21st February 2019 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanS (Post 12606724)
The action (travelling to Syria to join IS in the middle of a deadly war) seems extreme to us ("daft"). But it clearly does not seem at all "daft" to many young impressionable Muslims all across Europe (more have travelled from France and Germany than from the UK).

The reason why it does not seem to be extreme or crazy to them, is because they believe that God ("Allah") is very strongly on the side of IS and not at all on the side of anyone who opposes what groups like IS are trying to achieve ... i.e. what they would call "pure religious states free from the crude sexuality & debauchery of the west (they're extremely concerned, outraged, about that, apparently) and free from all manner of un-Godly behaviour" etc.).

They believe that the holy book has given them the unarguable word of God himself commanding them to play their part in a physical jihad (i.e. an all-out war) against all those who oppose Islam.

Like all the thousands of others, Shamima Begum seems to have believed that her most honest obedience to God was to help IS in whatever way she could.

If you are totally immersed in that religious Islamic belief, then it's not “daft” at all to join IS and to give your life for God. In fact it's the only honest godly choice. They really do believe that.

The point I was making is that a lot of people are treating it like she was just an average teenager doing something silly. But she didn't, unless you also consider the Bulger killers to be generally innocent kids who did something bad out of sheer naive childishness. She's clearly unhinged, you'd have to be to want to kill kids, or similarly, to join a faction that promotes death.

IMO, she's a worthless piece of crap who was apparently clear-headed enough to consider her options and choose the most warped path she could possibly take. Couple that with her lack of remorse and her outright laughable attempt at justifying the Manchester attack and you've got a **** stain that is better to be washed out of the underpants of our country.

She can stay in those badlands that she found so romantic a few years ago, and she can enjoy the bed she's made with whatever cretinous rat she let impregnate her.

Gilbert Syndrome 21st February 2019 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanS (Post 12606730)
This evenings news is (BBC) that Shamima Begum's lawyer has just confirmed that today her parents received a letter from the UK Home Office confirming that Shamima is to be stripped of her British Citizenship -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47299907

I'll grab my tiny violin...

IanS 22nd February 2019 07:06 AM

Just in the interests of providing actual facts re. this case - here is an interesting statistic on the number of times the UK government has used the 1981 law allowing citizens such as Shamima Begum to be stripped of their British nationality -

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8788301.html

… to quote the relevant bit -


" The government’s use of controversial powers to remove British citizenship has soared by more than 600 per cent in a year.

Shamima Begum is one of more than 150 people subjected to the measure for the “public good” since 2010.


The removal of citizenship means the 19-year-old has no right to enter the UK or gain a British passport, and cannot request assistance to leave the Syrian camp where she is currently detained with her newborn son.

Ms Begum’s family are to launch a legal challenge, and their lawyer said the teenager, who could have automatic Bangladeshi citizenship through her mother, was born in the UK and had never been to Bangladesh or possessed a Bangladeshi passport.

Official statistics show citizenship deprivations were used only a handful of times a year, until they rocketed from 14 people in 2016 to 104 in 2017.

The Home Office declined to give a reason for the dramatic increase, and said it could not provide a breakdown of how many*Isis*members were involved or the justification for each case."

Darat 22nd February 2019 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanS (Post 12610366)
Just in the interests of providing actual facts re. this case - here is an interesting statistic on the number of times the UK government has used the 1981 law allowing citizens such as Shamima Begum to be stripped of their British nationality -

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8788301.html

… to quote the relevant bit -


" The government’s use of controversial powers to remove British citizenship has soared by more than 600 per cent in a year.

Shamima Begum is one of more than 150 people subjected to the measure for the “public good” since 2010.


The removal of citizenship means the 19-year-old has no right to enter the UK or gain a British passport, and cannot request assistance to leave the Syrian camp where she is currently detained with her newborn son.

Ms Begum’s family are to launch a legal challenge, and their lawyer said the teenager, who could have automatic Bangladeshi citizenship through her mother, was born in the UK and had never been to Bangladesh or possessed a Bangladeshi passport.

Official statistics show citizenship deprivations were used only a handful of times a year, until they rocketed from 14 people in 2016 to 104 in 2017.

The Home Office declined to give a reason for the dramatic increase, and said it could not provide a breakdown of how many*Isis*members were involved or the justification for each case."

Given we know there was an increase in people going to join ISIS from the UK I'm not surprised if uses of the sanction also increased once ISIS was decimated.

baron 22nd February 2019 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanS (Post 12610366)
The Home Office declined to give a reason for the dramatic increase

I would have thought that was obvious. We've already got a hundred times more terrorist threats over here than we can comfortably deal with so what option do we have?

