International Skeptics Forum

International Skeptics Forum (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/forumindex.php)
-   Non-USA & General Politics (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=98)
-   -   Covid-19 and Politics (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=342577)

William Parcher 11th March 2020 03:47 AM

Covid-19 and Politics
 
This is a general discussion thread for non-USA Politics as related to the Covid-19 Novel Coronavirus Pandemic.

So far most of the politics discussion is on Donald Trump in the USA Politics forum. But many other leaders and national staffs and policies could be discussed here.

The world is becoming infected at a rapid pace. Governments must act quickly and properly. Who is doing it right and who is doing it wrong?

Darat 11th March 2020 04:35 AM

Oh I know the answer to that one.

Doing it "right" (where right simply means controlling it as best as possible and nothing to do with whether it is right in terms of human rights etc.)

China
South Korea

And that is it.

Italy has acted too late and although are now taking more sensible steps in their state policy it doesn't seem that the policy is being enforced.

Darat 11th March 2020 04:37 AM

We've already got a health minister infected, another MP has gone into self quarantine as she had met her a few days ago.

BBC News - Coronavirus: Health minister Nadine Dorries tests positive
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51827356

I expect we will hear more given how much work and social interactions politicians tend to have.

The Great Zaganza 11th March 2020 04:38 AM

We won't really know until summer.

At this point, any country that manages to slow the spread to a drip that doesn't overwhelm hospital capacity has to be considered to be doing it "right".

SuburbanTurkey 11th March 2020 04:45 AM

It is remarkable how well China has managed the outbreak. They were first and were dealing with the most amount of uncertainty of all the major outbreak countries, but seem to be handling it the best.

It's not reassuring that this may be due to their authoritarian levels of social control. It is worrying that in nations with a strong respect for individual liberty, compelling people to actually follow social distancing protocols may be very difficult.

angrysoba 11th March 2020 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13016287)
Oh I know the answer to that one.

Doing it "right" (where right simply means controlling it as best as possible and nothing to do with whether it is right in terms of human rights etc.)

China
South Korea

And that is it.

Italy has acted too late and although are now taking more sensible steps in their state policy it doesn't seem that the policy is being enforced.

China gets half marks. Remember that they also punished a lot of people who spoke out early on, and they also seem to have disappeared some journalists.

But in addition to South Korea, whose drive through tests should be emulated by the rest of the world (I wonder if this is something that their version of the CDC had ready to go in advance), there is also Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong and Macao:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ow-coronavirus

Ulf Nereng 11th March 2020 10:46 AM

I'd say we won't know for sure untill next year when we can look at countries' health statistics for the year. My guess is that some countries will have an unexplained spike in deaths attributed to the flu...

P.J. Denyer 11th March 2020 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13016288)
We've already got a health minister infected, another MP has gone into self quarantine as she had met her a few days ago.

BBC News - Coronavirus: Health minister Nadine Dorries tests positive
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51827356

I expect we will hear more given how much work and social interactions politicians tend to have.

Obviously Dorries hasn't been praying hard enough.

Captain_Swoop 11th March 2020 12:42 PM

Mike Pence
@Mike_Pence
I'm pleased to report that at President @realDonaldTrump's request, all the insurance companies at the @WhiteHouse today agreed to waive all copays on coronavirus testing and extend coverage for coronavirus treatment in all of their benefit plans.

Captain_Swoop 11th March 2020 12:52 PM

Trump Tweets

I am fully prepared to use the full power of the Federal Government to deal with our current challenge of the CoronaVirus!

I want to thank all of our Great Government officials on the CoronaVirus Task Force who are working around the clock, in response to the CoronaVirus. Continue to check http://CDC.gov for updates, and follow all recommendations that are available....

....We have the greatest healthcare system, experts, scientists and doctors anywhere in the world. Together, we will PREVAIL!

America is the Greatest Country in the world. We have the best scientists, doctors, nurses and health care professionals. They are amazing people who do phenomenal things every day....

....Together we are putting into policy a plan to prevent, detect, treat and create a vaccine against CoronaVirus to save lives in America and the world. America will get it done!

Someone needs to tell the Democrats in Congress that CoronaVirus doesn’t care what party you are in. We need to protect ALL Americans!

dudalb 11th March 2020 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13016825)
Trump Tweets

I am fully prepared to use the full power of the Federal Government to deal with our current challenge of the CoronaVirus!

I want to thank all of our Great Government officials on the CoronaVirus Task Force who are working around the clock, in response to the CoronaVirus. Continue to check http://CDC.gov for updates, and follow all recommendations that are available....

....We have the greatest healthcare system, experts, scientists and doctors anywhere in the world. Together, we will PREVAIL!

America is the Greatest Country in the world. We have the best scientists, doctors, nurses and health care professionals. They are amazing people who do phenomenal things every day....

....Together we are putting into policy a plan to prevent, detect, treat and create a vaccine against CoronaVirus to save lives in America and the world. America will get it done!

