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-   -   Roll Call: What do you think happened on 9/11, and why? (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=185004)

Oystein 8th September 2010 02:24 AM

Roll Call: What do you think happened on 9/11, and why?
 
Hey everybody,

Rule 1: No discussion, please!
I don't want to debate anybody's opinion, so please refrain entirely from quoting anybody, calling them names, demanding evidence etc.
Only exception: Requests to clear up statements you did not understand.

I would like everybody, debunkers and truthers alike, to state as consisely as possible your working hypothesis of what happened on 9/11, who did it, how they did it, and why they did it. You may indicate which parts of your hypothesis you consider hard fact, and which you only guess or are unsure about.

Here's a little checklist of the elements you might want to consider:
- 4 civilian planes - real? hijacked? remote controlled? crashed where?
- Twin Towers - plane crashes? Cause of collapse?
- WTC7 - cause of collapse?
- Pentagon - plane crash? Missile?
- Shanksville - plane? Shot down?
- If Al Quaeda: Do they hate our freedom? Mindless killers? Is it about Israel? Did they want the wars?
- If the government: Who was involved? Bush? Cheney? Any foreign agents? MIHOP or LIHOP?
- What about the investigations? 9/11 Commission? NIST? FEMA? FBI? Need a new one? if so, what objectives? Who should chair it?

Quad4_72 8th September 2010 02:31 AM

I refer you to the 9/11 Commission Report and the findings of NIST.

Oystein 8th September 2010 03:02 AM

I go first:

I am convinced, and have no doubt, that 4 civilian airplanes were hijacked and intentionally flown into 3 buildings. One crashed near Shanksville.

I am convinced, and have no doubt, that all the physical damage and loss of life on that day were a result of the plane crashes and the fires they started. No bombs, no additional incendiaries, no controlled demolition

I am convinced, and have no doubt, that the hijackers commaded the cockpits and flew the planes. No remote control.

About flights 11, 175 and 77, I have nothing additional to say.
I am certain, but allow residual doubt, that flight 93 crashed because its passengers resisted and violently iterferred, thus making the hijacker-pilot lose control and crash. No shoot-down to be sure.

I am convinced, and have no doubt, that the hijackings caught FAA and the military units that were on alert to defend the airspace by surprise, that they did everything they could to handle the situation, but were unable to do anything about the 4 planes. The main reasons for this inability were: Too little time; no contingency plans for such situations, resources too thinly spread; inadequate sharing of information between civilian and military agencies due to inadequate or incompatible technology.

I am fairly certain that some agencies of the US goverment had in their possession information that, if assembled and interpreted lucidly ahead of time, might have enabled them to intervene and bust the terrorists before 9/11. I can't judge fairly if the failure to do so is due to avoidable incompetence, or if the odds of finding such information in a sea of data are just prohibitively slim. I do not believe that anyone in these agencies knew of the plan and consciously decided not to interfere. I allow for the remote possibility that there are nefarious elements in the agencies who might be so inclined.

I am certain that the hijackers were a group of 19 or 20 Arabs, mostly from Saudi-Arabia, who were recruited by Al Quaeda, had the blessing of OBL. Among their leaders were KSM and Mohammed Atta. I admit that there is a little wiggle room for doubt, as KSM was abducted in secrecy and tortured. I want to take information presented by secret services with a good grain of salt.

I believe the suicide terrorists were personally motivated mainly by a general feeling of hatred and powerlessness towards the USA and the secualar west. Grievances in connection with the situation in Palestine, and other middle-eastern issues may also individually have placed a role. They were mostly devout muslims of a radical provenance who believed the preaching that they will go to paradise if killed in action against non-believers.

I believe OBL and Al Quaeda hoped to lure the USA into a violent and costly reaction. Secondary goals may have been to gain prestige and attract recruits and other support from muslims around the world, position Al Quaeda as the leading islamist resistance group, or stir up popular uprisings in Arab lands against regimes that Al Quaeda opposes (the monarchies of Saudi-Arabia and Jordan for example, or the Israeli occupations).

I am satisfied with the forensic investigations. They were humongous tasks, had do dive deep into unknown territories, and by and large the efforts were carried out honestly, competently and with sufficient thoroughness. With hindsight, some minor weaknesses may be lamented, such as the failure to investigate WTC7 with the same diligence as WTC1 and 2 were. It is my understanding that the debris of the twin towers was investigated more thoroughly, which undoubtfully is due to its containing so many human remains. There is no foul play.

