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-   -   When will Trump start claiming 2020 election fraud? (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=336853)

Trebuchet 7th June 2019 05:10 PM

When will Trump start claiming 2020 election fraud?
 
Because you know he will. Millions of illegals being bused from place to place, probably by Antifa. Etc.

d4m10n 7th June 2019 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trebuchet (Post 12720011)
Because you know he will. Millions of illegals being bused from place to place, probably by Antifa. Etc.

Before he loses, and then more afterwards.

Stacyhs 7th June 2019 05:13 PM

Start? He's never stopped!

Trebuchet 7th June 2019 05:15 PM

Damn, "defeat OR victory".

And how are there already two replies before I even see the post? Does it go up before I've done the poll?

theprestige 7th June 2019 05:17 PM

Do illegal immigrants actually vote, though?

I guess a lot of them have social security numbers and pay taxes like citizens do. But do they actually register to vote and go to the polls?

Stacyhs 7th June 2019 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12720022)
Do illegal immigrants actually vote, though?

I guess a lot of them have social security numbers and pay taxes like citizens do. But do they actually register to vote and go to the polls?

According to Lou Dobbs they do:
Quote:

We are watching, you know, millions of illegal immigrants cross our borders, and many of them voting in the past election that's what, just a couple weeks ago.
https://www.politifact.com/punditfac...oted-midterm-/

Trump likes to falsely claim that there's rampant voter fraud and rigged elections, but I don't think he's specifically claimed illegal immigrants are voting.

theprestige 7th June 2019 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 12720030)
According to Lou Dobbs they do:



https://www.politifact.com/punditfac...oted-midterm-/



Trump likes to falsely claim that there's rampant voter fraud and rigged elections, but I don't think he's specifically claimed illegal immigrants are voting.

Those are your best citations? Lou Dobbs and Donald Trump?

Stacyhs 7th June 2019 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12720039)
Those are your best citations? Lou Dobbs and Donald Trump?

If you had bothered reading my link, you'd have seen that Dobbs was judged "Pants of Fire" for that remark. Do I really have to put a :rolleyes: after every post?

theprestige 7th June 2019 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 12720042)
If you had bothered reading my link, you'd have seen that Dobbs was judged "Pants of Fire" for that remark. Do I really have to put a :rolleyes: after every post?

I'm asking yes or no questions, Stacyhs. Why are yes or no answers so difficult for you?

Stacyhs 7th June 2019 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12720045)
I'm asking yes or no questions, Stacyhs. Why are yes or no answers so difficult for you?

It was a stupid question to begin with so it deserved a sarcastic answer.

ETA: And it wasn't an honest question to begin with. It was something you could have easily googled for an answer.

Lurch 7th June 2019 06:07 PM

Calendrical errors... add 1 to each of the years in this list.

Trebuchet 7th June 2019 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lurch (Post 12720061)
Calendrical errors... add 1 to each of the years in this list.

Damn! I even wrote down the options before posting!

Cabbage 7th June 2019 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 12720022)
Do illegal immigrants actually vote, though?

I guess a lot of them have social security numbers and pay taxes like citizens do. But do they actually register to vote and go to the polls?

It's adorable that you still seem to think this is relevant.

Tero 7th June 2019 06:36 PM

It's not necessary to look into it. Trump says it's happening, it's happening. Trump says the Moon is part of Mars, well, then it is.

cullennz 7th June 2019 06:38 PM

As someone with no skin in the game the drowning in the tears of anguish when he wins again is going to be epic.

And hilarious to watch.

Loss Leader 7th June 2019 07:52 PM

Hasn't he already started doing this? I have to look it up.

sackett 7th June 2019 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trebuchet (Post 12720019)
Damn, "defeat OR victory"....

Hey, I was ready for "of." Sounds enough like Tromph and his damaged brain to be plausible.

Minoosh 7th June 2019 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 12720048)
It was a stupid question to begin with so it deserved a sarcastic answer.

ETA: And it wasn't an honest question to begin with. It was something you could have easily googled for an answer.

I thought it was an honest question. And my answer would be no. These folks generally are not trying to call attention to themselves.

Trump talked about millions of "illegal votes," which people seemed to think meant illegal immigrants.

Has an illegal immigrant ever tried to vote? Yeah, I'm sure there have been some cases.

The Atheist 7th June 2019 09:46 PM

Your poll contains a major error.

He won't call fraud, because he'll win again.

The Great Zaganza 7th June 2019 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Atheist (Post 12720154)
Your poll contains a major error.

He won't call fraud, because he'll win again.

he will even in that case, unless he gets 100%.

Cabbage 7th June 2019 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Atheist (Post 12720154)
Your poll contains a major error.

He won't call fraud, because he'll win again.