Someone needs to tell the Democrats in Congress that CoronaVirus doesn’t care what party you are in. We need to protect ALL Americans!


Pathetic.Just Pathetic. Glittering Generalaties and no specific,s and trying to politicize it.

Armitage72 11th March 2020 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13016812)
Mike Pence
@Mike_Pence
I'm pleased to report that at President @realDonaldTrump's request, all the insurance companies at the @WhiteHouse today agreed to waive all copays on coronavirus testing and extend coverage for coronavirus treatment in all of their benefit plans.


I wonder if those insurance companies at the White House included the ones that regained the ability to sell garbage policies that don't actually cover anything significant once the ACA was gutted. We don't know which companies he's referring to.

dudalb 11th March 2020 01:33 PM

We are in deep doo doo, folks....

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...message-125902
Now Trump's refusal to admit he was wrong will kill people.

Captain_Swoop 11th March 2020 01:47 PM

Trump Tweets

I will be addressing the Nation this evening at 9:00 P.M. (Eastern) from the Oval Office.

dudalb 11th March 2020 02:10 PM

Thanks for the warning. Now I can turn of my BS meters and keep them from exploding.

angrysoba 11th March 2020 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13016888)
Trump Tweets

I will be addressing the Nation this evening at 9:00 P.M. (Eastern) from the Oval Office.

Sounds like a bit of a scoop for the small left-wing publication.

P.J. Denyer 11th March 2020 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13016919)
Thanks for the warning. Now I can turn of my BS meters and keep them from exploding.

Please do, the shrapnel damage could exceed the current Covid bodycount.

Captain_Swoop 11th March 2020 04:09 PM

White House won't decide on coronavirus 'emergency' status until Jared Kushner does own 'research'

Quote:

The coronavirus task force now led by Vice President Mike Pence will be holding off on its own recommendation on whether to declare a national emergency. The reason? They’re waiting on Trump son-in-law Jared Kushner.

According to a person "familiar" with the situation, the task force "will not give Trump its final verdict until Jared Kushner, the president’s senior adviser and husband to his daughter Ivanka, finishes his research and comes to a conclusion himself," Politico reports.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/202...s-own-research

SuburbanTurkey 11th March 2020 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13017032)
White House won't decide on coronavirus 'emergency' status until Jared Kushner does own 'research'



https://www.dailykos.com/stories/202...s-own-research

Oh man, does this mean peace in the Middle East is going to be delayed?

dudalb 11th March 2020 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13017041)
Oh man, does this mean peace in the Middle East is going to be delayed?

A friend of mine (who is Jewish) on Kushner:
"How can a Jew be so ***** stupid"?

Trebuchet 11th March 2020 05:38 PM

Quick! How many lies will Trump make in this speech! According to Politifact, or whoever.
5? 10? 20? 40? 100?

Darat 12th March 2020 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13017041)
Oh man, does this mean peace in the Middle East is going to be delayed?

That was sorted out weeks ago.

Captain_Swoop 12th March 2020 03:02 AM

Trump Retweeted

Ryan Fournier
@RyanAFournier
77% of Americans are confident in the Trump Administration’s ability to handle the coronavirus.

Just 58% of Americans were confident in the Obama Administration’s ability to handle the Ebola virus.

Funny how the media doesn’t report this fact!

P.J. Denyer 12th March 2020 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13017472)
Trump Retweeted

Ryan Fournier
@RyanAFournier
77% of Americans are confident in the Trump Administration’s ability to handle the coronavirus.

Just 58% of Americans were confident in the Obama Administration’s ability to handle the Ebola virus.

Funny how the media doesn’t report this fact!


In other news people say comforting lies make them feel better than scary facts. News at 11.

McHrozni 12th March 2020 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey (Post 13016300)
It is remarkable how well China has managed the outbreak. They were first and were dealing with the most amount of uncertainty of all the major outbreak countries, but seem to be handling it the best.

If you ignore they utterly botched the initial handling of the case that enabled the pandemic to occur anyway.

And believe their official numbers.

I have a great business opportunity if you do. It involves a bridge. PM me for details.

McHrozni

McHrozni 12th March 2020 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13017472)
Trump Retweeted

Ryan Fournier
@RyanAFournier
77% of Americans are confident in the Trump Administration’s ability to handle the coronavirus.

Just 58% of Americans were confident in the Obama Administration’s ability to handle the Ebola virus.

Funny how the media doesn’t report this fact!

Yeah, because handling a disease "that's worse than the seasonal flu" is totally the same as handling a disease with a mortality rate of ~95%.

The people are mistaken, of course. Handling of Ebola was far simpler than handling the Coronavirus, but Trump doesn't know that.

McHrozni

Captain_Swoop 12th March 2020 11:44 AM

Vice President Mike Pence said Thursday that there has been “irresponsible rhetoric” from people who have downplayed the seriousness of the U.S. coronavirus outbreak.