I think the 9/11 Commission did a great job.

I believe the government, and some agencies thereof, have been too hesitant to allow reviews of their roles in desaster management and preparedness.

I lament that no co-ordinated debate has taken place about the political implications and the fall-out of the attacks. 9/11 has been abused by the Bush administration to further unrelated and sweeping agendas to the detriment of the American people.

ozeco41 8th September 2010 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oystein (Post 6309864)
I go first:

I am convinced, and have no doubt, that 4 civilian airplanes were hijacked and intentionally flown into 3 buildings. One crashed near Shanksville.

I am convinced, and have no doubt, that all the physical damage and loss of life on that day were a result of the plane crashes and the fires they started. No bombs, no additional incendiaries, no controlled demolition

I am convinced, and have no doubt, that the hijackers commaded the cockpits and flew the planes. No remote control.

About flights 11, 175 and 77, I have nothing additional to say.
I am certain, but allow residual doubt, that flight 93 crashed because its passengers resisted and violently iterferred, thus making the hijacker-pilot lose control and crash. No shoot-down to be sure....

Fully my opinions on those matters.

On the remaining matters I am in broad agreement with the "situation" assessment parts of the statements but not as firmly decided on the "reason" parts.

I can give more detailed explanations later if it seems appropriate. For information I am a British born Australian citizen with civil/structural engineering qualifications and military engineering/demolitions training.

Sabretooth 8th September 2010 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oystein (Post 6309864)
I go first:

I am convinced, and have no doubt, that 4 civilian airplanes were hijacked and intentionally flown into 3 buildings. One crashed near Shanksville.

I am convinced, and have no doubt, that all the physical damage and loss of life on that day were a result of the plane crashes and the fires they started. No bombs, no additional incendiaries, no controlled demolition

I am convinced, and have no doubt, that the hijackers commaded the cockpits and flew the planes. No remote control.

About flights 11, 175 and 77, I have nothing additional to say.
I am certain, but allow residual doubt, that flight 93 crashed because its passengers resisted and violently iterferred, thus making the hijacker-pilot lose control and crash. No shoot-down to be sure.

I am convinced, and have no doubt, that the hijackings caught FAA and the military units that were on alert to defend the airspace by surprise, that they did everything they could to handle the situation, but were unable to do anything about the 4 planes. The main reasons for this inability were: Too little time; no contingency plans for such situations, resources too thinly spread; inadequate sharing of information between civilian and military agencies due to inadequate or incompatible technology.

I am fairly certain that some agencies of the US goverment had in their possession information that, if assembled and interpreted lucidly ahead of time, might have enabled them to intervene and bust the terrorists before 9/11. I can't judge fairly if the failure to do so is due to avoidable incompetence, or if the odds of finding such information in a sea of data are just prohibitively slim. I do not believe that anyone in these agencies knew of the plan and consciously decided not to interfere. I allow for the remote possibility that there are nefarious elements in the agencies who might be so inclined.

I am certain that the hijackers were a group of 19 or 20 Arabs, mostly from Saudi-Arabia, who were recruited by Al Quaeda, had the blessing of OBL. Among their leaders were KSM and Mohammed Atta. I admit that there is a little wiggle room for doubt, as KSM was abducted in secrecy and tortured. I want to take information presented by secret services with a good grain of salt.

I believe the suicide terrorists were personally motivated mainly by a general feeling of hatred and powerlessness towards the USA and the secualar west. Grievances in connection with the situation in Palestine, and other middle-eastern issues may also individually have placed a role. They were mostly devout muslims of a radical provenance who believed the preaching that they will go to paradise if killed in action against non-believers.

I believe OBL and Al Quaeda hoped to lure the USA into a violent and costly reaction. Secondary goals may have been to gain prestige and attract recruits and other support from muslims around the world, position Al Quaeda as the leading islamist resistance group, or stir up popular uprisings in Arab lands against regimes that Al Quaeda opposes (the monarchies of Saudi-Arabia and Jordan for example, or the Israeli occupations).

