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-   -   ISIS teenager wants to come home (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=334783)

Seismosaurus 19th February 2019 02:00 PM

Can we drop a bomb on her now? Just a little one?

Strawberry 19th February 2019 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baron (Post 12606797)
He should cancel the parents' citizenship whilst he's at it, and boot them out. They're as culpable as she is.

I don't agree, unless you have evidence they're culpable.

baron 19th February 2019 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strawberry (Post 12606800)
I don't agree, unless you have evidence they're culpable.

For a start her father took her to extremist flag-burning rallies and mixed with the likes of terrorist supporter and hate preacher Anjem Choudary and Lee Riby's murderer Michael Adebolajo.

Strawberry 19th February 2019 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baron (Post 12606818)
For a start her father took her to extremist flag-burning rallies and mixed with the likes of terrorist supporter and hate preacher Anjem Choudary and Lee Riby's murderer Michael Adebolajo.

No he didn't. It might be time for her father's lawyer to start issuing threats to sue over that slander because people are repeating it all over the internet even though there isn't a shred of truth to it.

It was Amina Abase's father who did all that, Shamina Begum's father has no history of radical activity at all. And given that Begum snuck around stealing jewelry and money off her family to fund her trip and then stole her sister's passport to travel on, I would suggest she knew all along that her parents would have stopped her if they'd known what she was up to.

baron 19th February 2019 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strawberry (Post 12606828)
No he didn't. It might be time for her father's lawyer to start issuing threats to sue over that slander because people are repeating it all over the internet even though there isn't a shred of truth to it.

It was Amina Abase's father who did all that, Shamina Begum's father has no history of radical activity at all. And given that Begum snuck around stealing jewelry and money off her family to fund her trip and then stole her sister's passport to travel on, I would suggest she knew all along that her parents would have stopped her if they'd known what she was up to.

That's what I heard reported. If it's untrue then I retract my statement. I'll look tomorrow.

commandlinegamer 19th February 2019 02:54 PM

Yes. Some half-decent citations in posts (and elsewhere: I read on Twitter she was Dutch—wonder where that came from?) would be nice.

baron 19th February 2019 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strawberry (Post 12606828)
No he didn't. It might be time for her father's lawyer to start issuing threats to sue over that slander because people are repeating it all over the internet even though there isn't a shred of truth to it.

It was Amina Abase's father who did all that, Shamina Begum's father has no history of radical activity at all. And given that Begum snuck around stealing jewelry and money off her family to fund her trip and then stole her sister's passport to travel on, I would suggest she knew all along that her parents would have stopped her if they'd known what she was up to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by baron (Post 12606843)
That's what I heard reported. If it's untrue then I retract my statement. I'll look tomorrow.

OK, I've checked and I can't find it so I retract my statement. Without doubt I did read it on some outlet but I can't recall which and therefore it appears it's not true. There's no evidence Begum's parents intentionally radicalised her.

Strawberry 19th February 2019 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baron (Post 12606864)
OK, I've checked and I can't find it so I retract my statement. Without doubt I did read it on some outlet but I can't recall which and therefore it appears it's not true. There's no evidence Begum's parents intentionally radicalised her.

That was Amira Abase's father, one of the girls who travelled with her. Scroll right down to the bottom of the article about her....


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-reporter.html

Darat 19th February 2019 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strawberry (Post 12606785)
Her parents were both born in Bangladesh, giving her automatic Bangladeshi citizenship. Its in any of the many news reports on the Home Secretary's decision.

Why should they grant her citizenship?

Strawberry 19th February 2019 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 12606900)
Why should they grant her citizenship?

She already has it. Everyone born to a Bangladeshi parent has automatic citizenship up until the age of 21, at which stage they need to apply to retain it or they lose it. She's 19, so the automatic citizen rule still applies.

Darat 19th February 2019 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strawberry (Post 12606909)
She already has it. Everyone born to a Bangladeshi parent has automatic citizenship up until the age of 21, at which stage they need to apply to retain it or they lose it. She's 19, so the automatic citizen rule still applies.

She automatically had British citizenship, she doesn't now. I see no reason why Bangladesh would give her citizenship.

Strawberry 19th February 2019 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 12606938)
She automatically had British citizenship, she doesn't now. I see no reason why Bangladesh would give her citizenship.

She already has Bangladeshi citizenship. The British were able to revoke because they got there first, Bangladesh now can't revoke because it would make her stateless which is illegal under international law.

There's a Bangladeshi consulate in Damascus, maybe the Syrian Kurds could send her there if they don't want her, they can arrange safe passage to her new country.

cullennz 19th February 2019 04:09 PM

Edit:

Scratch that. Thought she was called two different names like her Wiki says, but it is 2 different people.

Strawberry 19th February 2019 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cullennz (Post 12606945)
This is an old article about her from the time, with comments from her father.