LOL! You are oh so adorably naive.

Quote:

Serious voter fraud in Virginia, New Hampshire and California - so why isn't the media reporting on this? Serious bias - big problem!

-DJ Trump, Nov 27, 2016

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...out-california

Safe-Keeper 7th June 2019 11:14 PM

He will probably throw around accusations of Deep State, fake news, and voting fraud continuously, with his sect members lapping it up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Atheist (Post 12720154)
Your poll contains a major error.

He won't call fraud, because he'll win again.

Serious question: why do you believe this? His ratings aren't better than in 2016, and he only won that one -- barely -- because like with Brexit, his opponents didn't vote in large enough numbers.

The Don 7th June 2019 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper (Post 12720188)
Serious question: why do you believe this? His ratings aren't better than in 2016, and he only won that one -- barely -- because like with Brexit, his opponents didn't vote in large enough numbers.

My personal view is that he will stand a better than 50% chance of being re-elected if he chooses to stand in 2020 because:
  • Incumbents tend to win Presidential elections
  • Unless the economy collapses between now and the election, most people will have fared reasonably well financially under this current administration so why switch horses mid-stream
  • President Trump has a solid 40% of the electorate who will support him come what may and more importantly will turn out to vote. The remaining 60% are split across various factions and many may cast their vote for third party candidates or not bother to turn out to vote
  • The GOP is successful at suppressing the votes among certain demographics. Rather than the 3 million illegals voting, it's not too much of a stretch to think that a combination of voter roll purging, more stringent voter ID laws and simply making it more difficult for working folks in some neighbourhoods to get to a polling station may result in a similar number of people being unable to vote

Also, unless the Democratic Party find an attractive and inspiring candidate then I can envisage the same "his opponents didn't vote in large enough numbers" issue reoccurring. Those who love President Trump will definitely get out and vote. Some of those who hate him may be so sickened that they simply cannot bring themselves to vote Democrat, especially if the candidate is another party veteran whose time has simply come around (Warren, Biden, Sanders and so on...).

Stacyhs 8th June 2019 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minoosh (Post 12720129)
I thought it was an honest question. And my answer would be no. These folks generally are not trying to call attention to themselves.

Trump talked about millions of "illegal votes," which people seemed to think meant illegal immigrants.

Has an illegal immigrant ever tried to vote? Yeah, I'm sure there have been some cases.

If he really wanted to know the answer, it would have taken all of a couple minutes to find it with a quick google search.

And he sure as hell wasn't asking a 'yes or no' question. I answered it by showing Lou Dobbs was falsely claiming there was voting by illegal immigrants but that Trump's claims were about election fraud and rigging, not specifically voting by illegal immigrants. His response was to insult me.

mgidm86 8th June 2019 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cabbage (Post 12720162)
LOL! You are oh so adorably naive.




Name-calling is not really a good look for someone here. And you've used "adorable" twice in rapid succession - mix it up a little maybe.

Anyways, wasn't it the Dems who said the election was a fraud, and that Trump didn't win and that we needed recounts and recounts of the recounts and ya that's how I remember it. They've been trying to get him removed ever since.

Trump complaining about election fraud in 2020 is pretty low on my list of things to care about. Wasn't there already a thread asking if Trump would give up his power if he lost in 2020? Talk about naive!

Some things Dems here are worried about and have come to naught:

- Trump the dictator
- Trump starting World War III
- Trump launching nukes
- Trump mishandling a future natural disaster
- Trump starting a race war
- Trump conspiring with Russia

Gawd I can't remember the 5 or 6 others anymore. Don't worry Dems, the world WILL come to an end and it WILL be Trumps fault, I'm pretty sure! Just hang in there!

It's difficult to take this forum seriously anymore.

Incidentally, I would like to see Trump out of office in 2020 but the Dems are looking like they aren't up to the task. Again.

The Atheist 8th June 2019 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper (Post 12720188)
Serious question: why do you believe this? His ratings aren't better than in 2016, and he only won that one -- barely -- because like with Brexit, his opponents didn't vote in large enough numbers.

1 He is a sitting president, and they rarely get beaten.
2 The same states he won in 2016 will vote for him again.
3 Republican voter analysis/AI is more advanced than the Dems.
4 The Dems will pick Biden, the easiest attack-ad target of them all.
5 Voter de-registration will peak in the marginal states and will exclude large numbers of black & Latino votes.
6 Trump fatigue. Voters have been hearing for 3 years about what a terrible person Trump is, yet he hasn't started any new wars and the economy is sailing nicely.