I am satisfied with the forensic investigations. They were humongous tasks, had do dive deep into unknown territories, and by and large the efforts were carried out honestly, competently and with sufficient thoroughness. With hindsight, some minor weaknesses may be lamented, such as the failure to investigate WTC7 with the same diligence as WTC1 and 2 were. It is my understanding that the debris of the twin towers was investigated more thoroughly, which undoubtfully is due to its containing so many human remains. There is no foul play.

I think the 9/11 Commission did a great job.

I believe the government, and some agencies thereof, have been too hesitant to allow reviews of their roles in desaster management and preparedness.

I lament that no co-ordinated debate has taken place about the political implications and the fall-out of the attacks. 9/11 has been abused by the Bush administration to further unrelated and sweeping agendas to the detriment of the American people.

I agree with every word, except the highlighted portion.

Based on the CVR transcripts, I believe the hijackers intentionally steered FL93 into the ground to prevent the passengers from taking back control over the plane.

A minor detail...but a non-shootdown none the less.

willhaven 8th September 2010 12:51 PM

1) 19 crazy religious nuts with a political agenda.
2) 4 airliners.
3) Nearly 3,000 casualties.
4) Lots of structural damage due to airliner impacts and fire.

Why? Blowback. Meddling in the affairs of others can have consequences. Did we deserve it? No. Should we have been wondering why they hate us? Of course not. We should know exactly why they hate us.

If we had a policy of non-intervention and simply humanitarian aid to the middle east, it's unlikely that 9/11 or similar attacks would have happened. At least not with the same severity, frequency and acceptance by some (small number of) Muslims.

jaydeehess 8th September 2010 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oystein (Post 6309781)

- 4 civilian planes - real? hijacked? remote controlled? crashed where?

Hijacked by 19 Islamic militants
Quote:

- Twin Towers - plane crashes? Cause of collapse?
Fire damage compounded by significant impact damage and the long span construction of the structures.
Quote:

- WTC7 - cause of collapse?
Fire damage compounded by several specifics of the structure's design.
Quote:

- Pentagon - plane crash? Missile?
Plane crash
Quote:

- Shanksville - plane? Shot down?
Crashed jetliner
Quote:

- If Al Quaeda: Do they hate our freedom? Mindless killers? Is it about Israel? Did they want the wars?
It was Al-Qada's oft stated plan to rid the Islamic Holy Land of western, non-Islamic influences.
Quote:

- What about the investigations? 9/11 Commission? NIST? FEMA? FBI? Need a new one? if so, what objectives? Who should chair it?
NIST could go into greater detail about some specifics (ie. did a floor girder get pushed off its col 79 seat by thermal expansion or pulled off during contraction in WTC 7) But is it worth the added expense? IMO, no.

Gord_in_Toronto 8th September 2010 01:05 PM

No need for me to post here. It's all been said. What a great place the JREFF is!

:th:

Dog Town 8th September 2010 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willhaven (Post 6311393)

If we had a policy of non-intervention and simply humanitarian aid to the middle east, it's unlikely that 9/11 or similar attacks would have happened.

First off, I agree with most of what others posted already. No big changes need to be addressed.

Considering the whole reason OBL hated the US was for being on Saudi soil, and not his fighters for hire (got his widdle feelings hurt). While all we were doing was helping out Kuwait, and keeping Saddam from even thinking about entering the House of Saud Kingdom. F-him, we did what we should have done!

Sorry broke rule one!

9/11 Chewy Defense 8th September 2010 01:49 PM

I agree with what's been said too.

Why do I think that's what happened? Because we need to keep the reality that events transpired & were caused by terrorists. And also to keep those retarded Truthers at bay, with evidence to prove them wrong at every turn.

MG1962 8th September 2010 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dog Town (Post 6311603)
First off, I agree with most of what others posted already. No big changes need to be addressed.

Considering the whole reason OBL hated the US was for being on Saudi soil, and not his fighters for hire (got his widdle feelings hurt). While all we were doing was helping out Kuwait, and keeping Saddam from even thinking about entering the House of Saud Kingdom. F-him, we did what we should have done!

Sorry broke rule one!

What he/she said.

Osama - anytime you want to have a policy debate, I have a lovely softball bat with your name on it waiting

tsig 8th September 2010 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto (Post 6311451)
No need for me to post here. It's all been said. What a great place the JREFF is!

