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-   -   Covid-19 and Politics (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=342577)

Captain_Swoop 27th April 2020 12:48 PM

Top Russian doctor, Dr. Yelena Nepomnyashchaya, "fell out of a window" from the 5th floor of the hospital where she is Chief Physician right when she was on a conference call fighting for more PPE for her doctors & nurses.


Yes I know, Daily Mail but ...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...PE-medics.html

Planigale 27th April 2020 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13070304)
Thanks, but I'd rather go from what Dyson himself has said, one presumes he knows what he has been and what he is doing better than a journalist... Apart from keeping control of costs, amazing it's cost such a round figure.....

Previously you haven't been so trusting of Dyson, perhaps you are learning?

Samson 27th April 2020 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Atheist (Post 13070184)
Being a bit nit-picking, I think.

Article has been moved/taken down.

Ok, I'll concede on she did better than Bojo, bar set for the ministry of silly walks contestants to clear. :)

PhantomWolf 27th April 2020 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Atheist (Post 13070184)
Being a bit nit-picking, I think.

Article has been moved/taken down.

Problem was he didn't paste the URL correctly.

A mates' trip to New York, a rugby team and a stag party - NZ's 16 Covid-19 clusters
or for those that prefer the url directly
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12326990

Mader Levap 27th April 2020 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13070318)
Top Russian doctor, Dr. Yelena Nepomnyashchaya, "fell out of a window" from the 5th floor of the hospital where she is Chief Physician right when she was on a conference call fighting for more PPE for her doctors & nurses.

This kind of thing happens a lot in this banana republic, yes.

Captain_Swoop 27th April 2020 06:03 PM

Johnson must be livid watching BBC Panorama.

There were NO GOWNS, VISORS or SWABS IN THE GOVT STOCKPILE.
Govt classes cleaning equipment, waste bags & paper towels as PPE for propaganda purposes.
Each glove of a pair is counted as an item of PPE.

The Atheist 27th April 2020 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13070710)
Each glove of a pair is counted as an item of PPE.

It's things like that that make people wonder in awe how you ever won a single war, let alone all of them for a thousand years or so.

Darat 27th April 2020 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Planigale (Post 13070360)
Previously you haven't been so trusting of Dyson, perhaps you are learning?


See this is your obvious political bias peaking through.

Captain_Swoop 28th April 2020 02:08 AM

I've just heard Matt Hancock say he hasn't seen last night's #Panorama, and in the same breath saying that its findings are wrong.

One of those things can't be true.

Captain_Swoop 28th April 2020 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Atheist (Post 13070786)
It's things like that that make people wonder in awe how you ever won a single war, let alone all of them for a thousand years or so.

The Pub Landlord explains it

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

Captain_Swoop 28th April 2020 03:07 AM

Just been watching French news (FR2). Images of the "Conseil Scientifique" equivalent of SAGE in the UK at work. No problem about their identities, nor about making their discussions and conclusions public. What is so exceptional about the UK that information has to be secret?

The Don 28th April 2020 03:55 AM

The death toll in UK care homes continues to rise - although there is a considerable reporting time-lag.

Quote:

A third of all coronavirus deaths in England and Wales are now happening in care homes, figures show.

Office for National Statistics data showed there were 2,000 coronavirus care home deaths in the week ending 17 April - double the previous week.

Projections for the following week - up to last Friday - suggested the numbers have since continued to rise.

It comes as coronavirus hospital deaths have started falling after peaking on 8 April.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52455072

My father had been in a care home for 18 months before he died in November last year. For the last few months he was very confused. I think he would have been very distressed that people were wearing masks and that I was no longer visiting. I'm so glad I was spared the anxiety of having a loved one 300 miles away with no way of visiting them.


edited to add...

Quote:

But these figures may be an under-estimate.

The overall number of people dying in care homes is now three times higher than it was before the pandemic started.

Less than half of these extra deaths are being attributed to coronavirus.
The true Coronavirus toll could be frighteningly high.

The Don 28th April 2020 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13070996)
I've just heard Matt Hancock say he hasn't seen last night's #Panorama, and in the same breath saying that its findings are wrong.