God help us if a Corbyn government gets in. It would be carnage.

Quote:

"She obviously has, in my view, a right to return to Britain.

"On that return she must obviously face a lot of questions about everything she has done and at that point any action may or may not be taken.

"But I think the idea of stripping somebody of their citizenship when they were born in Britain is a very extreme manoeuvre indeed.
As long as she gets her vote in before she disappears into that tube station with her rucksack.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47319763

KDLarsen 23rd February 2019 04:13 AM

And another 'You know, as much as I approve IS and like what they are/were doing, at heart I'm very much a British person. Now please let me come back'-story:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-uk-from-syria

baron 23rd February 2019 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KDLarsen (Post 12611604)
And another 'You know, as much as I approve IS and like what they are/were doing, at heart I'm very much a British person. Now please let me come back'-story:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-uk-from-syria

I'm sure Corbyn will campaign for him too.

SusanB-M1 23rd February 2019 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer (Post 12603853)
I think I read somewhere that he was alive but had been captured and was in a holding camp.

Yes, I also have since heard that.
In all the items of news I have heard, there is a constant failure to point out that Britain is not going to send people into the camp to fetch her out. Any return will have to be via her getting to an Embassy somewhere.

SuburbanTurkey 25th February 2019 08:57 AM

Is Iraq not interested in prosecuting these terrorists as criminals? I know Syria is in a state of lawlessness, but seems that Iraq would be interested in apprehending these people.

For all the harm that ISIS has caused the West, the primary victims of ISIS is other middle easterners that happen to be in or nearby ISIS territory. Seems that they would want the first pass of justice for these fleeing fighters and their enablers.

Segnosaur 25th February 2019 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 12613556)
Is Iraq not interested in prosecuting these terrorists as criminals? I know Syria is in a state of lawlessness, but seems that Iraq would be interested in apprehending these people.

Would they want to? I know they'd want to make sure they don't get attacked again, but holding potentially hundreds of former ISIS minions in jail would be a bit of an expense. Plus, it may actually make them LESS safe (since it would give any free ISIS people a reason to attack Iraq, instead of targeting western countries.)

SuburbanTurkey 25th February 2019 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segnosaur (Post 12613772)
Would they want to? I know they'd want to make sure they don't get attacked again, but holding potentially hundreds of former ISIS minions in jail would be a bit of an expense. Plus, it may actually make them LESS safe (since it would give any free ISIS people a reason to attack Iraq, instead of targeting western countries.)

Yes, I suppose the scale of such an endeavor would be more negative than positive. Wouldn't many of these fighters be eligible for a one way trip to the gallows? Even if you give these folks the benefit of being soldiers, rather than just murderers, many have committed war crimes. Seems execution would be on the table.

Then again, allowing these soldiers to surrender and run off to refugee camps might help in breaking the will of those still fighting.

Vixen 3rd March 2019 08:27 AM

So now Shamima Begum's 'husband' wants her and him to live in the Netherlands. Suddenly the western style of life appeals.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47431249

Quote:

The Dutch husband of Shamima Begum, who joined the Islamic State group in Syria in 2015 aged 15, has said he wants her to return to the Netherlands with him.

Yago Riedijk and Ms Begum married days after she arrived inside IS territory.

Speaking to the BBC, he admitted fighting for the group but says he now wants to return home with his wife and their newborn son.

Mr Riedijk, 27, is being held in a Kurdish detention centre in north-eastern Syria.

He faces a six-year jail term for joining a terror organisation if he returns to the Netherlands.
He just couldn't seem to keep away the smirk dancing around his lips.

bluesjnr 3rd March 2019 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vixen (Post 12620486)
So now Shamima Begum's 'husband' wants her and him to live in the Netherlands. Suddenly the western style of life appeals.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47431249



He just couldn't seem to keep away the smirk dancing around his lips.

I heard it on the radio this morning and wondered aloud "why is this news in the UK?". **** him and his vile wife.


I heard the reporter repeat the line,

Quote:

[he] lost an infant daughter to malnutrition.
Every time I read that or hear it uttered I can't stop myself from thinking how well fed the childs mother and father look. That Begum article doesn't look she's ever missed a meal.

baron 3rd March 2019 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluesjnr (Post 12620587)
I heard it on the radio this morning and wondered aloud "why is this news in the UK?". **** him and his vile wife.