:th:

What's the yellow F for?

tsig 8th September 2010 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oystein (Post 6309864)
I go first:

I am convinced, and have no doubt, that 4 civilian airplanes were hijacked and intentionally flown into 3 buildings. One crashed near Shanksville.

I am convinced, and have no doubt, that all the physical damage and loss of life on that day were a result of the plane crashes and the fires they started. No bombs, no additional incendiaries, no controlled demolition

I am convinced, and have no doubt, that the hijackers commaded the cockpits and flew the planes. No remote control.

About flights 11, 175 and 77, I have nothing additional to say.
I am certain, but allow residual doubt, that flight 93 crashed because its passengers resisted and violently iterferred, thus making the hijacker-pilot lose control and crash. No shoot-down to be sure.

I am convinced, and have no doubt, that the hijackings caught FAA and the military units that were on alert to defend the airspace by surprise, that they did everything they could to handle the situation, but were unable to do anything about the 4 planes. The main reasons for this inability were: Too little time; no contingency plans for such situations, resources too thinly spread; inadequate sharing of information between civilian and military agencies due to inadequate or incompatible technology.

I am fairly certain that some agencies of the US goverment had in their possession information that, if assembled and interpreted lucidly ahead of time, might have enabled them to intervene and bust the terrorists before 9/11. I can't judge fairly if the failure to do so is due to avoidable incompetence, or if the odds of finding such information in a sea of data are just prohibitively slim. I do not believe that anyone in these agencies knew of the plan and consciously decided not to interfere. I allow for the remote possibility that there are nefarious elements in the agencies who might be so inclined.

I am certain that the hijackers were a group of 19 or 20 Arabs, mostly from Saudi-Arabia, who were recruited by Al Quaeda, had the blessing of OBL. Among their leaders were KSM and Mohammed Atta. I admit that there is a little wiggle room for doubt, as KSM was abducted in secrecy and tortured. I want to take information presented by secret services with a good grain of salt.

I believe the suicide terrorists were personally motivated mainly by a general feeling of hatred and powerlessness towards the USA and the secualar west. Grievances in connection with the situation in Palestine, and other middle-eastern issues may also individually have placed a role. They were mostly devout muslims of a radical provenance who believed the preaching that they will go to paradise if killed in action against non-believers.

I believe OBL and Al Quaeda hoped to lure the USA into a violent and costly reaction. Secondary goals may have been to gain prestige and attract recruits and other support from muslims around the world, position Al Quaeda as the leading islamist resistance group, or stir up popular uprisings in Arab lands against regimes that Al Quaeda opposes (the monarchies of Saudi-Arabia and Jordan for example, or the Israeli occupations).

I am satisfied with the forensic investigations. They were humongous tasks, had do dive deep into unknown territories, and by and large the efforts were carried out honestly, competently and with sufficient thoroughness. With hindsight, some minor weaknesses may be lamented, such as the failure to investigate WTC7 with the same diligence as WTC1 and 2 were. It is my understanding that the debris of the twin towers was investigated more thoroughly, which undoubtfully is due to its containing so many human remains. There is no foul play.

I think the 9/11 Commission did a great job.

I believe the government, and some agencies thereof, have been too hesitant to allow reviews of their roles in desaster management and preparedness.

I lament that no co-ordinated debate has taken place about the political implications and the fall-out of the attacks. 9/11 has been abused by the Bush administration to further unrelated and sweeping agendas to the detriment of the American people.

Yep

Spindrift 8th September 2010 02:00 PM

4 planes were holograms

Super nanothermite was planted in WTC 1 & 2 when it was built.

WTC-7 was rigged to explode when the.....


Oh, I can't even type this stuff as a joke. It's so absurd it makes my brain hurt.



I agree with Oystein

Sword_Of_Truth 8th September 2010 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oystein (Post 6309864)
I go first:

I am convinced, and have no doubt, that 4 civilian airplanes were hijacked and intentionally flown into 3 buildings. One crashed near Shanksville.

I am convinced, and have no doubt, that all the physical damage and loss of life on that day were a result of the plane crashes and the fires they started. No bombs, no additional incendiaries, no controlled demolition

I am convinced, and have no doubt, that the hijackers commaded the cockpits and flew the planes. No remote control.

About flights 11, 175 and 77, I have nothing additional to say.
I am certain, but allow residual doubt, that flight 93 crashed because its passengers resisted and violently iterferred, thus making the hijacker-pilot lose control and crash. No shoot-down to be sure.