One of those things can't be true.

I suppose he could have received second-hand accounts of their findings and considers them wrong.

The Don 28th April 2020 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13071024)
Just been watching French news (FR2). Images of the "Conseil Scientifique" equivalent of SAGE in the UK at work. No problem about their identities, nor about making their discussions and conclusions public. What is so exceptional about the UK that information has to be secret?

Pas devant les enfants ;)

My personal views are:
  • The UK doesn't have a culture of openness in such things, the government likely consider the middle of a pandemic to be the wrong time to change this
  • The UK press would have a field day with attendees being pilloried and scapegoated
  • It would also offer an opportunity for some attendees to grandstand
  • The again they probably don't want the raw scientific advice in the public domain either
  • And they're probably a bit cagey about some of the attendees

Captain_Swoop 28th April 2020 04:25 AM

Today the entire workforce of both Guys and St Thomas's hospitals, two of London's biggest will walkout en-masse (emergency cover will be in place) and hold a 30 min rally for action to secure the PPE and proper testing.

How ungrateful, they are getting a minutes silence for the staff that have died, what more do they want?

Nessie 28th April 2020 04:55 AM

UK the worst hit country in Europe;

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...europe-charts/

"The UK’s five-day average for coronavirus deaths is now the highest of any major European economy at this point in the pandemic’s curve, new analysis has revealed.

At this point in the pandemic, some 42 days since the tenth death, the five-day average for deaths in the UK stands at 598, according to the latest data from Johns Hopkins University. This is far higher than Italy (559), France (509) and Spain (423).

UK coronavirus deaths have been the highest among all major European countries for four days in a row, overtaking France at this stage of the pandemic.

This is despite the international data for the UK only recording deaths in hospitals, in contrast to countries like France which records all community deaths...."

Captain_Swoop 28th April 2020 05:10 AM

From Panorama

In March the Govt DOWNGRADED COVID19 from the High Consequence Infectious Disease classification thereby weakening legal PPE requirements for health and care workers.

Captain_Swoop 28th April 2020 05:17 AM

Paper towels... is that "one pack of towels is one item of PPE" or one pack of towels is 200 items of PPE?

The Don 28th April 2020 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13071089)
From Panorama

In March the Govt DOWNGRADED COVID19 from the High Consequence Infectious Disease classification thereby weakening legal PPE requirements for health and care workers.

I guess that's the UK government's version of the Kobayashi Maru, simply define the problem away :mad:

Squeegee Beckenheim 28th April 2020 05:56 AM

I was listening to a podcast which featured political psychologist Stephen Lewandowsky yesterday. It's likely my google-fu being weak because I can't find it online myself, but he said that he and around 700 of his colleagues had written an open letter to the UK government/SAGE asking them to cite the research that they used to come to their conclusion that they couldn't institute a lockdown earlier because it's nothing they'd ever heard of and uses terms that they also have never heard of ("social fatigue", being one example). He said it was especially notable because the letter had gained a significant amount of attention (presumably amongst the relevant crowd, since I hadn't seen it and can't find it) and not only have the government/SAGE not responded, but nobody at all had even come forwards to say that they've heard of the concepts that the government's allegedly scientific approach was based on.

Squeegee Beckenheim 28th April 2020 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nessie (Post 13071080)
UK the worst hit country in Europe;

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...europe-charts/

"The UK’s five-day average for coronavirus deaths is now the highest of any major European economy at this point in the pandemic’s curve, new analysis has revealed.

At this point in the pandemic, some 42 days since the tenth death, the five-day average for deaths in the UK stands at 598, according to the latest data from Johns Hopkins University. This is far higher than Italy (559), France (509) and Spain (423).

UK coronavirus deaths have been the highest among all major European countries for four days in a row, overtaking France at this stage of the pandemic.

This is despite the international data for the UK only recording deaths in hospitals, in contrast to countries like France which records all community deaths...."

Ah, no-one can **** things up quite like the UK...