Had lost her mother recently and got groomed apparently

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-10108507.html

No, that's not her father either. That's Sharmeena Begum's father, and despite the similarity in name they are no relation. Sharmeena Begum was the schoolfriend who travelled on her own to Syria in 2014 and hasn't been heard from since. Shamima Begum is the one who travelled with two other girls in 2015 and has been all over the news since being found in a Syrian refugee camp by a journalist last week.

cullennz 19th February 2019 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strawberry (Post 12606956)
No, that's not her father either. That's Sharmeena Begum's father, and despite the similarity in name they are no relation. Sharmeena Begum was the schoolfriend who travelled on her own to Syria in 2014 and hasn't been heard from since. Shamima Begum is the one who travelled with two other girls in 2015 and has been all over the news since being found in a Syrian refugee camp by a journalist last week.

Yeah I was looking at the Wiki page and got confused because the Sharmeena is also called Shamina.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharme...-theguardian-5

Arcade22 19th February 2019 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by epeeist (Post 12606239)
2. She has a child who is or I assume has a claim to UK citizenship - if only for the child's sake, she should be allowed to return.

I said it before and i'll say it again: if allowing her home is motivated by humanitarian concerns then surely there are far more worthy young women with children in Syria, including the victims of ISIS, that should take precedence before her and her child?

Legally speaking, as a British citizen (for now at least, presumably her citizenship won't be considered to be revoked until the decision is final) she has a far better case for getting assistance in getting to the UK. Then again since she not only willingly left the UK for a dangerous war zone but also intentionally went into the territory of a foreign power that was totally hostile towards the UK with the intent of settling there, it's not hard to make the case that she has no legitimate basis to demand any speedy repatriation or state assistance.

Describing her actions as outright treason is neither hyperbolic or legally unsound.

IanS 20th February 2019 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cullennz (Post 12606695)
She is not Bangladeshi. She is English



She currently has UK Nationality with a British passport. But as I pointed out with a link to Monday's BBC news report, the UK Home Secretary has now written to her parents saying that he is officially stripping her of her UK Nationality. A law has been in place since 1981 allowing the Home Secrarty to do that, providing it does not render the person "Stateless" ... and that law has apparently already been used a number of times since 1981, so Ms Begum would just be the latest of several IS terrorists to be stripped of British Citizenship under that law.

So that part is clear and legal. The complication arises over whether or not Ms Begum would then be "Stateless". The Home Secretary apparently thinks she would be entitled to the Bangladeshi nationality of her mother, but that is so far not completely clear, and it may be that the Bangladesh government could legally refuse to accept that in a case like this.

This may well turn into a legal dispute around fine points of UK law, International law, and Bangladeshi law, and the devil may be in the detail of exactly how each nations law is worded and what earlier legal precedents had been set. IOW, the legal situation and likely outcome (which may take years) is not yet clear (despite what anyone else may have posted here).

jimbob 20th February 2019 10:00 AM

It is pretty crap for the UK to effectively say, "Yes, Bangladesh is far more capable of dealing with this potential terrorist than we are".

baron 20th February 2019 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbob (Post 12607735)
It is pretty crap for the UK to effectively say, "Yes, Bangladesh is far more capable of dealing with this potential terrorist than we are".

Crap in what way? She'll blend right in with the 40 million Muslims who share her views -

Quote:

A 2013 Pew Research Center poll asked Muslims around the world whether attacks on civilians were justified. Globally 72% of Muslims said violence against civilians is never justified, and in the US, 81% of Muslims opposed such violence. About 14% of Muslims in the nations surveyed (and 8% of Muslims in the US) said violence against civilians is "often" or "sometimes" justified. 26% of Muslims in Bangladesh believe attacks are either somewhat justified or often justified...
- and since she's only 'at war' with the West I'm sure she won't cause them an problems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim...ward_terrorism

jimbob 20th February 2019 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baron (Post 12607748)
Crap in what way? She'll blend right in with the 40 million Muslims who share her views -



- and since she's only 'at war' with the West I'm sure she won't cause them an problems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim...ward_terrorism

I never knew that Sunni Muslims were part of the West. Or Yezidis

Or many other Shia Muslims either

applecorped 20th February 2019 10:38 AM

Enemy combatant

theprestige 20th February 2019 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbob (Post 12607735)
It is pretty crap for the UK to effectively say, "Yes, Bangladesh is far more capable of dealing with this potential terrorist than we are".

I don't think the UK is saying that at all. More like, "no, this person is not fit to be a UK citizen. Since she holds other citizenship as well, they're welcome to her." The question of whether Bangladesh can deal with her effectively isn't addressed in this decision.

jimbob 20th February 2019 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by applecorped (Post 12607778)
Enemy combatant

Criminal.

Who should be tried with due process

Darat 20th February 2019 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12607796)
I don't think the UK is saying that at all. More like, "no, this person is not fit to be a UK citizen. Since she holds other citizenship as well, they're welcome to her." The question of whether Bangladesh can deal with her effectively isn't addressed in this decision.

She doesn't hold another citizenship. She may have some claim to another citizenship but she will have to apply for that and it is up to that country whether they accept her application, the UK cannot say another country has to give her citizenship.

The Bangladesh Minister of foreign affairs has stated she does not have Bangladesh citizenship.