I am convinced, and have no doubt, that the hijackings caught FAA and the military units that were on alert to defend the airspace by surprise, that they did everything they could to handle the situation, but were unable to do anything about the 4 planes. The main reasons for this inability were: Too little time; no contingency plans for such situations, resources too thinly spread; inadequate sharing of information between civilian and military agencies due to inadequate or incompatible technology.

I am fairly certain that some agencies of the US goverment had in their possession information that, if assembled and interpreted lucidly ahead of time, might have enabled them to intervene and bust the terrorists before 9/11. I can't judge fairly if the failure to do so is due to avoidable incompetence, or if the odds of finding such information in a sea of data are just prohibitively slim. I do not believe that anyone in these agencies knew of the plan and consciously decided not to interfere. I allow for the remote possibility that there are nefarious elements in the agencies who might be so inclined.

I am certain that the hijackers were a group of 19 or 20 Arabs, mostly from Saudi-Arabia, who were recruited by Al Quaeda, had the blessing of OBL. Among their leaders were KSM and Mohammed Atta. I admit that there is a little wiggle room for doubt, as KSM was abducted in secrecy and tortured. I want to take information presented by secret services with a good grain of salt.

I believe the suicide terrorists were personally motivated mainly by a general feeling of hatred and powerlessness towards the USA and the secualar west. Grievances in connection with the situation in Palestine, and other middle-eastern issues may also individually have placed a role. They were mostly devout muslims of a radical provenance who believed the preaching that they will go to paradise if killed in action against non-believers.

I believe OBL and Al Quaeda hoped to lure the USA into a violent and costly reaction. Secondary goals may have been to gain prestige and attract recruits and other support from muslims around the world, position Al Quaeda as the leading islamist resistance group, or stir up popular uprisings in Arab lands against regimes that Al Quaeda opposes (the monarchies of Saudi-Arabia and Jordan for example, or the Israeli occupations).

I am satisfied with the forensic investigations. They were humongous tasks, had do dive deep into unknown territories, and by and large the efforts were carried out honestly, competently and with sufficient thoroughness. With hindsight, some minor weaknesses may be lamented, such as the failure to investigate WTC7 with the same diligence as WTC1 and 2 were. It is my understanding that the debris of the twin towers was investigated more thoroughly, which undoubtfully is due to its containing so many human remains. There is no foul play.

I think the 9/11 Commission did a great job.

I believe the government, and some agencies thereof, have been too hesitant to allow reviews of their roles in desaster management and preparedness.

I lament that no co-ordinated debate has taken place about the political implications and the fall-out of the attacks. 9/11 has been abused by the Bush administration to further unrelated and sweeping agendas to the detriment of the American people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dog Town (Post 6311603)
First off, I agree with most of what others posted already. No big changes need to be addressed.

Considering the whole reason OBL hated the US was for being on Saudi soil, and not his fighters for hire (got his widdle feelings hurt). While all we were doing was helping out Kuwait, and keeping Saddam from even thinking about entering the House of Saud Kingdom. F-him, we did what we should have done!

Sorry broke rule one!

Dittos (not breakin rule 1).

EDIT I meant Oysteins rule 1. Only in a world run by truthers would saying the above be a criminal matter.

Thunder 8th September 2010 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oystein (Post 6309781)
Hey everybody,

Rule 1: No discussion, please!

haa!! good luck. this is a discussion forum bud.

JihadJane 8th September 2010 04:20 PM

I don't know.

T.A.M. 8th September 2010 04:31 PM

i dunno nuttin less i sees it wit me own eyes...cause everyone else is tellin me lies!!!

Wait...was that a black helicopter.

TAM;)

leftysergeant 8th September 2010 04:37 PM

Nineteen religious whackadoodles went kamikaze and the people who were supposed to have defended against it got caught with their pants down and serious design problems with a few high-rise buildings were revealed in the resulting fires.

The resulting destruction pushed a few sociopaths over the edge and caused such wide-spread PTSD that utterly absurd behavior and ideation became almost normal.

Gord_in_Toronto 8th September 2010 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsig (Post 6311648)
What's the yellow F for?