Darat 28th April 2020 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13071116)
I guess that's the UK government's version of the Kobayashi Maru, simply define the problem away :mad:


Indeed it is.

Darat 28th April 2020 06:10 AM

Covid-19 and Politics
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim (Post 13071125)
I was listening to a podcast which featured political psychologist Stephen Lewandowsky yesterday. It's likely my google-fu being weak because I can't find it online myself, but he said that he and around 700 of his colleagues had written an open letter to the UK government/SAGE asking them to cite the research that they used to come to their conclusion that they couldn't institute a lockdown earlier because it's nothing they'd ever heard of and uses terms that they also have never heard of ("social fatigue", being one example). He said it was especially notable because the letter had gained a significant amount of attention (presumably amongst the relevant crowd, since I hadn't seen it and can't find it) and not only have the government/SAGE not responded, but nobody at all had even come forwards to say that they've heard of the concepts that the government's allegedly scientific approach was based on.


This one: https://behavioralscientist.org/why-...al-distancing/

?

Ulf Nereng 28th April 2020 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13071052)
Pas devant les enfants ;)

My personal views are:
  • The UK doesn't have a culture of openness in such things, the government likely consider the middle of a pandemic to be the wrong time to change this
  • The UK press would have a field day with attendees being pilloried and scapegoated
  • It would also offer an opportunity for some attendees to grandstand
  • The again they probably don't want the raw scientific advice in the public domain either
  • And they're probably a bit cagey about some of the attendees

"In government there is always something to be discreet about." - Sir Humphrey Appleby :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX45hc0aZt0

quadraginta 28th April 2020 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13070234)
Also how the hell has he spent 20 million!?!


To paraphrase the late Senator Dirksen, "A million here, a million there, and pretty soon you're talking real money.".

Captain_Swoop 28th April 2020 07:27 AM

Cost of one Boris Johnson after-dinner speech: £51,000
Payout to families of NHS workers who die of coronavirus: £60,000

Captain_Swoop 28th April 2020 07:58 AM

Victoria Atkins, the minister for safeguarding...asked whether officials had been double counting in classing each single glove as one item, she said: "I have got a box of gloves at home, and they are not in pairs."

Cheetah 28th April 2020 08:05 AM

How does misinformation start? Why is it spread? What is being done about it? What is “behavioural fatigue”?


The Lancet Voice speaks with Sander van der Linden, director of the Cambridge Social Decision-Making Laboratory, to find out more.


The bit about “behavioural fatigue” starts about 5 mins from the end.
In short, it's a real thing but there is no clear evidence and certainly not enough to base these kinds of decisions on.

Nessie 28th April 2020 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim (Post 13071127)
Ah, no-one can **** things up quite like the UK...


It is not just the UK. Look at who was supposedly the best prepared countries to deal with a pandemic;

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/glo...edness-ranked/

https://2oqz471sa19h3vbwa53m33yj-wpe...rity-index.jpg

Squeegee Beckenheim 28th April 2020 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13071140)

That certainly reads like it, thanks.

Dr.Sid 28th April 2020 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nessie (Post 13071248)
It is not just the UK. Look at who was supposedly the best prepared countries to deal with a pandemic;

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/glo...edness-ranked/

Clearly health security is something you want in this pandemic :D
On the serious note, I think the main difference is when the lockdown was issued. If it's done when you have 1000 cases, or when you have 10 ? Would be interesting to put into table number of cases when emergency was declared, and when daily cases topped. Sadly I'm too lazy to do that.

Darat 28th April 2020 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13071239)
Victoria Atkins, the minister for safeguarding...asked whether officials had been double counting in classing each single glove as one item, she said: "I have got a box of gloves at home, and they are not in pairs."


To be fair that is how they are usually sold, I’ve an old box of 40 disposable gloves, that was 40 single gloves not 40 pairs of gloves.

Captain_Swoop 28th April 2020 11:23 AM

Red Arrows should perform fly-overs of British cities during the Thursday night “clap for the NHS” to raise national morale, urges Tobias Ellwood.