Elagabalus 8th June 2019 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Atheist (Post 12720619)
1 He is a sitting president, and they rarely get beaten.
2 The same states he won in 2016 will vote for him again.
3 Republican voter analysis/AI is more advanced than the Dems.
4 The Dems will pick Biden, the easiest attack-ad target of them all.
5 Voter de-registration will peak in the marginal states and will exclude large numbers of black & Latino votes.
6 Trump fatigue. Voters have been hearing for 3 years about what a terrible person Trump is, yet he hasn't started any new wars and the economy is sailing nicely.

Agree with 1,2, and 6. Which is enough to give Trump the Win. The mushy-middle is big on better-the-devil-you-know than vote for someone else.



And the thread title is just tempting fate.

The Atheist 8th June 2019 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elagabalus (Post 12720642)
Agree with 1,2, and 6. Which is enough to give Trump the Win. The mushy-middle is big on better-the-devil-you-know than vote for someone else.

And a YUGE win with Mexico.

Someone caved in to his bully tactics. That will count for a lot among the fat bullies - people I believe are more likely to vote for the fat bully.

JoeMorgue 8th June 2019 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper (Post 12720188)
Serious question: why do you believe this?

Multiple reasons. Primary one is because right now Iowa has 2.4% unemployment rate, Michigan has a 2.8% unemployment rate, Pennsylvania has a 3.9% unemployment rate, Wisconsin has a 2.9% unemployment rate, and Florida will have a 3.5% unemployment rate. That's the election as far as I'm concerned. He will take those states again in 2020.

.....NO.... stop. Stop. Move your fingers away from the keyboard. You, yes you the person reading this with the "bUt thOSe nUMbers dON't tEll tHE WHole sToRy!" breakdown already written out in your head. I know. And when our voting populace looks at the "whole story" instead of the easily spoon-feed context-less numbers that will matter.

Cabbage 8th June 2019 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgidm86 (Post 12720587)
Name-calling is not really a good look for someone here. And you've used "adorable" twice in rapid succession - mix it up a little maybe.

...and finishing the adorable trifecta, let's meet the poster who is both adorably whiny and adorably illiterate!

Quote:

Anyways, wasn't it the Dems who said the election was a fraud, and that Trump didn't win and that we needed recounts and recounts of the recounts and ya that's how I remember it. They've been trying to get him removed ever since.
This is where the illiterate part comes in. Did you miss/Were you unable to read the Trump Tweet accompanying my last post? The one where I supported my attribution of "naive" to The Atheist (ie: A factual statement, not mere name calling)? You know, the one explicitly showing that Trump claimed "Fraud" even after he won the election in 2016, just as The Atheist is sure won't happen in 2020 (LOL!).

Regarding Dems calling fraud ("Illegitimate" is the word I recall being used by Democrats, incidentally), well, unlike Trump's claim of millions of illegal votes , there's actually significant evidence of Russian interference in the election. I'm old enough to remember when evidence actually counted for something.

Quote:

Trump complaining about election fraud in 2020 is pretty low on my list of things to care about.
Not as low as caring what you think is on my list.

Quote:

Wasn't there already a thread asking if Trump would give up his power if he lost in 2020? Talk about naive!



Some things Dems here are worried about and have come to naught:

- Trump the dictator
- Trump starting World War III
- Trump launching nukes
- Trump mishandling a future natural disaster
- Trump starting a race war
- Trump conspiring with Russia

Naive is the belief that now you evidently seem to think you can predict the future.

Adorable, too!

Quote:

Gawd I can't remember the 5 or 6 others anymore. Don't worry Dems, the world WILL come to an end and it WILL be Trumps fault, I'm pretty sure! Just hang in there!

It's difficult to take this forum seriously anymore.

Incidentally, I would like to see Trump out of office in 2020 but the Dems are looking like they aren't up to the task. Again.
Oh wow, I never thought I'd encounter someone ignorant enough to believe that "Worry for" implies "Desire for", even on the Internet. Just more adorable illiteracy, I guess. Keep practicing your reading comprehension, bro; maybe some elementary schools have remedial reading classes for adults in your area? (I don't actually know, by the way; it's merely a suggestion).

Good Luck!

Trebuchet 8th June 2019 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Atheist (Post 12720619)
1 He is a sitting president, and they rarely get beaten.
2 The same states he won in 2016 will vote for him again.
3 Republican voter analysis/AI is more advanced than the Dems.
4 The Dems will pick Biden, the easiest attack-ad target of them all.
5 Voter de-registration will peak in the marginal states and will exclude large numbers of black & Latino votes.
6 Trump fatigue. Voters have been hearing for 3 years about what a terrible person Trump is, yet he hasn't started any new wars and the economy is sailing nicely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elagabalus (Post 12720642)
Agree with 1,2, and 6. Which is enough to give Trump the Win. The mushy-middle is big on better-the-devil-you-know than vote for someone else.