Ffforum. :cool:

Lyrandar 8th September 2010 05:29 PM

I agree with Oystein.

grandmastershek 8th September 2010 08:25 PM

Dylan Avery & Co, Alex Jones, Steven Jones, Griffin, & Gage snuck inside all three buildings and cut all vertical columns down to 1/16 of an inch with a sawz-all. They then attached M80's to the columns and ignited them using GI Joe walkie talkies which they got in by dressing as Santa the previous Christmas season. And somehow Seth Macfarlane was involved because he just happened to miss his flight.

Hey...cui bono?

roger 8th September 2010 08:29 PM

crazy mofos with box cutters.

Dragonrock 9th September 2010 10:13 AM

19 Terrorists, 4 planes, crashed, fires, structural failure, buildings fall, CTists feel impotent and scared and want something to make them feel empowered so they twist the facts to fit their bigoted views.

That's what happened.

uke2se 9th September 2010 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oystein (Post 6309864)
I go first:

I am convinced, and have no doubt, that 4 civilian airplanes were hijacked and intentionally flown into 3 buildings. One crashed near Shanksville.

I am convinced, and have no doubt, that all the physical damage and loss of life on that day were a result of the plane crashes and the fires they started. No bombs, no additional incendiaries, no controlled demolition

I am convinced, and have no doubt, that the hijackers commaded the cockpits and flew the planes. No remote control.

About flights 11, 175 and 77, I have nothing additional to say.
I am certain, but allow residual doubt, that flight 93 crashed because its passengers resisted and violently iterferred, thus making the hijacker-pilot lose control and crash. No shoot-down to be sure.

I am convinced, and have no doubt, that the hijackings caught FAA and the military units that were on alert to defend the airspace by surprise, that they did everything they could to handle the situation, but were unable to do anything about the 4 planes. The main reasons for this inability were: Too little time; no contingency plans for such situations, resources too thinly spread; inadequate sharing of information between civilian and military agencies due to inadequate or incompatible technology.

I am fairly certain that some agencies of the US goverment had in their possession information that, if assembled and interpreted lucidly ahead of time, might have enabled them to intervene and bust the terrorists before 9/11. I can't judge fairly if the failure to do so is due to avoidable incompetence, or if the odds of finding such information in a sea of data are just prohibitively slim. I do not believe that anyone in these agencies knew of the plan and consciously decided not to interfere. I allow for the remote possibility that there are nefarious elements in the agencies who might be so inclined.

I am certain that the hijackers were a group of 19 or 20 Arabs, mostly from Saudi-Arabia, who were recruited by Al Quaeda, had the blessing of OBL. Among their leaders were KSM and Mohammed Atta. I admit that there is a little wiggle room for doubt, as KSM was abducted in secrecy and tortured. I want to take information presented by secret services with a good grain of salt.

I believe the suicide terrorists were personally motivated mainly by a general feeling of hatred and powerlessness towards the USA and the secualar west. Grievances in connection with the situation in Palestine, and other middle-eastern issues may also individually have placed a role. They were mostly devout muslims of a radical provenance who believed the preaching that they will go to paradise if killed in action against non-believers.

I believe OBL and Al Quaeda hoped to lure the USA into a violent and costly reaction. Secondary goals may have been to gain prestige and attract recruits and other support from muslims around the world, position Al Quaeda as the leading islamist resistance group, or stir up popular uprisings in Arab lands against regimes that Al Quaeda opposes (the monarchies of Saudi-Arabia and Jordan for example, or the Israeli occupations).

I am satisfied with the forensic investigations. They were humongous tasks, had do dive deep into unknown territories, and by and large the efforts were carried out honestly, competently and with sufficient thoroughness. With hindsight, some minor weaknesses may be lamented, such as the failure to investigate WTC7 with the same diligence as WTC1 and 2 were. It is my understanding that the debris of the twin towers was investigated more thoroughly, which undoubtfully is due to its containing so many human remains. There is no foul play.

I think the 9/11 Commission did a great job.

I believe the government, and some agencies thereof, have been too hesitant to allow reviews of their roles in desaster management and preparedness.

I lament that no co-ordinated debate has taken place about the political implications and the fall-out of the attacks. 9/11 has been abused by the Bush administration to further unrelated and sweeping agendas to the detriment of the American people.

This.

fezzic 9th September 2010 11:34 AM

I agree pretty much with Oystein's posting as regards the events and circumstances of 9/11/01 and with Sword of Truth's slight modification thereof.