Defence committee chairman also suggests other military aircraft could buzz skies to honour health workers

Cheaper than giving them more pay or PPE I suppose.

Captain_Swoop 28th April 2020 11:54 AM

Lots of Tory supporters jumping on the BBC. 'fake news' enemy of the people' 'Corbyn propaganda' 'should be ashamed' 'shut them down'
Claims that all the doctors and nurses interviewed are 'activists' 'Ofcom are all ex BBC staff' and on and on.
Even some Tory MPs getting in on it.
Not one of them has said anything to refute or rebut anything in the Panorama program.

Darat 28th April 2020 12:10 PM

Covid-19 and Politics
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13071430)
Red Arrows should perform fly-overs of British cities during the Thursday night “clap for the NHS” to raise national morale, urges Tobias Ellwood.

Defence committee chairman also suggests other military aircraft could buzz skies to honour health workers

Cheaper than giving them more pay or PPE I suppose.


Will it cost more than £60,000?

Captain_Swoop 28th April 2020 12:33 PM

British Airways is set to make up to 12,000 workers redundant, its parent company has said.

Quote:

The airline, which employs 42,000 people, has suffered from the global collapse in passenger numbers caused by the coronavirus pandemic.

Owner International Airlines Group (IAG) announced the planned job cuts as it revealed that revenues plunged 13 per cent in the first quarter of 2020.

In a statement, IAG said: “In light of the impact of Covid-19 on current operations and the expectation that the recovery of passenger demand to 2019 levels will take several years, British Airways is formally notifying its trade unions about a proposed restructuring and redundancy programme.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/b...-a4426456.html

Planigale 28th April 2020 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13071024)
Just been watching French news (FR2). Images of the "Conseil Scientifique" equivalent of SAGE in the UK at work. No problem about their identities, nor about making their discussions and conclusions public. What is so exceptional about the UK that information has to be secret?

It may be that when people agreed to participate in SAGE they were told that this would be confidential and discussion would be confidential (Chatham house rules). Members can say they are members if they wish, that few have done so implies they do not wish their identities to be published. Now it may have been wrong for the government to offer confidentiality in the first place, but if the government has done so it would be equally wrong to go back on a commitment.

Planigale 28th April 2020 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim (Post 13071125)
I was listening to a podcast which featured political psychologist Stephen Lewandowsky yesterday. It's likely my google-fu being weak because I can't find it online myself, but he said that he and around 700 of his colleagues had written an open letter to the UK government/SAGE asking them to cite the research that they used to come to their conclusion that they couldn't institute a lockdown earlier because it's nothing they'd ever heard of and uses terms that they also have never heard of ("social fatigue", being one example). He said it was especially notable because the letter had gained a significant amount of attention (presumably amongst the relevant crowd, since I hadn't seen it and can't find it) and not only have the government/SAGE not responded, but nobody at all had even come forwards to say that they've heard of the concepts that the government's allegedly scientific approach was based on.

Of course they could just google it!

https://www.gov.uk/government/groups...id-19-response

Captain_Swoop 28th April 2020 12:58 PM

A submarine captain who allowed his crew to hold a barbeque party during the Covid-19 lockdown has been sacked.

Quote:

Commander Jonathan Lewis, captain of nuclear powered hunter-killer submarine HMS Trenchant, allowed the party at Devonport dockyard in Plymouth.

A video shared on social media showed the crew dancing and laughing on the dockside after the submarine returned to the town for repairs.

The captain has been relieved of his command following a Royal Navy probe.

A senior defence source said it was one of a number of instances that had undermined trust and credibility in his command.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-52464885

Dancing and laughing!! the horror.

Emily's Cat 28th April 2020 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13071550)
A submarine captain who allowed his crew to hold a barbeque party during the Covid-19 lockdown has been sacked.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-52464885

Dancing and laughing!! the horror.

They've been effectively 100% isolated on a submarine for a while now, right? That's about as quarantined as you can get. Did they invite a bunch of other people to join their party, or was it just the crew? Because if it was just the crew, they were probably more socially distant on shore than they've been for the last however-long they've been at sea.


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