And the thread title is just tempting fate.

Disagree on 2. Trump won several states the Dems thought they had in hand by very small margins. Hopefully they won't make that mistake again.
Also on 5. Most of the states working to exclude the wrong kind of voters are pretty solid Trump anyhow.



Quote:

Originally Posted by The Atheist (Post 12720644)
And a YUGE win with Mexico.

Someone caved in to his bully tactics. That will count for a lot among the fat bullies - people I believe are more likely to vote for the fat bully.

I need to look a little further. I'm seeing suggestions that Mexico had already agreed to this stuff and Trump just set it up so it would like like a big win.

JoeMorgue 8th June 2019 03:37 PM

In politics "looking" like you are winning is winning.

Cabbage 8th June 2019 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Atheist (Post 12720644)
And a YUGE win with Mexico.

Someone caved in to his bully tactics. That will count for a lot among the fat bullies - people I believe are more likely to vote for the fat bully.

LMFAO!! Adorable!

Elagabalus 8th June 2019 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper (Post 12720188)
....Serious question: why do you believe this? His ratings aren't better than in 2016, and he only won that one -- barely -- because like with Brexit, his opponents didn't vote in large enough numbers.

I agree that this time the opponents will come out and vote (and not listen to Jimmy Dore:thumbsup:) however, that still leaves the mush-middle problem as stated above.

Elagabalus 8th June 2019 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trebuchet (Post 12720655)
Disagree on 2. Trump won several states the Dems thought they had in hand by very small margins. Hopefully they won't make that mistake again.
Also on 5. Most of the states working to exclude the wrong kind of voters are pretty solid Trump anyhow.





I need to look a little further. I'm seeing suggestions that Mexico had already agreed to this stuff and Trump just set it up so it would like like a big win.

Already answered.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elagabalus (Post 12720660)
I agree that this time the opponents will come out and vote (and not listen to Jimmy Dore:thumbsup:) however, that still leaves the mush-middle problem as stated above.

And can we stop with the triumphalism? Pretty please? I've got a thing about it. It's like when I was younger and I couldn't find something and I would ask some of the family to help look and my brother would yell out "Here it isn't!" I always knew that I wasn't going to find it after that!


Save it till the election is over.

Lurch 8th June 2019 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Atheist (Post 12720619)
1 He is a sitting president, and they rarely get beaten.
2 The same states he won in 2016 will vote for him again.
3 Republican voter analysis/AI is more advanced than the Dems.
4 The Dems will pick Biden, the easiest attack-ad target of them all.
5 Voter de-registration will peak in the marginal states and will exclude large numbers of black & Latino votes.
6 Trump fatigue. Voters have been hearing for 3 years about what a terrible person Trump is, yet he hasn't started any new wars and the economy is sailing nicely.

A sitting Prez might indeed rarely enough get unseated. Except, and brace for this one...

...When challenged in a primary that goes longer than a particular State's (I can't reliably recall which--New Hampshire?) voting, the incumbent *never* won.

Bill Weld has only to be the chigger in Trump's hide for a while and, if past is prologue, Trump is out and the Dems are in.

Safe-Keeper 8th June 2019 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elagabalus (Post 12720660)
I agree that this time the opponents will come out and vote (and not listen to Jimmy Dore:thumbsup:) however, that still leaves the mush-middle problem as stated above.

Good points all.

Another problem, as also demonstrated here on this forum, is that lots of his followers live in a litteral post-fact bubble where Trump defeats are simply rebranded as victories. The Mueller report completely exonerated him. Mexico caved to his demands.

His encouragement of fake news, echo chambers, and lies is one of the ways Trump is causing lasting damage.

The Atheist 8th June 2019 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lurch (Post 12720732)
...Trump is out and the Dems are in.

That easy?

I'll believe it when I see it. Meanwhile, even money looks a very good bet.

Heck, I know a couple of Democrats who have been dumb enough to bet me $100 Trump won't last his first term, and I'd give that at about 50:1 right now.

Minoosh 8th June 2019 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 12720192)
Those who love President Trump will definitely get out and vote. Some of those who hate him may be so sickened that they simply cannot bring themselves to vote Democrat, especially if the candidate is another party veteran whose time has simply come around (Warren, Biden, Sanders and so on...).

That doesn't make sense. People sickened by Trump aren't going to have a problem voting for a Democrat IMO. And if it's a party stalwart, so what? There are worse things than having a career politician in office.

Tero 8th June 2019 07:48 PM

Other than the white guy problem
http://karireport.blogspot.com/2019/...e-for.html?m=1
There is no problem voting for Biden. But there is a problem with voters in general: they think voting does not matter. And they are even right. Lobbyists run the country. Just throw money at it.


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