9/11-investigator 9th September 2010 04:43 PM

http://how911wasdone.blogspot.com

- Flight school trails laid by Mossad agents.
- 4 real civilian planes; crew + passengers killed in a matter of seconds by Kolokol-1 or similar incapacitating agent stored in cylinders stored in air ducts and opened by timer mechanism some 20 minutes after take-off; remote control takes over. Updated flight path send to planes by flight controller Pete Zalewski.
- WTC-1/2 hit by planes; towers collapse due to controlled demolition;
- Dancing Israelis 'documenting the event' were anticipating the attack and celebrating. Reason celebration: their mission was accomplished.
- Zionist Jerome Hauer ready to 'explain' situation to global public.
- Pentagon: internal explosion + fly-over scenario; F77 missed target and was shot over the Atlantic. Hastily unplanned confiscation of Pentagon videos by the FBI was hence necessary.
- F93 was shot down due to unforseen delay of 41 minutes by col. Rick Gibney. Gibney confirmed that everybody on board was dead. Target of F93 was not Washington but WTC7. That explains the otherwise inexplicable controlled demolition of that building.
- Perps were CIA + Mossad (as Italian ex-president Cossiga said)
- Goal: internally 'Sovietization' of the US and externally terrorism meme used to intervene in the Middle East.
- 9/11 will be solved by the global internet community and will bring down ZOG-USA.

beachnut 9th September 2010 04:53 PM

1. terrorists killed pilots
2. terrorists flew planes into buildings
3. flight 93 passengers figured out 911 and stopped terrorists
why did they do it? UBL promised he would kill Americans when he could. He warned all of us in the 90s, and he is still working on making his promise good. Terrorist 75 percent.

Then a bunch of dirt dumb paranoid conspiracy theorists and moron neoNAZIs made up delusional lies because the plot was too complex for them to grasp. Called themselves 911 truth, a movement without evidence. Why do these fringe idiots make up lies? They are too stupid to grasp reality. 911 truth 0 percent.

On 911 we have terrorists who can understand and carry out a simple plan, and paranoid conspiracy theorists who can't figure out 911 after 9 years.

fuelair 9th September 2010 04:56 PM

Covered it all above, well done , tied up and wish all the supporters of the terrorists and those like them a long slow death over a slow smoky fire.

Resume 9th September 2010 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beachnut (Post 6316210)
1. terrorists killed pilots
2. terrorists flew planes into buildings
3. flight 93 passengers figured out 911 and stopped terrorists
why did they do it? UBL promised he would kill Americans when he could. He warned all of us in the 90s, and he is still working on making his promise good. Terrorist 75 percent.

Then a bunch of dirt dumb paranoid conspiracy theorists and moron neoNAZIs made up delusional lies because the plot was too complex for them to grasp. Called themselves 911 truth, a movement without evidence. Why do these fringe idiots make up lies? They are too stupid to grasp reality. 911 truth 0 percent.

On 911 we have terrorists who can understand and carry out a simple plan, and paranoid conspiracy theorists who can't figure out 911 after 9 years.

Simple, elegant. This.

JihadJane 10th September 2010 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resume (Post 6316250)
Simple, elegant. This.

Ahem!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oystein (Post 6309781)

Rule 1: No discussion, please!


Rolfe 10th September 2010 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator (Post 6316178)
http://how911wasdone.blogspot.com

- Flight school trails laid by Mossad agents.
- 4 real civilian planes; crew + passengers killed in a matter of seconds by Kolokol-1 or similar incapacitating agent stored in cylinders stored in air ducts and opened by timer mechanism some 20 minutes after take-off; remote control takes over. Updated flight path send to planes by flight controller Pete Zalewski.
- WTC-1/2 hit by planes; towers collapse due to controlled demolition;
- Dancing Israelis 'documenting the event' were anticipating the attack and celebrating. Reason celebration: their mission was accomplished.
- Zionist Jerome Hauer ready to 'explain' situation to global public.
- Pentagon: internal explosion + fly-over scenario; F77 missed target and was shot over the Atlantic. Hastily unplanned confiscation of Pentagon videos by the FBI was hence necessary.
- F93 was shot down due to unforseen delay of 41 minutes by col. Rick Gibney. Gibney confirmed that everybody on board was dead. Target of F93 was not Washington but WTC7. That explains the otherwise inexplicable controlled demolition of that building.
- Perps were CIA + Mossad (as Italian ex-president Cossiga said)
- Goal: internally 'Sovietization' of the US and externally terrorism meme used to intervene in the Middle East.
- 9/11 will be solved by the global internet community and will bring down ZOG-USA.