Information Analyst 20th February 2019 12:13 PM

It strikes me that she has brought this on herself in more ways that one. If she had managed to make her own way back to the UK, it's far less likely that she would have then had her citizenship stripped and been deported (to wherever), before or after prosecution. By drawing attention to herself whilst still in Syria, she allowed the UK government to cut her loose more easily.

Darat 20th February 2019 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Information Analyst (Post 12607894)
It strikes me that she has brought this on herself in more ways that one. If she had managed to make her own way back to the UK, it's far less likely that she would have then had her citizenship stripped and been deported (to wherever), before or after prosecution. By drawing attention to herself whilst still in Syria, she allowed the UK government to cut her loose more easily.

It was apparently a chance encounter with the initial journalist who was visiting the centre and recognised her rather than her trying to get attention.

cullennz 20th February 2019 12:42 PM

And the winner for the most obvious thing that was going to happen next competition is............

Bangladesh tells her to **** off

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47312207

Back over to you UK

baron 20th February 2019 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbob (Post 12607774)
I never knew that Sunni Muslims were part of the West. Or Yezidis

Or many other Shia Muslims either

I was more referring to her attitude now, that Western civilians are valid targets on the grounds that the West has killed Muslim civilians.

baron 20th February 2019 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cullennz (Post 12607938)
And the winner for the most obvious thing that was going to happen next competition is............

Bangladesh tells her to **** off

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47312207

Back over to you UK

Why? That's her problem not ours.

cullennz 20th February 2019 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baron (Post 12607986)
Why? That's her problem not ours.

Her primary citizenship is British

With this the UK will be making her stateless if they take away her citizenship

IanS 20th February 2019 01:14 PM

Bangladesh refuses to accept Shamima Begum (as predicted; see previous post directly above) -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47312207

Bangladesh Minister of Foreign Affairs says Shamima Begum does not have Bangladeshi citizenship, and he adds that "Bangladesh has a“zero tollerance approach to terrorism and violent extremism” and “there is no question of her being allowed into the country”.

jimbob 20th February 2019 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cullennz (Post 12607988)
Her primary citizenship is British

With this the UK will be making her stateless if they take away her citizenship

If she was British, presumably her son would have British citizenship.

But I'm sure our Government wouldn't be incompetent enough to undermine their own case.

cullennz 20th February 2019 01:31 PM

I think that it might all be a bit of a moot point anyway

Doubt the UK govt will help her back and unless some weirdo rich person/group secures her travel back to the UK, it is pushing it to see her getting back by herself.

I doubt she has any cash

Elaedith 20th February 2019 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbob (Post 12608014)
If she was British, presumably her son would have British citizenship.

But I'm sure our Government wouldn't be incompetent enough to undermine their own case.

Her son would have British citizenship by descent because he was born before her citizenship was revoked.

Usually you obtain citizenship by descent automatically at birth. You do not have to apply for it or be granted it.

There is something about Bangladeshi citizenship by descent on this link:

http://bdlaws.minlaw.gov.bd/sections...ctions_id=7472

It seems to state that you get don't automatically get Bangladeshi citizenship by descent if the parent only has Bangladeshi citizenship by descent.

baron 20th February 2019 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cullennz (Post 12607988)
Her primary citizenship is British

With this the UK will be making her stateless if they take away her citizenship

That depends if she actually did have dual citizenship. If she did then the onus is on Bangladesh to sort her out as they are the ones who made her stateless. If she never had Bangladeshi citizenship then it's up to the courts to decide if the UK acted legally. If they decide the UK did not we still don't have to accept her back, there's nothing that could compel us, but it might provoke a change of mind.

baron 20th February 2019 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elaedith (Post 12608055)
Her son would have British citizenship by descent because he was born before her citizenship was revoked.

He does. I wouldn't object to the UK taking him in if he were to be adopted by a non-Islamic family, but I doubt that will happen.

Darat 20th February 2019 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbob (Post 12608014)
If she was British, presumably her son would have British citizenship.



But I'm sure our Government wouldn't be incompetent enough to undermine their own case.

Since the baby was born whilst she was a British citizen it would be British by descent. One would wonder how the HS would frame a decision to remove British citizenship from the baby.

Darat 20th February 2019 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elaedith (Post 12608055)
Her son would have British citizenship by descent because he was born before her citizenship was revoked.



Usually you obtain citizenship by descent automatically at birth. You do not have to apply for it or be granted it.



There is something about Bangladeshi citizenship by descent on this link:



http://bdlaws.minlaw.gov.bd/sections...ctions_id=7472



It seems to state that you get don't automatically get Bangladeshi citizenship by descent if the parent only has Bangladeshi citizenship by descent.

That would be the same as the UK.

dudalb 20th February 2019 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cullennz (Post 12607938)
And the winner for the most obvious thing that was going to happen next competition is............

Bangladesh tells her to **** off

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47312207

Back over to you UK

No surprise. Islamic radicals is the last freaking thing that Bangladesh wants.

cullennz 20th February 2019 08:58 PM

Now Holland have said take a jump to her.

She might be living next door to one of the poms on here in no time....

Sorry shouldn't laugh, lol


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