Quote:

In an interview on the “TODAY” show, Savannah Guthrie asked what message Pence sends to people who aren’t afraid of the coronavirus and think it’s just politics and hype, quoting from President Donald Trump who said on Monday that the “fake news media and their partner, the Democrat Party, is doing everything to inflame the coronavirus situation.”

“There's been some irresponsible rhetoric, but the American people should know President Trump has no higher priority than the health and safety and well being of the people of this country,” Pence said in response but it was not clear who he was referring to.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/whi...virus-n1156371

dudalb 12th March 2020 12:34 PM

Now I am convinced Pence is being set up as the fall guy.....

SuburbanTurkey 12th March 2020 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McHrozni (Post 13017487)
If you ignore they utterly botched the initial handling of the case that enabled the pandemic to occur anyway.

And believe their official numbers.

I have a great business opportunity if you do. It involves a bridge. PM me for details.

McHrozni

China was the first country to have the virus. They had no idea what was going on other than just lots of people were getting sick. All that considered, they're doing pretty well.

The US has had weeks of notice to get ready and still are doing terrible with no real sign of improvement.

Captain_Swoop 12th March 2020 07:18 PM

Trump Tweets

Sleepy Joe Biden was in charge of the H1N1 Swine Flu epidemic which killed thousands of people. The response was one of the worst on record. Our response is one of the best, with fast action of border closings & a 78% Approval Rating, the highest on record. His was lowest!

Trebuchet 12th March 2020 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13018104)
Now I am convinced Pence is being set up as the fall guy.....

Trump sets everyone up as the fall guy.

Captain_Swoop 13th March 2020 03:24 AM

Trump Retweeted

Ronna McDaniel
@GOPChairwoman
Joe Biden has no ground to stand on politicizing coronavirus or attacking @realDonaldTrump

Quote Tweet

Trump War Room - Text EMPOWER to 88022
@TrumpWarRoom
Joe Biden will again politicize coronavirus today. But his record on pandemics is one of incompetence.
During the 2009 swine flu outbreak, Biden made reckless comments unsupported by science & the experts.
The Obama Admin had to clean up his mess & apologize for his ineptitude.

Captain_Swoop 13th March 2020 03:29 AM

Trump Tweets

“The Obama White House had to immediately issue an apology for Joe Biden’s remarks, and any alarm that he might have caused, an alarm about a Swine Flu outbreak that took 6 months for President Obama to declare a National Emergency, and that killed 12,000 Americans.” @LouDobbs

Darat 13th March 2020 03:30 AM

He only has the one response to everything.

Captain_Swoop 13th March 2020 03:30 AM

Obama and Biden handled the H1N1 swine flu epidemic by declaring a national emergency when there were only 20 confirmed cases of it in the US.

Trump still has not declared a national emergency that would activate FEMA.

Captain_Swoop 13th March 2020 03:32 AM

Trump Tweets

For decades the @CDCgov looked at, and studied, its testing system, but did nothing about it. It would always be inadequate and slow for a large scale pandemic, but a pandemic would never happen, they hoped. President Obama made changes that only complicated things further.....

.... Their response to H1N1 Swine Flu was a full scale disaster, with thousands dying, and nothing meaningful done to fix the testing problem, until now. The changes have been made and testing will soon happen on a very large scale basis. All Red Tape has been cut, ready to go

P.J. Denyer 13th March 2020 03:35 AM

So long before Boris was PM or Covid-19 started turning lives upside down Boris Johnson revealed that one of his heros is Larry Vaughn the fictional town mayor in 'Jaws' who places business over lives leading to the unnecessary deaths of holiday makers.

https://www.politics.co.uk/news/2011...o-the-mayor-fr

Is it worth pointing out that the Mayor's decisions were made because he was in hock to shady, undisclosed, financial backers?

lomiller 13th March 2020 08:19 AM

I'm not sure what political discussion there is to be had outside the US. Most countries haven’t bungled their response as badly as the US. The absence of an officially approved test at this point in the game represents a level of incompetence that borders on absurd. Randomly shutting down borders, and saying on public TV that this includes trade, is also stupid.

China can be accused of being far too heavy handed, but we don’t get a lot of posts from China so I wouldn’t expect a lot of political discussion about this.

dann 13th March 2020 11:53 AM

Sorry, Denmark is closed! (Well, not quite, yet, but tomorrow at noon.)
We expect to open again after Easter!
Statsministeren: Danmarks grænser lukker fra klokken 12 i morgen (DR.dk, March 13, 2020)
The Primeminister: Denmark's borders will be closed at 12 noon tomorrow

P.J. Denyer 13th March 2020 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dann (Post 13019121)
Sorry, Denmark is closed! (Well, not quite, yet, but tomorrow at noon.)
We expect to open again after Easter!
Statsministeren: Danmarks grænser lukker fra klokken 12 i morgen (DR.dk, March 13, 2020)
The Primeminister: Denmark's borders will be closed at 12 noon tomorrow

Just so long as you keep the bacon coming. The bacon must flow.


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:23 PM.

Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2015-20, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.