OK, I get it, no discussion.

But somebody, please tell me this is a spoof before my head asplodes!

Rolfe.

SpitfireIX 10th September 2010 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rolfe (Post 6318228)
OK, I get it, no discussion.

But somebody, please tell me this is a spoof before my head asplodes!

Rolfe.


No, he really believes this. He also believes the holocaust didn't happen. Please, no further responses in this thread; if anyone wishes to respond, there are other threads available.

Greediguts 10th September 2010 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fezzic (Post 6315049)
I agree pretty much with Oystein's posting as regards the events and circumstances of 9/11/01 and with Sword of Truth's slight modification thereof.

This.

SpitfireIX 10th September 2010 08:47 AM

I agree with Oystein's comments, as qualified by sabretooth47.

Scott Jurgenson 10th September 2010 09:29 AM

Do the "Truthers" on this board, (Chris, Bill Smith, etc) really believe what they are saying? Or are they just 16 year old kids using their parents interwebz to get a rise out of rational thinking people such as the ones found here on JREF?

I'm almost 100 posts in and I still can't figure out if some of these ideas they spin are for real.

Ex: Bill's theory that building 7 was supposed to be the "Grand Finale" and oxygen tanks were supposed to let off a few seconds before impact from flight 93 which was heading for building 7 and the fire ball was going to be so massive it would be a great F U in our face...(as if two towers and the pentagon weren't enough).

I mean that's not a serious post right? I convince myself it's done just for a rise but who knows.

-Scotty

paloalto 10th September 2010 09:34 AM

RE: What actually happened on 9/11!
 
see link: http://www.democraticunderground.com...mesg_id=294127

From prior posts:

"Furthermore when the information first started filtering out that Bush knew much more than he was letting on and the horrific information that the intelligence agencies had known about Mihdhar and Hazmi for almost 21 months and did nothing to stop them or this attack, the big push to have a 9/11 Commission investigate the attacks on 9/11 and see why the US intelligence agencies had allowed these attacks to take place, gained momentum."


From another DU poster:

"You are actually claiming the intelligence agencies knew of this attack and did nothing? You are claiming they allowed the attacks to take place. Really? I assume you are aware there is zero evidence this is true. In fact everything I have ever read or watched regarding intelligence foreknowledge indicates they knew something was up, but had little in the way of specifics. If you are claiming this you need to provide proof they had specific foreknowledge."

I can hardly wait."

No I am not claiming that they did nothing, it is much worse than that. They first criminally with held material information from the FBI investigation into the Cole bombing. Then they shut down or blocked all FBI criminal investigations of al Qaeda terrorists found to be inside of the US, even when they knew that a huge al Qaeda attack was going to take place inside of the US.

Edited by LibraryLady:  Edited for Rule 4 and Rule 10

dafydd 10th September 2010 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Jurgenson (Post 6318534)
Do the "Truthers" on this board, (Chris, Bill Smith, etc) really believe what they are saying? Or are they just 16 year old kids using their parents interwebz to get a rise out of rational thinking people such as the ones found here on JREF?

I'm almost 100 posts in and I still can't figure out if some of these ideas they spin are for real.

Ex: Bill's theory that building 7 was supposed to be the "Grand Finale" and oxygen tanks were supposed to let off a few seconds before impact from flight 93 which was heading for building 7 and the fire ball was going to be so massive it would be a great F U in our face...(as if two towers and the pentagon weren't enough).

I mean that's not a serious post right? I convince myself it's done just for a rise but who knows.

-Scotty

Bill is a bad troll,Telltale Tom is a master parodist,the rest are nutcases.

Sabretooth 10th September 2010 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paloalto (Post 6318547)
:words:

tl:dr

You also failed Reading Comprehension 101.

The OP question is asking what you believe happened on 9/11, not before or after.

Marquis de Carabas 10th September 2010 11:49 AM

I woke up about 11:00AM, had some lunch, and went to teach a few classes. That evening, I probably had some beer, but I can't say for sure.


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