Even if we take this as fact without taking into account how much public sector pensions have been depreciated, why is the problem that they get them rather than that the rest of us, who might once have expected similar, don't?

Thanks for that :thumbsup:

Because of how much they cost. I'm involved in a third sector organisation where pension contributions are now 20%+ of salaries for those who were TUPE'd across from the public sector.

Full disclosure - I'm a member of an LGPS pension scheme where IIRC I can take full pension if my job is restructured after the age of 55.

The “solution” to that is to make all employers make adequate payments into pension schemes, that we’ve let the private sector get away with externalising their costs isn’t a reason for the public service to lose their pension schemes. (Albeit that has already happened, look at the prison service for an example of how a good pension has been removed.)

I’ve always held that whilst there is a deficit in a company’s pension scheme no profit can be taken out via dividends or by officers of the company. And if a company can’t afford the pension scheme then it is obviously an unprofitable company and shouldn’t be supported by the tax payers.

Yeah, if it’s anything like Defra, that went around 2009. We had zero pay rise for 2 years, then 1% in 2011, 2012, and 2013. So by that point, you’d have had a 3.03% pay increase over what you were getting in 2008. In 2014 they brought in a new system which meant you got 1% if you were a strong performer, 0.5 for adequate, and 0 if on performance management measures. No increment for a long, long time.

There was once a milestone system by which if you had been in the same grade for a certain number of years you got a pay rise bigger than the norm, but I never got close, and I think that went around the same time (2009). I was lucky in that I got a job where I had an allowance to compensate for not being paid overtime, then another where I was posted overseas (it still cost me money, even with some allowances, due to a stingy COLA rate, but that’s a different story).

Asylum seekers were housed in cramped and filthy conditions at a military barracks, inspectors have said.

Some of the most vulnerable people were living in a "decrepit" block unfit for habitation at Kent's Napier Barracks.

The Independent Chief Inspector of Borders and Immigration and Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Prisons also visited Penally Camp in Pembrokeshire. They said both sites were "run-down".

The Home Office said it had instructed service providers to make improvements.

Ms Patel, who has repeatedly defended the use of Napier, last month said: "This site has previously accommodated our brave soldiers and army personnel. It is an insult to say that it is not good enough for these individuals"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-56325360

Some of the blocks had been empty and disused for years even before the army left.

Does she ever describe them as “people”?

Why would she?

Exactly ! They can't vote, and if they eventually become able to do so, they're unlikely to vote Conservative ;)

They might not be getting them all now.

They are on about cancelling them and going for a new British plane that may be available from 2030.

Apparently it's going to be better and cheaper than the F35.

I'm sure I remember press reports of the "scandal" of the state of much armed services accomodation. Maybe a few decades ago.

Are we going to be getting some old Harriers from the USMC ?

edited to add.....

Apparently not, it's a new plane called the Tempest.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/uk-r...by-65-percent/

That the barracks had previously been used by 'brave soldiers and army personnel' in the past says nothing about their suitability or condition now.
It doesn't even say anything about their condition when they were used to house 'brave soldiers and army personnel'.
There is a reason they were abandoned, parts of the site hadn't been used for decades.

Tempest fighterOff topic but they are on about replacing the Typhoon with the new Tempest' stealth fighter from 2035.
There is talk of not bothering with any more F35s other than enough to keep one carrier at sea and jumping to Tempest for the RAF. 2bn earmarked for initial development already.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BAE_Systems_Tempest

Actually I think it is quite a good idea of the HS, it will help acclimatise them to the conditions they can expect in a post-Brexit UK!

Well if there's one thing that the MOD is brilliant at, it's delivering big programmes on budget and ahead of schedule.:rolleyes:

And has the advantage of making them less dependant on the US, which has conclusively proven it cannot be trusted internationally.

It will be a huge money pit that is unreliable, over complicated and under performs.