I heard the reporter repeat the line,



Every time I read that or hear it uttered I can't stop myself from thinking how well fed the childs mother and father look. That Begum article doesn't look she's ever missed a meal.

She basically killed both her kids, then she got another worthless specimen to blow his beans up her and wants to use the third child as a passport to come to the UK and get a free house and benefits. What a lovely woman she is.

Vixen 3rd March 2019 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baron (Post 12620589)
She basically killed both her kids, then she got another worthless specimen to blow his beans up her and wants to use the third child as a passport to come to the UK and get a free house and benefits. What a lovely woman she is.

We've only got her word she had two earlier children.

Silly Green Monkey 3rd March 2019 02:51 PM

Now there's the choice of harshly punishing anyone we catch and ensuring the remainder will fight to the death, or making it seem attractive and worthwhile to leave the battle. Hard choices.

Skeptic Ginger 3rd March 2019 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluesjnr (Post 12620587)
...


Every time I read that or hear it uttered I can't stop myself from thinking how well fed the childs mother and father look. That Begum article doesn't look she's ever missed a meal.

I think the same thing seeing some of the near death starving kids in Yemen on the news recently. The mothers are not starving.

Information Analyst 8th March 2019 03:00 PM

BBC News: hamima Begum - IS teenager's baby son has died, SDF confirms

"The baby son of Shamima Begum - who fled London to join the Islamic State group - has died, a spokesman for the Syrian Democratic Forces has said.

The group, which runs the camp where the teenager has been living, confirmed the death on Friday.

The baby died of pneumonia, according to a medical certificate. He was less than three weeks old."

Giz 8th March 2019 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey (Post 12620756)
Now there's the choice of harshly punishing anyone we catch and ensuring the remainder will fight to the death, or making it seem attractive and worthwhile to leave the battle. Hard choices.

Is she leaving the battle permanently? Or just retreating to regroup?

i.e. it doesn't sound as if she has renounced her ideology/allegiance to ISIS.

Vixen 8th March 2019 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Information Analyst (Post 12626497)
BBC News: hamima Begum - IS teenager's baby son has died, SDF confirms

"The baby son of Shamima Begum - who fled London to join the Islamic State group - has died, a spokesman for the Syrian Democratic Forces has said.

The group, which runs the camp where the teenager has been living, confirmed the death on Friday.

The baby died of pneumonia, according to a medical certificate. He was less than three weeks old."

That's terribly sad. Javid should now let Shamima Begum return to the UK as a matter of compassion. Although I despise what Begum stands for, I wasn't sure it was legally correct for him to strip her of British nationality simply as a knee-jerk soporific to the tabloid press instead of taking the trouble to establish her exact nationality status. I can see that as an under-21 she could technically be seen to be automatically a maternal Bangladeshi but I can't help suspecting that was a mere assumption on his part.

Arcade22 8th March 2019 08:17 PM

Apparently the baby died because her mother lost her citizenship:

Quote:

Following news of the boy’s death, the shadow home secretary, Diane Abbott, also criticised Javid’s decision. She tweeted: “It is against international law to make someone stateless, and now an innocent child has died as a result of a British woman being stripped of her citizenship. This is callous and inhumane.”
For some reason i get the impression that a child born to a mother who carried the pregnancy to term in a war zone where she repeatedly was forced to retreat with her husband as their "caliphate" crumbled, with the accompanying lack of proper nutrition and constant stress, combined with being born in a squalid refugee camp, doesn't have a very good chance of survival. Her two other kids died too.

It's not like she's innocent victim in all of this. If anything she deserves most of the blame for any suffering her kids experienced. Just like she deserves her fair share of the blame for the suffering endured by the children, men and women in the "caliphate" and those subjected to its warmongering. They will continue to endure that for the rest of their lives thanks to the traumas they were subjected to by the heartless and cruel bastards she so enthusiastically embraced.

Darat 9th March 2019 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vixen (Post 12626504)
That's terribly sad. Javid should now let Shamima Begum return to the UK as a matter of compassion. Although I despise what Begum stands for, I wasn't sure it was legally correct for him to strip her of British nationality simply as a knee-jerk soporific to the tabloid press instead of taking the trouble to establish her exact nationality status. I can see that as an under-21 she could technically be seen to be automatically a maternal Bangladeshi but I can't help suspecting that was a mere assumption on his part.

Eh? What's changed, she had already lost 2 other children, is 3 a magic "get back to UK" number?

Skeptic Ginger 9th March 2019 01:05 AM

She should be allowed back and tried and put in jail. This is a kid that was 15 when she left. I have some compassion for her, but not enough she shouldn't go to jail.

I am surprised the baby died that soon. Maybe these three kids had some kind of birth defect like a genetic heart problem.

GlennB 9th March 2019 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 12626839)
Eh? What's changed, she had already lost 2 other children, is 3 a magic "get back to UK" number?

Aye. Some have - or are trying to create - the impression that she lost this child because of the UK's actions. In reality she was bound to have that baby in Syria, given the point in her pregnancy and the time and effort it would have taken to get her out of that camp to travel.

KDLarsen 9th March 2019 03:07 AM

The one thing that really grates me, is the repeated use of

Quote:

return home
When I'm pretty sure, that the for the past 4 years they've happily called the so-called caliphate 'home', renouncing the wicked western ways of Britain, The Netherlands, France, Germany, etc., and calling on muslims there to join them in paradise on earth.

SusanB-M1 9th March 2019 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KDLarsen (Post 12626903)
The one thing that really grates me, is the repeated use of



When I'm pretty sure, that the for the past 4 years they've happily called the so-called caliphate 'home', renouncing the wicked western ways of Britain, The Netherlands, France, Germany, etc., and calling on muslims there to join them in paradise on earth.

Yes, I agree - I think that phrase is a bit too cloyingly sentimental.

Vixen 9th March 2019 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 12626839)
Eh? What's changed, she had already lost 2 other children, is 3 a magic "get back to UK" number?

Eh? Your UK nationality is not dependent on your personal views. You could be a serial murderer/rapist, a pension-fund raiding crook or granny-bashing mugger, yet still be 100% a British national.

Kimo sabe?

Vixen 9th March 2019 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcade22 (Post 12626740)
Apparently the baby died because her mother lost her citizenship:



For some reason i get the impression that a child born to a mother who carried the pregnancy to term in a war zone where she repeatedly was forced to retreat with her husband as their "caliphate" crumbled, with the accompanying lack of proper nutrition and constant stress, combined with being born in a squalid refugee camp, doesn't have a very good chance of survival. Her two other kids died too.

It's not like she's innocent victim in all of this. If anything she deserves most of the blame for any suffering her kids experienced. Just like she deserves her fair share of the blame for the suffering endured by the children, men and women in the "caliphate" and those subjected to its warmongering. They will continue to endure that for the rest of their lives thanks to the traumas they were subjected to by the heartless and cruel bastards she so enthusiastically embraced.

Begum is not an innocent victim by any stretch of imagination but she did beg the British government to let her return to the UK with her expected newborn. It could and should have said yes, as she was clearly a vulnerable individual.

The baby is an innocent victim.

Vixen 9th March 2019 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 12626845)
She should be allowed back and tried and put in jail. This is a kid that was 15 when she left. I have some compassion for her, but not enough she shouldn't go to jail.

I am surprised the baby died that soon. Maybe these three kids had some kind of birth defect like a genetic heart problem.

According to a Save The Children spokesperson, the baby died from pneumonia as the refuge camps get very cold at night. People die from hypothermia. The young child just gets exhausted trying to breathe and dies through sheer lack of strength. The shame is, pneumonia is fully treatable with antibiotics and intensive care, had these been available.

GlennB 9th March 2019 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vixen (Post 12627014)
Begum is not an innocent victim by any stretch of imagination but she did beg the British government to let her return to the UK with her expected newborn. It could and should have said yes, as she was clearly a vulnerable individual.

The baby is an innocent victim
.

Although I believe the UK was utterly wrong to 'renounce' her citizenship, I disagree with the highlighted. She was close to full-term when this news broke and living in a hellhole refugee camp. There was no reasonable way to get her out before the birth of the child.

Vixen 9th March 2019 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlennB (Post 12626849)
Aye. Some have - or are trying to create - the impression that she lost this child because of the UK's actions. In reality she was bound to have that baby in Syria, given the point in her pregnancy and the time and effort it would have taken to get her out of that camp to travel.

The BBC and SKY journalists plus attendant camera crews had no problems at all going here and back.

Vixen 9th March 2019 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlennB (Post 12627018)
Although I believe the UK was utterly wrong to 'renounce' her citizenship, I disagree with the highlighted. She was close to full-term when this news broke and living in a hellhole refugee camp. There was no reasonable way to get her out before the birth of the child.

I think something concerted now has to be done internationally to save those children in the Syrian refuge camps.


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