There is criticism of the F-35 for cost. That will be nothing compared to this.
Look at the typhoon and before that the Tornado.
Why do we expect this new aircraft with it's 'energy weapon, ai, pilotless drone capability and everything else they could think of rammed in to it will be any better?
We will be able to afford about five of them.

Nimrod AEW is another good example.
Billions sunk init and it never worked.
It's taken us 35 years to sort out L85 Rifle and we had to get H&K to do that.
It started off in the late 40s as the EM-1 a good bullpup design that was liked by those that tested it.
This was abandoned and a bullpup conversion done to an AR-18 was made to save costs and development .
It was rushed in to service without proper development in a cost cutting form to boost the value of the Royal Small Arms Factory which the govt wanted to privatise.
It was a disaster from the start and in 2000 was given to H&K to fix. They virtually rebuilt it.
In the end it has cost far more money than throwing it away and buying M-16s or Steyrs or something from H&K.

Has she ever visited, let alone lived, in a UK military facility? Even a well maintained one?

That'd be the Tempest that doesn't exist yet as other than a giant plastic model? The Tempest that is blessed with not only BAE and QinetiQ, but also direct MoD involvement in the development?
:eek::boggled::eye-poppi:jaw-dropp:covereyes

Yes it's going to have stealth, optional manning, swarming drones, directed-energy weapons, hypersonic weapons, a completely virtual cockpit display in the pilots helmet visor and cost less than the Typhoon and F-35 and start coming in to service in 9 years time.

From the same people that abandoned upgrading the the Challenger because it was going to cost more than buying brand new tanks from Germany or the USA.
Same with the Warrior AFV. Not that they haven't spent about 40 million on 'studies'

Will it have antigravity?

Will it do test and trace?

Yet another reinvention of the wheel - which like so many of Boris Johnson's schemes will simply never happen.

Are we getting that from an aircraft manufacturer or has a member of their cabinet fast tracked their ex-Pub Landlord into the contract?

I think she should. Preferably with the rest of the Cabinate & a few of their backers. A period of about ten years seems about an appropriate minimum.

One that has been left standing empty for a few years and is now being run by a private contracting company that put in the lowest bid.

BAE Systems have put together a Panavia style consortium to develop and build the aircraft.
Getting a technology demonstrator to fly would be the easy bit, developing the avionics and weapons and AI stuff, that'll be the hard bit.

In 1986 a technology demonstrator called EAP was flying, but the Eurofighter Typhoon didn't enter service until 2003.

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I AGREE

It's QuinteQ and BAE so basically the latter.

It took seven years to get from mock-up and specs (the stage "Tempest" is at now) to EAP; eight more years to get to prototype; and nine further years to get to initial batch production. Oh and three more to IOC in squadron service.
And they're talking about "Tempest", incorporating far more, and more complex technologies, to be in service in nine years?

There are not enough :rolleyes: to express my opinion of that.

They're building on some work form the "Replica" project which underwent 5 years of development work in the 1990's, and the test bed model of Replica was spotted in 2014 at Warton, but still, it's an extremely ambitious timeline.

It's the same magical thinking that had the government spending hundreds of millions on a bankrupt satellite company with entirely the wrong type of satellite. :mad:

It would be interesting to know the financial links between current cabinet MPs and BAE Systems.

Exactly. And QuinteQ is involved, so it'll be an expensive disaster.
Plus you can kiss goodbye to substantial EU or US assistance; Britain has demonstrated a distinct lack of trustworthiness.

Grant Shapps says that a bridge is still being considered to link NI and Scotland.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ireland-tunnel

That could be a minefield...

I see Gove's failure to deliver on his promise to ban electric-shock collars for animals is back in the news.

You do? Maybe a link to where you saw it?

Here for example. The furor over the YouTube videos seems to have reminded people of Gove's promise to ban the devices in the UK (excluding Wales) back in '18.

I think they should still be available for specific purposes. Like SortedFood "Shock The Chef" episodes!